Avatar Airlines (formerly Family Airlines) start up tries again..

LAXintl · Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 pm

27 years later and they are still trying...

Nevada based Avatar Airlines is back at the DOT door step seeking air carrier certificate to launch low cost 747 service.
Carrier says it seeks to initially link markets LAX, LAS, JFK and MIA using high density (581 seats mentioned) 747-400 aircraft. They eventually seek to grow 747 fleets including -8 variants and link additional large metro areas such as Chicago, Orlando, Dallas, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Honolulu.

2019-0164-0001

=

Lets not forget the little detail that the founder has a checkered history including conviction for securities fraud.

Below link to proposed $300mil private placement prospectus
https://avatarairlines.com/wp-content/u ... 111819.pdf

TWA772LR · Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:11 am

Ok I'll bite...

Will Avatar and Baltia merge? :duck:

UPlog · Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:14 am

Sure is persistent. Essentially the same concept since Family days in 1990.

Wonder how many people he will bilk money from?

rnav2dlrey · Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:46 am

Avatar will capture some of that revenue by selling ad space to help ensure that its ticket prices remain ultralow, even if Avatar’s expenses rise. Tempered only by FCC safety regulations and requirements, nothing will be sacred. Anything that you see or touch will be available for purchase. Management even envisions patrons using the restroom and being “greeted” by a named brand bathroom tissue company when they look inside the lid of the lavatory bowl. The outside of the aircraft may be adorned by e.g., Pepsi, Google or any other named brand on a massive aircraft “wrap.” Tray tables and overhead bins will be virtual billboards in the sky.

rnav2dlrey · Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:50 am

rnav2dlrey wrote:
Avatar will capture some of that revenue by selling ad space to help ensure that its ticket prices remain ultralow, even if Avatar’s expenses rise. Tempered only by FCC safety regulations and requirements, nothing will be sacred. Anything that you see or touch will be available for purchase. Management even envisions patrons using the restroom and being “greeted” by a named brand bathroom tissue company when they look inside the lid of the lavatory bowl. The outside of the aircraft may be adorned by e.g., Pepsi, Google or any other named brand on a massive aircraft “wrap.” Tray tables and overhead bins will be virtual billboards in the sky.

Management believes once Avatar commences flight operations, an IPO within 3-5 years will fund the purchase of 30 new Boeing 747-8s, which are larger and more fuel-efficient than the 400s. Avatar is presently in discussions with Boeing Commercial regarding the matter.

if i send a tweet to @boeingairplanes, am i "presently in discussions" with BCA?

stl07 · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:08 am

Wasn't this the guy that stole everybody's money on a kickstarted campaign

UPlog · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:21 am

Besides being a convicted felon, he also unsuccessfully for the U.S. Senate seat. Real con man..

F27500 · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:25 am

.. Good LORT ! .. OK well, this'll be fun to watch (again!)

Jetsouth · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:28 am

They say, according to their prospectus, that cramming 581 passengers into a 747 is going to give them a "lots of room feeling"?

ikolkyo · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:29 am

Can’t wait to see that 30 747-8I order.........

enilria · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:52 am

LAXintl wrote:
27 years later and they are still trying...

Nevada based Avatar Airlines is back at the DOT door step seeking air carrier certificate to launch low cost 747 service.
Carrier says it seeks to initially link markets LAX, LAS, JFK and MIA using high density (581 seats mentioned) 747-400 aircraft. They eventually seek to grow 747 fleets including -8 variants and link additional large metro areas such as Chicago, Orlando, Dallas, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Honolulu.

2019-0164-0001

=

Lets not forget the little detail that the founder has a checkered history including conviction for securities fraud.

Below link to proposed $300mil private placement prospectus
https://avatarairlines.com/wp-content/u ... 111819.pdf

Clearly a desire to operate US made aircraft is driving them away from the obvious A380 opportunity!

OzarkD9S · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:55 am

HA HA HA HA HA. Next stupid idea....?

Veigar · Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:55 am

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
27 years later and they are still trying...

Nevada based Avatar Airlines is back at the DOT door step seeking air carrier certificate to launch low cost 747 service.
Carrier says it seeks to initially link markets LAX, LAS, JFK and MIA using high density (581 seats mentioned) 747-400 aircraft. They eventually seek to grow 747 fleets including -8 variants and link additional large metro areas such as Chicago, Orlando, Dallas, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Honolulu.

2019-0164-0001

=

Lets not forget the little detail that the founder has a checkered history including conviction for securities fraud.

Below link to proposed $300mil private placement prospectus
https://avatarairlines.com/wp-content/u ... 111819.pdf

Clearly a desire to operate US made aircraft is driving them away from the obvious A380 opportunity!

Can LAS and MIA handle A380 though?

KLMatSJC · Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:09 am

How much money are they trying to scam people out of this round?

F9Animal · Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:26 am

Everything Barry Michael's has touched has gone to poo. He even tried doing a medical clinic at last check. The guy has been to prison for the first embezzlement try with Family Airlines.

Sadly, he will con people out of their money again. He just gets smarter with his cons as he goes. I remember when they decided to change from Family Airlines to Avatar!!! All because of the movie. Yeah, the thought process is a bit flawed.

I'm sure they will change the name again. Maybe the next airline will be Toy Story 4?

Thankfully there is a local reporter that monitors him real closely.

enilria · Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:32 pm

Veigar wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
27 years later and they are still trying...

Nevada based Avatar Airlines is back at the DOT door step seeking air carrier certificate to launch low cost 747 service.
Carrier says it seeks to initially link markets LAX, LAS, JFK and MIA using high density (581 seats mentioned) 747-400 aircraft. They eventually seek to grow 747 fleets including -8 variants and link additional large metro areas such as Chicago, Orlando, Dallas, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Honolulu.

2019-0164-0001

=

Lets not forget the little detail that the founder has a checkered history including conviction for securities fraud.

Below link to proposed $300mil private placement prospectus
https://avatarairlines.com/wp-content/u ... 111819.pdf

Clearly a desire to operate US made aircraft is driving them away from the obvious A380 opportunity!

Can LAS and MIA handle A380 though?

That's clearly the biggest obstacle. /s

RWA380 · Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:24 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
Avatar will capture some of that revenue by selling ad space to help ensure that its ticket prices remain ultralow, even if Avatar’s expenses rise. Tempered only by FCC safety regulations and requirements, nothing will be sacred. Anything that you see or touch will be available for purchase. Management even envisions patrons using the restroom and being “greeted” by a named brand bathroom tissue company when they look inside the lid of the lavatory bowl. The outside of the aircraft may be adorned by e.g., Pepsi, Google or any other named brand on a massive aircraft “wrap.” Tray tables and overhead bins will be virtual billboards in the sky.

Avatar, may be the worst name & should say it all about the company. I understand this IS the way things are going, if you've flown NK they have advertising (or at least did) on the overhead bin lids. The 744 sure has a lot of exterior advertising space, only missed by the A-380, but some of these airports are not likely A-380 capable. If it means I can get name brand tissue, I'd still never fly them & bring my own. LOL! Not like any airline uses anything but 1 ply, chaffe master brand.

northstardc4m · Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:10 pm

Veigar wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
27 years later and they are still trying...

Nevada based Avatar Airlines is back at the DOT door step seeking air carrier certificate to launch low cost 747 service.
Carrier says it seeks to initially link markets LAX, LAS, JFK and MIA using high density (581 seats mentioned) 747-400 aircraft. They eventually seek to grow 747 fleets including -8 variants and link additional large metro areas such as Chicago, Orlando, Dallas, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Honolulu.

2019-0164-0001

=

Lets not forget the little detail that the founder has a checkered history including conviction for securities fraud.

Below link to proposed $300mil private placement prospectus
https://avatarairlines.com/wp-content/u ... 111819.pdf

Clearly a desire to operate US made aircraft is driving them away from the obvious A380 opportunity!

Can LAS and MIA handle A380 though?

Considering 2 airlines fly/flew a380s to MIA pretty good indicator it can handle them.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Murdoughnut · Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:20 pm

UPlog wrote:
Besides being a convicted felon, he also unsuccessfully for the U.S. Senate seat. Real con man..

Nah, a real con man would have won the Senate seat.

ODwyerPW · Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:51 pm

of all the impediments to my own success.... clearly my possession of conscience is foremost.
if I would just master the skill of putting of my own greed, ego and wants ahead of everyone and everything else.

i could augment his air service by launching a feeder airline with a fleet of Embraer ERJ-135LR arranged in 1+1 16pax shuttle config. it doesn't have to be economical. it just has to different enough to liberate a few souls of capital during 1 or 2 rounds of funding. i don't have to succeed in order to succeed... .wink... wink.... nudge.....nudge....

anyway, while we are toying around with the idea of sponsorships and fuselage wraps.. allow me to submit an example:RustEze Medicated Bumper Ointment

This is the RustEze Racing Centre Wrap... does wonders for old Fillmore... think what it could do for an Avatar 747!

It will even work for Cargo planes.

GripenFan · Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:21 pm

On page 11 of the prospectus:

In order to increase aircraft utilization and decrease passenger loading time and with the cooperation of the airports served, Avatar intends to build its own passenger terminals.

This alone should make anyone with even the most basic knowledge of the industry run away. Where are they going to the space to build their own terminals? It's not like most of the airports they purportedly wan to serve have acres of open space. Oh, and there's that little matter of cost, etc.

Nonrevhell · Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:10 pm

They are like a bad chronic disease that keeps coming back. Someone is trying to make a buck out of this scam.

DarkSnowyNight · Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:29 pm

Hmmmm. . .

It would be interesting to see where one can find a 748i with a $6750/hr fuel cost...

Seabear · Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:40 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Besides being a convicted felon, he also unsuccessfully for the U.S. Senate seat. Real con man..

Nah, a real con man would have won the Senate seat.

Or the Presidency... ;-)

bennett123 · Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:50 pm

Acquiring B747-8 could be interesting.

Also wonder how many suitable B747-400 there are. Firstly, any cargo examples are presumably out, and secondly many are getting on in years.

jimbo737 · Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:32 am

Are they tied into Jetlines in Canada’s?

Jetsouth · Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:39 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Are they tied into Jetlines in Canada’s?

Avatar, Baltia and Jetlines have probably been around longer than most other airlines that actually fly planes.

Dominion301 · Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:19 am

RWA380 wrote:
rnav2dlrey wrote:
Avatar will capture some of that revenue by selling ad space to help ensure that its ticket prices remain ultralow, even if Avatar’s expenses rise. Tempered only by FCC safety regulations and requirements, nothing will be sacred. Anything that you see or touch will be available for purchase. Management even envisions patrons using the restroom and being “greeted” by a named brand bathroom tissue company when they look inside the lid of the lavatory bowl. The outside of the aircraft may be adorned by e.g., Pepsi, Google or any other named brand on a massive aircraft “wrap.” Tray tables and overhead bins will be virtual billboards in the sky.

Avatar, may be the worst name & should say it all about the company. I understand this IS the way things are going, if you've flown NK they have advertising (or at least did) on the overhead bin lids. The 744 sure has a lot of exterior advertising space, only missed by the A-380, but some of these airports are not likely A-380 capable. If it means I can get name brand tissue, I'd still never fly them & bring my own. LOL! Not like any airline uses anything but 1 ply, chaffe master brand.

There’s a huge revenue opportunity-charge $1 extra for 2-ply and $2 extra for ultra 3-ply! :blockhead:

GripenFan wrote:
On page 11 of the prospectus:

In order to increase aircraft utilization and decrease passenger loading time and with the cooperation of the airports served, Avatar intends to build its own passenger terminals.

This alone should make anyone with even the most basic knowledge of the industry run away. Where are they going to the space to build their own terminals? It's not like most of the airports they purportedly wan to serve have acres of open space. Oh, and there's that little matter of cost, etc.

747s at a private terminal. Who does that remind me of. :scratchchin:

Oh yeah Tower Air. :tombstone:

F27500 · Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:33 pm

Ooh, maybe they can do a code share with the new Midwest Express out of MKE in their CRJs!

OB1504 · Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:17 pm

So... Tower Air 2.0?

RWA380 wrote:
I understand this IS the way things are going, if you've flown NK they have advertising (or at least did) on the overhead bin lids. The 744 sure has a lot of exterior advertising space, only missed by the A-380, but some of these airports are not likely A-380 capable.

Given that all of the inflight advertising attempts kind of fizzled out, I wonder if it’s even really worth it for the airlines.

Veigar wrote:
Can LAS and MIA handle A380 though?

MIA sees A380 service from Air France, British Airways, and Lufthansa, so I would certainly hope so.

GripenFan wrote:
On page 11 of the prospectus:

In order to increase aircraft utilization and decrease passenger loading time and with the cooperation of the airports served, Avatar intends to build its own passenger terminals.

This alone should make anyone with even the most basic knowledge of the industry run away. Where are they going to the space to build their own terminals? It's not like most of the airports they purportedly wan to serve have acres of open space. Oh, and there's that little matter of cost, etc.

Unless they meant “terminals” in the Tower Air terminal at JFK sense, which is to say a converted hangar.

bond787 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:33 pm

If this turns out to be legit, this would be big news for Boeing.

https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/5090721 ... 10-billion

adamblang · Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:38 pm

From the linked article:

from Avatar Airlines

Nevermind, nothing to see here.

debonair · Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:46 pm

According to their homepage, AVATAR signed a LOI for 30 B747-8 worth over 10 billion $... Good luck!

Http://www.avatarairlines.com/boeing-letter-of-intent/

Polot · Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:00 pm

debonair wrote:
According to their homepage, AVATAR signed a LOI for 30 B747-8 worth over 10 billion $... Good luck!

Http://www.avatarairlines.com/boeing-letter-of-intent/

It’s not even a LOI. It is someone with no actual knowledge of what a LOI actually is claiming they signed one. All Avatar did was send Boeing a letter saying they would like to eventually get 747-8s so please contact me. Like Avatar literally believes a LOI is when you send a letter to someone telling them what you intend to do.

LOL is more accurate.

chrisp390 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:26 pm

I have to laugh at the Tweet they sent about it,

"How many people can say they’re working on a ten billion dollar deal with the top executives of one of the largest companies in the world? https://einpresswire.com/article/509072 ... 10-billion #Boeing #Boeing747"

Also,

"We think ultra low fares combined with free bags, seat selection, Wi-Fi and lot’s of space to get up and walk around will create an incredible demand for Avatar. http://avatarairlines.com #airlines #passengers #discount"

Since when does all economy 747 equal lots of space, and how exactly do they plan to make money when bags, seat selection, and WIFI are free and fares are $19.

spinkid · Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:37 am

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
27 years later and they are still trying...

2019-0164-0001

=

https://avatarairlines.com/wp-content/u ... 111819.pdf

Clearly a desire to operate US made aircraft is driving them away from the obvious A380 opportunity!

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Doesn't he realize he can pick up some A380's on the cheap?

argentinevol98 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:51 am

Avatar should just go ahead and post the business plan on the Create your own Airline thread in the Aviation Hobby Forum...
viewtopic.php?p=22016887#p22016887

Honestly the business plan sounds a lot like what I would have come up with for fun when I was like 13.

argentinevol98 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:59 am

Jetsouth wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Are they tied into Jetlines in Canada’s?

Avatar, Baltia and Jetlines have probably been around longer than most other airlines that actually fly planes.

Could be the start of a new alliance! ScamTeam, perhaps?

marosbts · Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:19 am

Looks like a pretty good parody, but I liked Skyhigh Airlines better. Speaking of them, anyone got a copy of their Neccesities inflight sales catalogue? I really would like to relive the laugh

dstblj52 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:19 am

argentinevol98 wrote:
Avatar should just go ahead and post the business plan on the Create your own Airline thread in the Aviation Hobby Forum...
viewtopic.php?p=22016887#p22016887

Honestly the business plan sounds a lot like what I would have come up with for fun when I was like 13.

This is obviously a scam but if you told me you could fill a 747 or a380 in an all-economy configuration in someplace like NYC to MCO it might work the problem is their are like 10 viable routes in the US even on a once a day flight but its not a viable growth model (look at how many two horse town allegiant flies to)

argentinevol98 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:42 am

dstblj52 wrote:
argentinevol98 wrote:
Avatar should just go ahead and post the business plan on the Create your own Airline thread in the Aviation Hobby Forum...
viewtopic.php?p=22016887#p22016887

Honestly the business plan sounds a lot like what I would have come up with for fun when I was like 13.

This is obviously a scam but if you told me you could fill a 747 or a380 in an all-economy configuration in someplace like NYC to MCO it might work the problem is their are like 10 viable routes in the US even on a once a day flight but its not a viable growth model (look at how many two horse town allegiant flies to)

Yeah there are a few international routes that you might get an all Y 744/748/A388 to work in on a once daily basis with the right low fares (say LGW/STN-MCO/SFB) but nowhere near enough to profitably run an airline of any real size especially if you're going to buy new-build aircraft and not looking to rely primarily on charter revenue. Domestic routes sound even more ludicrous. Maybe some Hawaii to mainland routes, a few transcons and some NYC to Florida (and only at peak season) could support it but just watch the other ULCCs like NK and F9 slaughter you on frequency options. You'd have to probably undercut even them on fare price and I don't see how that could be profitable.

All in all it is a shame because I would love to see who would sponsor the toilet paper...

Pavlakakos · Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:22 am

debonair wrote:
According to their homepage, AVATAR signed a LOI for 30 B747-8 worth over 10 billion $... Good luck!

Http://www.avatarairlines.com/boeing-letter-of-intent/

Scariest part is that the bluecoats in Chicago might take this seriously, considering Boeing's philosophy this last decade.
Maybe they'll counter offer some cancelled MAX's?

dstblj52 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:31 am

Pavlakakos wrote:
debonair wrote:
According to their homepage, AVATAR signed a LOI for 30 B747-8 worth over 10 billion $... Good luck!

Http://www.avatarairlines.com/boeing-letter-of-intent/

Scariest part is that the bluecoats in Chicago might take this seriously, considering Boeing's philosophy this last decade.
Maybe they'll counter offer some cancelled MAX's?

If you buy the max it's 0 dollars down 0 due at signing and 0 first months payment

cschleic · Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:59 am

The prospectus is a particularly funny read. First two years of negative cash flow covered by stock issuance. Uh huh. At least no debt! Page 6 has a funny one. One paragraph says that a flight could operate with zero passengers but full freight and make a profit. The next paragraph says passenger revenue will cover freight costs. And never mind taking time to figure how small of a fuel cost increase would wipe out their numbers. At least some amusing evening reading.

JoseSalazar · Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:23 am

cschleic wrote:
The prospectus is a particularly funny read. First two years of negative cash flow covered by stock issuance. Uh huh. At least no debt! Page 6 has a funny one. One paragraph says that a flight could operate with zero passengers but full freight and make a profit. The next paragraph says passenger revenue will cover freight costs. And never mind taking time to figure how small of a fuel cost increase would wipe out their numbers. At least some amusing evening reading.

I like the investor video that shows an AN-124 graphic for their 747-400 and an MD-11 (or DC-10?) graphic for their 737-300. And why are they even using 737-300 as competition in their investor video? It’s almost like someone with no aviation knowledge made the video, and someone with no writing ability made their website. How do I give them my money?!?

Sancho99504 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:05 am

dstblj52 wrote:
Pavlakakos wrote:
debonair wrote:
According to their homepage, AVATAR signed a LOI for 30 B747-8 worth over 10 billion $... Good luck!

Http://www.avatarairlines.com/boeing-letter-of-intent/

Scariest part is that the bluecoats in Chicago might take this seriously, considering Boeing's philosophy this last decade.
Maybe they'll counter offer some cancelled MAX's?

If you buy the max it's 0 dollars down 0 due at signing and 0 first months payment

0% interest for 60 months and a 5 year, 25,000/12,000 cycle warranty, whichever comes first.

SQ22 · Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:37 am

I have merged the previously lockedthread about the 747-8 ROI into this thread.

travaz · Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:59 am

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the exec suit at Boeing when the mail person dropped that letter on thier desk. I can imagine the laughter was long and loud.

In this Washington Post article published in November of 2019, the Corporate Lawyer explains why Mr Michaels should be given another chance to start this airline. :spin:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/transport ... g-fares-s/

Added Washington Post article

randomdude83 · Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:34 am

I don't think Boeing would just let a LOI and the use of their company name goes out without some form of payment. Regardless if the company gets off its feet or not. I hope Boeing got non refundable something for that LOI and isn't letting an unproven company use its name for nothing.

on the other hand, Avatar does benefit from the manufacture backing (in name) to recruit the investors they need to get this started. but if it all belly's up and ends up being a scam, Boeing I hope, got something for the use of its name and that LOI in the bank, if not, someone over there at BA SUCKS to let this happen for free

Dominion301 · Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:53 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Can’t wait to see that 30 747-8I order.........

LOL how did you know it would be for 30? Go and buy yourself a lotto ticket.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net