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Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:38 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/norwegian ... ome-paris/

ORD-CDG 5x weekly
ORD-FCO 4x weekly
DEN-FCO 3x weekly.

All three routes run by the 787-9

Norwegian already serves CDG/LGW from DEN and BCN/LGW from ORD.

Nice to see this expansion with the recent JFK-MAD cut and the CDG-AUS addition.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1773
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:11 pm

Interesting to see so much at Rome. I wonder if they are getting a lot of self-connections through ORD and DEN. These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.
 
UALFAson
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:13 pm

I thought ORD (T5) was maxed out on gate space during the European bank. Or is that just UA's terminal?
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
airbazar
Posts: 10117
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:41 pm

UALFAson wrote:
I thought ORD (T5) was maxed out on gate space during the European bank. Or is that just UA's terminal?

My guess is they won't necessarily be operating during the typical European bank since they are mostly a O&D operation.
The typical European bank exists primarily for airlines that need to offer connections on both sides of the route.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:41 pm

With Frontier and Southwest, folks can get to Denver on the cheap from just about anywhere and then fly cheap to Europe on DY. They can stay at the airport or have a brief stay over in DEN.
 
hohd
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:42 pm

May be Norwegian should look at IAH -FCO and/or IAH-ZRH routes. If DEN is viable for FCO, I am sure IAH is too.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:47 pm

hohd wrote:
May be Norwegian should look at IAH -FCO and/or IAH-ZRH routes. If DEN is viable for FCO, I am sure IAH is too.


Norwegian doesn’t even fly to Zurich, IAH-FCO or even BCN/MAD-IAH seems plausible.
 
drdisque
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:50 pm

UALFAson wrote:
I thought ORD (T5) was maxed out on gate space during the European bank. Or is that just UA's terminal?


Yes, the LGW flight leaves at 9 PM and is the last or nearly the last European flight to leave ORD. Only a handful of VFR Mexico flights leave T5 after that and the terminal has very few RONs (and some of the F9 RONs arrive very late after 2300). I imagine that the CDG/FCO flight will leave similarly late.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:00 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.

Google Flights.

It's definitely a risk, but then if you're saving hundreds of dollars it might be worth it.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 191
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:11 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.

Google Flights.

It's definitely a risk, but then if you're saving hundreds of dollars it might be worth it.


It is! I flew DY to CDG from DEN this fall. Fare was 299 one way and 229 on the way back (These fares included a bag and meals). Had to buy 89 roundtrip on Air France to Florence on separate ticket with 6 hr. connection. It would have been my fault if I missed the Air France flight, but everything worked out and I was ontime and I purchased travel insurance for 25 dollars which would have covered up to 300 if I had to buy a new airfare due to a missed flight.

The cheapest roundtrip from DEN to Florence was 1500 roundtrip. I only paid 706 for everything roundtrip. The other nice option is I can pay for a cheap one way on DY and then use miles to get back to U.S. since one way fares are a rip off unless you fly Norwegian. DY has made Europe very accessible from secondary U.S. markets and the food was better on Norwegian than United!


Great to see DY working in DEN! The airport at DEN is a mess though a comfortable airport especially with their huge construction mess there.
 
AF022
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:27 pm

I just saw on airlineroute that DY is ending MAD-JFK. I guess yields aren't good enough here?
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1773
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.


I think pretty much all of the ones I use do it - Kayak and Google to give two examples. You have to be careful because, for example, you might get two stops in a country which means you need a visa or you might have to buy two separate tickets. These sites don't actually sell you the ticket so you have to go to the airline website to buy it and you can choose to add an overnight stop or extra time if you want.

LON-ORD on TAP via Lisbon (one ticket ··296 GBP)
LON-ORD on Norweigan/Fronteir via Miami (separate tickets, 217 GBP)

LON-DSM 596GBP via LIS and ORD TAP/United (one ticket)
LON-MIA-DSM 160+100=260GBP on Norweigan/Delta (separate tickets)
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:34 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.


Kayak does. Though it explicitly says it's two different reservations.
 
mcdu
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:56 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
With Frontier and Southwest, folks can get to Denver on the cheap from just about anywhere and then fly cheap to Europe on DY. They can stay at the airport or have a brief stay over in DEN.


And when their WN or F9 flight is delayed and they miss the DY flight they can eat their tickets and hotel reservations in Europe. Better give yourself a day at DEN to assure a connect. That would cost you a hotel in Denver.
 
ytib
Posts: 556
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:24 pm

mcdu wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
With Frontier and Southwest, folks can get to Denver on the cheap from just about anywhere and then fly cheap to Europe on DY. They can stay at the airport or have a brief stay over in DEN.


And when their WN or F9 flight is delayed and they miss the DY flight they can eat their tickets and hotel reservations in Europe. Better give yourself a day at DEN to assure a connect. That would cost you a hotel in Denver.


Did that on a one-way flight DEN-SIN. The UA flight LAX-SIN was $489, however from DEN it was over $1500. Bought a ticket on WN knowing I was taking a risk and allowed for a 4 hour connection as well as additional flight options. Just to be safe, I booked a Business Select ticket which still put me well under what UA was going to charge and gave me flexibility if needed. What do you do for 4 hours at LAX? Walk over to In N' Out and watch the planes land prior to an 18 hour flight.

Yes it is risky, but better to play it safe and allow a night or cushion time. The same can be said for those who fly the same day a cruise leaves not thinking about the potential of wx or mx.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:35 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.


I think pretty much all of the ones I use do it - Kayak and Google to give two examples. You have to be careful because, for example, you might get two stops in a country which means you need a visa or you might have to buy two separate tickets. These sites don't actually sell you the ticket so you have to go to the airline website to buy it and you can choose to add an overnight stop or extra time if you want.

LON-ORD on TAP via Lisbon (one ticket ··296 GBP)
LON-ORD on Norweigan/Fronteir via Miami (separate tickets, 217 GBP)

LON-DSM 596GBP via LIS and ORD TAP/United (one ticket)
LON-MIA-DSM 160+100=260GBP on Norweigan/Delta (separate tickets)


Those aren't examples of separate (connecting) tickets between origin and destination. They are just separate one-way tickets.

Other people have provided examples where they created their own separate ticket itineraries (see posts 11 and 16). That I know - and have done. Of Orbitz, Kayak, etc. creating such an itin I am skeptical - because it will go wrong for a non-trivial fraction of people unless they build in a large buffer - then they've shown a low value of their time.
 
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WROORD
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:42 am

One would think that MXP would make more sense then FCO, but DY is trying what they can as their finances are not that great. On another front after years of playing with Spanish and British markets they are expanding in OSL adding shot haul flights to: DUS, KUN, POZ and WRO. as well asn some flights at ARN.
 
iflyalexair
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:54 am

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:58 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
These days when you search for fares it doesn't seem to matter whether you need to buy two separate tickets with different airlines, the fare searches will show you the cheapest route.


What search engines are showing two separate tickets? Care to post an itinerary? It's consumer disaster waiting to happen. Interline benefits (baggage thru-check, rebooking when arriving late) have value.


Kiwi.com
 
SkyVoice
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:35 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
Great to see DY working in DEN! The airport at DEN is a mess though a comfortable airport especially with their huge construction mess there.


I had a very quick in-Saturday-and-out-Sunday trip through DEN three days ago. I don't know that I'd call DEN ("DIA") a mess, but rather a monstrosity! Anyway, I passed through Concourse A, flying on Frontier. I saw Icelandair, Lufthansa, Volaris and WestJet in Concourse A, but I did not see Norwegian. Which concourse does DY use at DEN?
"Facing a crisis does not not build one's character, it reveals it."

"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

- Robert H. Schuller
 
CALMSP
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:46 am

SkyVoice wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Great to see DY working in DEN! The airport at DEN is a mess though a comfortable airport especially with their huge construction mess there.


I had a very quick in-Saturday-and-out-Sunday trip through DEN three days ago. I don't know that I'd call DEN ("DIA") a mess, but rather a monstrosity! Anyway, I passed through Concourse A, flying on Frontier. I saw Icelandair, Lufthansa, Volaris and WestJet in Concourse A, but I did not see Norwegian. Which concourse does DY use at DEN?


They use A, but currently not flying to DEN during the winter.
 
SkyVoice
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:58 am

CALMSP, Thank you very much! I do remember seeing some unused ticket counter space there, so that's probably where DY will hang their shingle out next Spring . . . if they're still around, that is!
"Facing a crisis does not not build one's character, it reveals it."

"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

- Robert H. Schuller
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:23 am

drdisque wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
I thought ORD (T5) was maxed out on gate space during the European bank. Or is that just UA's terminal?


Yes, the LGW flight leaves at 9 PM and is the last or nearly the last European flight to leave ORD. Only a handful of VFR Mexico flights leave T5 after that and the terminal has very few RONs (and some of the F9 RONs arrive very late after 2300). I imagine that the CDG/FCO flight will leave similarly late.


It will be afternoon and early evening departures from ORD

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... er-in-s20/

Paris CDG – Chicago O’Hare eff 01MAY20 5 weekly (4 weekly from 24SEP20)
DY7153 CDG1215 – 1405ORD 789 x37
DY7154 ORD1605 – 0700+1CDG 789 x37

Service operates Day x237 from 24SEP20.

Rome – Chicago O’Hare eff 03JUN20 4 weekly (3 weekly from 20SEP20)
DY7157 FCO1320 – 1630ORD 789 135
DY7157 FCO1545 – 1855ORD 789 7

DY7158 ORD1830 – 1030+1FCO 789 135
DY7158 ORD2055 – 1255+1FCO 789 7
 
drdisque
Posts: 1274
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:14 pm

So the CDG turn is just before the main European push at T5 and FCO is at the tail end of it on 135 and after it on 7. Those are honestly pretty good timings that they got. I imagine that the 1630 arriving FCO flight may end up waiting for a gate fairly regularly.
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:20 pm

Is there any chance DI/DY considers adding routs from ATH to BOS, ATH-ORD or ATH-LAX?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:14 pm

FCO build up is interesting

Many of us on here have been looking at who would replace Alitalia...None of us looked at Norwegian

Could this be a stealth way of starting to build up in case AZ goes under or shrinks long haul further?

Clearly the a.net assumptions about Rome as low yield are wrong. There are several airlines beefing up US-Rome
 
tphuang
Posts: 5072
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:05 pm

I find prices on JFK-FCO always to be more expensive than JFK-MXP. Who cares there is less business demand when the Y fares are 50% higher?
 
jayunited
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:28 pm

ORD-CDG doesn’t really concern me I think AF, AA and UA will do just fine and I don’t think we will see a dramatic drop in ticket prices especially during the summer.

What is interesting is ORD-FCO it isn’t a daily flight which is a mistake in my opinion because ticket prices to FCO are crazy expensive but more importantly is this does DY intend to serve this market year around? I think AA already announced or intends to announce an extension to their ORD-FCO extending the season into December (I think I read that in another AA thread). UA announced some seasonal routes would start earlier next year I’m not sure if ORD-FCO was on that list but so far I haven’t heard of any plans to extend the season beyond the late October end date. However if DY is flying this route year around I think it will force both AA and UA to respond and at the very least extend their seasons. I remember DY’s entrance into the EWR market that forced UA to make some seasonal routes year around.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
I find prices on JFK-FCO always to be more expensive than JFK-MXP. Who cares there is less business demand when the Y fares are 50% higher?


Your cheapest coach fare isn't necessarily reflective of average space- and weight-weighted fares. Total revenue (including whatever freight revenues) vs. all-in costs determines what gets flown in an Open Skies market.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Norwegian Adds FCO/CDG-ORD And FCO-DEN

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:49 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
FCO build up is interesting

Many of us on here have been looking at who would replace Alitalia...None of us looked at Norwegian

Could this be a stealth way of starting to build up in case AZ goes under or shrinks long haul further?

Clearly the a.net assumptions about Rome as low yield are wrong. There are several airlines beefing up US-Rome


Eh. Rome's a seasonal market with excellent potential for volume stimulation with low fares. Point to the carriers adding daily, year-round flights... anybody?

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