8herveg
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Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity before?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:02 pm

VS was most recently 6 x daily on LHR-JFK (mostly on A333's and 2 A346's I think?) and DL were 2 x daily (also on A333's I think?).

VS are now going 5 x daily (with 4 x A350's and 1 x A333) and DL will be going 3 x B764.

So still 8 flights overall.

But with 4 of those flights going A350, that's a huge capacity increase, which I'm guessing VS feel they can fill (and that they've studied the numbers/economics etc.).

Which makes me think, were VS massively under capacity before? If so, could they not have deployed bigger DL aircraft (such as the B777) on the route, for example? (Given VS didn't/don't have any other larger aircraft, apart from the B747 which is obviously configured more for leisure routes).

Thanks
 
evanb
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:05 pm

Given that the DL/VS JV do connect traffic through JFK one can't simply see it as being over/under capacity between JFK-LHR, but rather the entire network. For example, an increase in capacity on JFK-LHR may have offset a commensurate capacity decline over another hub.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:16 pm

What was VS load factors on the route? I am going to guess they were not this is just a better plane fit for for the route for xyz reasons.

If VS had the highest average fare and highest load factors then yes they were, but I bet they were not and at that time those planes made the most sens. Now going all 350 with a consistent newest product is better. I think it's less about capacity and VS wants its newest nicest planes on a really competative route.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:19 pm

I'd not call it a "huge" capacity increase, it's no more than 15% increase in total seats. OTOH, VS/DL are introducing their newest J products on the route to compete with BA/AA. Time will tell how do they fare against them.
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TC957
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:24 pm

VS used to have 744's and 346's to JFK 4-5 times daily so the present capacity isn't that much of a jump up from the past.
 
8herveg
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:41 pm

TC957 wrote:
VS used to have 744's and 346's to JFK 4-5 times daily so the present capacity isn't that much of a jump up from the past.


True. But didn't they operate those aircraft before the JV with DL? Either way, a reduction nonetheless and now nice to see a capacity increase again, even if it is just 15%. I'd say that's quite significant at least.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:46 pm

You are missing:
- Virgin's daily London Heathrow - Newark route
- Virgin's new daily London Gatwick - New York JFK route from May 2020

It means year on year, Virgin/Delta will go from 9 to 10 daily flights on the route whilst capacity goes from

S19: 2,316 daily seats (one-way)
S20: 2,848 daily seats (one-way)

Should be noted Virgin Atlantic will only operate 4x daily flights between London Heathrow and New York JFK (instead of 5) on Tuesdays and Saturdays from 7 June 2020
 
jumbojet
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:28 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
You are missing:
- Virgin's daily London Heathrow - Newark route
- Virgin's new daily London Gatwick - New York JFK route from May 2020

It means year on year, Virgin/Delta will go from 9 to 10 daily flights on the route whilst capacity goes from

S19: 2,316 daily seats (one-way)
S20: 2,848 daily seats (one-way)

Should be noted Virgin Atlantic will only operate 4x daily flights between London Heathrow and New York JFK (instead of 5) on Tuesdays and Saturdays from 7 June 2020


OP is specific to JFK in the title thread. Therefore, EWR and outside of LHR doesnt count,
 
airzona11
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:54 pm

So the capacity boost is basically like an additional flight. Huge market, connecting traffic, the economy still doing well, so the front and back are full.

Really amazing the LHR to NYC traffic numbers.
 
CRJ900
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:06 pm

Will the A350-1000 be dedicated to LHR-JFK for years to come? I thought the A350-1000 was optimised for flights twice as long and even longer...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:02 pm

This seems to be about putting the newest product on the route and tempting some of those premium passengers away from AA/BA. BA's response is that two 772s with the new Club World Suites will operate on the LHR-JFK route but the majority remain on refreshed 744s with the older Club World seats.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Opus99
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
This seems to be about putting the newest product on the route and tempting some of those premium passengers away from AA/BA. BA's response is that two 772s with the new Club World Suites will operate on the LHR-JFK route but the majority remain on refreshed 744s with the older Club World seats.

This will still be tough because the majority of people that fly the JFK route with AA/BA are very loyal due to years of executive club status etc especially BA has contracts with several global companies that utilise that route with their employees everyday. Maybe the leisure traveler might be bought over but certainly not the majority of customers that fly that route
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:48 am

i had seen 2 of them at JFK last week and did a double take. I had expected VS to send their A351s on some longer routes from the UK to Asia & Africa not across the pond to JFK.
 
toltommy
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:14 am

CRJ900 wrote:
Will the A350-1000 be dedicated to LHR-JFK for years to come? I thought the A350-1000 was optimised for flights twice as long and even longer...


Years to come? Are you serious? In this business, nothing is set past the latest firm schedule.

The planes might be optimised for longer flights, but DL/VS thinks they will make the highest ROI by putting them on this route. Plain and simple. Don't think someone in ATL isn't pulling the strings.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753/762/763/764/772/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440/700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
rbavfan
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:36 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
You are missing:
- Virgin's daily London Heathrow - Newark route
- Virgin's new daily London Gatwick - New York JFK route from May 2020

It means year on year, Virgin/Delta will go from 9 to 10 daily flights on the route whilst capacity goes from

S19: 2,316 daily seats (one-way)
S20: 2,848 daily seats (one-way)

Should be noted Virgin Atlantic will only operate 4x daily flights between London Heathrow and New York JFK (instead of 5) on Tuesdays and Saturdays from 7 June 2020


Based on past passenger stats Gatwick -JFK would be more coach sales vs JFK geared toward Business class sales. so no they did not miss that route.
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:58 am

What are they using LGW-JFK? I'd be all over an opportunity to get on one last VS 747-400 if they are using those.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:04 am

FlyCaledonian wrote:
This seems to be about putting the newest product on the route and tempting some of those premium passengers away from AA/BA. BA's response is that two 772s with the new Club World Suites will operate on the LHR-JFK route but the majority remain on refreshed 744s with the older Club World seats.

Unpopular opinion:Apart from the middle seats, the old J is actually okay on the 747. If you get an upperdeck seat I would almost call it good.
 
questions
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:22 am

speedbird52 wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
This seems to be about putting the newest product on the route and tempting some of those premium passengers away from AA/BA. BA's response is that two 772s with the new Club World Suites will operate on the LHR-JFK route but the majority remain on refreshed 744s with the older Club World seats.

Unpopular opinion:Apart from the middle seats, the old J is actually okay on the 747. If you get an upperdeck seat I would almost call it good.


What was included in the refresh?
 
speedbird52
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:33 am

questions wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
This seems to be about putting the newest product on the route and tempting some of those premium passengers away from AA/BA. BA's response is that two 772s with the new Club World Suites will operate on the LHR-JFK route but the majority remain on refreshed 744s with the older Club World seats.

Unpopular opinion:Apart from the middle seats, the old J is actually okay on the 747. If you get an upperdeck seat I would almost call it good.


What was included in the refresh?

I mostly am saying this because the wider cabin on the 747 makes it feel less cramped, but the refresh got a new IFE, new sidepanels, and better upholstery afaik
 
8herveg
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:36 am

They’re putting an A332 on the LGW-JFK route.
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:45 am

8herveg wrote:
They’re putting an A332 on the LGW-JFK route.


No, not a fan of that. Sticking to KLM 787 in that case.
 
GVROB
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:37 am

CHRISBA35X wrote:
8herveg wrote:
They’re putting an A332 on the LGW-JFK route.


No, not a fan of that. Sticking to KLM 787 in that case.


You could fly it to MAN though.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:24 am

8herveg wrote:
could they not have deployed bigger DL aircraft (such as the B777) on the route, for example?

That'd be rather counterproductive, seeing as DL's A333s seat more people than their 77Es do (293 vs 288).
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
8herveg
Topic Author
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:36 am

LAX772LR wrote:
8herveg wrote:
could they not have deployed bigger DL aircraft (such as the B777) on the route, for example?

That'd be rather counterproductive, seeing as DL's A333s seat more people than their 77Es do (293 vs 288).


I didn't know that. So could they have put their A333's on the route instead?
 
skipness1E
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:01 am

Delta are using the B764s to LHR once again as they have the new business class product and they're seeking to put their freshest and most impressive product into the highly competitive business market.
The Virgin A350 is C44W56Y235 versus C45W56Y225 on the A346 it replaces, +10 in Economy and -1 in Upper so really a like for like.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:16 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
i had seen 2 of them at JFK last week and did a double take. I had expected VS to send their A351s on some longer routes from the UK to Asia & Africa not across the pond to JFK.


PVG, HKG and JNB are the only destinations remaining that are not "across the pond". LOS is the other, but its even shorter than LHR-JFK. The impact of the JV with DL cannot be overstated, VS has never been more "Atlantic" than it is today. Im really pleased to see them do well, but their recent 3rd Runway campaign was utterly laughable. VS is down to a single LHR-JNB flight, a route where BA sends two A380s and a 787 on certain days, VS are a 'boutique' airline, they just don't have the scale to effectively compete - even on some of the most premium heavy routes from LHR. But the relationship with DL has allowed them to realise this and launch routes and frequencies that make sense.

BTW, this board is going to freak out when the majority of BA's LHR-JFK will be 77W operated once they get the Club Suite.
 
8herveg
Topic Author
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:17 am

skipness1E wrote:
Delta are using the B764s to LHR once again as they have the new business class product and they're seeking to put their freshest and most impressive product into the highly competitive business market.
The Virgin A350 is C44W56Y235 versus C45W56Y225 on the A346 it replaces, +10 in Economy and -1 in Upper so really a like for like.


Yes but the A346 was only on 1-2 of the daily flights. The A333 was on 4-5 of the daily flights, which was my whole point, as there is a massive difference between configuration/seating capacity from the A333 to the A350.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:32 am

VS is putting a brand new Lexus on the route

BA likes showing off their remodeled 1995 Oldsmobile

I saw the 350 parked at the hard stands by terminal four the other day very nice looking airplane
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:37 am

Opus99 wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
This seems to be about putting the newest product on the route and tempting some of those premium passengers away from AA/BA. BA's response is that two 772s with the new Club World Suites will operate on the LHR-JFK route but the majority remain on refreshed 744s with the older Club World seats.

This will still be tough because the majority of people that fly the JFK route with AA/BA are very loyal due to years of executive club status etc especially BA has contracts with several global companies that utilise that route with their employees everyday. Maybe the leisure traveler might be bought over but certainly not the majority of customers that fly that route


Fascinating look into human psychology and how some travellers who are tied to the teat of loyalty programs willingly accept sub-par products. If it is the same product to LHR as is on the JFK to Madrid and JFK to Rome route, then AA's J is substantially inferior to VS' in every single aspect.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:16 pm

8herveg wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Delta are using the B764s to LHR once again as they have the new business class product and they're seeking to put their freshest and most impressive product into the highly competitive business market.
The Virgin A350 is C44W56Y235 versus C45W56Y225 on the A346 it replaces, +10 in Economy and -1 in Upper so really a like for like.


Yes but the A346 was only on 1-2 of the daily flights. The A333 was on 4-5 of the daily flights, which was my whole point, as there is a massive difference between configuration/seating capacity from the A333 to the A350.

The use of the A333s was a more recent deployment as JFK tended to see B744s and A346s. It was only the DL/VS JV that allowed the economies of scale to allow VS to compete with BA/AA, without that, they had been condemned to be the next BCAL, left behind without the scale to keep up. For me it's more of a return to where they had been before in terms of equipment size, the market has grown substantially since Bermuda II was buried, it's good to see Virgin remain very relevant in that space.
Worth noting United have gone the other way on LHR-EWR, removing B764s for smaller B763s, albeit with Polaris. I do wonder if Virgin will re-instate the second LHR-EWR at some point.

As for non-Atlantic, well they're still on HKG, PVG,BOM, DEL, JNB,LOS with TLV just launched.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:09 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
i had seen 2 of them at JFK last week and did a double take. I had expected VS to send their A351s on some longer routes from the UK to Asia & Africa not across the pond to JFK.


PVG, HKG and JNB are the only destinations remaining that are not "across the pond". LOS is the other, but its even shorter than LHR-JFK. The impact of the JV with DL cannot be overstated, VS has never been more "Atlantic" than it is today. Im really pleased to see them do well, but their recent 3rd Runway campaign was utterly laughable. VS is down to a single LHR-JNB flight, a route where BA sends two A380s and a 787 on certain days, VS are a 'boutique' airline, they just don't have the scale to effectively compete - even on some of the most premium heavy routes from LHR. But the relationship with DL has allowed them to realise this and launch routes and frequencies that make sense.

BTW, this board is going to freak out when the majority of BA's LHR-JFK will be 77W operated once they get the Club Suite.


To be fair, Virgin has just started, or is about to start TLV, GRU and a 2nd daily BOM (they also operate to BOM already as a non-across-the-pond route). I completely agree that they're a boutique airline though. You won't see them pioneering anything new network-wise.

Great point about the BA 77Ws, 72J seats with the Club Suite - it has JFK written all over it. For such a capable aircraft it almost seems a shame to operate it on a relatively short route so often.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:41 pm

BA777FO wrote:
To be fair, Virgin has just started, or is about to start TLV, GRU and a 2nd daily BOM (they also operate to BOM already as a non-across-the-pond route). I completely agree that they're a boutique airline though. You won't see them pioneering anything new network-wise.

Great point about the BA 77Ws, 72J seats with the Club Suite - it has JFK written all over it. For such a capable aircraft it almost seems a shame to operate it on a relatively short route so often.


I take your point. It was the comment that VS should not be 'wasting' A35J's "across the pond" that I found irritating as VS has focussed their network on routes that make sense, not routes that make the route map look more impressive. This has left it with precious few routes that are not "across the pond". The commercial reality is that the A35J will be seen to the likes of JFK where they can sell large volumes of premium seats and MCO, where they can sell large volumes of economy seats. The A330s will be for lower volume/lower premium demand routes in the Caribbean and East Cost the 789 will find a similar role on the longer routes in the network. MAN-MCO on the A350 is really going to drive the spotters insane, best not to mention GLA-MCO. :lol:
 
sevenheavy
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Re: Big capacity increase on VS's LHR-JFK flight due to 4 x A350's being deployed on route. Were they under capacity bef

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:35 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Delta are using the B764s to LHR once again as they have the new business class product and they're seeking to put their freshest and most impressive product into the highly competitive business market.
The Virgin A350 is C44W56Y235 versus C45W56Y225 on the A346 it replaces, +10 in Economy and -1 in Upper so really a like for like.


The A346 were actually C45W38Y225 so a 27 seat increase overall.

The biggest increase is in W. The A350 has 56 seats, and the DL B764 now have a W20 cabin. On most days that’s around a 40% increase in available seats.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.

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