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DCA350
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:36 pm

Disappointed if they drop the A339, but 50 A350s for 35 A380s is a fair trade.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:51 pm

chiad wrote:
A32xNeo's total sales now at 7178 frames.
Imagine ... if Airbus could ramp up to 100 deliveries per month it would still take over 5 years to work through the remaining backlog.


Incredible! The NEO is now outselling the MAX by close to 50% ( 7178 vs 4930 *wiki as of Oct 31 2019 ) what an incredible year for the Airbus, big congrats!
 
Amiga500
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:57 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Disappointed if they drop the A339, but 50 A350s for 35 A380s is a fair trade.


Airbus will be utterly ____ing delighted!

Sell an A380 at zero build profit and a bloody headache for lifetime support or an A350 with healthy build profit and economies of scale for ongoing support. No brainer really.
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:32 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Disappointed if they drop the A339, but 50 A350s for 35 A380s is a fair trade.


The cancellation will be for 39 A380-800s.

Geoff
 
FLLspotter747
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:44 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Disappointed if they drop the A339, but 50 A350s for 35 A380s is a fair trade.


The cancellation will be for 39 A380-800s.

Geoff


Correction, the cancellation is 39 A330-900neo's
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:57 pm

FLLspotter747 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Disappointed if they drop the A339, but 50 A350s for 35 A380s is a fair trade.


The cancellation will be for 39 A380-800s.

Geoff


Correction, the cancellation is 39 A330-900neo's


No the 40 A330-900s never got firmed.

Geoff
 
Eyad89
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:07 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:

The cancellation will be for 39 A380-800s.

Geoff


So, 39 A380s for 50 A350s?

It sounds EK might have ordered the A35K as well.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:17 pm

Lewton wrote:
With this Emirates order the A350 family is getting very close to 1000 net orders.

Interesting observation. As per the wiki webpage for orders and deliveries the A350 has now 963 orders.

So after the A 330 Airbus will soon have another widebody aircraft with > 1,000 orders.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:23 pm

Eyad89 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:

The cancellation will be for 39 A380-800s.

Geoff


So, 39 A380s for 50 A350s?

It sounds EK might have ordered the A35K as well.


What makes you say that? The Emirates press release make it clear the order is for 50 A350-900. There’s not even a mention of the option to switch orders to the -1000.
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xwb777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:42 pm

If anyone has noticed that the aircraft model on the table while signing the purchase order today btw Emirates and Airbus is an A330NEO and not an A350!
 
xwb777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:45 pm

At the end of the press conference held today morning btw Airbus and Emirates, a media reporter has asked Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed whether Flydubai will order the A320NEO to replace the B737MAX on order and in the fleet, the sheikh reply was “we could order”
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:52 pm

So what else are we expecting for the reminder of the show?

Air Senegal a220?
flynas confirm a320 options?
Flydubai shock and order a320s?

Anymore widebodies expected?

Any rumours doing the rounds for the last 3 days?
 
xwb777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:58 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
So what else are we expecting for the reminder of the show?

Air Senegal a220?
flynas confirm a320 options?
Flydubai shock and order a320s?

Anymore widebodies expected?

Any rumours doing the rounds for the last 3 days?


Flyadeal A320 order?
Royal Jordanian order?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:28 pm

Is there like a full list keeping track of all orders from each day for every aircraft?
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
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GE90man
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:12 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Is there like a full list keeping track of all orders from each day for every aircraft?

Flightglobal has a daily orders tracker.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:27 pm

GE90man wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Is there like a full list keeping track of all orders from each day for every aircraft?

Flightglobal has a daily orders tracker.



I think they counted the Air Arabia order twice. Once as 120 A320neo family order and a second time its components, 73 A320neo, 27 A21neo and 20 A321XLR.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 am

Ishrion wrote:
Is there like a full list keeping track of all orders from each day for every aircraft?


We were kind of hoping that you would take care of that for us.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:00 am

Airbus Order sorted by Event Day.

Day 1:
None

Day 2:
Air Arabia- 73 A320neos, 27 A321neos and 20 A321XLRs. NEW ORDER
Emirates- 50 A350. NEW ORDER
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Asiaflyer
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:37 am

xwb777 wrote:
At the end of the press conference held today morning btw Airbus and Emirates, a media reporter has asked Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed whether Flydubai will order the A320NEO to replace the B737MAX on order and in the fleet, the sheikh reply was “we could order”

Sounds just like a barganing tool against Boeing. It would be highly surprising if Boeing lost that order.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:39 am

Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:49 am

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:


I was quite surprised to read that they "only" have ordered 159 NEO's. They have around 150 more a/c to replace them 1 for 1 and yet they "only" order 12 at a time.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
smartplane
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:14 am

Polot wrote:
Reducing 777Xs puts EK in the same predicament that they faced with the A380- they don’t want to lose deposits with Boeing (and GE).

Deposits on other than first tranche will be pocket money. Also, with the delays, some deposits on earlier aircraft are likely now contestable.

What EK won't want to lose are the retrospective credits accruing on 150 units, which far outweighs the value of the deposits.
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 am

Dutchy wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:


I was quite surprised to read that they "only" have ordered 159 NEO's. They have around 150 more a/c to replace them 1 for 1 and yet they "only" order 12 at a time.


Easyjet has just taken the purchase rights right in time (for them, we do not know, if they are connected to delivery slots/times). In Europe, the time of fast and silly growth rates for the LCCs is now gone, the market is full, growth rates have slowed down, there are over-capacities and many small airlines are now in trouble. They will now order the jets, when they want to order them, to be delivered, when they will need them and not earlier. Many of the A320 ceo are still young and there is no need to replace them earlier as needed. The time has changed now, most airlines do not any more order hundreds of jets early/take options early/in advance, they take purchase rights and options when they have to, according the signed contracts/timelines e.g.
 
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OA940
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:18 am

Glad to see more A220s in the books!
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:26 am

ACCS300 wrote:
chiad wrote:
A32xNeo's total sales now at 7178 frames.
Imagine ... if Airbus could ramp up to 100 deliveries per month it would still take over 5 years to work through the remaining backlog.


Incredible! The NEO is now outselling the MAX by close to 50% ( 7178 vs 4930 *wiki as of Oct 31 2019 ) what an incredible year for the Airbus, big congrats!


To be fair, that would look slightly different without the grounding. I expect there are quite some prenegotiated orders waiting to be announced with the lifting of the grounding.

Anyway a remarkable achievement for Airbus and, quite frankly, for Europe.
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MrBren
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:40 am

Airbus press release on the Air Senegal A220s: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... a220s.html
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:42 am

OA940 wrote:
Glad to see more A220s in the books!


Some additional information: It is an already MOU, so not bad. Will be interesting to see, if and when it will be firmed; prior 31-Dec or later?
DUBAI, Nov 19 (Reuters) – Air Senegal signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for eight Airbus’ A220 aircraft at the Dubai Airshow on Tuesday.

Chief Executive Officer Ibrahima Kane said the planes would allow the airline to fly routes to Europe and West Africa when deliveries start in 2021. (Reporting by Ankit Ajmera in Dubai; editing by Jason Neely)


http://africazine.com/air-senegal-signs-mou-for-eight-airbus-a220-aircraft/
 
xwb777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:47 am

Sir Tim Clark is still open to the A330NEO, B787 and A350-1000. Saying the fleet planners saw that the A350 is more suitable than the A330NEO.

Sir Tim sees the A330NEO in Emirates fleet in 2023/2024 when the engine issues are over.

Quote: “So perhaps in 2023/24 it may enter the mix again, by which time Rolls will have matured the engine and hopefully it will be concern-free."

And

“ He adds: "That 20 [orders] are still out there. That could be [Boeing] 787s, could be A330neos, could be A350-1000s."

More can be found here: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-462380/
 
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scbriml
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:01 am

xwb777 wrote:
“ He adds: "That 20 [orders] are still out there. That could be [Boeing] 787s, could be A330neos, could be A350-1000s."


The possibility of Emirates ordering 20 more A350s (to take them to 70) would be amusingly ironic.

In fact it’s doubly ironic given they ordered A380s to replace the cancelled A350s, now they’re ordering A350s to replace cancelled A380s. :spin:
Last edited by scbriml on Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chiad
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:02 am

Somewhat confusing report, but it seems like Flynas has exercised purchasing options for some or all of 40 Airbus A320neos.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-emir ... SKBN1XT0ZT
 
Arion640
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:03 am

xwb777 wrote:
Sir Tim Clark is still open to the A330NEO, B787 and A350-1000. Saying the fleet planners saw that the A350 is more suitable than the A330NEO.

Sir Tim sees the A330NEO in Emirates fleet in 2023/2024 when the engine issues are over.

Quote: “So perhaps in 2023/24 it may enter the mix again, by which time Rolls will have matured the engine and hopefully it will be concern-free."

And

“ He adds: "That 20 [orders] are still out there. That could be [Boeing] 787s, could be A330neos, could be A350-1000s."

More can be found here: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-462380/


It would be difficult seeing Emirates taking just 20 787’s in IMHO.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:19 am

Ach, he is worried about both A & B thinking they aren't in a competitive bid.
 
Lewton
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 am

Dutchy wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:


I was quite surprised to read that they "only" have ordered 159 NEO's. They have around 150 more a/c to replace them 1 for 1 and yet they "only" order 12 at a time.


Easyjet is bracing itself for a market slowdown.
Furthermore, they can acquire cheap aircraft by buying failing carriers in the next years. :twisted:
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chiad
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:57 am

chiad wrote:
Somewhat confusing report, but it seems like Flynas has exercised purchasing options for some or all of 40 Airbus A320neos.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-emir ... SKBN1XT0ZT



Flynas signs order for 10 Airbus A321XLR jets
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-emir ... SKBN1XT1B1
 
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keesje
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:57 am

scbriml wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
“ He adds: "That 20 [orders] are still out there. That could be [Boeing] 787s, could be A330neos, could be A350-1000s."


The possibility of Emirates ordering 20 more A350s (to take them to 70) would be amusingly ironic.

In fact it’s doubly ironic given they ordered A380s to replace the cancelled A350s, now they’re ordering A350s to replace cancelled A380s. :spin:



Emirates can & will change their orders unpunsihed, if they feel the situation changed.
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MrBren
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:04 am

Airbus press release on the flynas A321s order: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... 1xlrs.html
 
LifelinerOne
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:17 am

This flynas order was previously announced as a MOU during the Paris Air Show.
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scbriml
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:58 am

LifelinerOne wrote:
This flynas order was previously announced as a MOU during the Paris Air Show.


Yes, but now it's firm and added to the backlog.
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T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:02 pm

LifelinerOne wrote:
This flynas order was previously announced as a MOU during the Paris Air Show.

Good to see, that the MOU are firmed.

Interesting to see, Airbus has till now only collected firm orders and one MOU (for the 8x A220-300).

Regular MOU and LOI are seen and only few firm orders on Airshows, so the Airbus sales teams have done an excellent and fast job in the weeks before this Airshow.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:05 pm

T4thH wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:


I was quite surprised to read that they "only" have ordered 159 NEO's. They have around 150 more a/c to replace them 1 for 1 and yet they "only" order 12 at a time.


Easyjet has just taken the purchase rights right in time (for them, we do not know, if they are connected to delivery slots/times). In Europe, the time of fast and silly growth rates for the LCCs is now gone, the market is full, growth rates have slowed down, there are over-capacities and many small airlines are now in trouble. They will now order the jets, when they want to order them, to be delivered, when they will need them and not earlier. Many of the A320 ceo are still young and there is no need to replace them earlier as needed. The time has changed now, most airlines do not any more order hundreds of jets early/take options early/in advance, they take purchase rights and options when they have to, according the signed contracts/timelines e.g.



Wizz air would disagree. They are growing at roughly 20% each year (CEO said he would actually like to grow faster at around 25% but does not have aircraft available). They also have a mammoth order of roughly 260 aircraft which is the largest backlog in Europe. So I would disagree the market is full, the market is still open it’s just the smaller less efficient carriers can’t keep up.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:09 pm

scbriml wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
“ He adds: "That 20 [orders] are still out there. That could be [Boeing] 787s, could be A330neos, could be A350-1000s."


The possibility of Emirates ordering 20 more A350s (to take them to 70) would be amusingly ironic.

In fact it’s doubly ironic given they ordered A380s to replace the cancelled A350s, now they’re ordering A350s to replace cancelled A380s.


Haha! Agreed!

It seems everything old is new again with EK...
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morrisond
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 pm

T4thH wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
This flynas order was previously announced as a MOU during the Paris Air Show.

Good to see, that the MOU are firmed.

Interesting to see, Airbus has till now only collected firm orders and one MOU (for the 8x A220-300).

Regular MOU and LOI are seen and only few firm orders on Airshows, so the Airbus sales teams have done an excellent and fast job in the weeks before this Airshow.



Other than Counting twice on double announcements. So the Flynas and EK orders were LOI's or MOU's before but counted in the Air show sales totals - now they are firmed and get counted again?

Neither the Flynas or EK order should be counted as a sale at this show as they were already counted before - in fact they should be recording a reduction of 20 frames for EK in Air show math at this show.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:18 pm

Arion640 wrote:
It would be difficult seeing Emirates taking just 20 787’s in IMHO.


I agree if that is all they take.

I read this 20 as the balance of their original order for 70 x A350, minus the 50 firmed yesterday. A 787 order could be for those 20 plus additional swapped from the 778/9 order.
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:23 pm

MCTSET wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

I was quite surprised to read that they "only" have ordered 159 NEO's. They have around 150 more a/c to replace them 1 for 1 and yet they "only" order 12 at a time.


Easyjet has just taken the purchase rights right in time (for them, we do not know, if they are connected to delivery slots/times). In Europe, the time of fast and silly growth rates for the LCCs is now gone, the market is full, growth rates have slowed down, there are over-capacities and many small airlines are now in trouble. They will now order the jets, when they want to order them, to be delivered, when they will need them and not earlier. Many of the A320 ceo are still young and there is no need to replace them earlier as needed. The time has changed now, most airlines do not any more order hundreds of jets early/take options early/in advance, they take purchase rights and options when they have to, according the signed contracts/timelines e.g.



Wizz air would disagree. They are growing at roughly 20% each year (CEO said he would actually like to grow faster at around 25% but does not have aircraft available). They also have a mammoth order of roughly 260 aircraft which is the largest backlog in Europe. So I would disagree the market is full, the market is still open it’s just the smaller less efficient carriers can’t keep up.


Please note, also Wizz has had several drawbacks already, they have tried to start on several Eastern Europe markets and hat failed miserably after short time.
Ukraine, Bulgaria and Romania; all these subsidiaries have failed or never started.
And no, the market is full, and many of the small national airlines are collapsing. And of course someone else has to get the slots. So the market is not growing in Europe (or let us say, too slow), Some airlines will survive and grow, other will just extinct. Wizz is on the site of the survivors.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:25 pm

morrisond wrote:
T4thH wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
This flynas order was previously announced as a MOU during the Paris Air Show.

Good to see, that the MOU are firmed.

Interesting to see, Airbus has till now only collected firm orders and one MOU (for the 8x A220-300).

Regular MOU and LOI are seen and only few firm orders on Airshows, so the Airbus sales teams have done an excellent and fast job in the weeks before this Airshow.



Other than Counting twice on double announcements. So the Flynas and EK orders were LOI's or MOU's before but counted in the Air show sales totals - now they are firmed and get counted again?

Neither the Flynas or EK order should be counted as a sale at this show as they were already counted before - in fact they should be recording a reduction of 20 frames for EK in Air show math at this show.


MOU’s aren’t firm orders so how have you come to that conclusion?

At the end of the day, a firm order is a very different thing and should be the only data captured.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:26 pm

morrisond wrote:
Other than Counting twice on double announcements. So the Flynas and EK orders were LOI's or MOU's before but counted in the Air show sales totals - now they are firmed and get counted again?

Neither the Flynas or EK order should be counted as a sale at this show as they were already counted before - in fact they should be recording a reduction of 20 frames for EK in Air show math at this show.


Counted twice by whom? EK's order is new and different to the intent they announced before (which hadn't been "counted" by Airbus). Ditto Flynas. The only counting that matters is what's added to the order book and neither of these orders were before now.

Are you moaning at Boeing for announcing orders at the show that had already been booked and counted? You seem to be mistaking publicity (announcing LOIs or MOUs) for business (booking firm orders).
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T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:34 pm

morrisond wrote:
T4thH wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
This flynas order was previously announced as a MOU during the Paris Air Show.

Good to see, that the MOU are firmed.

Interesting to see, Airbus has till now only collected firm orders and one MOU (for the 8x A220-300).

Regular MOU and LOI are seen and only few firm orders on Airshows, so the Airbus sales teams have done an excellent and fast job in the weeks before this Airshow.



Other than Counting twice on double announcements. So the Flynas and EK orders were LOI's or MOU's before but counted in the Air show sales totals - now they are firmed and get counted again?

Neither the Flynas or EK order should be counted as a sale at this show as they were already counted before - in fact they should be recording a reduction of 20 frames for EK in Air show math at this show.


Yes, per airshow, this is correct. It is possible, something is counted more than once on different airshows.And everyone is aware, many of the LOI and few of the MOU, announced on an Airshow will be never firmed.

But please note, at least there is only one point, when it is really counted; This is when the firm order is official published by Boeing/Airbus e.g. in the official once monthly published order books.
At that moment an order ends up in the official backlog.
And all of these also official stated as firmed orders by Airbus we will see in the official Order book (Excel sheet) for Nov-2019.

You can find the official order book for Airbus as example here: The downloads for the Excel sheets are in the second half, for every month one link for 2019.
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html
 
morrisond
Posts: 3497
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:40 pm

T4thH wrote:
morrisond wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Good to see, that the MOU are firmed.

Interesting to see, Airbus has till now only collected firm orders and one MOU (for the 8x A220-300).

Regular MOU and LOI are seen and only few firm orders on Airshows, so the Airbus sales teams have done an excellent and fast job in the weeks before this Airshow.



Other than Counting twice on double announcements. So the Flynas and EK orders were LOI's or MOU's before but counted in the Air show sales totals - now they are firmed and get counted again?

Neither the Flynas or EK order should be counted as a sale at this show as they were already counted before - in fact they should be recording a reduction of 20 frames for EK in Air show math at this show.


Yes, per airshow, this is correct. It is possible, something is counted more than once on different airshows.And everyone is aware, many of the LOI and few of the MOU, announced on an Airshow will be never firmed.

But please note, at least there is only one point, when it is really counted; This is when the firm order is official published by Boeing/Airbus e.g. in the official once monthly published order books.
At that moment an order ends up in the official backlog.
And all of these also official stated as firmed orders by Airbus we will see in the official Order book (Excel sheet) for Nov-2019.

You can find the official order book for Airbus as example here: The downloads for the Excel sheets are in the second half, for every month one link for 2019.
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html


I totally understand that. However the common refrain from most after an airshow is that MOU's and LOI's will be firmed so they should be counted. This one airshow is highly unusual that most of the Airbus orders are firm but a lot were previously announced as MOI's or LOI's.

The standard of what counts seems to depend purely on the results of that airshow and who is counting.
 
AIRT0M
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:54 am

Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Airbus Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:59 pm

morrisond wrote:

The standard of what counts seems to depend purely on the results of that airshow and who is counting.


Exactly. Isn't it remarkable, that when there are MOUs and LOIs for Airbus, they don't count as orders. But when there are firm orders for Airbus, they don't count because (suddenly) the MOUs and LOIs were orders after all?

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