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LAXintl
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Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:10 pm

A little nugget noted in DOT filing where United is opposing an Air Philippines codeshare application.

2. While United is not opposed in principle to APC’s requested authority, United objects to the application to the extent it seeks benefits that are currently being denied to United and its customer base.
3. United presently operates flights between Guam and Manila. United has an interest in increasing its Philippine service by an additional daily flight at Manila, which United believes is in the public interest.
4. Unfortunately, to date, United has been refused slots and other airport infrastructure necessary for its additional flight plans. While United has been unable to execute its Manila growth plans, Philippine carriers have increased capacity to the U.S.


OST-2019-0156

=

I don't see UA adding an additional daily GUM-MNL service, which logically leads to assuming it will be a new flight from the U.S. mainland.
Last time UA served MNL was via Japan.
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Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:14 pm

Wouldn’t be too surprising given UA’s strong Asian network from SFO.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:30 pm

Will be a non-rev's dream.

I recall from family that works at United, back when the flight operated via Japan there could often be 100+ non-revs listed trying to get onboard.

Be good competition for PAL, though not sure how much premium upfront demand there is. Certainly not a big business market.
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Scarebus34
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:34 pm

With the reduction of premium seats in the 788 - this could be where they utilize that configuration.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:41 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
With the reduction of premium seats in the 788 - this could be where they utilize that configuration.

With upwards of 15 hours westbound, would this route be more optimal for the 789? How many more of those are they expecting?
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TWA902fly
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:45 pm

What is "Air Philippines"? Do you mean Philippine Airlines? And what codeshare routes are we talking about? That would give us a better understanding of what UA is really trying to achieve here. Does anyone have any more insight?

'902
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UPlog
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:49 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
What is "Air Philippines"? Do you mean Philippine Airlines? And what codeshare routes are we talking about? That would give us a better understanding of what UA is really trying to achieve here. Does anyone have any more insight?

'902


Air Philippines Corporation = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_Express

For more details on DOT filing, use the number the OP provided.
I fly your boxes
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:10 pm

UPlog wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
What is "Air Philippines"? Do you mean Philippine Airlines? And what codeshare routes are we talking about? That would give us a better understanding of what UA is really trying to achieve here. Does anyone have any more insight?

'902


Air Philippines Corporation = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_Express

For more details on DOT filing, use the number the OP provided.


Can you please provide a link as to where I can search for this filing? I am having a hard time finding it. Thanks!

'902
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MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
4. Unfortunately, to date, United has been refused slots and other airport infrastructure necessary for its additional flight plans. While United has been unable to execute its Manila growth plans, Philippine carriers have increased capacity to the U.S.

OST-2019-0156


Is that a common problem for carriers seeking to increase service out of MNL, or is there evidence this is discriminatory? Or perhaps a bit of self-serving fiction by United? (Carriers do get creative in their filings.)
 
x1234
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:33 pm

If their going to launch MNL they better launch BKK as well.
 
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zeke
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:35 pm

LAXintl wrote:
I don't see UA adding an additional daily GUM-MNL service, which logically leads to assuming it will be a new flight from the U.S. mainland.
Last time UA served MNL was via Japan.


Who is operating MNL-HNL ?
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cityairline
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:39 pm

This has been talked about for so long now, so it would be great if UA finally launched SFO-MNL. It’s a huge market and it could really use a competitor to PR.
The Philippine economy has grown by almost 40% in the last five years, and the future looks bright, so it would be a good investment for UA in the long term...
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hawaiian717
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:41 pm

zeke wrote:
Who is operating MNL-HNL ?


Philippine Airlines. Hawaiian served it for a while but pulled out.
 
cityairline
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:45 pm

x1234 wrote:
If their going to launch MNL they better launch BKK as well.

Why? SFO-MNL is a bigger market than SFO-BKK, and also BKK would be an extra 2-3 hours which would impact profits heavily...
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
J343
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:52 pm

I do hope UA gets granted. It would be nice to see some competition. Perhaps AA should start LAX-MNL too (I can only dream!). PR US-PH prices are significantly more expensive compared to CX, BR and KE
 
LurveBus
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:15 pm

LAXintl wrote:
A little nugget noted in DOT filing where United is opposing an Air Philippines codeshare application.

2. While United is not opposed in principle to APC’s requested authority, United objects to the application to the extent it seeks benefits that are currently being denied to United and its customer base.
3. United presently operates flights between Guam and Manila. United has an interest in increasing its Philippine service by an additional daily flight at Manila, which United believes is in the public interest.
4. Unfortunately, to date, United has been refused slots and other airport infrastructure necessary for its additional flight plans. While United has been unable to execute its Manila growth plans, Philippine carriers have increased capacity to the U.S.


OST-2019-0156

=

I don't see UA adding an additional daily GUM-MNL service, which logically leads to assuming it will be a new flight from the U.S. mainland.
Last time UA served MNL was via Japan.


It could very well be GUM though. When 5J pulled out of GUM, 2P went in to sit on their right as a designated carrier to the US. 2P flying GUM keeps Philippine Air Asia out. UA might have wanted to increase frequencies themselves if 2P didn’t beat them to the punch.
 
77H
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:03 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
4. Unfortunately, to date, United has been refused slots and other airport infrastructure necessary for its additional flight plans. While United has been unable to execute its Manila growth plans, Philippine carriers have increased capacity to the U.S.

OST-2019-0156


Is that a common problem for carriers seeking to increase service out of MNL, or is there evidence this is discriminatory? Or perhaps a bit of self-serving fiction by United? (Carriers do get creative in their filings.)


If I remember correct HA cited similar anti competitive discriminatory practices in MNL. It was one of the reasons the pulled out of MNL.

77H
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:04 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
UPlog wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
What is "Air Philippines"? Do you mean Philippine Airlines? And what codeshare routes are we talking about? That would give us a better understanding of what UA is really trying to achieve here. Does anyone have any more insight?

'902


Air Philippines Corporation = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_Express

For more details on DOT filing, use the number the OP provided.


Can you please provide a link as to where I can search for this filing? I am having a hard time finding it. Thanks!

'902


https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0156-0002

Regulations.gov
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:07 pm

No way the Philippines is high-yielding enough to warrant a US3 nonstop from the mainland. I'm surprised PR can make their NA market work considering the Philippines is an extremely poor country with little business demand to the Americas (mostly VFR or leisure). Can anyone explain how PR makes money on these low-yielding flights?

Also, isn't MNL a huge connecting destination from ICN/HKG/TPE/NRT anyway?
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:08 pm

So...after much denial in the past UA is now declaring its intention of serving SFO-MNL..... :scratchchin: .....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ha-462373/


LAXintl wrote:
I don't see UA adding an additional daily GUM-MNL service, which logically leads to assuming it will be a new flight from the U.S. mainland.

Except that MNL is so congested, unless one of the ME carriers cuts their many frequencies there. Or...is UA planning for the expected opening of CRK T2 instead :?: The report says SFO but somehow I was thinking of SEA even if it isn't their strong hub.


BWIAirport wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
With the reduction of premium seats in the 788 - this could be where they utilize that configuration.

With upwards of 15 hours westbound, would this route be more optimal for the 789? How many more of those are they expecting?

Not if they intend to make it a one-stopper...perhaps at NRT, given DL's withdrawal from there. That will also help fill the front cabin.

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
airbazar
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:12 pm

LurveBus wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
A little nugget noted in DOT filing where United is opposing an Air Philippines codeshare application.

2. While United is not opposed in principle to APC’s requested authority, United objects to the application to the extent it seeks benefits that are currently being denied to United and its customer base.
3. United presently operates flights between Guam and Manila. United has an interest in increasing its Philippine service by an additional daily flight at Manila, which United believes is in the public interest.
4. Unfortunately, to date, United has been refused slots and other airport infrastructure necessary for its additional flight plans. While United has been unable to execute its Manila growth plans, Philippine carriers have increased capacity to the U.S.


OST-2019-0156

=

I don't see UA adding an additional daily GUM-MNL service, which logically leads to assuming it will be a new flight from the U.S. mainland.
Last time UA served MNL was via Japan.


It could very well be GUM though. When 5J pulled out of GUM, 2P went in to sit on their right as a designated carrier to the US. 2P flying GUM keeps Philippine Air Asia out. UA might have wanted to increase frequencies themselves if 2P didn’t beat them to the punch.


I think suggesting that UA might be interested in SFO-MNL based on that entry is reading a bit too much into it.
This article, although it does not explicitly say what routes they want to add sort of implies that UA wants to add additional service to MNL but from GUM.
https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com ... -pal-guam/
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:16 pm

if UA adds an additional flight to MNL, it'll just be an additional GUM frequency. the filing makes zero mention of service to the mainland US; all of that speculation is baseless.

both SFO-BKK and LAX/SFO-SGN are more likely UA adds in the region than low-yield MNL, which already has nonstop service to both US coasts.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:18 pm

77H wrote:
If I remember correct HA cited similar anti competitive discriminatory practices in MNL. It was one of the reasons the pulled out of MNL.

So how come other airlines were thriving? HA was simply losing oodles on the route.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
xxcr
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:27 pm

This would fill the gap for UA and avoid the 2 stops to MNL. UA currently flies HNL-GUM-MNL...........which equates to a very long day of flying. This would also add to UA's strength to asia from SFO.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:35 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
if UA adds an additional flight to MNL, it'll just be an additional GUM frequency. the filing makes zero mention of service to the mainland US; all of that speculation is baseless.

both SFO-BKK and LAX/SFO-SGN are more likely UA adds in the region than low-yield MNL, which already has nonstop service to both US coasts.


SFO-BKK is in the same boat as MNL. Low yield VFR with very minimal premium to subsidise the VFR/budget tourist traffic.

If anything, in the long term it's likely to be government owned TG returning to the route IF they are able to get Cat 1 back.
 
babastud
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:40 pm

I could see this happening! Now I know it's low yielding and maybe BKK or SGN have some advantages. However, PAL has a monopoly on this route and does continue too expand and make the flight work quite well because of high demand year round. Look United has been thinking out of the box the last few years from SFO. They had to sorta rethink things after the whole China expansion was a flop (Chinese flooded the market) so they tried some new things and look we have now 2x SIN, a Tahiti route, MEL and more. Things have worked well and I believe they are open to more opportunities to grow the Pacific. From SFO they have huge O+D plus easy 1 connect to the major markets where the expat communities lives. Hope this happens...
 
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:44 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
UPlog wrote:

Air Philippines Corporation = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL_Express

For more details on DOT filing, use the number the OP provided.


Can you please provide a link as to where I can search for this filing? I am having a hard time finding it. Thanks!

'902


https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0156-0002

Regulations.gov


Thank you!

Having read this, I'm a little skeptical that UA has any intent on launching SFO-MNL. That's a long route to a notoriously low-yield destination, it sounds more like United doesn't want added competition on the GUM-MNL route. And on this route if UA really wanted to increase capacity but couldn't get more access to MNL, they could upgauge to a 777 (rotated into the GUM-NRT and GUM-HNL routes).

'902
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TWA902fly
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:45 pm

xxcr wrote:
This would fill the gap for UA and avoid the 2 stops to MNL. UA currently flies HNL-GUM-MNL...........which equates to a very long day of flying. This would also add to UA's strength to asia from SFO.


Is MNL part of the UA/ANA joint venture? If so, that's a much easier way to get to MNL on UA than via HNL/GUM as you say.

'902
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Chasensfo
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:46 pm

I'd be surprised, the talk at United has always been that while there is huge demand for SFO/LAX-MNL, the yields are so low that there is no point dedicating aircraft to such a long, thin route. Much like BKK and SGN. If it does happen, good luck ever flying standby on it with all the Filipino UA employees with large families. I've seen close to 100 standbys on GUM-MNL flights with 10 open seats!
Last edited by Chasensfo on Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
COSPN
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:47 pm

Why not a SFO-GUM nonstop ?
 
codc10
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:48 pm

Does UA even have the authority to serve MNL-SFO? The GUM/ROR (and, previously, SPN) flights fall into a separate category under the bilateral.
 
ethernal
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:55 pm

UPlog wrote:
Will be a non-rev's dream.

I recall from family that works at United, back when the flight operated via Japan there could often be 100+ non-revs listed trying to get onboard.

Be good competition for PAL, though not sure how much premium upfront demand there is. Certainly not a big business market.


Agree that it is still not a premium-heavy market, but there is increasing demand - primarily from professional services companies. A lot of large firms are trying to grow the Philippines in place of India for outsourcing (especially non-IT, e.g., business process outsourcing) - India is getting more expensive and there is better time-zone overlap with the Philippines for the West Coast. The scale of growth can be staggering - some of the large SIs are growing by 10K+ employees per year.

Site visits (either from the firms themselves or from client auditors or clients themselves) drive premium traffic.
 
x1234
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:18 pm

All the global multinational call centers for the American/Canadian market is increasingly out of the Philippines as they speak American English, not British English as in the case of India as the Philippines were once a American colony. The question remains even with all the BPO business, does it have enough yield in Polaris to justify operating the flight!? China was once at the Philippines level of income but income in the Chinese major cities is now on par with the US (PEK/PVG/CAN/SZX/HKG) with the crazy real estate boom.
 
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:49 pm

Devilfish wrote:
77H wrote:
If I remember correct HA cited similar anti competitive discriminatory practices in MNL. It was one of the reasons the pulled out of MNL.

So how come other airlines were thriving? HA was simply losing oodles on the route.


What other airlines? It was PAL and HAL...

I was at HAL when they pulled out...I saw the anti-competitive nature of it all with my own eyes since I was heavily involved with it.

But please do tell us otherwise if you know...
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GmoneyCO
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:24 am

I work for a service org with significant operations in MNL which are growing quickly. There is growing demand for a non-stop mainland flight. With DL dropping NRT to MNL the game is basically all UA via the ANA code share at this point. I expect some conversions from PAL to UA to occur as well if a non-stop starts as a I know a few folks who only fly PAL because it is non-stop. It could be a tough at first but within 12 months the premium demand will be there
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:33 am

UPlog wrote:
Will be a non-rev's dream.

I recall from family that works at United, back when the flight operated via Japan there could often be 100+ non-revs listed trying to get onboard.

Be good competition for PAL, though not sure how much premium upfront demand there is. Certainly not a big business market.


It's not a small business market either. The Philippines has become, over a number of years, a key hub for companies in the services sector to base their call centers and technical support there. Financial Services, Telecommunications, the Tech industry increasingly leverage the country and Metro Manila specifically for their back office operations. It's a lower cost center.

It would not be unbelievable to see UA start a SFO-MNL nonstop. It might not be daily, and it might be on the 787-8 (if it has the legs though I think the 787-9 would likely be the aircraft used on such a route). There is enough VFR traffic to support it. The jury is out on whether it will be profitable but the likelihood of it being profitable has dramatically increased in recent years whereas previously it was out of the question.
 
77H
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:36 am

Devilfish wrote:
77H wrote:
If I remember correct HA cited similar anti competitive discriminatory practices in MNL. It was one of the reasons the pulled out of MNL.

So how come other airlines were thriving? HA was simply losing oodles on the route.


Sorry bud, can’t help you there as I’m not on HA’s E-Team. I’m going off memory from quite some time ago but I believe they cited similar behavior to what UA is claiming.

77H
 
SESGDL
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:49 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
I work for a service org with significant operations in MNL which are growing quickly. There is growing demand for a non-stop mainland flight. With DL dropping NRT to MNL the game is basically all UA via the ANA code share at this point. I expect some conversions from PAL to UA to occur as well if a non-stop starts as a I know a few folks who only fly PAL because it is non-stop. It could be a tough at first but within 12 months the premium demand will be there


DL will continue to serve MNL through ICN once the NRT flight is dropped, so it’s not like UA will be the only game in town for US carriers.

Jeremy
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:49 am

If this gets launched by UA, I see it being on the B788, likely 3 times weekly. But where is the major point of sale?
 
Antarius
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:55 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
I work for a service org with significant operations in MNL which are growing quickly. There is growing demand for a non-stop mainland flight. With DL dropping NRT to MNL the game is basically all UA via the ANA code share at this point. I expect some conversions from PAL to UA to occur as well if a non-stop starts as a I know a few folks who only fly PAL because it is non-stop. It could be a tough at first but within 12 months the premium demand will be there


Theres also KE, OZ, JL/AA, CX etc. Why is this limited to PAL and UA/ANA?
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:59 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If this gets launched by UA, I see it being on the B788, likely 3 times weekly. But where is the major point of sale?


San Francisco, if there is one thing you can find is a Filipino owned agency in San Francisco or Daly City. Cut throat too, they'll sell tickets to MNL for only $10 markups, which doesn't even cover the average costs of issuing an invoice. MNL may be the most discounted market from the US, PAL is usually the lowest, but CI, BR, KE, OZ all take part in agencies bulk ticketing contracts.

My two ex-bosses will be happy as they have a home in Daly City & anther in the Philippines & are 1k's & million milers. They fly UA to HKG then PR, or fly BR all the way through.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:04 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If this gets launched by UA, I see it being on the B788, likely 3 times weekly. But where is the major point of sale?


3x weekly doesn't serve business demand, and VFR into a cut-throat market isn't going to be a winner with UA's (or AA's or DL's) cost structure. Min 5x year-round.
 
tphuang
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:22 am

I'd think BKK would do better than MNL. There'd be at least some higher yielding leisure + some business demand there from west coast.

The problem with this kind of route is that CN3 has just trashed the yield on the 1-stop itineraries. These days, I'd much rather fly to Thailand for winter vacation than going to Caribbeans because the fares are so cheap.
 
jayunited
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:16 pm

LurveBus wrote:

It could very well be GUM though. When 5J pulled out of GUM, 2P went in to sit on their right as a designated carrier to the US. 2P flying GUM keeps Philippine Air Asia out. UA might have wanted to increase frequencies themselves if 2P didn’t beat them to the punch.


I think LAXintl is correct, I don’t see UA wanting to add frequency on MNL-GUM, just look at UA response, UA talks about the benefits that PAL currently enjoys those benefits are nonstop flights. For now a UA passenger would have to fly MNL-GUM-NRT-USA or MNL-GUM-HNL-Mainland (hubs only)-final destination.
If UA were granted authority for a nonstop flight hours spent on the ground at several connecting cities would be eliminated by MNL-SFO connecting on to wherever their final destination might be. I think LAXintl’s interpretation is correct.

UPlog wrote:
Will be a non-rev's dream.

I recall from family that works at United, back when the flight operated via Japan there could often be 100+ non-revs listed trying to get onboard.

Be good competition for PAL, though not sure how much premium upfront demand there is. Certainly not a big business market.


If UA does at some point launch SFO-MNL it will be a nonrev nightmare.

I think you are underestimating the demand for revenue coach tickets and over estimating the size of the aircraft UA might place on this route.
Like someone else stated UA might use the 788 on this route, with the installation of Polaris/PE these frames will see a slight reduction in the total number of business class seats and an increase in the total number of coach seats. While you are correct there isn’t a huge business market to MNL from the US, the reconfigured 788’s might be UA’s answer to make this route work profitably from SFO.
 
jayunited
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:23 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If this gets launched by UA, I see it being on the B788, likely 3 times weekly. But where is the major point of sale?


UA already has it in place in the Philippines, we already fly MNL-GUM, and MNL-ROR.

The major point of sale would be from both the US and the Philippines.
 
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c933103
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:06 pm

Devilfish wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
I don't see UA adding an additional daily GUM-MNL service, which logically leads to assuming it will be a new flight from the U.S. mainland.

Except that MNL is so congested, unless one of the ME carriers cuts their many frequencies there. Or...is UA planning for the expected opening of CRK T2 instead :?: The report says SFO but somehow I was thinking of SEA even if it isn't their strong hub.

The three main middle east carrier offer a total of ~7x daily flight to MNL, which I don't think that would be a significant contributor to congestion at the airport
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Bobby27ph
Posts: 21
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:31 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
No way the Philippines is high-yielding enough to warrant a US3 nonstop from the mainland. I'm surprised PR can make their NA market work considering the Philippines is an extremely poor country with little business demand to the Americas (mostly VFR or leisure).


When someone not familiar with the subject matter gives his scientific opinion lols...

However, you can get your facts by doing the ff;

1. Try to wiki ‘KSFO’

2. Check top destinations

3. Also, check Manila’s top longhaul destinations

4. Google which Southeast Asian airline has the most number of flights to North America

PS: Filipinos are rich in common sense...
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raylee67
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:42 pm

This makes a lot of sense. UA used to route MNL via their NRT hub. The yield may be lower than top business destinations in Asia but will still be profitable with a 787.

I think AA should do MNL-LAX too. Again, it can test the waters with 787.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:03 pm

77H wrote:
Devilfish wrote:
77H wrote:
If I remember correct HA cited similar anti competitive discriminatory practices in MNL. It was one of the reasons the pulled out of MNL.

So how come other airlines were thriving? HA was simply losing oodles on the route.


Sorry bud, can’t help you there as I’m not on HA’s E-Team. I’m going off memory from quite some time ago but I believe they cited similar behavior to what UA is claiming.


I don't know what went on behind the scenes but the reporting I could find seems to cite high fuel prices and low fares:

“High fuel prices and low fares have plagued this particular route and while we have made several efforts to improve the economic performance of our Manila service, including adjusting our flight schedule to optimize connections and upgrading to newer A330 aircraft, we’ve concluded that the route will not be a commercial success,” Peter Ingram, Hawaiian’s chief commercial officer, said in a statement.


https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/blo ... lu-to.html
 
x1234
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Re: Rumor: United seeking SFO-MNL route

Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:58 pm

The KEY question here is if Filipino businesses will pay a premium for a non-stop. SIN is a completely different story as its one of the few developed Asian markets. Philippine Airlines non-stops to the USA (SFO LAX JFK) have a price premium, will UA price it the same or higher with UA's higher labor costs!? DL has a loyal following in the Philippines that's why they decided to make ICN-MNL work, if UA can do a SFO non-stop that's even better.

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