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ikolkyo
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Re: Avatar Airlines (formerly Family Airlines) start up tries again..

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:36 am

Dominion301 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Can’t wait to see that 30 747-8I order.........


LOL how did you know it would be for 30? Go and buy yourself a lotto ticket. ;)

I’m not that good, haha. It was in the link in the original post.
 
N5814D
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Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:12 am

Article: https://simpleflying.com/low-cost-747-8/

Do you think this could be viable, or will this turn into Tower Air Part Two; Electric Bugaloo?
I'm curious to see where this goes.

Apologies if this has been posted previously, if it has, I haven't seen it.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:16 am

The quickest way to run them to bankruptcy court.

Next.

And I honestly dont give much credibility to the source either.

Michael
 
N5814D
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:19 am

I'm not that familiar with the source, it just popped up in my Google feed. That being said, it seems to be a rather poorly written article.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:19 am

N5814D wrote:
I'm curious to see where this goes.


It will not be going anywhere.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:31 am

This is the former Family Airlines. We all know what a stunning success that was.
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:32 am

So...which a.net member is launching this airline?
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
N5814D
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:34 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
So...which a.net member is launching this airline?



Not this one.
 
blueflyer
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:35 am

Well, it's a good thing the airline is a serious, very well funded enterprise and they can pay a hefty deposit. After the MAX debacle, Boeing is going to need that cash yesterday so they can start looking for a plant to house their brand new tools to build the fuselage. The old fuselage plant and all its tools went on the auction block only four months ago.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... huts-down/
 
KFTG
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:37 am

Surely this "airline" is another racketeering enterprise like Baltia.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:37 am

Barry is back? The guy is slithering around trying to take people's money again. Hilarious! It will never happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Airlines
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:37 am

Seriously, this makes the resident a.net A380 sychophants look like geniuses in comparison:

"Avatar’s business plan envisions achieving unit costs “well below average” and, with the high-density 747s, claims it will be able to offer fares of $79 on transcontinental services and $99 to Hawaii, falling to as low as $19 for shorter flights."

Uh huh.
I guess there's always people to scam when it comes to fund raising.
 
Someone83
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 am

It is not an LoI but an LOL.....
 
N5814D
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 am

So, the concencus is that it won't get off the ground? That was kind of my feeling.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:51 am

N5814D wrote:
So, the concencus is that it won't get off the ground? That was kind of my feeling.


Well Boeing made a big song and dance about this "LOI", that's how seriously they're taking it.

Oh wait...
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
VV
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:52 am

Is Vijay back in the airline business?
 
speedbird52
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:00 am

I know this won't happen but I desperately want at least one to be built and flown so I can check off "spotted the last passenger 747 built" off my bucket list
 
bennett123
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:06 am

Apart from the Family Airlines link, a major factor will be what happened to the tooling which was sold by the Triumph Group.

Does anyone know who bought it, or where there multiple purchasers?
 
GatorClark
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:15 am

While I would LOVE to see a domestic airline with an all 747 fleet, I have to agree that about as close as this guy will get is to have a 30-person multiplayer session on Flight Simulator X or Prepar3d. Also for what its worth, its not just SimpleFlying that has written an article. I've read no less than 4 different articles solely about the Letter of Intent. Most were thorough enough to include Barry's criminal background with Family Airlines as well. That all being said, I see this working out about as much as I see Pan Am returning with an all 747 fleet and hubs at JFK & MIA.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:25 am

My reading of this:

Avatar sends an LOI to Boeing without ever having spoken to Boeing. Boeing is having a good laugh, and ignores the LOI knowing very well that Avatar will never find the money to fund such a fleet. In the near future, Boeing will shut down the line out of common sense. Once shut down, Avatar will try to earn a quick buck by suing Boeing for shutting down the line and ignoring the LOI and therefore causing financial harm. Instead of racking up legal fees, Boeing settles for a small sum out of court (less than the legal fees to get the case dismissed) and the Avatar guys buy themselves a new car (and their lawyer buys his next gold Rolex).
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RickNRoll
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:36 am

Such a decision prompts us to ask: are jumbo jets the future for low-cost airlines?

I'm surprised they even bothered to ask themselves the question, much less actually print it.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:38 am

Would Boeing be interested in doing a 550+ seats 777-9 for such a customer?
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:46 am

I thought the fuselage manufacturer had permanently stopped production
 
VV
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:47 am

Perhaps they should try second hand A380 instead.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:38 am

VV wrote:
Is Vijay back in the airline business?


Clearly not. He would have ordered 5 747-8, 5 777-9, 5 787-10 and 5 737MAX.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:43 am

AngMoh wrote:
My reading of this:

Avatar sends an LOI to Boeing without ever having spoken to Boeing. Boeing is having a good laugh, and ignores the LOI knowing very well that Avatar will never find the money to fund such a fleet. In the near future, Boeing will shut down the line out of common sense. Once shut down, Avatar will try to earn a quick buck by suing Boeing for shutting down the line and ignoring the LOI and therefore causing financial harm. Instead of racking up legal fees, Boeing settles for a small sum out of court (less than the legal fees to get the case dismissed) and the Avatar guys buy themselves a new car (and their lawyer buys his next gold Rolex).


I think Boeing is smart enough to avoid this [stupid] trick. Or Boeing just don't care, throw a little money on Avatar's faces and busy in [re]certifying the 737Max and 777X "D
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Antaras
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:45 am

VV wrote:
Perhaps they should try second hand A380 instead.

I think so. When AF is retiring 10 A388s with other carriers are mulling to do the same thing, I think that it is not impossible for this airline to get 30 jumbos in the next dozen of years.
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RalXWB
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:07 am

First the 100 x 748 EK order and now this. #somuchwinning
 
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CPHFF
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:16 am

When reading their website I get a serious "BALTIA Part Deux" wibe...
If it weren't for UAW, Detroit would shine!
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:07 am

As much as I would love to see the Queen get a sudden and unexpected extension of life, I agree with the others that this sounds too unlikely to ever materialise. But one can always dream...
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:05 am

If they were realistic they could maybe think about buying 1 or 2 secondhand 747-400s, which are cheap to lease these days. They could test out their theory on a few busy routes and see if it works.

But where are they going to get the money for 30 new 747-800s? Their plans are not realistic. Their route map was also totally crazy. Nobody is going to make money flying 747s to Albuquerque.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:07 am

VV wrote:
Perhaps they should try second hand A380 instead.


That's true. You could start a whole airline with a few of those retired beasts that no-one wants. If the lease was cheap enough... Another option would be to create a "temporary" airline with some of the parked Chinese aircraft.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:45 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Apart from the Family Airlines link, a major factor will be what happened to the tooling which was sold by the Triumph Group.

Does anyone know who bought it, or where there multiple purchasers?

It's not straightforward. Yes, they intended to sell it piecemeal. They hired an auctioning company, and called a public auction, with a listing for individual pieces (down to reasonable size: they wouldn't list an individual screwdriver or a toolbox, but rather tool tray with all contents, or tool crate with all contents). Post auction, the auctioneer had the list updated with "sold"/"unsold" labels. The list was online (maybe still is) until recent time. Eyeballing the list (at the time) I feel that way below 50% are "sold". Still, some fairly serious pieces were missing; this no longer looks like a "complete line". Also, everyone must have been fired, so even if the line were intact -- it would take time and effort to make it operational again.


The destiny of the equipment that was left "unsold" is not something I understand. Is the auctioneer under obligation to try to sell again? Or his duty discharged, and the original owner does as he pleases (and what would that be, anyway)? I don't know how these things work, maybe someone more knowledgeable might enlighten us on the procedure.
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jfk777
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:56 pm

Used 777-300ER would be a better way to go.
 
T4thH
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:59 pm

Hmmmm....it is not the 01-Apr....interesting.

I have already seen this announcement few days ago, but was just not willed to start a thread with this...There is no joke thread in Civil Aviation.
 
commpilot
Posts: 132
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Re: Avatar Airlines (formerly Family Airlines) start up tries again..

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:14 pm

It’s big, it’s safe, it’s cost effective and it’s comfortable.

Each one of our 747 aircraft will be equipped alike, having 539 Economy Class seats on the lower
deck and 42 Office Class seats on the upper deck, for a total number of 581 seats.

28 inch seat pitch??

Page 5 is a good laugh...JFK MIA operation costs will on be $29,468 with a profit of only $1,938. lol Yep that's fine math to convince a stupid sap to invest in this totally legitimate business plan.
 
steeler83
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:22 pm

TurboJet707 wrote:
As much as I would love to see the Queen get a sudden and unexpected extension of life, I agree with the others that this sounds too unlikely to ever materialise. But one can always dream...

My sentiments exactly. I don't see this happening at all.

Can someone post this story in roughly another month and a half...? ;)
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:23 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
If they were realistic they could maybe think about buying 1 or 2 secondhand 747-400s, which are cheap to lease these days. They could test out their theory on a few busy routes and see if it works.

But where are they going to get the money for 30 new 747-800s? Their plans are not realistic. Their route map was also totally crazy. Nobody is going to make money flying 747s to Albuquerque.



What's a 747-800?
 
commpilot
Posts: 132
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Re: Avatar Airlines (formerly Family Airlines) start up tries again..

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:33 pm

That whole proposal is the best thing I have read this year.
 
travaz
Posts: 897
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:17 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
If they were realistic they could maybe think about buying 1 or 2 secondhand 747-400s, which are cheap to lease these days. They could test out their theory on a few busy routes and see if it works.

But where are they going to get the money for 30 new 747-800s? Their plans are not realistic. Their route map was also totally crazy. Nobody is going to make money flying 747s to Albuquerque.



What's a 747-800?

A phantom airplane much like the "Airline" that wants the 747-800
 
dennys
Posts: 691
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Re: Avatar Airlines (formerly Family Airlines) start up tries again..

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:18 pm

well , these are pretty good news , 747-8i is still the BEST aircraft of the World !
 
OB1504
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:35 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Seriously, this makes the resident a.net A380 sychophants look like geniuses in comparison:

"Avatar’s business plan envisions achieving unit costs “well below average” and, with the high-density 747s, claims it will be able to offer fares of $79 on transcontinental services and $99 to Hawaii, falling to as low as $19 for shorter flights."

Uh huh.
I guess there's always people to scam when it comes to fund raising.


Isn’t that basically what Frontier charges now? Of course, they make up the difference with ancillary revenue and have a much more logical aircraft choice.
 
VV
Posts: 1838
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:09 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
VV wrote:
Perhaps they should try second hand A380 instead.


That's true. You could start a whole airline with a few of those retired beasts that no-one wants. If the lease was cheap enough... Another option would be to create a "temporary" airline with some of the parked Chinese aircraft.


Imagine a fleet of 30 A380 with 700 seats each.
 
Blerg
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Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:22 pm

VV wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
VV wrote:
Perhaps they should try second hand A380 instead.


That's true. You could start a whole airline with a few of those retired beasts that no-one wants. If the lease was cheap enough... Another option would be to create a "temporary" airline with some of the parked Chinese aircraft.


Imagine a fleet of 30 A380 with 700 seats each.


And each flight boarded through remote stands without buses.
 
VV
Posts: 1838
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:08 am

Blerg wrote:
VV wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:

That's true. You could start a whole airline with a few of those retired beasts that no-one wants. If the lease was cheap enough... Another option would be to create a "temporary" airline with some of the parked Chinese aircraft.


Imagine a fleet of 30 A380 with 700 seats each.


And each flight boarded through remote stands without buses.


Under a rainstorm.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:24 am

OB1504 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
Seriously, this makes the resident a.net A380 sychophants look like geniuses in comparison:

"Avatar’s business plan envisions achieving unit costs “well below average” and, with the high-density 747s, claims it will be able to offer fares of $79 on transcontinental services and $99 to Hawaii, falling to as low as $19 for shorter flights."

Uh huh.
I guess there's always people to scam when it comes to fund raising.


Isn’t that basically what Frontier charges now? Of course, they make up the difference with ancillary revenue and have a much more logical aircraft choice.


A random search of Frontiers EWR-LAS route (their longest) suggest the lowest fare/day around 40% higher than this fanciful $79 transcon (one way, naturally). Most days were significantly more.

Unless I'm mistaken, Frontier does not fly to Hawaii nor any other ETOPS routes, with all the add'l expenses involved.
Finally, who has ever made money on short hops with wide bodies?

My larger point is that the bogus verbiage sounds like a hustle put on naive investors and I believe the man behind the plan is known for that, even if not (yet) criminally convicted.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1800
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:25 am

VV wrote:
Blerg wrote:
VV wrote:

Imagine a fleet of 30 A380 with 700 seats each.


And each flight boarded through remote stands without buses.


Under a rainstorm.


I never said they should get 30 of them. Maybe they could just start with 1 or 2 retired birds to see if their business plan actually works. If they wanted, there will be plenty more becoming available over the next few years.

Regarding the issue of boarding by bus in a rainstorm, in Vietnam I boarded a plane like that and they had a special airstairs with covers that protect you from the rain and the sun.
 
TheWorm123
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:29 pm

Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:49 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Finally, who has ever made money on short hops with widebodies?


Jet2 with their A330s on 2 hour flights :D
B752 B753 A332 A321 B738
 
Blerg
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:57 pm

TheWorm123 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
Finally, who has ever made money on short hops with widebodies?


Jet2 with their A330s on 2 hour flights :D


Or Emirates. All of their regional destinations are on widebodies, some are as short as 40 minutes.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Avatar sends LOI to order 30 748's.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:25 pm

Blerg wrote:
TheWorm123 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
Finally, who has ever made money on short hops with widebodies?


Jet2 with their A330s on 2 hour flights :D


Or Emirates. All of their regional destinations are on widebodies, some are as short as 40 minutes.


Y'all seem to miss the obvious context of this thread being specific to the US market.

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