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simairlinenet
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Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:19 pm

United seems to be leading U.S. carriers (and maybe the world?) on winglet installations:
-All 737s have Split Scimitar winglets
-All the sCO 757s have Scimitar winglets (and all the sUA have blended winglets)
-All the 767-300ERs have blended winglets

Have other airlines adopted as much as United? I can’t think of other airlines that have invested as much:
-737s: other airlines have Split Scimitars, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
-757s: have any other airlines done Scimitar winglets?
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:28 pm

Icelandair have Scimitar's on all if not most of their 752's.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Winglets have costs associated with them. Have to get the most bang for the buck to make up for the small improvement per cycle on fuel economy. It's a long term investment with a high upfront cost and when fuel costs are cheap there isn't much incentive to do that.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:38 pm

I wonder why they haven't added sharklets to the A320s? Delta doesn't seem to feel any urgency to refurb for the most part, although I believe all their 763s have blended winglets.
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:39 pm

United also has a longer average stage length so they're able to tap into more of the savings since their planes spend more duty time in cruise.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:46 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Winglets have costs associated with them. Have to get the most bang for the buck to make up for the small improvement per cycle on fuel economy. It's a long term investment with a high upfront cost and when fuel costs are cheap there isn't much incentive to do that.


IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.
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Spacepope
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:49 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
I wonder why they haven't added sharklets to the A320s? Delta doesn't seem to feel any urgency to refurb for the most part, although I believe all their 763s have blended winglets.


You can only retrofit sharklets on A32x aircraft above LN 1200. UA has 28 A319 and 58 A320 older than that, which is not a small portion of the fleet.
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gatibosgru
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:06 pm

Spacepope wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I wonder why they haven't added sharklets to the A320s? Delta doesn't seem to feel any urgency to refurb for the most part, although I believe all their 763s have blended winglets.


You can only retrofit sharklets on A32x aircraft above LN 1200. UA has 28 A319 and 58 A320 older than that, which is not a small portion of the fleet.


Did not know that! Thanks for the info, would you happen to know what makes retrofitting pre LN 1200 not possible?
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Spacepope
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:11 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I wonder why they haven't added sharklets to the A320s? Delta doesn't seem to feel any urgency to refurb for the most part, although I believe all their 763s have blended winglets.


You can only retrofit sharklets on A32x aircraft above LN 1200. UA has 28 A319 and 58 A320 older than that, which is not a small portion of the fleet.


Did not know that! Thanks for the info, would you happen to know what makes retrofitting pre LN 1200 not possible?


IIRC it's got to do with Airbus making constant incremental changes to their designs tather than new generations. The wing internal structure was changed past LN 1200 and while sharklets conceivably *could* be added (since they were tested on one of the A320 prototypes which was originally built as a -100) there is a ton of expensive wing work that would need to be done and certified and nobody is gonna spring for that. It's kinda similar to why you dont see 737-400s with winglets even though the -500 and -300 can have them.
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northstardc4m
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:21 pm

Spacepope wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

You can only retrofit sharklets on A32x aircraft above LN 1200. UA has 28 A319 and 58 A320 older than that, which is not a small portion of the fleet.


Did not know that! Thanks for the info, would you happen to know what makes retrofitting pre LN 1200 not possible?


IIRC it's got to do with Airbus making constant incremental changes to their designs tather than new generations. The wing internal structure was changed past LN 1200 and while sharklets conceivably *could* be added (since they were tested on one of the A320 prototypes which was originally built as a -100) there is a ton of expensive wing work that would need to be done and certified and nobody is gonna spring for that. It's kinda similar to why you dont see 737-400s with winglets even though the -500 and -300 can have them.


I thought the 737-400 didn't get winglets only because no one wanted to step up to pay the STC costs? Same as the -600?
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737max8
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:32 pm

WN is almost done with the entire 207 airplane 737-800 fleet.

However doing 500+ 737-700 at this point is not worth it, but a large number are getting them.
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trees
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:38 pm

simairlinenet wrote:
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


AA and DL are fleet-wide blended winglets
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:33 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

Did not know that! Thanks for the info, would you happen to know what makes retrofitting pre LN 1200 not possible?


IIRC it's got to do with Airbus making constant incremental changes to their designs tather than new generations. The wing internal structure was changed past LN 1200 and while sharklets conceivably *could* be added (since they were tested on one of the A320 prototypes which was originally built as a -100) there is a ton of expensive wing work that would need to be done and certified and nobody is gonna spring for that. It's kinda similar to why you dont see 737-400s with winglets even though the -500 and -300 can have them.


I thought the 737-400 didn't get winglets only because no one wanted to step up to pay the STC costs? Same as the -600?


Sorry that's what I was getting at. The return on the costs of the STC and retrofit were no bueno. Same with sub-1200 A320s apparently, it's really just not financially viable to save a bit of fuel on these remaining early birds.
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N649DL
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:41 pm

trees wrote:
simairlinenet wrote:
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


AA and DL are fleet-wide blended winglets


DL actually has a few retrofitted 757s that don't have them. I was on N670DN on ATL-MCO last month and didn't have them and yet had a brand new interior.
 
United1
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:49 pm

simairlinenet wrote:
United seems to be leading U.S. carriers (and maybe the world?) on winglet installations:
-All 737s have Split Scimitar winglets
-All the sCO 757s have Scimitar winglets (and all the sUA have blended winglets)
-All the 767-300ERs have blended winglets

Have other airlines adopted as much as United? I can’t think of other airlines that have invested as much:
-737s: other airlines have Split Scimitars, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
-757s: have any other airlines done Scimitar winglets?
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


As someone else mentioned while winglets are not cheap UA gets a bigger bang for its buck as its stage length is quite a bit longer than AA, DL or WN. Just to be pedantic the 737-900s (non-ERs) have blended winglets vs split Scimitars. For only 12 aircraft I am sure the additional STC was prohibitively expensive.
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BWIAirport
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:56 pm

All AS 737s minus a few ancient 739 non-ERs have split scimitars and have had them since like 2015
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:56 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Winglets have costs associated with them. Have to get the most bang for the buck to make up for the small improvement per cycle on fuel economy. It's a long term investment with a high upfront cost and when fuel costs are cheap there isn't much incentive to do that.


IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.


Why in the world would FexEx remove them? Wasted fuel and greenhouse gas emissions.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:58 pm

On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:03 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
All AS 737s minus a few ancient 739 non-ERs have split scimitars and have had them since like 2015


Are you sure about that.

At LAS I saw an AS 787 land (looked like an -800) in the older livery with no winglets at all and the cockpit eyebrows still there.

Also, Sun Country has some raw 73G (no winglets) and some 738s with no winglets at all either. Let alone splits
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:09 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

Famously (or not) the KC-46A tanker based on 767 has no winglets for similar reasons, they just did not earn their way on to the airplane.

Even though these aircraft will presumably be flying for 50+ years like KC-135, they mainly tend to fly short hops and no where near as many hours as commercial airliners so they aren't worth the expense and the weight they add to the airplane.
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:18 pm

Veigar wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
All AS 737s minus a few ancient 739 non-ERs have split scimitars and have had them since like 2015


Are you sure about that.

At LAS I saw an AS 787 land (looked like an -800) in the older livery with no winglets at all and the cockpit eyebrows still there.

Also, Sun Country has some raw 73G (no winglets) and some 738s with no winglets at all either. Let alone splits


The AS 737-900s(nonER) have the eyebrow windows and no winglets.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:58 pm

United1 wrote:
simairlinenet wrote:
United seems to be leading U.S. carriers (and maybe the world?) on winglet installations:
-All 737s have Split Scimitar winglets
-All the sCO 757s have Scimitar winglets (and all the sUA have blended winglets)
-All the 767-300ERs have blended winglets

Have other airlines adopted as much as United? I can’t think of other airlines that have invested as much:
-737s: other airlines have Split Scimitars, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
-757s: have any other airlines done Scimitar winglets?
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


As someone else mentioned while winglets are not cheap UA gets a bigger bang for its buck as its stage length is quite a bit longer than AA, DL or WN. Just to be pedantic the 737-900s (non-ERs) have blended winglets vs split Scimitars. For only 12 aircraft I am sure the additional STC was prohibitively expensive.


The non ER 900s have split scimitars.

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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:02 pm

joeljack wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Winglets have costs associated with them. Have to get the most bang for the buck to make up for the small improvement per cycle on fuel economy. It's a long term investment with a high upfront cost and when fuel costs are cheap there isn't much incentive to do that.


IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.


Why in the world would FexEx remove them? Wasted fuel and greenhouse gas emissions.


Got any proof for that or just emotaposting? I don’t believe the winglet airplanes fit within the confines of the ramp parking spaces. Also, on a shorter stage length the extra weight of the winglet doesn’t save any gas and may actually cost more gas to carry.
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:23 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
I wonder why they haven't added sharklets to the A320s? Delta doesn't seem to feel any urgency to refurb for the most part, although I believe all their 763s have blended winglets.


Jet Blue has added sharklets. But they are limited by production line number for easy upgrade. Early wings need to be strengthened. Later wings designed for them to be added.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:38 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.

joeljack wrote:
Why in the world would FexEx remove them? Wasted fuel and greenhouse gas emissions.


FedEx does not add winglets to their new-build 767-300Fs (the ones they acquired from LAN had/have them) and it has been said this is due to both ramp space and the average stage-lengths not making it worthwhile. This could be the case with their 757s, as well.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:40 pm

joeljack wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Winglets have costs associated with them. Have to get the most bang for the buck to make up for the small improvement per cycle on fuel economy. It's a long term investment with a high upfront cost and when fuel costs are cheap there isn't much incentive to do that.


IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.


Why in the world would FexEx remove them? Wasted fuel and greenhouse gas emissions.


To save weight? Removing them makes the plane about 250 kg lighter.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:45 pm

DualQual wrote:
United1 wrote:
simairlinenet wrote:
United seems to be leading U.S. carriers (and maybe the world?) on winglet installations:
-All 737s have Split Scimitar winglets
-All the sCO 757s have Scimitar winglets (and all the sUA have blended winglets)
-All the 767-300ERs have blended winglets

Have other airlines adopted as much as United? I can’t think of other airlines that have invested as much:
-737s: other airlines have Split Scimitars, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
-757s: have any other airlines done Scimitar winglets?
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


As someone else mentioned while winglets are not cheap UA gets a bigger bang for its buck as its stage length is quite a bit longer than AA, DL or WN. Just to be pedantic the 737-900s (non-ERs) have blended winglets vs split Scimitars. For only 12 aircraft I am sure the additional STC was prohibitively expensive.


The non ER 900s have split scimitars.



When the heck did that happen?
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:53 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I wonder why they haven't added sharklets to the A320s? Delta doesn't seem to feel any urgency to refurb for the most part, although I believe all their 763s have blended winglets.


You can only retrofit sharklets on A32x aircraft above LN 1200. UA has 28 A319 and 58 A320 older than that, which is not a small portion of the fleet.


Did not know that! Thanks for the info, would you happen to know what makes retrofitting pre LN 1200 not possible?


The wings were strengthend from LN1200. Would cost to much in structure weight to upgrade them.
 
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seahawks7757
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:04 am

Veigar wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
All AS 737s minus a few ancient 739 non-ERs have split scimitars and have had them since like 2015


Are you sure about that.

At LAS I saw an AS 787 land (looked like an -800) in the older livery with no winglets at all and the cockpit eyebrows still there.

Also, Sun Country has some raw 73G (no winglets) and some 738s with no winglets at all either. Let alone splits


There are only three, they were the test aircraft for the 737-900 program. N302AS, N303AS and N305AS. The rest have splits fleet wide.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:04 am

DualQual wrote:
joeljack wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:

IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.


Why in the world would FexEx remove them? Wasted fuel and greenhouse gas emissions.


Got any proof for that or just emotaposting? I don’t believe the winglet airplanes fit within the confines of the ramp parking spaces. Also, on a shorter stage length the extra weight of the winglet doesn’t save any gas and may actually cost more gas to carry.



Fedex fly short routes, so the extra weight of the winglets would actually cost them more.
 
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seahawks7757
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:07 am

Vctony wrote:
Veigar wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
All AS 737s minus a few ancient 739 non-ERs have split scimitars and have had them since like 2015


Are you sure about that.

At LAS I saw an AS 787 land (looked like an -800) in the older livery with no winglets at all and the cockpit eyebrows still there.

Also, Sun Country has some raw 73G (no winglets) and some 738s with no winglets at all either. Let alone splits


The AS 737-900s(nonER) have the eyebrow windows and no winglets.


This is incorrect. There are only three with out winglets, they were the test aircraft for the 737-900 program. N302AS, N303AS and N305AS. The rest of the 900’s have splits. The non ER are N3**AS. The ER’s are N4**AS and N2**AK. The AK ones are NOT etops equipped along with the 900’s.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:11 am

Revelation wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

Famously (or not) the KC-46A tanker based on 767 has no winglets for similar reasons, they just did not earn their way on to the airplane.

Even though these aircraft will presumably be flying for 50+ years like KC-135, they mainly tend to fly short hops and no where near as many hours as commercial airliners so they aren't worth the expense and the weight they add to the airplane.


The KC46A has modified wingtips for its specific use.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:17 am

The majority of WestJets 800s have scimitar winglets, a couple 800s and all 700s have blended winglets and no winglets on the 600 of course. WestJet was supposed to be the launch customer for the 600 winglets but the cost overran the savings as they were doing much of the short haul flying.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:25 am

United1 wrote:
Just to be pedantic the 737-900s (non-ERs) have blended winglets vs split Scimitars.

Not entirely correct. Here's three different -900s with split scimitar winglets. I also flew on a -900 with split scimitar winglets just last September.

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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:36 am

AirKevin wrote:
United1 wrote:
Just to be pedantic the 737-900s (non-ERs) have blended winglets vs split Scimitars.

Not entirely correct. Here's three different -900s with split scimitar winglets. I also flew on a -900 with split scimitar winglets just last September.




Along with the Alaska none er 900’s also have splits. Just those three test frames have no winglets, 302, 303 and 305.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:39 am

BWIAirport wrote:
All AS 737s minus a few ancient 739 non-ERs have split scimitars and have had them since like 2015


As others have said, all -900s (ERs and non-ERs) have splits except for 302, 303, and 305. All -800s have them as well. While the -700s do not have the split scimitars, they all have the blended winglets
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:01 am

I “ heard “ years ago wing lets increased static build up. Also on smaller aircraft they would fludder with ice.
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:28 am

simairlinenet wrote:
United seems to be leading U.S. carriers (and maybe the world?) on winglet installations:
-All 737s have Split Scimitar winglets
-All the sCO 757s have Scimitar winglets (and all the sUA have blended winglets)
-All the 767-300ERs have blended winglets

Have other airlines adopted as much as United? I can’t think of other airlines that have invested as much:
-737s: other airlines have Split Scimitars, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
-757s: have any other airlines done Scimitar winglets?
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?
DylanHarvey wrote:
Icelandair have Scimitar's on all if not most of their 752's.
And Luxair also have Split Scimitar winglets on the 738/73G fleet.

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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:58 am

N649DL wrote:
trees wrote:
simairlinenet wrote:
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


AA and DL are fleet-wide blended winglets


DL actually has a few retrofitted 757s that don't have them. I was on N670DN on ATL-MCO last month and didn't have them and yet had a brand new interior.



Ship 670 had previously been on the retirement list. When the price of oil dropped and the economy improved, it (along with other 757 aircraft) was given an H check, a new interior and stayed in the fleet. DL didn't see a reasonable ROI for winglets at that point and decided not to make that capital expenditure.
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:09 am

Anybody with a good handle on direct costs (purchase and fitment, but not lost flight hours) and payback period with oil at $60/barrel and 1500-mile stage lengths for a 757? (Or other example.)
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:17 am

Stitch wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
IIRC, FedEx acquired some 752s w/ winglets and had them removed.

joeljack wrote:
Why in the world would FexEx remove them? Wasted fuel and greenhouse gas emissions.


FedEx does not add winglets to their new-build 767-300Fs (the ones they acquired from LAN had/have them) and it has been said this is due to both ramp space and the average stage-lengths not making it worthwhile. This could be the case with their 757s, as well.


FedEx also removed the winglets from the former Azerbaijan B763 freighters as well. The ex-LAN B763s were returned to LATAM with winglets.
 
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:32 am

Spacepope wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

IIRC it's got to do with Airbus making constant incremental changes to their designs tather than new generations. The wing internal structure was changed past LN 1200 and while sharklets conceivably *could* be added (since they were tested on one of the A320 prototypes which was originally built as a -100) there is a ton of expensive wing work that would need to be done and certified and nobody is gonna spring for that. It's kinda similar to why you dont see 737-400s with winglets even though the -500 and -300 can have them.


I thought the 737-400 didn't get winglets only because no one wanted to step up to pay the STC costs? Same as the -600?


Sorry that's what I was getting at. The return on the costs of the STC and retrofit were no bueno. Same with sub-1200 A320s apparently, it's really just not financially viable to save a bit of fuel on these remaining early birds.


...having to do with the number of each type, correct? The same STC cost spread over, say, 50 vs. 250 of a type makes the big cost difference.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:47 am

Winglets on the 767 still look so odd to me. It's like seeing a dog walking on its hind legs.
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Revelation
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:57 am

rbavfan wrote:
Revelation wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

Famously (or not) the KC-46A tanker based on 767 has no winglets for similar reasons, they just did not earn their way on to the airplane.

Even though these aircraft will presumably be flying for 50+ years like KC-135, they mainly tend to fly short hops and no where near as many hours as commercial airliners so they aren't worth the expense and the weight they add to the airplane.

The KC46A has modified wingtips for its specific use.

Do tell, I don't see anything akin to winglets on KC46A e.g. https://leehamnews.com/wp-content/uploa ... Parker.jpg -- are you referring to military lighting / camera / etc ?
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Pinto
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:12 am

United1 wrote:

As someone else mentioned while winglets are not cheap UA gets a bigger bang for its buck as its stage length is quite a bit longer than AA, DL or WN. Just to be pedantic the 737-900s (non-ERs) have blended winglets vs split Scimitars. For only 12 aircraft I am sure the additional STC was prohibitively expensive.


All of United's 737 NGs have Split Scimitar winglets
 
strfyr51
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:22 am

Revelation wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

Famously (or not) the KC-46A tanker based on 767 has no winglets for similar reasons, they just did not earn their way on to the airplane.

Even though these aircraft will presumably be flying for 50+ years like KC-135, they mainly tend to fly short hops and no where near as many hours as commercial airliners so they aren't worth the expense and the weight they add to the airplane.

The KC-46 dies not have winglets but it does have the raked wing tips which are aerodynamically superior, The USAF had no need to fit yjr KC-46 into any airport Gate space so they took the Raked wingtips. Which be accounts is superior to the winglets,
 
trees
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:10 am

N649DL wrote:
trees wrote:
simairlinenet wrote:
-767s: other airlines have blended winglets, but not fleet-wide—is this correct?


AA and DL are fleet-wide blended winglets


DL actually has a few retrofitted 757s that don't have them. I was on N670DN on ATL-MCO last month and didn't have them and yet had a brand new interior.


Yes, I was talking about the 767’s. They have actually removed winglets from some of the 757’s
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:11 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

Famously (or not) the KC-46A tanker based on 767 has no winglets for similar reasons, they just did not earn their way on to the airplane.

Even though these aircraft will presumably be flying for 50+ years like KC-135, they mainly tend to fly short hops and no where near as many hours as commercial airliners so they aren't worth the expense and the weight they add to the airplane.

The KC-46 dies not have winglets but it does have the raked wing tips which are aerodynamically superior, The USAF had no need to fit yjr KC-46 into any airport Gate space so they took the Raked wingtips. Which be accounts is superior to the winglets,


It most certainly does not.
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jumpseat67
Posts: 81
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Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:27 am

simairlinenet wrote:
United seems to be leading U.S. carriers (and maybe the world?) on winglet installations:
-All the sCO 757s have Scimitar winglets (and all the sUA have blended winglets)


Sorry, incorrect. All 757s have blended winglets.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Winglets - Why aren't others following United?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:36 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the low hours flown and short legs, the winglets probably cost fuel.

Famously (or not) the KC-46A tanker based on 767 has no winglets for similar reasons, they just did not earn their way on to the airplane.

Even though these aircraft will presumably be flying for 50+ years like KC-135, they mainly tend to fly short hops and no where near as many hours as commercial airliners so they aren't worth the expense and the weight they add to the airplane.

The KC-46 dies not have winglets but it does have the raked wing tips which are aerodynamically superior, The USAF had no need to fit yjr KC-46 into any airport Gate space so they took the Raked wingtips. Which be accounts is superior to the winglets,

Thinking about the P-8 I assume?

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