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FLALEFTY
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Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:31 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
EK will be the one to watch on the A380. If they decide to buy every available frame coming off lease the A380 will serve for decades.
If they just keep their own frames operating, the A380 will soldier on for a decade or more.
If EK, reduces their A380 fleet to the newest 60, those 60 may be the only A380's flying a decade from now.

There will be less than 100 A380's flying 3 years from now most likely.


Things are getting dicey on the A380 front. Only 3 remain active and all are with China Southern. There are 4 A380's finished at Toulouse (3 for Emirates, 1 for ANA) that are waiting on the line for delivery. There are 5 left to build at Toulouse (all for Emirates). Of those that have been in airline service, 2 have been scrapped (both ex-Singapore). The rest are stored in various places around the world.

https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... ort=status
 
factsonly
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Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:12 am

Apr 25, 2020:

AF flies one A380 from CDG to Ostrava:

- AF366V CDG 09.01 - OSR 10.44 Airbus A380-861 F-HPJG

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-hpjg
 
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Wildlander
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Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:59 am

Alas no, headed towards Teruel. Have to doubt if this one will ever fly again after today, given the lack of investment in the cabin over the years.
 
bennett123
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Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:37 am

Now at landed.

In the past, has any aircraft gone to Tereul and left it in one piece?.
 
dcs921
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Re: Air France A380 retirement/parking thread

Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:58 am

 
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Faro
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Re: AF retired its first A380

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:06 am

lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I guess we shall see if a relatively new bird gets taken up, or if all the threads saying the SQ birds were not taken up because of the old wiring were bunk.

This is LN 040, 26th to fly, 29th delivered.

This is a test of the A380 aftermarket. Alas, little hope. This example must have been marketed ever since AF announced.

Lightsaber



The A380 aftermarket was already a dodgy proposition before COVID-19...now as you say...little hope...


Faro
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qf789
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Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 6:06 am

Air France has announced that the A380 fleet will be retired effective immediately. Air France had previously scheduled the end of 2022 to retire the A380's however that has be brought forward due to COVID-19

Five of the airline's A380's are leased and the AF/KL group are expected that the withdrawal impact the group by about 500 millions Euros.

The airline plans to use A350's and 787's to replace the A380 fleet.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/air ... 63.article

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... 380-fleet/
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2175301
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 7:06 am

It will be very interesting to see how many A380's will return to service in the next year or so. Who would have thought that the replacement for the A380 would be an A350?

Have a great day,
 
Noshow
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 7:15 am

Air France used to be THE very hub airline to me. How many times did I go via CDG to the States on packed flights? With all those 747, 777 and the A380.
Now they shrink down to smaller twins in size. Shocking to see this in some way.
 
VV
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 7:31 am

Noshow wrote:
Air France used to be THE very hub airline to me. How many times did I go via CDG to the States on packed flights? With all those 747, 777 and the A380.
Now they shrink down to smaller twins in size. Shocking to see this in some way.


The sign has been clear since the fall of Berlin Wall.

The slow but deep structural change in air transport is on going.
This crisis only accelerates some required changes.
 
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ADent
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 7:46 am

 
Fuling
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 7:50 am

ADent wrote:


Yea the first thread mentioned was started, but closed and pushed into AF/KL Master Thread.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 7:57 am

Sad but not surprising.
 
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MrBren
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 8:54 am

So sad, the A380 is so quiet compared to the noisy 777s.
 
VV
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 11:44 am

MrBren wrote:
So sad, the A380 is so quiet compared to the noisy 777s.


And it will be even quieter on the ground, in storage.
 
Jefford717
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 11:57 am

Who would have predicted that more 747 will be flying into 2020s?

Unlike many here on A.net, the 747-8 program is very successful one financially. Infrastructure was already paid for from prior 747 program and newer technology was inherited from the 787. I.e. engines. This is how I see it, 50% less orders but with less than 10% of development cost to that of the A380.
 
Noshow
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:08 pm

Well in fact they had quite some teething troubles both with different structural loads caused by the different aerodynamic wing profile and with flutter and trim. So for a proven design it was more work than expected for sure. I hope the freighter will live on for many years. Might depend on which route Amazon chooses to take concerning their fleet.

Not sure if fuselage part production has already been terminated with parts for all remaining orders having been prebuilt now? Could new freighters still be ordered today?
Last edited by Noshow on Thu May 21, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
moa999
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:10 pm

Just wait on the numbers flying.
Neither program has been successfull.

If anything given Covid, i suspect the 748 has saved Airbus. Just imagine if there was on order book for 50 A380s at present.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:22 pm

2175301 wrote:
Who would have thought that the replacement for the A380 would be an A350?

It's not that illogical. A380 did not get the load factors that AF needed to make it work. The unsold inventory dragged yields down. The A80 was carrying weight around for a stretch that never happened, and had four previous generation engines that were never upgraded rather than two state of the art engines. It's no more surprising than BA using 787-10 to replace some 744 flights.
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Executor
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:32 pm

Do you think that the retirement of the A380 means, sooner or later, the end of a First Class onboard AF? If I'm not mistaken, they have only part of their 77W equipped with F-Class product.
 
ethernal
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:37 pm

Executor wrote:
Do you think that the retirement of the A380 means, sooner or later, the end of a First Class onboard AF? If I'm not mistaken, they have only part of their 77W equipped with F-Class product.


More than likely. Modern business class is better than first class was 30 years ago (and on par to was it was 20 years ago). The size of the market willing to pay for a first class product - above and beyond J - that can't afford private transportation is exceptionally tiny. We're just seeing first relabeled. What used to be First is now J and what used to be J is now Premium Economy. What used to be Y is now Comfort+/Economy+/Extra Legroom Seats. And what we have now in Y is batter described as torture. In a way, international first (at least pe-COVID) was doing better than ever given the number of J seats in the air.

I'm personally glad about this. Sad to to see the whale retired from any fleet, but Air France's A380 J seat is from a different era. I got stuck on one coming out of ATL last summer due to a schedule change. Plane was great but didn't sleep well at all.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:50 pm

So for AF (or AF/KL) its either lose 500 Million Euros to write off the A380 fleet or 500 Million Euros to keep them flying for a few more years. Its a devils choice but the Pandemic has led to the once unthinkable. For sure there will be no need for A380s for them in the next year or more, A380's have less cargo space then big twins, they are a sub-fleet with its cost and in the long run, better to have too few seats than too many to keep up revenues needed for repayment of bailout loans and eke out a profit.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 12:59 pm

ltbewr wrote:
So for AF (or AF/KL) its either lose 500 Million Euros to write off the A380 fleet or 500 Million Euros to keep them flying for a few more years. Its a devils choice but the Pandemic has led to the once unthinkable. For sure there will be no need for A380s for them in the next year or more, A380's have less cargo space then big twins, they are a sub-fleet with its cost and in the long run, better to have too few seats than too many to keep up revenues needed for repayment of bailout loans and eke out a profit.

Except one is a paper loss and the other is an actual cash loss. Right now cash is king.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 1:06 pm

ltbewr wrote:
So for AF (or AF/KL) its either lose 500 Million Euros to write off the A380 fleet or 500 Million Euros to keep them flying for a few more years. Its a devils choice but the Pandemic has led to the once unthinkable. For sure there will be no need for A380s for them in the next year or more, A380's have less cargo space then big twins, they are a sub-fleet with its cost and in the long run, better to have too few seats than too many to keep up revenues needed for repayment of bailout loans and eke out a profit.

The difference is writing off the A380s is a paper loss (most if not all of the actual money has already been spent) whereas keeping them flying will require AF to find EUR 500M of actual cash, which is very difficult to do under the circumstances. Given the pandemic, it's a good time to bury the paper losses amongst the other losses and clean up the balance sheet for (hopefully) better times to come.

We've also seen LH and QF say that they are retiring some but not all of their A380s, KL and QF 744s are gone, etc. Good time to get rid of underperforming assets, I would think.

It also supports why EK is trying to not take their last five A380s -- who is going to want to finance five new planes that the market is retiring en masse? A lot of the furnishings of an aircraft are provided by the airlines, and EK is probably having to find the cash to furnish the last five A380s at a time they're having to lay off 30% of their employees. It's not a good place to be.
Last edited by Revelation on Thu May 21, 2020 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ltbewr
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 1:07 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
So for AF (or AF/KL) its either lose 500 Million Euros to write off the A380 fleet or 500 Million Euros to keep them flying for a few more years. Its a devils choice but the Pandemic has led to the once unthinkable. For sure there will be no need for A380s for them in the next year or more, A380's have less cargo space then big twins, they are a sub-fleet with its cost and in the long run, better to have too few seats than too many to keep up revenues needed for repayment of bailout loans and eke out a profit.

Except one is a paper loss and the other is an actual cash loss. Right now cash is king.

The need for cash now and for the next year is the tipping point for AF's decision. Perhaps too it may be a condition of any loans or financial help from the French government.
 
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gdg9
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 1:22 pm

VV wrote:
MrBren wrote:
So sad, the A380 is so quiet compared to the noisy 777s.


And it will be even quieter on the ground, in storage.


That made me laugh!
@dfwtower
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 1:49 pm

In before the mods close this thread and tell us to move over to a generic thread about AF/KL that already has multiple pages of other random stuff and just a little blurb about this important event...but it's obviously more important to merge ANYTHING having to do with AF/KL into one mega-thread...
 
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 1:55 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
In before the mods close this thread and tell us to move over to a generic thread about AF/KL that already has multiple pages of other random stuff and just a little blurb about this important event...but it's obviously more important to merge ANYTHING having to do with AF/KL into one mega-thread...

Clearly we won't be closing the thread. We discussed the issue and decided it needed its own thread. Would you rather we not be able to admit when we're wrong? Now, please discuss the topic. If you have further comments, please make them in the Site Related Forum.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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GlobalAirways
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 2:04 pm

How quickly things can change. Just a year ago we were talking about the 787's going to KLM and now this...
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CX747
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 3:09 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Who would have predicted that more 747 will be flying into 2020s?

Unlike many here on A.net, the 747-8 program is very successful one financially. Infrastructure was already paid for from prior 747 program and newer technology was inherited from the 787. I.e. engines. This is how I see it, 50% less orders but with less than 10% of development cost to that of the A380.


Not many would have predicted a greater number of 747s flying the globe in the 2020s over the A380. With its role as a freighter the 747 will continue to play a major role in aviation as the A380 fleet becomes a smaller and smaller entity.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Antarius
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 3:24 pm

CX747 wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Who would have predicted that more 747 will be flying into 2020s?

Unlike many here on A.net, the 747-8 program is very successful one financially. Infrastructure was already paid for from prior 747 program and newer technology was inherited from the 787. I.e. engines. This is how I see it, 50% less orders but with less than 10% of development cost to that of the A380.


Not many would have predicted a greater number of 747s flying the globe in the 2020s over the A380. With its role as a freighter the 747 will continue to play a major role in aviation as the A380 fleet becomes a smaller and smaller entity.


I think the number is higher than you'd think. Many of us have felt that the a380 was a financial disaster and once egos cooled and EK hit some maturity, it was dead in the water. Launching the a380 in the mid-2000s is akin to Ford bringing a Steam powered car. Obsolete as the 77W had sapped up the market.

Marvelous piece of engineering, but what a waste. Heck, HP buying and writing off Autonomy for 9.5 billion was a better decision.
Last edited by Antarius on Thu May 21, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Prost
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 3:26 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
Except one is a paper loss and the other is an actual cash loss. Right now cash is king.


Does that hold true for the 5 frames that they are leasing? That will be cash out to meet their lease obligations, or did I miss something on my rudimentary accounting course 35 years ago? (Hint: I didn’t pay that close attention to the class, so it’s probably me)
 
CX747
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 3:30 pm

moa999 wrote:
Just wait on the numbers flying.
Neither program has been successfull.

If anything given Covid, i suspect the 748 has saved Airbus. Just imagine if there was on order book for 50 A380s at present.


Far more 747s flying right now than A380s. No way it "saved" the A380. Those 50 frames not ordered is less revenue generated by a program and higher costs overall that Airbus has had to cover.

Time will tell but I believe the death knell of the A380 has begun in earnest. The Queen will have been in production before, during and more than likely, after an attempt to steal the crown.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Arion640
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 3:38 pm

Noshow wrote:
Air France used to be THE very hub airline to me. How many times did I go via CDG to the States on packed flights? With all those 747, 777 and the A380.
Now they shrink down to smaller twins in size. Shocking to see this in some way.


Pre Norwegian days probably?

AMS and LHR (LHR depending on what terminal) is also a far better place to connect at.
 
Arion640
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 3:46 pm

CX747 wrote:
moa999 wrote:
Just wait on the numbers flying.
Neither program has been successfull.

If anything given Covid, i suspect the 748 has saved Airbus. Just imagine if there was on order book for 50 A380s at present.


Far more 747s flying right now than A380s. No way it "saved" the A380. Those 50 frames not ordered is less revenue generated by a program and higher costs overall that Airbus has had to cover.

Time will tell but I believe the death knell of the A380 has begun in earnest. The Queen will have been in production before, during and more than likely, after an attempt to steal the crown.


The queen you’re thinking of never had the crown, that always went to a supersonic airliner!
 
ikramerica
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:05 pm

2175301 wrote:
It will be very interesting to see how many A380's will return to service in the next year or so. Who would have thought that the replacement for the A380 would be an A350?

Have a great day,

Many many people here on A.net, that’s who.

The A380 prioritizes mass passengers over cargo.

Boeing saw this mistake early on and made the 787 have lots of cargo space, more per pax than the 77W.

Airbus made sure the A350 was also much more cargo capable too.

And the A350 is much more economical so once the A359 and A350-1000 proved themselves, the A380 was dead at AF and other carriers.
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:07 pm

Antarius wrote:
I think the number is higher than you'd think. Many of us have felt that the a380 was a financial disaster and once egos cooled and EK hit some maturity, it was dead in the water. Launching the a380 in the mid-2000s is akin to Ford bringing a Steam powered car. Obsolete as the 77W had sapped up the market.

Marvelous piece of engineering, but what a waste. Heck, HP buying and writing off Autonomy for 9.5 billion was a better decision.

If there wasn't enough information to understand all of that, the fact that they could not get enough customer buy ins to do a NEO or even wingtip optimizations in the mid 2010s should have been enough to understand it was not long for this world.

leghorn wrote:
It is broadly accepted that the A380 is a great plane if you could only fill the f***ing thing.
You'd think that if resale prices drop enough that it would find a market servicing morning/evening slots on routes between Metropolises around the world.
Not necessarily very distant ones on separate Continents.
The mindset would have to change from if it isn't flying it isn't making money to if it isn't flying when full it isn't losing money.

If you think that, you're somehow seeing the world differently than the major airlines are, many of whom already have A380s with very little cost of ownership left to pay on them.

There are very few city pairs where the demand for seats pushes the A380 from the red to the black ink. It's hard to get 500+ people who all want to go to the same place at the same time and are willing to spend $$$ to do so.

It's not going to get better as competitors are now flying aircraft that are more structurally efficient and have generation newer engines. A380 will not be getting any more efficient and as it ages its maintenance costs are going to go up.
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bpat777
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:10 pm

VV wrote:
MrBren wrote:
So sad, the A380 is so quiet compared to the noisy 777s.


And it will be even quieter on the ground, in storage.


That was a good comeback. Made me actually lol.
 
UA444
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:18 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Who would have predicted that more 747 will be flying into 2020s?

Unlike many here on A.net, the 747-8 program is very successful one financially. Infrastructure was already paid for from prior 747 program and newer technology was inherited from the 787. I.e. engines. This is how I see it, 50% less orders but with less than 10% of development cost to that of the A380.

747-8 isn’t even dead, either. Boeing still accepts new orders and has a backlog for another 2 years.
 
Strato2
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:26 pm

Jefford717 wrote:

Unlike many here on A.net, the 747-8 program is very successful one financially.


Uh no it's not. Boeing has taken several charges on the 747-8 for all the financial pain it has put Boeing into.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:51 pm

The A380 was tuition money for Airbus to extend its expertise.

Many of these expenditures resulted in failure. These failures taught Airbus lessons.

The A350 was the result of those lessons. Put another way, the A380 was unnecessary if Airbus management already knew the airline market conditions annd thesolutions to its technology/coordination issues.
But they did not, so they had to go through thisordeal in order to grow their expertise in today's era.

Boeing also went through basically the same challenges with 787/748 Pax/737 Max. One might argue that superior management could have avoided all of the wrong turns on thier journey. But neither company had this superior leadership in place, so instead, they floundered. e
 
NassAir
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 4:56 pm

Very Sad news for the A380.

I'm sharing with you the last landing from the cockpit, of one of AF A380's, at Teruel, Spain (Tarmac Aerosave) for Storage, completing a flight from Paris CDG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm0McB3t3r4&t=10s
NSH
 
Antarius
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 5:00 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The A380 was tuition money for Airbus to extend its expertise.

Many of these expenditures resulted in failure. These failures taught Airbus lessons.

The A350 was the result of those lessons. Put another way, the A380 was unnecessary if Airbus management already knew the airline market conditions annd thesolutions to its technology/coordination issues.
But they did not, so they had to go through thisordeal in order to grow their expertise in today's era.

Boeing also went through basically the same challenges with 787/748 Pax/737 Max. One might argue that superior management could have avoided all of the wrong turns on thier journey. But neither company had this superior leadership in place, so instead, they floundered. e


Both companies went through it, although I don't think we can lump the 787/748 Pax/737 Max in one sentence. The 737MAX and 748 are similar but with differences. I don't agree that the a380 was necessary to build the a350. It was necessary to build the a350as fast as they did, but if Airbus had gone for the a350 earlier, they may have been able to bring it to market sooner.

Boeing got the 787 spot on. Yes, they had production issues, but they read the market perfectly and built the right plane for the right time. Airbus went chasing ghosts with the a380 and made a mess. Advantage: Boeing

The 748 was a reactionary move to the a380 in the same way the a330neo is to the 787. Low cost, keeps pricing down for the competition. Advantage: Tie

The 737MAX was closer to the 748/a330neo as it was also reactionary to the a320neo family. The difference is, Boeing completely shit the bed on it with execution while Airbus hit a grand slam. Advantage: Airbus.
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luckyone
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 5:04 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The A380 was tuition money for Airbus to extend its expertise.

Many of these expenditures resulted in failure. These failures taught Airbus lessons.

The A350 was the result of those lessons. Put another way, the A380 was unnecessary if Airbus management already knew the airline market conditions annd thesolutions to its technology/coordination issues.
But they did not, so they had to go through thisordeal in order to grow their expertise in today's era.

Boeing also went through basically the same challenges with 787/748 Pax/737 Max. One might argue that superior management could have avoided all of the wrong turns on thier journey. But neither company had this superior leadership in place, so instead, they floundered. e

Airbus didn't need to spend billions building an EVOlutionary plane (A380) to gain skills to build a REVOlutionary plane (A350). If anything, the A380 tied up their resources and slowed down their ability to create the A350 as it is currently sold. Let's not forget that the A350 1.0 was a warmed over A330 that the market resoundly rejected at the time.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 5:24 pm

not a surprising move! even before this Covid19 thing, AF did nothing to improve the on board product on the A380. Despite the plane flying on premium routes, the plane had their old product. First was standard in their fleet, their J seat was old and extremely outdated, i heard more complaints about their W compared to Y..not good!!

I guess this pandemic is killing the A380 a lot faster than expected. bye bye 4-engine planes!
 
NassAir
Posts: 8
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 5:36 pm

NassAir wrote:
Very Sad news for the A380.

I'm sharing with you the last landing from the cockpit, of one of AF A380's, at Teruel, Spain (Tarmac Aerosave) for Storage, completing a flight from Paris CDG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm0McB3t3r4&t=10s


And here is the take off from Paris CDG, Cockpit view + ATC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1w4L6HBlZ8
NSH
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 5:44 pm

Arion640 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
moa999 wrote:
Just wait on the numbers flying.
Neither program has been successfull.

If anything given Covid, i suspect the 748 has saved Airbus. Just imagine if there was on order book for 50 A380s at present.


Far more 747s flying right now than A380s. No way it "saved" the A380. Those 50 frames not ordered is less revenue generated by a program and higher costs overall that Airbus has had to cover.

Time will tell but I believe the death knell of the A380 has begun in earnest. The Queen will have been in production before, during and more than likely, after an attempt to steal the crown.


The queen you’re thinking of never had the crown, that always went to a supersonic airliner!

I never thought to see more 747s flying in 2020 than A380.

Err, only two planes called the Queen of the skies. The B-17 and 747. Only a few here on a.net ever refer to the defunct Concorde by that name. So far, every queen has been subsonic.


There have been proposals for a connecting terminal, with new supporting runways, at CDG. They are less serious than runway #3 at LHR. But with that terminal, CDG would be a major connecting hub.

That might or might not have saved these A380s.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
leghorn
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 6:06 pm

Revelation wrote:
Antarius wrote:
I think the number is higher than you'd think. Many of us have felt that the a380 was a financial disaster and once egos cooled and EK hit some maturity, it was dead in the water. Launching the a380 in the mid-2000s is akin to Ford bringing a Steam powered car. Obsolete as the 77W had sapped up the market.

Marvelous piece of engineering, but what a waste. Heck, HP buying and writing off Autonomy for 9.5 billion was a better decision.

If there wasn't enough information to understand all of that, the fact that they could not get enough customer buy ins to do a NEO or even wingtip optimizations in the mid 2010s should have been enough to understand it was not long for this world.

leghorn wrote:
It is broadly accepted that the A380 is a great plane if you could only fill the f***ing thing.
You'd think that if resale prices drop enough that it would find a market servicing morning/evening slots on routes between Metropolises around the world.
Not necessarily very distant ones on separate Continents.
The mindset would have to change from if it isn't flying it isn't making money to if it isn't flying when full it isn't losing money.

If you think that, you're somehow seeing the world differently than the major airlines are, many of whom already have A380s with very little cost of ownership left to pay on them.

There are very few city pairs where the demand for seats pushes the A380 from the red to the black ink. It's hard to get 500+ people who all want to go to the same place at the same time and are willing to spend $$$ to do so.

It's not going to get better as competitors are now flying aircraft that are more structurally efficient and have generation newer engines. A380 will not be getting any more efficient and as it ages its maintenance costs are going to go up.

https://leehamnews.com/2016/01/18/iag-i ... used-a380/

I didn't just make it up, you know. It has been said by an owner of the planes so I am not seeing things differently to the rest of the world. Think before you type.
It is a Great Plane if you can fill it.
 
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Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 6:15 pm

The 748 was built to add pricing pressure on the A380, similar to how the A330neo does the same with the 787. Boeing launched the 748F first, which tells you something else. The 748F ain't dead yet.
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
CX747
Posts: 6253
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air France to retire A380 fleet effective immediately

Thu May 21, 2020 6:22 pm

Just did a check...there are more 747s flying today, than all Airbus A330/350s combined......if you were told to, "bet the farm" on that 6 months ago, you would call the other person crazy.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
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