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Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:16 am

Welcome to the dedicated thread for Other Manufacturers Orders and announcements plus any general discussion for the Dubai Air Show 2019.

As per other airshow threads please keep on topic and keep with in the rules. Please add your comments below
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:58 am

Elin Group limited has signed a purchase agreement for 3 Dash 8 400’s

https://twitter.com/_todd_young/status/ ... 07430?s=21
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:02 am

qf789 wrote:
Elin Group limited has signed a purchase agreement for 3 Dash 8 400’s

https://twitter.com/_todd_young/status/ ... 07430?s=21


According to deHavilland it’s a firm order

https://dehavilland.com/en/news/posts/e ... 0-aircraft
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:30 am

Air Peace orders 3 E195-E2, takes their total order for the E195-E2 to 13

https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 83904?s=21
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:14 am

qf789 wrote:
Air Peace orders 3 E195-E2, takes their total order for the E195-E2 to 13

https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 83904?s=21


Somewhat shockingly, Air Peace remains the only real customer for the E2 this year (with KLM's "order" coming from existing lessors' backlogs).
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:18 am

Lufthansa Technik will start the first A350 VIP conversion in Apr 2020, preparation work has already begun.This is the first of three A350 VIP conversions for the German government.
https://twitter.com/LHTechnik/status/1196022162336993280
Pioneering the next level in #vipcompletion: We are proud to announce that in spring 2020 we will be first to perform a head-of-state cabin conversion on an #Airbus #A350. Preparations in our Hamburg workshops have already begun. https://bit.ly/2rKxJVF #DubaiAirShow #DAS19


And official statement by Lufthansa Technik.
https://www.lufthansa-technik.com/press-releases/-/asset_publisher/Xix57wMv0mow/content/first-a350-vip-completion?p_p_auth=dUYu9F5P&_101_INSTANCE_LMQlVvc4xSJw_redirect=/
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:59 am

And next: Lufthansa Technik and Honeywell announces a collaboration.
Honeywell (NYSE: HON) and Lufthansa Technik are collaborating to deliver the best of Honeywell Forge for Airlines and Lufthansa Technik maintenance analytics on AVIATAR to help airline operators increase the availability of their aircraft and reduce costs associated with operations, flight delays, and cancellations.


https://www.lufthansa-technik.com/press-releases/-/asset_publisher/Xix57wMv0mow/content/pr-honeywell_aviatar?_101_INSTANCE_5cSbhaGarZET_redirect=/media
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:03 pm

And next: Order
Purchase agreement for 12 Bell 505 helicopters by Horizon International Flight Academy.
Today at #DAS19, Horizon International Flight Academy has signed a purchase agreement for 12 Bell 505 helicopters, adding to their existing Bell-only fleet of Bell 206s, Bell 407s, and Bell 429s.

https://twitter.com/BellFlight/status/1196031480927072256

EDIT: And a second link.
https://twitter.com/JPLinteau/status/1196042411170050048
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:47 pm

CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:05 pm

qf789 wrote:
CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets


Not an E2 :(
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:17 pm

SEU wrote:
qf789 wrote:
CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets


Not an E2 :(


I think it is even a better situation, to sell and deliver E1 until Pratt & Whitney solve the issues with the PW1000G engines.

I estimated the overall cost due to all the issues and fixing them at the same level of the full cost for initial PW1000G development. It is horrifying!
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:23 pm

SEU wrote:
qf789 wrote:
CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets


Not an E2 :(


There are just too many countries/airlines in the world with/bound by scope clauses and regional airlines protection laws like ;US, Canada, IAE groiup, France e.g. or there are other reasons, like the mainline airline and the LCC subsidiaries shall fly different types of planes, not to be forced to pay the same for the crews. Tthe E2 jets are just a little bit too much, they are too heavy, have too many PAX. If there is an urgent need for new jets, they have to buy the E1 family. And as there are no other suitable jets any more...
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:34 pm

qf789 wrote:
CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets


I'm really surprised that anybody ordered new E-190's with all the second hand models available on the market.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:37 pm

VV wrote:
SEU wrote:
qf789 wrote:
CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets


Not an E2 :(


I think it is even a better situation, to sell and deliver E1 until Pratt & Whitney solve the issues with the PW1000G engines.

I estimated the overall cost due to all the issues and fixing them at the same level of the full cost for initial PW1000G development. It is horrifying!


WTF? the cost is for Pratt not airlines. And it's probably a software issue unique to Swiss as far as we know. And since the E2 is lighter than A220, he needs less thrust and he's not affected by (temporary) thrust limitations...
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:50 pm

T4thH wrote:
SEU wrote:
qf789 wrote:
CIAF leasing signs a firm order for 3 E190's

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e190-jets


Not an E2 :(


There are just too many countries/airlines in the world with/bound by scope clauses and regional airlines protection laws like ;US, Canada, IAE groiup, France e.g. or there are other reasons, like the mainline airline and the LCC subsidiaries shall fly different types of planes, not to be forced to pay the same for the crews. Tthe E2 jets are just a little bit too much, they are too heavy, have too many PAX. If there is an urgent need for new jets, they have to buy the E1 family. And as there are no other suitable jets any more...

Not sure about other countries, but E190’s vs E2195’s are no different from a scope perspective in the US (both are mainline aircraft).
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:24 pm

Hopefully the Q400 can pick up some more orders along the way.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:48 pm

Hopefully the Twin Otter 400 as well.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:06 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
T4thH wrote:
SEU wrote:

Not an E2 :(


There are just too many countries/airlines in the world with/bound by scope clauses and regional airlines protection laws like ;US, Canada, IAE groiup, France e.g. or there are other reasons, like the mainline airline and the LCC subsidiaries shall fly different types of planes, not to be forced to pay the same for the crews. Tthe E2 jets are just a little bit too much, they are too heavy, have too many PAX. If there is an urgent need for new jets, they have to buy the E1 family. And as there are no other suitable jets any more...

Not sure about other countries, but E190’s vs E2195’s are no different from a scope perspective in the US (both are mainline aircraft).


France is one of the examples, there are laws to protect regional airlines. Mainline airlines are not allowed to fly planes with less than 100 seats. Regional airlines are allowed to fly planes up to 99 seats, but mainline airlines are allowed to posses a regional airline subsidiary. So, Air France is owning the regional subsidiary HOP!. Additional, Air France management will take care, that the regional subsidiary will not fly the same jet family as the mainline, so there will be a difference, so they will have to pay less.
Air France mainline has already ordered the A220-300, I expect we will see the E190 E2 with may 99 seats ordered by Air France group management for Hop!.
In this case, it will be interesting. CIAF is a lessor from Egypt, so for whom have they ordered these 3 E190?
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:37 pm

queb wrote:
VV wrote:
SEU wrote:

Not an E2 :(


I think it is even a better situation, to sell and deliver E1 until Pratt & Whitney solve the issues with the PW1000G engines.

I estimated the overall cost due to all the issues and fixing them at the same level of the full cost for initial PW1000G development. It is horrifying!


WTF? the cost is for Pratt not airlines. And it's probably a software issue unique to Swiss as far as we know. And since the E2 is lighter than A220, he needs less thrust and he's not affected by (temporary) thrust limitations...


No. There are a hell lot more issues than what we read in the press.
I do not work at Airbus nor at Embraer, so you do not need to believe what I said.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:22 pm

T4thH wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
T4thH wrote:

Air France mainline has already ordered the A220-300, I expect we will see the E190 E2 with may 99 seats ordered by Air France group management for Hop!.
In this case, it will be interesting. CIAF is a lessor from Egypt, so for whom have they ordered these 3 E190?

I can imagine airlines like South African Airlink, Hop!, Belavia or Kenya Airways want to top up their E190 ceo fleet and rather lease than order at this stage.
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:42 am

Seems day 2 will be a little bit more busy. Press conferences announced on Dubai Airshow on day 2:
Etihad Airways
Emirates
Boeing
Airbus
Dehaviland
AerCap

and others till not announced.
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1196279814765850624
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:00 am

Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:22 am

LifelinerOne wrote:

I would have preferred an actual airline as lessor orders have more chance to not fully happen. That said, Palma placed their current Q400s at Ethiopian, Rwandair. Will these airlines, perhaps including Congo, Asky, need 20 more?
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:50 am

Nice to see DeHavilland getting some sales.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:06 pm

Lewton wrote:
Nice to see DeHavilland getting some sales.

ATR has rocked the Paris Airshow this year. Good to see that there is still a competition in the turboprop market.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:09 pm

Google Translator:
Abu Dhabi Aviation, one of the largest helicopter operators in the Middle East, is ordering five helicopters from Leonardo including its first AW169s during the Dubai Airshow 2019
https://air-cosmos.com/article/dubai-airshow-2019-leonardo-vend-cinq-hlicoptres-de-plus-abu-dhabi-aviation-22032?utm_source=Sociallymap&utm_medium=Sociallymap&utm_campaign=Sociallymap
 
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:33 pm

PM wrote:


This is not really a surprise, as there is only one engine on the A350 Xwb; the xwb (so RR Trent Xwb).
It will be much more interesting, who has got the engine order for the firmed 120 Air Arabia A320 family order. As firmed, also the engine order shall have been already performed.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:56 pm

T4thH wrote:
Lewton wrote:
Nice to see DeHavilland getting some sales.

ATR has rocked the Paris Airshow this year. Good to see that there is still a competition in the turboprop market.


The ATR needs competition and now that the Dash 8 has been freed from Bombardier, I think these are signs that it will become much more formidable again. I would not be surprised to see de Havilland relaunch the DH2 & DH3 within the next 5 years.

20 Dash 8s is huge. That’s what a year’s worth of production?
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:25 pm

That's 23 orders for the Q400 it seems
De Havilland is going after sales in a way Bombadier couldn't.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:46 pm

As mentioned in the article I linked to about airframes being scrapped it is a case that the planes which are still in production are the ones which retain the most resale value.
Since DeHavilland will be doing MRO work it isn't just a win that they get new orders, they win by keeping business going for maintenance on the plane.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:39 pm

baje427 wrote:
That's 23 orders for the Q400 it seems
De Havilland is going after sales in a way Bombadier couldn't.


I suspect some of these orders were already in the pipeline but the customers (especially leasing firms) wanted to see if the manufacturer / aircraft / spares supply had a future before committing.
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:19 pm

T4thH wrote:
Google Translator:
Abu Dhabi Aviation, one of the largest helicopter operators in the Middle East, is ordering five helicopters from Leonardo including its first AW169s during the Dubai Airshow 2019
https://air-cosmos.com/article/dubai-airshow-2019-leonardo-vend-cinq-hlicoptres-de-plus-abu-dhabi-aviation-22032?utm_source=Sociallymap&utm_medium=Sociallymap&utm_campaign=Sociallymap


Now some additional information to this order: Order for 5 helicopters has been firmed by Abu Dhabi Aviation, 3x AW139 and 2x AW169.
Abu Dhabi Aviation (ADA), the largest supplier of commercial helicopter services in the Middle East and North Africa, and Leonardo announced the signing of contracts for five helicopters, including three AW139s and two AW169s, with deliveries scheduled for 2020. This is the first order for AW169 helicopters for this customer and in addition to the 16 AW139 already present in the ADA fleet in support mainly of the Oil & Gas industry. These orders are part of the agreement for 15 helicopters of the AW139 / AW169 / AW189 models announced at the end of 2015.

https://www.md80.it/2019/11/18/leonardo-ordini-e-accordi-al-dubai-airshow-2019/
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:02 am

Poor Mitsubishi getting no love.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:30 am

Is ATR in the running this year, or even present at all at the show?

It's good to see some Q400 orders. It revives the ATR/(new)DHC rivalry again, which is nice. Then again, ATR has never had much of a hold in the region it seems.

ordell wrote:
Poor Mitsubishi getting no love.


Quite sad, but I think this is another manufacturer that likely doesn't expect much business from customers that would announce their orders at DXB.
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:36 am

Francoflier wrote:
Is ATR in the running this year, or even present at all at the show?

Yes, they are present at this year's show. https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/atr

However, they did not bring in any aircaraft for the show. DeHavilland has DHC 8- 400.
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:24 am

The Government of Ghana also signed a LOI with DeHavilland for 6 DHC-8-400s:

https://dehavilland.com/en/news/posts/g ... and-canada

Cheers!
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:50 am

LifelinerOne wrote:
The Government of Ghana also signed a LOI with DeHavilland for 6 DHC-8-400s:

https://dehavilland.com/en/news/posts/g ... and-canada

Cheers!


Nice to see the order. I was waiting for the DeHavilland announcement, a DeHavilland Press Conference was on the today Dubai Airshow PC list mentioned. Good to see again also a Duopol on the global turboprop market.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 pm

what is the next airshow? if it is a few months out then maybe an announcement for the PW150C is just around the corner and that will spur other orders.

Not hearing anything about the MA700.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:22 pm

leghorn wrote:
what is the next airshow? if it is a few months out then maybe an announcement for the PW150C is just around the corner and that will spur other orders.

Not hearing anything about the MA700.


Any recent update regarding the PW150C
 
baje427
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:23 pm

De Havilland got more orders at this air show than BBD has ever I think.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:26 pm

baje427 wrote:
De Havilland got more orders at this air show than BBD has ever I think.

To be fair as someone pointed out many of these orders were probably started under BBD’s tenure. I also suspect De Havilland held signings until the air show to make a bigger a PR impact since they are still a rather small and often overlooked company.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:29 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
what is the next airshow? if it is a few months out then maybe an announcement for the PW150C is just around the corner and that will spur other orders.

Not hearing anything about the MA700.


Any recent update regarding the PW150C

I know only what I read in their media pages on their website and there is nothing new there
 
Dominion301
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:41 pm

Another DH4 LOI:

Aurora Signs Letter of Intent to Acquire Five Dash 8-400 Aircraft from De Havilland Canada


Aurora is Aeroflot's regional turboprop subsidiary.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 21201.html

So much for the Dash 8 being on life support. Assuming the MOUs and LOIs get firmed up, De Havilland have just added over two years of production to their backlog.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:47 pm

Ok, I'm showing my ignorance here. If DH4 is the DHC-8 400, what would the Viking DHC-4 be? What is the designation for thee DHC-6 400?
 
leghorn
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:44 pm

Is this a new order. I can't see it mentioned
https://www.mba.aero/acia-aero-capital- ... -aircraft/
3 Q400 for ACIA

more info:
https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases ... -in-dubai/
sees to be a LOI or MOU, not order

Note about ACIA opening office in Canada may suggest how the Q400 is going to muscle back in to the north american market as the big airlines are not buying directly.
Last edited by leghorn on Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:01 pm

leghorn wrote:
Is this a new order. I can't see it mentioned
https://www.mba.aero/acia-aero-capital- ... -aircraft/
3 Q400 for ACIA

more info:
https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases ... -in-dubai/
sees to be a LOI or MOU, not order

Note about ACIA opening office in Canada may suggest how the Q400 is going to muscle back in to the north american market as the big airlines are not buying directly.


Very nice to see the DHC-8-Q400 sell well. I wonder if the cost is reduced allowing for better deals. Either way, I anticipate some positive developments from them.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:10 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Ok, I'm showing my ignorance here. If DH4 is the DHC-8 400, what would the Viking DHC-4 be? What is the designation for thee DHC-6 400?


The IATA code for a Twin Otter is DHT.
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:17 am

NameOmitted wrote:
Ok, I'm showing my ignorance here. If DH4 is the DHC-8 400, what would the Viking DHC-4 be? What is the designation for thee DHC-6 400?


oh no, I'm also a little confused.

And can we still call it Q400?
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Other Manufacturers Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:49 am

MoKa777 wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Ok, I'm showing my ignorance here. If DH4 is the DHC-8 400, what would the Viking DHC-4 be? What is the designation for thee DHC-6 400?


oh no, I'm also a little confused.

And can we still call it Q400?

there are many different aircraft that used the DHC-X naming convention just like 7X7 A3XX series although most have long been out of production with two still remaining in production the DHC-6 Twin Otter and the DHC-8 Dash 8.

DHC-4 (DHC-4 Caribou)
DHC-6 (DHC-6 Twin Otter) is a different aircraft to the
DHC-8 (DHC-8 Dash 8 formally the Q series100,200,300 & 400 the Q series name that has been dropped and returned to the original De Havland Canada naming)

More information about the different DHC models via these links
https://dehavilland.com/en/history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada

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