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fanofjets
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American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:16 pm

An ABC News reporter was aboard an American Eagle flight that slid off the runway at ORD this morning. Fortunately, there no injuries among the passengers. She captured some moments on video.

https://twitter.com/AndreaABC11
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D L X
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:29 pm

Wasn't there a thread on this? I don't see it now.

Anyway, i saw a photo of the plane stopped in the snow, wing planted in the ground in a way that looks like it might be bent.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:31 pm

I swear there was a thread about this already, but I can't find it
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:32 pm

From the videos... That was a hard skid. The straight in wing into the dirt is a new one for me.

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Last edited by northstardc4m on Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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invertalon
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:35 pm

Is it me or does it look like the pilot tried to hit that high speed taxiway a bit fast, given the conditions? Looks like they were under control until they attempted that turn.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:46 pm

 
washingtonflyer
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:47 pm

So is this a write off?

:stirthepot:
 
dcaproducer
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:48 pm

D L X wrote:
Wasn't there a thread on this? I don't see it now.

Anyway, i saw a photo of the plane stopped in the snow, wing planted in the ground in a way that looks like it might be bent.


I thought the same thing. There was a thread on this and it's now gone.

Also being discussed on the Chicago thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411825&p=21783627&hilit=ord#p21783627
 
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TheZ
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:55 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
So is this a write off?

:stirthepot:


It's a 1998 model so quite possibly. Hard to tell how severe the structural damage is from the photos.
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Halophila
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:02 pm

TheZ wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
So is this a write off?

:stirthepot:


It's a 1998 model so quite possibly. Hard to tell how severe the structural damage is from the photos.


Bit of speed tape, should be fine.
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IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:03 pm

The Fast and the Furious: O'Hare Drift
 
D L X
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:03 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
D L X wrote:
Wasn't there a thread on this? I don't see it now.

Anyway, i saw a photo of the plane stopped in the snow, wing planted in the ground in a way that looks like it might be bent.


I thought the same thing. There was a thread on this and it's now gone.

Also being discussed on the Chicago thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411825&p=21783627&hilit=ord#p21783627

Ugh. If they removed this thread because it’s being discussed in the omnibus Chicago thread, I’m going to be disappointed. I ain’t got time to wade through posts about Asiana upgrading to a 747 when I’m looking for stuff about an actual, real-live accident.

#annoyedByCityThreads
 
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Spacepope
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:14 pm

TheZ wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
So is this a write off?

:stirthepot:


It's a 1998 model so quite possibly. Hard to tell how severe the structural damage is from the photos.


According to the FAA at last report (late March) she had 44,500 hours and 40,500 cycles, so add about 2000 of each for a current ballpark as to airframe use.
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airkas1
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:19 pm

The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.
 
txjim
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:29 pm

Have they called Joe Patroni to get it clear of the runway yet? [/obligatory Airport reference]
 
IADCA
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:35 pm

airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


Which, for a breaking news item on which the OP is unlikely to have any information beyond what can be put in a thread title, seems to be an appropriate thing to do.

I mean, seriously, something like that gets an entire thread pulled, when there was actual substantive discussion on a breaking incident immediately following? What should the OP have done, written "Here's a link," and then posted the link? If that's fine, why isn't posting the link alone?

Off my soapbox now, but that doesn't seem like the right outcome.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:39 pm

IADCA wrote:
airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


Which, for a breaking news item on which the OP is unlikely to have any information beyond what can be put in a thread title, seems to be an appropriate thing to do.

I mean, seriously, something like that gets an entire thread pulled, when there was actual substantive discussion on a breaking incident immediately following? What should the OP have done, written "Here's a link," and then posted the link? If that's fine, why isn't posting the link alone?

Off my soapbox now, but that doesn't seem like the right outcome.


IADCA: :checkmark: Agreed.
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trnswrld
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:40 pm

Here is a direct link to the full landing.

https://youtu.be/sfK8AtLjc4Y

You guys think that right main collapsed?
 
spacecadet
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:46 pm

invertalon wrote:
Is it me or does it look like the pilot tried to hit that high speed taxiway a bit fast, given the conditions? Looks like they were under control until they attempted that turn.


Yeah I don't think this is a simple skid off the runway; they seem to be exiting the runway and it's that turn that went awry. They seem to be taking the turn at a speed you'd normally see in dry conditions. Big question is probably why.
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MIflyer12
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:51 pm

IADCA wrote:
airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


Which, for a breaking news item on which the OP is unlikely to have any information beyond what can be put in a thread title, seems to be an appropriate thing to do.

I mean, seriously, something like that gets an entire thread pulled, when there was actual substantive discussion on a breaking incident immediately following? What should the OP have done, written "Here's a link," and then posted the link? If that's fine, why isn't posting the link alone?

Off my soapbox now, but that doesn't seem like the right outcome.


The legal issues are summed up as 'fair use extracts.' A link without commentary turns a.net into a link farm; it fails standards of Fair Use. 'Here's a link' doesn't qualify as transforming use as news reporting (provide a summary), criticism, or scholarship.

Soapbox stored away.
 
ltbewr
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:58 pm

Fortunately no one was hurt but the aircraft and maybe the pilots' pride,but I am concerned that the reporter on the flight was paying attention to making a video on their phone rather than paying full attention to the landing. If this had ended up being a more serious situation where an evacuation had to take place, being distracted could have been deadly.
 
D L X
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:59 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Fortunately no one was hurt but the aircraft and maybe the pilots' pride,but I am concerned that the reporter on the flight was paying attention to making a video on their phone rather than paying full attention to the landing. If this had ended up being a more serious situation where an evacuation had to take place, being distracted could have been deadly.

My understanding is that it was not the reporter’s video, but the reporter was quick to ask if anyone had a video since it’s her job to do so.
 
IADCA
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


Which, for a breaking news item on which the OP is unlikely to have any information beyond what can be put in a thread title, seems to be an appropriate thing to do.

I mean, seriously, something like that gets an entire thread pulled, when there was actual substantive discussion on a breaking incident immediately following? What should the OP have done, written "Here's a link," and then posted the link? If that's fine, why isn't posting the link alone?

Off my soapbox now, but that doesn't seem like the right outcome.


The legal issues are summed up as 'fair use extracts.' A link without commentary turns a.net into a link farm; it fails standards of Fair Use. 'Here's a link' doesn't qualify as transforming use as news reporting (provide a summary), criticism, or scholarship.

Soapbox stored away.


Posting only a link isn't copyright infringement, so fair use doesn't come into play. Fair use only matters if you actually post copyrighted content - which links and titles aren't.
 
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:05 pm

trnswrld wrote:
Here is a direct link to the full landing.

https://youtu.be/sfK8AtLjc4Y

You guys think that right main collapsed?

No. It sounded like the pilot used the thrust reversers, noticed he wasn't stopping, added more power and that's when the plane started to skid. Also listen for when he knew he was skidding and cut power completely. I think it was a case of one side getting the reverse power boost before the other which caused the tail to turn.
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trnswrld
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:07 pm

I could be wrong as I’m not in the tower, but as a controller elsewhere in Chicago, I’m not so sure this had to do with the pilot trying to turn off too fast. The reason I say this is because the airplane did not skid off anywhere near a high speed turn off. Yes there were other exits, but no high speeds. I just couldn’t imagine a pilot trying to turn off that kind of exit at that speed and in those conditions. I think the airplane literally just had no steering controllability. We had runways completely shut down because of NIL braking reports.

Here is where the aircraft ended up. Oh and I gotta say the lady at the end of the video is pretty damn funny “we’ll, looks like we landed” LOL

Image
 
D L X
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Could this be a situation where reverse thrust on a rear-engined T-tail hinders the operation of the rudder on icy runways, a la the DL mad dog at LGA?
Last edited by D L X on Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SWALUV
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:08 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
Here is a direct link to the full landing.

https://youtu.be/sfK8AtLjc4Y

You guys think that right main collapsed?

No. It sounded like the pilot used the thrust reversers, noticed he wasn't stopping, added more power and that's when the plane started to skid. Also listen for when he knew he was skidding and cut power completely. I think it was a case of one side getting the reverse power boost before the other which caused the tail to turn.



I'd agree with this. You can see the high-speed ahead but it'd be too far out for them to try and start making the turn off from where they started skidding. Looks like a case of bad luck sadly.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:12 pm

trnswrld wrote:
I could be wrong as I’m not in the tower, but as a controller elsewhere in Chicago, I’m not so sure this had to do with the pilot trying to turn off too fast. The reason I say this is because the airplane did not skid off anywhere near a high speed turn off. Yes there were other exits, but no high speeds. I just couldn’t imagine a pilot trying to turn off that kind of exit at that speed and in those conditions. I think the airplane literally just had no steering controllability. We had runways completely shut down because of NIL braking reports.

Here is where the aircraft ended up. Oh and I gotta say the lady at the end of the video is pretty damn funny “we’ll, looks like we landed” LOL

Image


I completely agree. They had plenty of runway to slow down and this skid took place very early after touchdown. They weren’t near a high speed turnoff.
My uneducated guess is contaminated runway and reverse thrusters ended up causing them to skid. Just a thought.
 
Coexstud
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:30 pm

trnswrld wrote:
I could be wrong as I’m not in the tower, but as a controller elsewhere in Chicago, I’m not so sure this had to do with the pilot trying to turn off too fast. The reason I say this is because the airplane did not skid off anywhere near a high speed turn off. Yes there were other exits, but no high speeds. I just couldn’t imagine a pilot trying to turn off that kind of exit at that speed and in those conditions. I think the airplane literally just had no steering controllability. We had runways completely shut down because of NIL braking reports.

Here is where the aircraft ended up. Oh and I gotta say the lady at the end of the video is pretty damn funny “we’ll, looks like we landed” LOL

Image

Maybe funny looking nothing funny about a rash and ja koffs filming when the should be bracing for landing ......
 
trnswrld
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:37 pm

Coexstud wrote:
Maybe funny looking nothing funny about a rash and ja koffs filming when the should be bracing for landing ......


Huh? I said the lady at the end with the landing comment was funny. Really don’t even know what you’re taking about anyway......
 
trnswrld
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:39 pm

D L X wrote:
Could this be a situation where reverse thrust on a rear-engined T-tail hinders the operation of the rudder on icy runways, a la the DL mad dog at LGA?


Absolutely!
 
NIKV69
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:42 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
Here is a direct link to the full landing.

https://youtu.be/sfK8AtLjc4Y

You guys think that right main collapsed?

No. It sounded like the pilot used the thrust reversers, noticed he wasn't stopping, added more power and that's when the plane started to skid. Also listen for when he knew he was skidding and cut power completely. I think it was a case of one side getting the reverse power boost before the other which caused the tail to turn.


Watching the full video it is weird that reverse thrust doesn't seem to slow them to normal taxi speed before he tried the turn.
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gabik001
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:47 pm

Still sitting near runway. Runway 10L/28R is closed due to incident and all inbound heavies landing on 28C now and a lot of outbound traffic is from 28C as of now. A lot of emergency vehicles around there, Went to Delta cargo (just south of a plcace where is resting) to take some pictures and saw excavator there.
Also was sitting in the car and taking some head on arrival pictures, saw QR725 slowing down and when was the time for turning right into the taxiway it just drifted to the left but pilots corrected if by a rudder. Looks like heavy NW wind pushed a/c on the icy rwy .
Last edited by gabik001 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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32andBelow
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


Which, for a breaking news item on which the OP is unlikely to have any information beyond what can be put in a thread title, seems to be an appropriate thing to do.

I mean, seriously, something like that gets an entire thread pulled, when there was actual substantive discussion on a breaking incident immediately following? What should the OP have done, written "Here's a link," and then posted the link? If that's fine, why isn't posting the link alone?

Off my soapbox now, but that doesn't seem like the right outcome.

With that logic reddit would be illegal which it’s clearly not.
The legal issues are summed up as 'fair use extracts.' A link without commentary turns a.net into a link farm; it fails standards of Fair Use. 'Here's a link' doesn't qualify as transforming use as news reporting (provide a summary), criticism, or scholarship.

Soapbox stored away.
 
Antarius
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:52 pm

Coexstud wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
I could be wrong as I’m not in the tower, but as a controller elsewhere in Chicago, I’m not so sure this had to do with the pilot trying to turn off too fast. The reason I say this is because the airplane did not skid off anywhere near a high speed turn off. Yes there were other exits, but no high speeds. I just couldn’t imagine a pilot trying to turn off that kind of exit at that speed and in those conditions. I think the airplane literally just had no steering controllability. We had runways completely shut down because of NIL braking reports.

Here is where the aircraft ended up. Oh and I gotta say the lady at the end of the video is pretty damn funny “we’ll, looks like we landed” LOL

Image

Maybe funny looking nothing funny about a rash and ja koffs filming when the should be bracing for landing ......


Unless this was a declared emergency landing, pray tell why anyone should be bracing for a regular approach and landing.

Next up - why did they not put on life jackets?
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
DeltaConnection
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:18 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Fortunately no one was hurt but the aircraft and maybe the pilots' pride,but I am concerned that the reporter on the flight was paying attention to making a video on their phone rather than paying full attention to the landing. If this had ended up being a more serious situation where an evacuation had to take place, being distracted could have been deadly.


You've never heard of/seen/taken part in filming a takeoff/landing video? Every-time I get a window seat I always film the takeoff/landing. Just happens in this case it happened to be an incident.
 
Karlsands
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:30 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
AAlaxfan wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
Here is a direct link to the full landing.

https://youtu.be/sfK8AtLjc4Y

You guys think that right main collapsed?

No. It sounded like the pilot used the thrust reversers, noticed he wasn't stopping, added more power and that's when the plane started to skid. Also listen for when he knew he was skidding and cut power completely. I think it was a case of one side getting the reverse power boost before the other which caused the tail to turn.


Watching the full video it is weird that reverse thrust doesn't seem to slow them to normal taxi speed before he tried the turn.

Well ice is ice, now much you can do about it once you’re on it
 
a320fan
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:49 pm

Watching the full video it looks like after landing the plane starts drifting to the right side of the runway, you can see the edge lights get closer. Then when they correct it by bringing it back to the centreline it starts to skid.
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wjcandee
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:39 pm

airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


So the effort I put into providing subsequent info means nothing and a mod insensitively just vaporizes the whole thread? There must have been 40 posts on there.

Would it have been better if he had added, "I think this is bad. Discuss...", or "This proves Boeing's acquisition of Embraer was stupid." or "Looks like a write off." or "A little speed tape and she'll be fine."? We all knew what to do, and it was turning into an interesting thread.
 
Antarius
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:44 pm

wjcandee wrote:
airkas1 wrote:
The original thread was probably removed because the OP literally only posted a link.


So the effort I put into providing subsequent info means nothing and a mod insensitively just vaporizes the whole thread? There must have been 40 posts on there.

Would it have been better if he had added, "I think this is bad. Discuss", or "This proves Boeing's acquisition of Embraer was stupid."? We all knew what to do, and it was turning into an interesting thread.


Just mention DTW. Clearly those threads never get deleted.
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gabik001
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:45 pm

a320fan wrote:
Watching the full video it looks like after landing the plane starts drifting to the right side of the runway, you can see the edge lights get closer. Then when they correct it by bringing it back to the centreline it starts to skid.

Wind was from NW ( 350 degree) at the time of accident but not heavy. Same happened to the QR725 when I was at the Hills but B77W is much heavier than ERJ145.
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Sean-SAN-
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:54 pm

I believe the ejet fadec does not allow asymmetrical rear thrust like the Delta MD80.
 
AABusDrvr
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:12 am

Sean-SAN- wrote:
I believe the ejet fadec does not allow asymmetrical rear thrust like the Delta MD80.



Asymmetric reverse thrust isn't the issue. With the tail mounted engines, in reverse, the exhaust gas can blank the airflow over the rudder. This renders the rudder ineffective. On the -80 it's a big deal, because the nose wheel/ground contact is very poor, until you are slowed way down, and all the weight is on the wheels.

I don't recall this ever being an issue on the ERJ in all the years I flew it.
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:21 am

DeltaConnection wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Fortunately no one was hurt but the aircraft and maybe the pilots' pride,but I am concerned that the reporter on the flight was paying attention to making a video on their phone rather than paying full attention to the landing. If this had ended up being a more serious situation where an evacuation had to take place, being distracted could have been deadly.


You've never heard of/seen/taken part in filming a takeoff/landing video? Every-time I get a window seat I always film the takeoff/landing. Just happens in this case it happened to be an incident.


Yeah man, any normal person can film and immediately follow instructions in case of evac, which wasn't the cae until the skidding.
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
dcs921
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:45 am

 
tp1040
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:28 am

Wonder if the previous landing planes MLG plowed paths that upset the E145. The two prior landings appear to be a 319 and a 175.
 
amcnd
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:34 am

The runway looked nasty. RCC of 2’s at some point during the day...
 
WNCrew
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:04 am

I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2180
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:43 am

tp1040 wrote:
Wonder if the previous landing planes MLG plowed paths that upset the E145. The two prior landings appear to be a 319 and a 175.


Hard to see how that causes the result that happened here. When you're stuck in snowy or icy ruts in a car, the problem is that you follow the ruts, not that you suddenly skid away. The previous planes didn't depart the runway, so it's hard to see how their wheels would have been the cause here. Plus, there's just not enough snow on the ground for that to be a realistic possibility for planes with wheels the size of an E145.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:01 am

WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


They should have popped up

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