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thebigz
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Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Danish insideflyer.dk https://insideflyer.dk/seat-map-sas-airbus-a321lr has published a seatmap for the new SAS A321LR that will be delivered next year and used for transatlantic flights between CPH-BOS.

But seriously, that is one weird layout in business with a 2+2 and 1+1 layout every other row.

Would it not be better to have 2+1 on all rows? With 7 rows it would mean one less seat in business but it would be a more logical layout I think.

Is there any other similar layouts out there?
 
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keesje
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:55 pm

Image
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Someone83
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:56 pm

It is the same layout and the same seats as both AerLingus and TAP has

Image

Image
 
twicearound
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 pm

That's a pretty standard layout for a narrowbody. TAP, BA, JetBlue, FlyDubai, Aer Lingus all use that layout and similar seat type on their A321, 757, and 737.
 
737max8
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:58 pm

I feel like you answered your own question. If this layout fits 1 more seat then it is better. Revenue $$$
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vhqpa
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:00 pm

It's a great way to cater to both pairs and solo travelers
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Slash787
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:11 pm

Even Flydubai has the same layout for its new business class.
 
AB330
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:12 pm

twicearound wrote:
That's a pretty standard layout for a narrowbody. TAP, BA, JetBlue, FlyDubai, Aer Lingus all use that layout and similar seat type on their A321, 757, and 737.


BA Medium-haul A321 have a 1-2 or 2-1 layout depending which row the seat is.

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... atmap.html
 
VSMUT
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:47 pm

Someone83 wrote:
It is the same layout and the same seats as both AerLingus and TAP has

Image

Image


AFAIK, Check-in.dk had an article on it. SAS is not adopting the TAP and Aer Lingus layout. They are going for 3 seats in each row, so 2+1 then 1+2 then 2+1 etc. I don't know if there is perhaps a toilet or galley on the left side, leading to this seat map.
 
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keesje
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:52 pm

.
I always wondered, is 2-2-2-2-2 angled, like AA and Delta not more efficient than 1-2-1-2-1? .

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VSMUT
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:08 pm

keesje wrote:
.
I always wondered, is 2-2-2-2-2 angled, like AA and Delta not more efficient than 1-2-1-2-1? .

Image


That is how La Compagnie and British Airways equipped their A321LR and A318. IMHO, if they are going to have 2+2 at all, they might as well go all in.
 
bx737
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:18 pm

The Aer Lingus/TAP etc configuration is space saving with lie flat seats. If you remove the seats and lie passengers down, the person on their own has the feet of those behind him/her beside their head. Also this way, more seats have direct aisle access, for the 16 business class seats, 10 have direct aisle access as opposed to 8 with a 2+2 layout.
 
Someone83
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:18 pm

VSMUT wrote:
AFAIK, Check-in.dk had an article on it. SAS is not adopting the TAP and Aer Lingus layout. They are going for 3 seats in each row, so 2+1 then 1+2 then 2+1 etc. I don't know if there is perhaps a toilet or galley on the left side, leading to this seat map.


That is not what they seat map shows, and would only give 21 seats, and not 22 as SAS has
 
fromheretohere9
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:45 pm

VSMUT wrote:
keesje wrote:
.
I always wondered, is 2-2-2-2-2 angled, like AA and Delta not more efficient than 1-2-1-2-1? .

Image


That is how La Compagnie and British Airways equipped their A321LR and A318. IMHO, if they are going to have 2+2 at all, they might as well go all in.


When did British Airways get a A321LR ??
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:50 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
fromheretohere9 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
keesje wrote:
.
I always wondered, is 2-2-2-2-2 angled, like AA and Delta not more efficient than 1-2-1-2-1? .

Image


That is how La Compagnie and British Airways equipped their A321LR and A318. IMHO, if they are going to have 2+2 at all, they might as well go all in.


When did British Airways get a A321LR ??


He means it respectively. A321LR applies to LaCompagnie and A318 to BA....
 
upintheair2019
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:09 pm

thebigz wrote:
Is there any other similar layouts out there?


flydubai on their 737 MAXs (2-1-2-1). They call the single seat "Throne Seat".
 
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Miguel1982
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:15 pm

I guess that doing seven rows of 2-2 > 1-1 > 2-2 and so on gets you one extra seat when compared to TAP and other's 2-1 > 1-2 > 2-1. That would match SAS's expected 22 seats.
 
EMB170
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:20 pm

Plus they can charge extra for the single seats, like B6 does.
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MAH4546
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:59 pm

EMB170 wrote:
Plus they can charge extra for the single seats, like B6 does.


They can, but they don’t. And JetBlue absolutely does not.
a.
 
CRJ900
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:36 pm

So, nothing revolutionary about their biz class, then. But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.

Total seat count on SAS A321LR is 159 seats but two biz class seats will be blocked as crew rest, so 157 seats for sale.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:46 pm

keesje wrote:
Image
Jetblue Mint.

Would BA ever offer that as a Club Europe standard? NO ! :hissyfit:
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BrianDromey
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:07 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Would BA ever offer that as a Club Europe standard? NO ! :hissyfit:


AFAIK that layout is only for US transcontinental flights on premium heavy routes, it is far from system wide. B6 offer no premium cabin at all on the majority of their flight and no equivalent to CE in terms of lounges or catering on these flights either. You are just not comparing like with like. BA do offer a very similar layout on flights of similar length, like Amman, Beirut, Cairo, Moscow and Tel Aviv.

EI offer this exact layout on certain A321LR operated LHR-DUB and LHR-SNN, if those routes are of any use to you.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:15 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
So, nothing revolutionary about their biz class, then. But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.

Total seat count on SAS A321LR is 159 seats but two biz class seats will be blocked as crew rest, so 157 seats for sale.


This statement does not make any sense.

I am unaware if the aircraft can effectively operate more than 8 hours in one direction even in that configuration, which is I think around the time where EASA will require a 3rd pilot.

When you need a third pilot you would only need to block out one seat for rest purposes, not two. I'm sure we're all aware that as of now, we still need two pilots in the cockpit for operations, the third would be on the rest break.

For example, OSL/CPH/ARN-JFK would be about 7 hours, the return flight Eastbound is only about 6.

Even if you start to push the aircraft to +4000 mile routes like ARN-IAD, OSL-ORD, or CPH-PIT you're still looking at similar flight times, nothing that requires a 3rd pilot.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us as to when SAS pilot contracts require a 3rd pilot at a certain point?
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SASViking
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:52 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
So, nothing revolutionary about their biz class, then. But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.

Total seat count on SAS A321LR is 159 seats but two biz class seats will be blocked as crew rest, so 157 seats for sale.


This statement does not make any sense.

I am unaware if the aircraft can effectively operate more than 8 hours in one direction even in that configuration, which is I think around the time where EASA will require a 3rd pilot.

When you need a third pilot you would only need to block out one seat for rest purposes, not two. I'm sure we're all aware that as of now, we still need two pilots in the cockpit for operations, the third would be on the rest break.

For example, OSL/CPH/ARN-JFK would be about 7 hours, the return flight Eastbound is only about 6.

Even if you start to push the aircraft to +4000 mile routes like ARN-IAD, OSL-ORD, or CPH-PIT you're still looking at similar flight times, nothing that requires a 3rd pilot.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us as to when SAS pilot contracts require a 3rd pilot at a certain point?

Not entirely true. Currently the CPH-EWR flights SAS currently operate are scheduled for 8h30m outbound and 7h40m inbound at the shortest of flights. The shortest LH route SAS have is CPH-BOS, on which the A321LR will operate. They are scheduled to 8h25m outbound and 7h40 inbound.
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VSMUT
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:19 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
So, nothing revolutionary about their biz class, then. But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.

Total seat count on SAS A321LR is 159 seats but two biz class seats will be blocked as crew rest, so 157 seats for sale.


This statement does not make any sense.

I am unaware if the aircraft can effectively operate more than 8 hours in one direction even in that configuration, which is I think around the time where EASA will require a 3rd pilot.

When you need a third pilot you would only need to block out one seat for rest purposes, not two. I'm sure we're all aware that as of now, we still need two pilots in the cockpit for operations, the third would be on the rest break.

For example, OSL/CPH/ARN-JFK would be about 7 hours, the return flight Eastbound is only about 6.

Even if you start to push the aircraft to +4000 mile routes like ARN-IAD, OSL-ORD, or CPH-PIT you're still looking at similar flight times, nothing that requires a 3rd pilot.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us as to when SAS pilot contracts require a 3rd pilot at a certain point?


It is between 11 and 13 hours allowable flight duty time under EASA, depending on time of departure. Absolutely no need for relief crew unless they start sending the same crew back and forth on the same day.
 
RawSushi
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:25 am

thebigz wrote:
Danish insideflyer.dk https://insideflyer.dk/seat-map-sas-airbus-a321lr has published a seatmap for the new SAS A321LR that will be delivered next year and used for transatlantic flights between CPH-BOS.

But seriously, that is one weird layout in business with a 2+2 and 1+1 layout every other row.

Would it not be better to have 2+1 on all rows? With 7 rows it would mean one less seat in business but it would be a more logical layout I think.

Is there any other similar layouts out there?


This is not weird at all. It's the most efficient way to support lie-flat seats on narrow-bodies. The staggered layout allows the passenger behind to slot his/her legs in between the two seats in front when lying flat, thereby allowing for shorter seat pitch and therefore more rows to be fitted. Singapore Airlines will be using this layout too.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:16 am

vhqpa wrote:
It's a great way to cater to both pairs and solo travelers

And occasionally pairs who would rather be solo. :D
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MoKa777
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:15 am

I've always wondered, with the paired seats in a staggered config like this, how easy is it to get out from the window seat if the person next to you has their seat fully flat?

Is it easier or more difficult when you compare it to getting out of the window seat in a similar situation with a conventional 2-2 full-flat config? By conventional I mean the previous QR 777 J seat, LATAM 2-2-2 J, BA A318 J, etc.

And, while I'm on this, how does the Diamond J seat (pictured above by Keesje) compare in this regard?
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USAirKid
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:22 am

[code][/code]AFAIK, what makes it look weird on the seat map is the solo seat is shown as being a window seat, with the aisle seat behind it being shown as having a full bit of leg room.

Its a normal seat layout with a poor/weird seat map.
 
kanye
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:52 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
So, nothing revolutionary about their biz class, then. But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.

Total seat count on SAS A321LR is 159 seats but two biz class seats will be blocked as crew rest, so 157 seats for sale.


This statement does not make any sense.

I am unaware if the aircraft can effectively operate more than 8 hours in one direction even in that configuration, which is I think around the time where EASA will require a 3rd pilot.

When you need a third pilot you would only need to block out one seat for rest purposes, not two. I'm sure we're all aware that as of now, we still need two pilots in the cockpit for operations, the third would be on the rest break.

For example, OSL/CPH/ARN-JFK would be about 7 hours, the return flight Eastbound is only about 6.

Even if you start to push the aircraft to +4000 mile routes like ARN-IAD, OSL-ORD, or CPH-PIT you're still looking at similar flight times, nothing that requires a 3rd pilot.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us as to when SAS pilot contracts require a 3rd pilot at a certain point?





I'm sure the two seats for crew rest are for the cabin crew to sit down a bit during the long day. Their normal seats in the galley are as comfortable as piece of Wood.
 
dtremit
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:24 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.


Indeed -- this is nice to see, and I hope it sets a trend for narrowbody Y+ service.
 
jfk777
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:29 pm

The SAS A321neo LR has 22 J and 12 Y+ so it's going to be premium with very low density. While a very different layout than Aer Lingus and TAP which have fewer J class seats, SAS is doing what works for them. Interesting configuration, I hope other airlines are as adventurous as SAS with their A321neo LR's.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:48 pm

dtremit wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.


Indeed -- this is nice to see, and I hope it sets a trend for narrowbody Y+ service.


The question is if this 2+2 in SAS Plus is to good, and not enough differentiated from SAS Business class. We are not talking about a 12 hour flight, but more like 6 to 8 hours. Some people might go for SAS Plus instead of SAS Business.

They could have gone for 2+3 in SAS Plus. A321 is more than wide enough for five abreast premium economy. South African has some A319 with five abreast premium seating.
 
DominoxX
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:13 pm

the single seats cost more?
Thank u, next.
 
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SASViking
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:05 pm

DominoxX wrote:
the single seats cost more?

No
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CobaltScar
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:54 pm

I will miss the widebody on that route. oh well.

Is there dedicated cabin crew rest seats on that plane or do they have to hang out in the galleys all flight?
 
rbavfan
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:16 am

twicearound wrote:
That's a pretty standard layout for a narrowbody. TAP, BA, JetBlue, FlyDubai, Aer Lingus all use that layout and similar seat type on their A321, 757, and 737.


Actually BA uses the 1-2 to 2-1 alternating layout.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:05 am

reidar76 wrote:
dtremit wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
But their SAS Plus will be 2+2 seating - that must be a first on a narrowbody. The article mentions that this is much better than the 2+3+2 on the A333/A343 and 2+4+2 on the A359.


Indeed -- this is nice to see, and I hope it sets a trend for narrowbody Y+ service.


The question is if this 2+2 in SAS Plus is to good, and not enough differentiated from SAS Business class. We are not talking about a 12 hour flight, but more like 6 to 8 hours. Some people might go for SAS Plus instead of SAS Business.

They could have gone for 2+3 in SAS Plus. A321 is more than wide enough for five abreast premium economy. South African has some A319 with five abreast premium seating.


I agree with you. A standard premium economy product can fit 5-abreast in both a 737 and an A320 fuselage (and 4 abreast in an A220 fuselage).

I wonder why they didn't go for it. Either there must have been a net density penalty for the 'kink' in the aisle, or the 'kink' in the aisle in the middle of the plane must have greatly increased load/unload times, or perhaps the 5-abreast PE weighed a lot more than going 4-abreast and this went past some sort of limit (although I'm not sure how much of an impact this could really have).
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:11 am

I can't help but imagine that B6 might try this layout on its A321LR, but with only 15 J (International), and 12 international-style W, and 2 rows of Y+ aft of W plus the exit row by R3/L3, and then Y at 32"/18". (I see B6 maintaining one A321neo Cabin Flex door layout fleet-wide). I actually love this layout by SK to replicate the wide-body hard product into a narrow-body.
 
fessor
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:44 am

Think its a good layout for this plane still lot of premium seats but at the same time not to premium seats that would make the planes useful out of secondary airports.
I hope the 321lr will be a succes and SK will order more or maybe 321XLR
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:12 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I can't help but imagine that B6 might try this layout on its A321LR, but with only 15 J (International), and 12 international-style W, and 2 rows of Y+ aft of W plus the exit row by R3/L3, and then Y at 32"/18". (I see B6 maintaining one A321neo Cabin Flex door layout fleet-wide). I actually love this layout by SK to replicate the wide-body hard product into a narrow-body.



No, I don't think they will use this layout for their trans atlantic planes. There is already a better layout.
 
twicearound
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:14 pm

rbavfan wrote:
twicearound wrote:
That's a pretty standard layout for a narrowbody. TAP, BA, JetBlue, FlyDubai, Aer Lingus all use that layout and similar seat type on their A321, 757, and 737.


Actually BA uses the 1-2 to 2-1 alternating layout.
\

It's the exact same seat and layout. Don't just rely on seat maps. Please look at photos. I've been in both the JB and BA cabin. The BA cabin is staggered because of the galley config. otherwise, identical seat, identical space, identical cabin.
 
EI321
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Re: Weird cabin layout SAS A321LR

Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:03 pm

Aer Lingus also uses this same 2-2 / 1-1 business layout on the 757 since 2014.

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