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TSA125
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KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:51 am

PH-BQG flew into AMA from AMS this afternoon. Is it a charter of some sort?
No not that TSA.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:58 am

It's in the old livery currently. Could it be for paint?
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Ishrion
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:06 am

Probably paint? That’s where United sends some aircraft for the new livery.
 
speedbird52
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:21 am

I wonder if those couple guys in first class on a flight finally did meet a girl from Amarillo
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:49 am

It’s for paint indeed. Once done PH-BQH will follow.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
aeropix
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:55 am

speedbird52 wrote:
I wonder if those couple guys in first class on a flight finally did meet a girl from Amarillo


Any chance you'd explain this? I've been living under a rock most of my life and don't understand.
 
KDAL
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:10 am

aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
I wonder if those couple guys in first class on a flight finally did meet a girl from Amarillo


Any chance you'd explain this? I've been living under a rock most of my life and don't understand.


It's a reference to a country song. "Fly Over States" by Jason Aldean.
All opinions and views expressed are my own and not representative of those of Southwest Airlines Co., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
 
speedbird52
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:37 am

KDAL wrote:
aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
I wonder if those couple guys in first class on a flight finally did meet a girl from Amarillo


Any chance you'd explain this? I've been living under a rock most of my life and don't understand.


It's a reference to a country song. "Fly Over States" by Jason Aldean.

Hey someone got it! Don't feel bad for not getting it, I don't think I was clear enough about it being a reference
 
aeropix
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:08 am

speedbird52 wrote:
KDAL wrote:
aeropix wrote:

Any chance you'd explain this? I've been living under a rock most of my life and don't understand.


It's a reference to a country song. "Fly Over States" by Jason Aldean.

Hey someone got it! Don't feel bad for not getting it, I don't think I was clear enough about it being a reference


Thanks, I'll look up the song and check it out.

Meanwhile I'm wondering why KL is sending the planes to AMA for paint, I thought airlines only did this when they were trying to keep something secret. Doesn't KL have their own paint facilities in AMS?
 
Max Q
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:15 am

KDAL wrote:
aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
I wonder if those couple guys in first class on a flight finally did meet a girl from Amarillo


Any chance you'd explain this? I've been living under a rock most of my life and don't understand.


It's a reference to a country song. "Fly Over States" by Jason Aldean.



What is a Jason Aldean ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
TSA125
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am

aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
KDAL wrote:

It's a reference to a country song. "Fly Over States" by Jason Aldean.

Hey someone got it! Don't feel bad for not getting it, I don't think I was clear enough about it being a reference


Thanks, I'll look up the song and check it out.

Meanwhile I'm wondering why KL is sending the planes to AMA for paint, I thought airlines only did this when they were trying to keep something secret. Doesn't KL have their own paint facilities in AMS?


Yeah I knew AA/UA get repaints done in AMA but it sure is a long ways away from AMS...

Europe has a few repaint facilities itself; Dublin comes to mind.
No not that TSA.
 
LGeneReese
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:08 am

TSA125 wrote:
aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
Hey someone got it! Don't feel bad for not getting it, I don't think I was clear enough about it being a reference


Thanks, I'll look up the song and check it out.

Meanwhile I'm wondering why KL is sending the planes to AMA for paint, I thought airlines only did this when they were trying to keep something secret. Doesn't KL have their own paint facilities in AMS?


Yeah I knew AA/UA get repaints done in AMA but it sure is a long ways away from AMS...

Europe has a few repaint facilities itself; Dublin comes to mind.

This is the company in question
https://iac.aero/
 
airbuster
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:35 am

aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
KDAL wrote:

It's a reference to a country song. "Fly Over States" by Jason Aldean.

Hey someone got it! Don't feel bad for not getting it, I don't think I was clear enough about it being a reference


Thanks, I'll look up the song and check it out.

Meanwhile I'm wondering why KL is sending the planes to AMA for paint, I thought airlines only did this when they were trying to keep something secret. Doesn't KL have their own paint facilities in AMS?


No paintshop anymore at KLM. They stopped doing this in-house a couple of years ago. They have used a shop in MAN for some time. Though the skyteam livery on the last 77W was done there in a different color than the rest.
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:52 am

That's ridiculously far away to paint an aircraft. Will she bring pax home from a US destination or will she fly home empty to Amsterdam when they are done re-painting her?
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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keesje
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:28 pm

Yes, this doesn't seem the most environmental friendly way of stripping, painting a KLM aircraft, Pieter Elbers / his social media watch dogs. Better pre-empt before this hits headlines.

Some one will quickly calculate how many tons of fuel this costed, compared to e.g. Manchester.

A cheaper proposal won and other priorities were skipped?

https://images.app.goo.gl/BAPArGApD74c6UnW9
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
FB330
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:51 pm

Agree. What a waste.

I remember a few years back, KL put an additional schedule on to take passengers to KUL when D checks were taking place in Malaysia. Much better use of resources....
 
B757Forever
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:56 pm

keesje wrote:
Yes, this doesn't seem the most environmental friendly way of stripping, painting a KLM aircraft, Pieter Elbers / his social media watch dogs. Better pre-empt before this hits headlines.

Some one will quickly calculate how many tons of fuel this costed, compared to e.g. Manchester.

A cheaper proposal won and other priorities were skipped?

https://images.app.goo.gl/BAPArGApD74c6UnW9



Empty aircraft are ferried worldwide on an almost daily basis moving to and from maintenance. This KLM event is not unusual.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
FB330
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Not unusual for maintenance, but flying 9 hours for a lick of paint? Contrast that with the very public environmental messages and I do think this stands out....
 
MIflyer12
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm

FB330 wrote:
Not unusual for maintenance, but flying 9 hours for a lick of paint? Contrast that with the very public environmental messages and I do think this stands out....


Use this an an example to demonstrate how unproductive are the facilties at MAN vs. AMA such that KL would rather fly an empty 777 an extra ~7500km each way.
 
iberiadc852
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:01 pm

Dying to see the KLM 777 repainted with the new livery "in Amarillo". I bet it looks very bright.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
Arion640
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:19 pm

B757Forever wrote:
keesje wrote:
Yes, this doesn't seem the most environmental friendly way of stripping, painting a KLM aircraft, Pieter Elbers / his social media watch dogs. Better pre-empt before this hits headlines.

Some one will quickly calculate how many tons of fuel this costed, compared to e.g. Manchester.

A cheaper proposal won and other priorities were skipped?

https://images.app.goo.gl/BAPArGApD74c6UnW9



Empty aircraft are ferried worldwide on an almost daily basis moving to and from maintenance. This KLM event is not unusual.


But with KLM trying to be the worlds most sustainable airline and all that though?

Much closer paint shops in MAN, DUB and MAD.
 
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cathay747
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:38 pm

Arion640 wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
keesje wrote:
Yes, this doesn't seem the most environmental friendly way of stripping, painting a KLM aircraft, Pieter Elbers / his social media watch dogs. Better pre-empt before this hits headlines.

Some one will quickly calculate how many tons of fuel this costed, compared to e.g. Manchester.

A cheaper proposal won and other priorities were skipped?

https://images.app.goo.gl/BAPArGApD74c6UnW9



Empty aircraft are ferried worldwide on an almost daily basis moving to and from maintenance. This KLM event is not unusual.


But with KLM trying to be the worlds most sustainable airline and all that though?

Much closer paint shops in MAN, DUB and MAD.


I have to agree. I'm not an "environmental activist" by any stretch, but try to do my part. Yes, empty aircraft are indeed ferried worldwide all the time for MX, but there are ways to minimize the environmental (read: CO2 emissions) impact.

It seems to me that given how something like this would have be planned at least a few months in advance that, with multiple daily DL/KL flights between the DL hubs of ATL/MSP/DTW and AMS that they couldn't fly the ship on a regular revenue service to one of those hubs, cancel its return to AMS and move all pax to one of the other flights, and then ferry it empty a MUCH shorter distance to AMA; then do the reverse when the paint job is done to put the ship back into the system. SMH.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
BravoOne
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Looks like the AMA facility was once part of the USAF B52 operations back in the 60's?
 
Sightseer
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:12 pm

iberiadc852 wrote:
Dying to see the KLM 777 repainted with the new livery "in Amarillo". I bet it looks very bright.

Agreed. Will be quite a change from their current blue. Or should I say "Azul"? ;)
 
Dalmd88
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:14 pm

Most likely the paint shop in AMS was closed due to increasing environmental regulations in Europe. So they have to fly 9 hours to some lonely airport to get repaints now. I know Delta rarely paints in ATL for this reason. Painting even with the most modern equipment is a huge VOC emitter. In a major city there are now limits on industrial voc. A single paint line can use up all the allowable emissions for the facility.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:17 pm

Arion640 wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
keesje wrote:
Yes, this doesn't seem the most environmental friendly way of stripping, painting a KLM aircraft, Pieter Elbers / his social media watch dogs. Better pre-empt before this hits headlines.

Some one will quickly calculate how many tons of fuel this costed, compared to e.g. Manchester.

A cheaper proposal won and other priorities were skipped?

https://images.app.goo.gl/BAPArGApD74c6UnW9



Empty aircraft are ferried worldwide on an almost daily basis moving to and from maintenance. This KLM event is not unusual.


But with KLM trying to be the worlds most sustainable airline and all that though?

Much closer paint shops in MAN, DUB and MAD.



While they might be closer, they could also be a lot more expensive and also full. You send aircraft where you can get the job done for the price you want.
 
andrej
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:41 pm

I understand that this is a normal practice for any business. To obtain lowest price offer for certain job, in order to reduce costs. Acceptable and perfectly normal.

Yet, when an airline launches a campaign urging people fly less (on short hauls), and is self announced "leader" in environmental campaigns, then I find it hypocritical.

How much did such ferry flight caused harm to the environment, rather then utilizing services nearby (and possibly offer an additional flight to general public, or make an event for enthusiasts = good PR)?

How much KLM saved?
BTW, I have a great admiration for KLM, but this is counter productive.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:04 pm

andrej wrote:
I understand that this is a normal practice for any business. To obtain lowest price offer for certain job, in order to reduce costs. Acceptable and perfectly normal.

Yet, when an airline launches a campaign urging people fly less (on short hauls), and is self announced "leader" in environmental campaigns, then I find it hypocritical.

How much did such ferry flight caused harm to the environment, rather then utilizing services nearby (and possibly offer an additional flight to general public, or make an event for enthusiasts = good PR)?

How much KLM saved?
BTW, I have a great admiration for KLM, but this is counter productive.


You don't have enough information to find it hypocritical or not, I don't think. Painting can be OK for the environment or it can pollute terribly depending on the competence of the folks doing it. Let's say that the facility at AMA releases 50 percent fewer VOCs to the atmosphere than any closer facility would. Perhaps then going to AMA is a net environmental positive. After all, environmental conservation is about more than just fuel use.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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LTU932
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:20 pm

BasilFawlty wrote:
It’s for paint indeed. Once done PH-BQH will follow.
Will that one remain in KLM Asia colours (albeit it in the new livery), or will it go back to full KL colours?
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Most likely the paint shop in AMS was closed due to increasing environmental regulations in Europe. So they have to fly 9 hours to some lonely airport to get repaints now. I know Delta rarely paints in ATL for this reason. Painting even with the most modern equipment is a huge VOC emitter. In a major city there are now limits on industrial voc. A single paint line can use up all the allowable emissions for the facility.

Delta flies planes to Singapore for interior mods. Many US based airlines fly planes to HKG for maintenance, it’s a very common practice.
 
skipness1E
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:59 pm

airbuster wrote:
aeropix wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
Hey someone got it! Don't feel bad for not getting it, I don't think I was clear enough about it being a reference


Thanks, I'll look up the song and check it out.

Meanwhile I'm wondering why KL is sending the planes to AMA for paint, I thought airlines only did this when they were trying to keep something secret. Doesn't KL have their own paint facilities in AMS?


No paintshop anymore at KLM. They stopped doing this in-house a couple of years ago. They have used a shop in MAN for some time. Though the skyteam livery on the last 77W was done there in a different color than the rest.

Air Livery at MAN was closed as MAG put the rent up. Wasn’t the SkyTeam B77W delivered from PAE fully painted?
 
Tikchik
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:32 pm

iberiadc852 wrote:
Dying to see the KLM 777 repainted with the new livery "in Amarillo". I bet it looks very bright.

Lots more turquoise options if they did paint in ABQ.
 
FB330
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:38 pm

BVD certainly entered service in Skyteam colours, so assume it was done at the factory, not MAN.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:03 pm

Maybe they are testing a new route from Amarillo to Amsterdam?
 
MBASS
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:55 pm

I understand that price does a lot, and that they go to AMA for that amongst others. Just too bad they didn't combine the ferry-flight with KL661 to IAH for instance, would save quite a bit.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:55 pm

A year ago Hawaiian Airlines operated an Airbus A330 flight from Honolulu to Rome for repainting. That's over 8,000 miles one way, 3,000 miles more than the KLM aircraft had to cover.

viewtopic.php?t=1407909
 
EFHK
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:02 pm

There are more than 100,000 commercial flights daily in the world, and that's not even counting private, business, military etc. Outcrying over some painting flights to Amarillo from wherever is a prime example of climate hysteria at its absurdest.
 
airbuster
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:23 pm

skipness1E wrote:
airbuster wrote:
aeropix wrote:

Thanks, I'll look up the song and check it out.

Meanwhile I'm wondering why KL is sending the planes to AMA for paint, I thought airlines only did this when they were trying to keep something secret. Doesn't KL have their own paint facilities in AMS?


No paintshop anymore at KLM. They stopped doing this in-house a couple of years ago. They have used a shop in MAN for some time. Though the skyteam livery on the last 77W was done there in a different color than the rest.

Air Livery at MAN was closed as MAG put the rent up. Wasn’t the SkyTeam B77W delivered from PAE fully painted?


BVD got repainted in the meantime. Significant change in greyness ...
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
TWA902fly
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:04 pm

MBASS wrote:
I understand that price does a lot, and that they go to AMA for that amongst others. Just too bad they didn't combine the ferry-flight with KL661 to IAH for instance, would save quite a bit.


How much revenue would they lose by not operating the return IAH-AMS on that day? Would it be worth it? I assume they made this calculation.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:46 am

MartijnNL wrote:
A year ago Hawaiian Airlines operated an Airbus A330 flight from Honolulu to Rome for repainting. That's over 8,000 miles one way, 3,000 miles more than the KLM aircraft had to cover.

viewtopic.php?t=1407909

HA ferries planes from HI to MIA for the 717 heavy maintenance and they add cabin fuel tanks to make it from HI to CA.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:49 am

Nice to know what this plane is doing. I saw high overhead yesterday when it was at 43K feet.
 
Flanker7
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:30 am

FB330 wrote:
BVD certainly entered service in Skyteam colours, so assume it was done at the factory, not MAN.

She was delivered in Skyteam colours on delivery and went to MAN in 2017 for a new coat of paint. YouTube has some videos of her arrival and departure.
Flying blue only if possible
 
maverick4002
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:48 pm

I feel people are missing the point here? No one is complaining about the repainting per say. The issue here is KLM is one of the loudest airlines as respects environmental protection and taking steps to reduce emissions etc. So its not a good look at all if you are harping about saving the environment and you do a flight like this with seemingly closer less environmentally damaging options available. That's all
 
TSA125
Topic Author
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:55 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
B757Forever wrote:


Empty aircraft are ferried worldwide on an almost daily basis moving to and from maintenance. This KLM event is not unusual.


But with KLM trying to be the worlds most sustainable airline and all that though?

Much closer paint shops in MAN, DUB and MAD.


I have to agree. I'm not an "environmental activist" by any stretch, but try to do my part. Yes, empty aircraft are indeed ferried worldwide all the time for MX, but there are ways to minimize the environmental (read: CO2 emissions) impact.

It seems to me that given how something like this would have be planned at least a few months in advance that, with multiple daily DL/KL flights between the DL hubs of ATL/MSP/DTW and AMS that they couldn't fly the ship on a regular revenue service to one of those hubs, cancel its return to AMS and move all pax to one of the other flights, and then ferry it empty a MUCH shorter distance to AMA; then do the reverse when the paint job is done to put the ship back into the system. SMH.


Precisely! And considering the painting company in question does in fact have facilities in Ireland and Czechia, how could KL justify it?

If it's a specific MX situation that requires specialists, that's a different case (i.e. D-checks, UA sending its 767s to HKG a few years back to get winglets installed).
No not that TSA.
 
Arion640
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:42 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
B757Forever wrote:


Empty aircraft are ferried worldwide on an almost daily basis moving to and from maintenance. This KLM event is not unusual.


But with KLM trying to be the worlds most sustainable airline and all that though?

Much closer paint shops in MAN, DUB and MAD.



While they might be closer, they could also be a lot more expensive and also full. You send aircraft where you can get the job done for the price you want.


I wouldn’t say so much if KLM weren’t touting themselves as being a carbon friendly airline.
 
kabq737
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:14 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
A year ago Hawaiian Airlines operated an Airbus A330 flight from Honolulu to Rome for repainting. That's over 8,000 miles one way, 3,000 miles more than the KLM aircraft had to cover.

viewtopic.php?t=1407909

HA ferries planes from HI to MIA for the 717 heavy maintenance and they add cabin fuel tanks to make it from HI to CA.


Do you know what the routing is for that trip?
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:45 am

kabq737 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
A year ago Hawaiian Airlines operated an Airbus A330 flight from Honolulu to Rome for repainting. That's over 8,000 miles one way, 3,000 miles more than the KLM aircraft had to cover.

viewtopic.php?t=1407909

HA ferries planes from HI to MIA for the 717 heavy maintenance and they add cabin fuel tanks to make it from HI to CA.


Do you know what the routing is for that trip?

All I could find was this.

https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-717-fly-way-mainland/
 
kabq737
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:40 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
HA ferries planes from HI to MIA for the 717 heavy maintenance and they add cabin fuel tanks to make it from HI to CA.


Do you know what the routing is for that trip?

All I could find was this.

https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-717-fly-way-mainland/


Cool! Thanks!!
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
inkjet7
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:54 pm

MBASS wrote:
I understand that price does a lot, and that they go to AMA for that amongst others. Just too bad they didn't combine the ferry-flight with KL661 to IAH for instance, would save quite a bit.

And the return flight would be cancelled?
 
EMBQA
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Re: KL 777 in Amarillo, TX

Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:30 pm

In the late 90's I was in AMA Managing the repaint of one of our aircraft when Qantas sent in a 747-400 non-stop from SYD. I remember leaving for dinner around 5p the night before and we were told they were wheels up, the next day when returning from lunch they were just taxing in. I remember thinking, dang, thats along flight. They had 2 flight crews and even a cabin attendant and several maintenance guys
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"

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