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Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:16 am

Welcome to the dedicated thread for Boeing Orders and announcements plus any general discussion for the Dubai Air Show 2019.

As per other airshow threads please keep on topic and keep with in the rules. Please add your comments below
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Ishrion
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:22 am

So just to clarify, it starts today, Dubai time. Were there any orders on the first day last time?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:29 am

Probably won’t be anything out until Monday.
 
nonrevelite
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:55 am

I am in town for the Airshow. Historically, big orders here are announced here on Sunday. Sunday is the Monday of the Middle East. I was present during the 777X launch on a Sunday back in 2015. Disappointed it wasn’t able to fly in time to make the show this year.

Very lackluster Boeing display this year compared to Airbus; however both the 787-9 and 330-900 will be in the flying displaying; should be a good matchup!!
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andrej
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:58 am

As it is a normal business day here, it is quite possible for a locally / regionally based airline to announce an order.
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:40 am

Live from DAS19 meetings.
Boeing has announced an order from Binan Bangladesh at the #DAS19. However, the order was on the books in 2019 October and customer name now revealed.

https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/status/1196024839565389824
 
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scbriml
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:52 am

T4thH wrote:
Live from DAS19 meetings.
Boeing has announced an order from Binan Bangladesh at the #DAS19. However, the order was on the books in 2019 October and customer name now revealed.

https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/status/1196024839565389824


Boeing's confirmation - 2 x 787-9 booked in October.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-11-17 ... liner-Jets
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LifelinerOne
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:51 pm

I read somewhere a while ago that the BIMAN B787-9s were originally ordered by Hainan Airlines.
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OmerMaz
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:17 pm

LifelinerOne wrote:
I read somewhere a while ago that the BIMAN B787-9s were originally ordered by Hainan Airlines.


They'll be powered by GE, unfortunatley I don't find the link I that contained that information.

Wouldn't be too much to operate 2 engine types for the same model in such a small airline?
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:34 pm

OmerMaz wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
I read somewhere a while ago that the BIMAN B787-9s were originally ordered by Hainan Airlines.


They'll be powered by GE, unfortunatley I don't find the link I that contained that information.

Wouldn't be too much to operate 2 engine types for the same model in such a small airline?

If they have taken over the order from Hainan airlines, where perhaps the GE engines also part of this order?

I would still not order the Trent 1000 for the B787, when these are foreseen to be operated in areas with high air pollution. There is no more worse air polluted region in the world, than northern India, followed by the regions directly next to them (and this is Bangladesh). RR has performed many upgrades and the last engine versions have less issues with corrosion by the pollution, but they are still not there, where they have to be. I would also order the GE.
 
MoonC
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:34 pm

One of them is the "Dreams Take Flight" jet actually in DWC. Reg. N1015B
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:48 pm

MoonC wrote:
One of them is the "Dreams Take Flight" jet actually in DWC. Reg. N1015B

Oh nice, in this case, Binan can just it home from the Dubai Airshow. It is already there. :rotfl:
 
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PM
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 pm

OmerMaz wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
I read somewhere a while ago that the BIMAN B787-9s were originally ordered by Hainan Airlines.


They'll be powered by GE, unfortunatley I don't find the link I that contained that information.

Wouldn't be too much to operate 2 engine types for the same model in such a small airline?

Of course, they are GE. Their existing -8s are GE. Why would they even consider RR?
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:13 pm

PM wrote:
OmerMaz wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
I read somewhere a while ago that the BIMAN B787-9s were originally ordered by Hainan Airlines.


They'll be powered by GE, unfortunatley I don't find the link I that contained that information.

Wouldn't be too much to operate 2 engine types for the same model in such a small airline?

Of course, they are GE. Their existing -8s are GE. Why would they even consider RR?



Thanks for clarifying, I don't know why I thought they have RR.
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:43 am

Seems day 2 will be a little bit more busy. Press conferences announced on Dubai Airshow on day 2:
Etihad Airways
Emirates
Boeing
Airbus
Dehaviland
AerCap

and others till not announced.
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1196279814765850624
 
xwb777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:55 am

EtihadAirways confirms that all 25 B777X are still on order.
Source: https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 98112?s=21
 
chiad
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:52 am

xwb777 wrote:
EtihadAirways confirms that all 25 B777X are still on order.
Source: https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 98112?s=21


Hmm .. what a puzzling thing to confirm?!?
Did they previously announce a partial cancellation?
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:18 am

chiad wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
EtihadAirways confirms that all 25 B777X are still on order.
Source: https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 98112?s=21


Hmm .. what a puzzling thing to confirm?!?
Did they previously announce a partial cancellation?


OK....we do not cancel the 77X orders....and for this they have announced a press conference? Are they joking? :banghead:

Emirates press conference is now starting.

Seems day 2 will be a little bit more busy. Press conferences announced on Dubai Airshow on day 2:
Etihad Airways-> Result: we do not cancel the 77X orders during this airshow.
Emirates
Boeing
Airbus
Dehaviland
AerCap
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:45 am

The Etihad press conference was not for the 777X deal not being cancelled, that was for 787 Greenliner platform to reduce emissions using an Etihad 787. The 777X comment was made as a side remark.

And with Etihads announcement earlier this year that they would only take delivery of 5 777-9 over the next couple of years it was incorrectly assumed that the other 20 on order were completely cancelled.
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:02 am

Momo1435 wrote:
The Etihad press conference was not for the 777X deal not being cancelled, that was for 787 Greenliner platform to reduce emissions using an Etihad 787. The 777X comment was made as a side remark.

And with Etihads announcement earlier this year that they would only take delivery of 5 777-9 over the next couple of years it was incorrectly assumed that the other 20 on order were completely cancelled.


Yes, you are right of course. But please note, there was a real big room full of reporters and than only such an announcement. The reporters had to decide, if they went to Ethihad or Emirates PC, when the Ethihad PC ended, the Emirates PC room was already full.

Pretty sure, many would have preferred just a small press announcement by Ethihad.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:02 am

Momo1435 wrote:
The Etihad press conference was not for the 777X deal not being cancelled, that was for 787 Greenliner platform to reduce emissions using an Etihad 787. The 777X comment was made as a side remark.

And with Etihads announcement earlier this year that they would only take delivery of 5 777-9 over the next couple of years it was incorrectly assumed that the other 20 on order were completely cancelled.



Are you suggesting the meeja got the wrong end of the stick?

No, get away with that crazy talk! :lol:
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:13 am

The Etihad 777-8/9 order was actually under pressure. There were rumors of a reduction to 6 777-9 only. So I assume that it was a comforting announcement for Boeing, that Etihad would keep all the firm orders.
 
xwb777
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am

Turkey’s Sun Express orders 10 B737MAX.
 
 
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:52 am

Another order by a big operator - nice!
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:55 pm

T4thH wrote:
Seems day 2 will be a little bit more busy. Press conferences announced on Dubai Airshow on day 2:
Etihad Airways
Emirates
Boeing
Airbus]
Dehaviland
AerCap

and others till not announced.
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1196279814765850624


OK, of the official today press release listing, AerCap Lessor is missing....Is it? No it is not, we have just missed it.
https://twitter.com/AerCapNV/status/1196418647847317504
AerCap and @EGYPTAIR reach agreement on the leasing of 2 additional #Boeing 787-9 aircraft and the conversion of 7 previously executed leases for #Airbus neo aircraft. The announcement was made at the Dubai Airshow. Read press releases here http://ow.ly/E2di50xdF85

https://www.aercap.com/media/news/aercap-and-egyptair-reach-agreement-on-the-leasing-of-2-additional-boeing-787-9-aircraft/
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:01 pm

First significant MAX order since IAG?
@DadCelo
 
T4thH
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:33 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
First significant MAX order since IAG?

The IAG order is still only a LOI (so: we are interested in some birds...) not even a MOU (let us discuss our potential order, who will deliver the engines, cabin outfit, breaks e.g.), if I remember correctly. A LOI is just to show interest, this is still nothing. Of course, a LOI is the first step to a firm order.

So I would call this the first significant order for the MAX since start of grounding.

And as the 2x B787 order by Biman was already stated in Boeing order books in Oct-2019 as firmed by undisclosed and as now only the "undisclosed" has been officially named on this Dubai Airshow, it is not even to be counted as order on this Airshow.

So this is even the first Boeing order on this airshow.

It is still not a great airshow for Boeing. Let us hope for the expected "SpiceJet" MAX order on this airshow.
Else I do not expect more orders (or significant orders) for Boeing.
But I expect more orders for Embraer, Airbus, DeHavilland and ATR.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Yeah I’m not expecting much at all from Boeing got the rest of the year. I think they are just really do to get out of this decade.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 pm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/airbus-boo ... lista_pos3

Has Etihad cancelled some 20 787?

Quote: In a separate blow to the U.S. manufacturer, Abu Dhabi’s Etihad Airways said earlier Monday that it was planning to take 20 fewer aircraft from Boeing than it had counted on. Etihad has been through its own strategy overhaul and fleet review after suffering losses in the past three years amid oil-price volatility, bad investments and increased competition.

Etihad Chief Executive Tony Douglas said the carrier plans to have a fleet of only 51 787s by 2023, from 36 now. Etihad previously canceled the majority of its own backlog for Airbus’s A350s and deferred deliveries of the remainder.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:05 pm

The airshow is not finished yet, there are 3 more days to announce more orders, like this potential order.

SpiceJet is talking with Boeing at the show about a MAX top up order.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... dubai-show
 
DCA350
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:41 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/airbus-books-bittersweet-16-billion-deal-with-emirates-11574074430?mod=hp_lista_pos3

Has Etihad cancelled some 20 787?

Quote: In a separate blow to the U.S. manufacturer, Abu Dhabi’s Etihad Airways said earlier Monday that it was planning to take 20 fewer aircraft from Boeing than it had counted on. Etihad has been through its own strategy overhaul and fleet review after suffering losses in the past three years amid oil-price volatility, bad investments and increased competition.

Etihad Chief Executive Tony Douglas said the carrier plans to have a fleet of only 51 787s by 2023, from 36 now. Etihad previously canceled the majority of its own backlog for Airbus’s A350s and deferred deliveries of the remainder.


Interesting, so I guess this was the trade off.. Keep the 777X but take less 787s. I'm sure BA would take this trade any day of the week as it will be a lot easier to sell those 787 slots than 777Xs
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:52 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Yeah I’m not expecting much at all from Boeing got the rest of the year. I think they are just really do to get out of this decade.


Goodness, I trust autocorrect on this phone far too much. Apologies.
 
AvFanNJ
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:16 pm

Boeing is having a dreadful year, thanks mainly I think to the MAX fiasco. Reputational damage must at this point be a factor in its slow sales, along with declining interest in widebodies. It was a self inflicted wound for sure but I'm hoping it shakes off the grip of overly cost and profit executives from full control of the company and gives much of it back to the engineering side and those more concerned with safety and quality.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:38 pm

AvFanNJ wrote:
Boeing is having a dreadful year, thanks mainly I think to the MAX fiasco.


Yeah, that is one side of it.

Another is the market is definitely slowing on widebodies.
The 787 is being squeezed harder than I expected by A339 and A359. Upping the build rate took prices down, but that rate is looking unsustainable right now.
The 777X is also struggling to establish itself as a compelling aircraft relative to the A359 and A35k.

Would an A350-1000ULR be the death knell of the 777-9? With the certification of 777X now looking significantly more arduous and time consuming than it was 12 months ago - Boeing really have their work cut out on both ends of their product stack.

How many frames does a widebody program need to reach economies of scale in build and MRO?
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:50 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
AvFanNJ wrote:
Boeing is having a dreadful year, thanks mainly I think to the MAX fiasco.


Yeah, that is one side of it.

Another is the market is definitely slowing on widebodies.
The 787 is being squeezed harder than I expected by A339 and A359. Upping the build rate took prices down, but that rate is looking unsustainable right now.
The 777X is also struggling to establish itself as a compelling aircraft relative to the A359 and A35k.

Would an A350-1000ULR be the death knell of the 777-9? With the certification of 777X now looking significantly more arduous and time consuming than it was 12 months ago - Boeing really have their work cut out on both ends of their product stack.

How many frames does a widebody program need to reach economies of scale in build and MRO?


The A35K and 787-10.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:18 pm

RickNRoll wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
AvFanNJ wrote:
Boeing is having a dreadful year, thanks mainly I think to the MAX fiasco.


Yeah, that is one side of it.

Another is the market is definitely slowing on widebodies.
The 787 is being squeezed harder than I expected by A339 and A359. Upping the build rate took prices down, but that rate is looking unsustainable right now.
The 777X is also struggling to establish itself as a compelling aircraft relative to the A359 and A35k.

Would an A350-1000ULR be the death knell of the 777-9? With the certification of 777X now looking significantly more arduous and time consuming than it was 12 months ago - Boeing really have their work cut out on both ends of their product stack.

How many frames does a widebody program need to reach economies of scale in build and MRO?


The A35K and 787-10.


I would think the 787-10 has too short legs to compete with the 779. The size difference is also quite significant.

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Stitch
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:34 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
I would think the 787-10 has too short legs to compete with the 779.


You do see 777-300ERs being used on shorter stage lengths in Asia and the Middle East so there are likely situations where a 787-10's legs would be sufficiently long enough.
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:57 pm

Any rumours for Boeing to cover over the remaining 3 days? What else is left that we can expect?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:08 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
Any rumours for Boeing to cover over the remaining 3 days? What else is left that we can expect?


50 787 order from Emirates? Would go possibly hand in hand with a reduction of the 777-8/9 order.
 
Opus99
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:33 pm

Apparently a nice spice jet deal might be coming this week
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:43 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Apparently a nice spice jet deal might be coming this week


Any ideas how many unfilled orders/options do Spicejet currently have?

EDIT: Wikipedia says 13 delivered, 193 unfilled.

So any options held i suppose is the question, or could this be straight up new order?
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:56 pm

DCA350 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/airbus-books-bittersweet-16-billion-deal-with-emirates-11574074430?mod=hp_lista_pos3

Has Etihad cancelled some 20 787?

Quote: In a separate blow to the U.S. manufacturer, Abu Dhabi’s Etihad Airways said earlier Monday that it was planning to take 20 fewer aircraft from Boeing than it had counted on. Etihad has been through its own strategy overhaul and fleet review after suffering losses in the past three years amid oil-price volatility, bad investments and increased competition.

Etihad Chief Executive Tony Douglas said the carrier plans to have a fleet of only 51 787s by 2023, from 36 now. Etihad previously canceled the majority of its own backlog for Airbus’s A350s and deferred deliveries of the remainder.


Interesting, so I guess this was the trade off.. Keep the 777X but take less 787s. I'm sure BA would take this trade any day of the week as it will be a lot easier to sell those 787 slots than 777Xs


BA ordered 20 777-9 earlier this year, so it would only be a trade if they had gone the other way? Don't think this is linked at all. Though I agree Boeing can probably find customers for 20 787 easier than 20 777X.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:06 pm

In this case, "BA" stands for the NYSE symbol for Boeing, not British Airways. :biggrin:
 
426Shadow
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:35 pm

This is supposed to be a Boeing orders topic but Airbus is being mentioned more than anything and most of the posts aren't even about orders. If i went to the Airbus topic and did the same all hell would break loose. Aren't the mods supposed to keep it on topic?
We are all just fanboys, our opinions don't make or break businesses.
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:43 pm

Stitch wrote:
In this case, "BA" stands for the NYSE symbol for Boeing, not British Airways.


Ahhh, that's mildly confusing, though (just googled it) Airbus's equivalent stock market code is "AIR" which could be even more ambiguous.

I'd always assumed on here it was 2 letter IATA codes for airlines, and full names for Boeing and Airbus.
 
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qf789
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:09 am

426Shadow wrote:
This is supposed to be a Boeing orders topic but Airbus is being mentioned more than anything and most of the posts aren't even about orders. If i went to the Airbus topic and did the same all hell would break loose. Aren't the mods supposed to keep it on topic?


It would make our job easier if you reported the offending posts. The mods are all volunteers and we don’t read every thread so in future if you want us to act quickly report the posts.
Forum Moderator
 
ukoverlander
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:31 am

"This is supposed to be a Boeing orders topic but Airbus is being mentioned more than anything and most of the posts aren't even about orders. If i went to the Airbus topic and did the same all hell would break loose. Aren't the mods supposed to keep it on topic?"

Perhaps if there were a few Boeing orders to comment on to break the constant chirping of crickets..... people will always try to fill the long pauses :duck: :duck: :duck:
 
AvFanNJ
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:48 am

ukoverlander wrote:
"This is supposed to be a Boeing orders topic but Airbus is being mentioned more than anything and most of the posts aren't even about orders. If i went to the Airbus topic and did the same all hell would break loose. Aren't the mods supposed to keep it on topic?"

Perhaps if there were a few Boeing orders to comment on to break the constant chirping of crickets..... people will always try to fill the long pauses :duck: :duck: :duck:

We understand this will likely be a dismal year for Boeing for the reasons already cited but the poster has a point. Airbus comments should be reserved for that company's specific order thread. Make's sense, right?
 
juliuswong
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Re: Dubai Air Show 2019: Boeing Orders, announcements and discussion thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:20 am

Boeing order sorted by Event Day:

Day 1:
CIAF Leasing- 3 Boeing Embraer 190. NEW ORDER
Biman Bangladesh Airlines- 2 B787-9. PREVIOUSLY UFO

Day 2:
SunExpress- 10 B737 Max 8. NEW ORDER (CONVERSION OF OPTIONS)
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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos