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Curiousflyer
Posts: 583
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:06 am

Babyshark wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


They should have popped up


Interesting could it be they forgot to raise them? Or there was a defect there?
 
AABusDrvr
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:48 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:09 am

Babyshark wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


They should have popped up


They did. On the ERJ, the ground spoilers are only the inboard panel on each wing, the outer panels are only for inflight speed brakes. In the video, you can see them deployed, and then they auto-retract when wheel speed goes below 25 knots.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:15 am

The aircraft was sliding almost immediately after touch down, if you play the YouTube video at double speed you'll notice the aircraft drift slightly to the left before sliding way over to the right and eventually back across the runway and into the grass on the left.

I don't think it was anything to do with attempting an exit at a high speed taxiway and everything to do with a contaminated runway and lack of rudder control thanks to the reversers.

WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


They have inboard spoilers, not easy to spot in the video but you can just see it come up on touch down.
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:22 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:35 am

trnswrld wrote:
You guys think that right main collapsed?

Definitely. The transition from the runaway to grass is typically quite flat. This and considering the lateral force the gear experienced when hitting the grass, I think it’s a safe bet that the right MLG collapsed.
 
andrej
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:31 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:01 am

WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?

They did. On now deleted post, somebody was kind enough to post screenshots, proving that they are deployed (on the rwy with reverse thrust) and stored (once skided of the rwy).

Look very close to the fluselage. They wre very tiny and are not located on entire wing.

Cheers,
Andrej
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am

I suppose if someone was to be caught out by that contaminated runway, better a RJ than a heavy. Easier to unload and move the RJ than something like a 777.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
rrlopes
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:39 am

Curiousflyer wrote:
Interesting could it be they forgot to raise them? Or there was a defect there?
^

AFAIR the spoilers in the ERJ are automatic anyways. There's no way for a pilot to forget about them.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5185
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:55 pm

I looked at most of the local Chicago TV stations coverage on their websites. It's amazing how badly people understand commercial aviation.

First, several passengers were fuming that it was going to be several hours, before their checked baggage would be available.

No kidding. Do they not understand that the aircraft is the site of an incident, and that it's secured until the FAA and/or NTSB have conducted an investigation? I assume that investigators would look to see how the baggage, mail, and freight were loaded into the hold, and probably the baggage was weighed, to make sure that it matched Envoy's weight and balance calculations.

Another passenger was made that American and the FAA would allow a plane to land in an unsafe condition, considering that the runway was icey, and the wind was blowing strong across the runway.

First, if the runway was not properly cleared of ice and/or snow, the fault lies with the airport operator, the City of Chicago Department of Aviation.

Second, if pilots are reporting upon arrival that braking is acceptable, then the runway will be open for arrivals. Remember that the plane landed on 10R. Normally, arrivals land on 10C, which is shorter. So, the FAA had already shifted arrivals to a longer runway.

Third, it would be the responsibility of the pilots to determine if the wind direction and speed were beyond the limits of the aircraft. I seem to recall that in the morning, the wind was not gusting, and it was blowing from the northeast. So, it's safe to assume that wind speed and direction were within the limits for the Embear 145.

The passengers never walked on the runway, so they would have no way of knowing how slick it was, or if there was a build up of snow and ice.

The fact that the plane had made a go-around does not indicate that the runway was unsafe. Perhaps the plane ahead of the Embrear on the first attempt was slow to exit. Perhaps when the Embrear dropped below the ceiling, he was not lined up and was too low to correct his approach.

The other one that got me irritated was the passenger who thought the plane was going to flip over. Really?! I watched the video. There was no way the plane was going nose over tail or wingtip over wingtip.
 
slcguy
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:12 pm

WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


I was wondering the same thing, appears the inboard spoilers only partially deployed and outboard not at all.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:17 pm

slcguy wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


I was wondering the same thing, appears the inboard spoilers only partially deployed and outboard not at all.


Read the numerous posts prior to yours; the ERJ only has inboard spoilers.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2011
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:58 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
The aircraft was sliding almost immediately after touch down, if you play the YouTube video at double speed you'll notice the aircraft drift slightly to the left before sliding way over to the right and eventually back across the runway and into the grass on the left.

I don't think it was anything to do with attempting an exit at a high speed taxiway and everything to do with a contaminated runway and lack of rudder control thanks to the reversers.

WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


They have inboard spoilers, not easy to spot in the video but you can just see it come up on touch down.


The aircraft ended up in the grass just off the west side of 32R near taxiway N1 which is not a high speed exit taxiway.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:06 am

ckfred wrote:
I looked at most of the local Chicago TV stations coverage on their websites. It's amazing how badly people understand commercial aviation.

First, several passengers were fuming that it was going to be several hours, before their checked baggage would be available.

No kidding. Do they not understand that the aircraft is the site of an incident, and that it's secured until the FAA and/or NTSB have conducted an investigation? I assume that investigators would look to see how the baggage, mail, and freight were loaded into the hold, and probably the baggage was weighed, to make sure that it matched Envoy's weight and balance calculations.

Another passenger was made that American and the FAA would allow a plane to land in an unsafe condition, considering that the runway was icey, and the wind was blowing strong across the runway.

First, if the runway was not properly cleared of ice and/or snow, the fault lies with the airport operator, the City of Chicago Department of Aviation.

Second, if pilots are reporting upon arrival that braking is acceptable, then the runway will be open for arrivals. Remember that the plane landed on 10R. Normally, arrivals land on 10C, which is shorter. So, the FAA had already shifted arrivals to a longer runway.

Third, it would be the responsibility of the pilots to determine if the wind direction and speed were beyond the limits of the aircraft. I seem to recall that in the morning, the wind was not gusting, and it was blowing from the northeast. So, it's safe to assume that wind speed and direction were within the limits for the Embear 145.

The passengers never walked on the runway, so they would have no way of knowing how slick it was, or if there was a build up of snow and ice.

The fact that the plane had made a go-around does not indicate that the runway was unsafe. Perhaps the plane ahead of the Embrear on the first attempt was slow to exit. Perhaps when the Embrear dropped below the ceiling, he was not lined up and was too low to correct his approach.

The other one that got me irritated was the passenger who thought the plane was going to flip over. Really?! I watched the video. There was no way the plane was going nose over tail or wingtip over wingtip.


I suspect many of those passengers also have hobbies that you know absolutely nothing about. Perhaps those include spelling, such as the name of certain regional jet manufacturer from Brazil, which you didn't manage in three attempts (with two different incorrect spellings!) despite ranting about how little people know about aviation.
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5444
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:07 am

freakyrat wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
The aircraft was sliding almost immediately after touch down, if you play the YouTube video at double speed you'll notice the aircraft drift slightly to the left before sliding way over to the right and eventually back across the runway and into the grass on the left.

I don't think it was anything to do with attempting an exit at a high speed taxiway and everything to do with a contaminated runway and lack of rudder control thanks to the reversers.

WNCrew wrote:
I was expecting the spoilers to extend but, do ERJs not have them?


They have inboard spoilers, not easy to spot in the video but you can just see it come up on touch down.


The aircraft ended up in the grass just off the west side of 32R near taxiway N1 which is not a high speed exit taxiway.


Exactly my point. :checkmark:
 
acechip
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:22 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:21 am

tp1040 wrote:
Wonder if the previous landing planes MLG plowed paths that upset the E145. The two prior landings appear to be a 319 and a 175.

That would not have made much of a difference. A heavy like a A380/747 would have blown some of the slush away, and probably prevented the skidding for the next arrival I guess.
 
gabik001
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:20 am

acechip wrote:
tp1040 wrote:
Wonder if the previous landing planes MLG plowed paths that upset the E145. The two prior landings appear to be a 319 and a 175.

That would not have made much of a difference. A heavy like a A380/747 would have blown some of the slush away, and probably prevented the skidding for the next arrival I guess.

There were departures from 10L as well so taking off a/c could blow a lot of snow. Morning is quite busy for quad engines cargo planes take offs.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
tp1040
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:30 pm

Re: American Eagle ERJ 145 Slides Off Icy Runway

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:34 am

There was a lot of snow and ice on the runway, some wind, reduced visibility.

My thought was the the LG on the previous aircraft are a bit wider than the 145. At touch own speed, some piles of snow and ice could upset the plane. Especially the nose gear. Wouldn't take much to throw it slightly off and begin the lack of control. Happens on a contaminated runway.

Just a thought, not an expert.

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