dcajet
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Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:09 pm

Effective 14 July 2020, Turkish Airlines will deploy their new A350-900 on the IST-GRU-EZE route; both airports will join LHR, LAX, DXB and ICN on the list of destinations for TK's A359. It will replace the current 777-300ER. In terms of capacity, it will be a small reduction from the 77W's 49C/300Y to the A359's 32C/297Y, but a better premium pax-ex with a 1-2-1 config in Business class (2-3-2 currently on the 77W).
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readytotaxi
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:46 pm

What drives the Turkish market in South America?
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BooDog
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:07 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
What drives the Turkish market in South America?


Istanbul is the Turkish AIrlines megahub. The flight to South America could purely be for connecting purposes.
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dcajet
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:14 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
What drives the Turkish market in South America?


1. Very competitive fares to the whole of Europe, CIS, Middle East & Asia with superior service in all cabins. On the lengthier layovers at IST, TK will throw in a free hotel stay with a city tour. Not sure about Brazil, but Argentine passport holders enjoy visa free travel to Turkey. I'd imagine it's the same for Brazil.

2. Tel Aviv, particularly from Buenos Aires

3. Istanbul & Turkey overall are also destinations for tourism from both Argentina and Brazil

It should also be noted that TK also serves BOG & CCS in South America and PTY and HAV in Central America/Caribbean. but I am not familiar enough with their business there.
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Tailwinds13
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:28 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
What drives the Turkish market in South America?


Turkish carries a large chunk of traffic as transfers to Israel. I believe they are the foreign carrier with the largest presence at TLV and hold a good chunk of the market to Israel along with IB.
 
x1234
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:17 pm

Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.
 
dozerman
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:35 pm

x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.
 
pnut
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:06 pm

dozerman wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.


IST-GRU is shorter than IST-PTY, and IIRC that was flown by an A332. Didn't TK have A340s as well?
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dozerman
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:29 pm

pnut wrote:
dozerman wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.


IST-GRU is shorter than IST-PTY, and IIRC that was flown by an A332. Didn't TK have A340s as well?


PTY-IST is flown eastbound only, which is a much shorter flight. But they still flew IST-BOG which is still slightly longer than IST-GRU.

TK started using the A332 on these very long flights only in the recent years, in newly introduced routes with relatively minimal competition. And their A332s didn't have lie flat seats in business class until recently. They also only have 5 of these long range configured A332s, which is barely enough to run the HAV, CCS, PTY and BOG routes. The IST-GRU flight has been around for years, I guess A332 was probably too small and not premium enough.

I believe they actually flew the A340 to GRU at some point. The A340 is retired now but in their final years these were reconfigured as Y only and operated only for hadj and charter flights.
Last edited by dozerman on Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:35 pm

dozerman wrote:

I believe they actually flew the A340 to GRU at some point. The A340 is retired now but in their final years these were reconfigured as Y only and operated only for hadj and charter flights.


Correct. IST-GRU-EZE (initially IST-GRU only) was flown when first launched with the A343. It was later upgauged to the 77W. The A332 is too small, not premium enough and, most likely, lacks the range to fly IST-GRU without penalties.
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emre787
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:11 pm

dcajet wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
What drives the Turkish market in South America?


1. Very competitive fares to the whole of Europe, CIS, Middle East & Asia with superior service in all cabins. On the lengthier layovers at IST, TK will throw in a free hotel stay with a city tour. Not sure about Brazil, but Argentine passport holders enjoy visa free travel to Turkey. I'd imagine it's the same for Brazil.

2. Tel Aviv, particularly from Buenos Aires

3. Istanbul & Turkey overall are also destinations for tourism from both Argentina and Brazil

It should also be noted that TK also serves BOG & CCS in South America and PTY and HAV in Central America/Caribbean. but I am not familiar enough with their business there.


Those 4 destinations actually work really well for TK. After the introduction of IST-MEX-CUN-IST with the 787-9, they also upgraded IST-PTY-BOG-IST onto the 787-9. Lastly, the IST-HAV-CCS-IST flights will also eventually get to see the new Dreamliner.

Heck, there's even so much demand from Caracas that they added another 2x weekly direct A330 flights despite the ongoing situation there :o

Only Buenos Aires couldn't sustain a 77W capacity as mentioned before. Therefore, TK reduced the GRU-EZE sector from daily to 4x weekly. Sao Paulo seems to be good
 
pnut
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:23 pm

dozerman wrote:
pnut wrote:
dozerman wrote:

If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.


IST-GRU is shorter than IST-PTY, and IIRC that was flown by an A332. Didn't TK have A340s as well?


PTY-IST is flown eastbound only, which is a much shorter flight. But they still flew IST-BOG which is still slightly longer than IST-GRU.

TK started using the A332 on these very long flights only in the recent years, in newly introduced routes with relatively minimal competition. And their A332s didn't have lie flat seats in business class until recently. They also only have 5 of these long range configured A332s, which is barely enough to run the HAV, CCS, PTY and BOG routes. The IST-GRU flight has been around for years, I guess A332 was probably too small and not premium enough.

I believe they actually flew the A340 to GRU at some point. The A340 is retired now but in their final years these were reconfigured as Y only and operated only for hadj and charter flights.


Ah, thanks for the info! I'd love to find out more about TK's use of the A340s during their prime. I'll look at some archives and other forums. If you have any anecdotal info about them, I'm all ears! -sorry for going off-topic.
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RAGAZZO777
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:45 am

emre787 wrote:
Only Buenos Aires couldn't sustain a 77W capacity as mentioned before. Therefore, TK reduced the GRU-EZE sector from daily to 4x weekly. Sao Paulo seems to be good


Hardly surprising...
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ist2014
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:45 am

Gru started as ist-dakar- gru by A332/340, later changed as ist-gru-eze by A340
When TK decided to phased out A343 in 2014s, it has been switched to 77W since TK did not have any other plane for it. It had a load factor around 70% which means 77W was too big for route, i had the opinion of that it should switch to 787 which means a very good load factor.
I had the opinion that TK should order around 7 b788 as well for thin routes but never materialized and they decided for all 789
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:07 pm

emre787 wrote:
Only Buenos Aires couldn't sustain a 77W capacity as mentioned before. Therefore, TK reduced the GRU-EZE sector from daily to 4x weekly. Sao Paulo seems to be good


Let me qualify your statement a bit further if I may. Argentina is not suffering from an overall and acute lack of demand, but rather, a softening of premium demand and depressed yields, due to mainly yet another economic crisis (#14536 and counting...). Turkish has no problems filling a 777 at EZE, their problem is doing it so with good yields. Compounding TK's issues is the super intense competition to both Europe and Sao Paulo from Argentina both from the low costs (LEVEL, Norwegian to Europe) and having 10 carriers competing between BUE and SAO, with Ethiopian currently offering the lowest fares out of EZE.

On the plus side, Ethiopian just added another weekly frequency at EZE (5x w) and Emirates is upgauging the EZE-GIG-DXB back to the 77W as of next month.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:22 pm

Apart from Turkey itself, TK has great connections to Asia, the Middle East, Russia, Central Asia and Eastern Europe.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:59 pm

dozerman wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.

This is probably right sizing and getting the fuel bill down.

So where is the 77W going?

Lightsaber
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emre787
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dozerman wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.

This is probably right sizing and getting the fuel bill down.

So where is the 77W going?

Lightsaber


Not yet know so far. I think another frequency to North America or upgauge of an A333
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:12 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dozerman wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.

This is probably right sizing and getting the fuel bill down.

So where is the 77W going?

Lightsaber



The only notable capacity difference is in business class: 49 on the 77W v. 32 on the A359. Economy is the same (300 v. 297). But with a superior cabin and less capacity in C, I'd think TK is looking to fetch better premium yields up front.
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incitatus
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:00 pm

There is a lot more to TK in Brazil. It takes a good share of Brazilians that cruise out of Greece. It serves the Middle Eastern population that immigrated to Brazil. Then there is China. I heard from inside TK that this route makes no money.
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emre787
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Re: Turkish to fly to EZE & GRU with the A359

Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:34 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dozerman wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Remember Jet Fuel is the MOST expensive in Latin America so they're trying to reduce their fuel bill by putting the A359 on the route.


If that was the only concern the 787 would already be flying there. The A359 is probably the most appropriate size for this route. The current 77W was probably too much capacity (especially for the GRU-EZE sector) and it was the only aircraft in TK's fleet capable of this route, until they received 787 and A350s.

This is probably right sizing and getting the fuel bill down.

So where is the 77W going?

Lightsaber


Thanks to airlineroute we know where the 777(s) will go now (IST-GRU-EZE requires 2 77Ws at one time so 2 777s actually).

Washingtons current daily 787 will be upgraded to a 77W, although there still will be the new 3x weekly 789 service alongside.
Planned increase at Los Angeles should have been 3x weekly A359, but now there will be 4x weekly additional flights to LAX with the 789.
Last but not least, 4 of the 11x weekly flights to Seoul will be upgauged to 77W. The A359s were planned on those flights too actually.

So it seems like the A359s for the route are coming from LAX and ICN :)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2020/

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