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345tas
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LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:41 am

El Al is apparently going to test flights from TLV to MEL early in the new year, subject to regulatory approvals.

Presumably with a 789 (the article doesn't specify the variant). They say it's about 16hr 45m to MEL and 17hr 45m return. I imagine slightly longer for having to scoot down the Red Sea (unless they take a more southerly route?). https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340, ... 16,00.html

Only in Hebrew atm but I'm sure English will follow soon. The Israelis on the forum will probably be able to extract more interesting information from the article than my sketchy Hebrew.

Melbourne-Israel traffic is apparently a nice earner for CX on their TLV route, so they probably won't be chuffed.
 
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OA260
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:44 am

That will be an interesting route if they succeed.
 
flybaby
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:08 am

The “scooting” around Saudi will probably add about 40 minutes flight time.

The most direct route would pass almost exactly over RUH.
 
smi0006
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:31 am

What does trial flights mean? How many?

LY security requirements have rumoured to previously been a sticking point flying into AU airports (armed guards, apron monitoring, checkin process) and be curious to see how they have been overcome.
 
sevenair
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:54 am

Would ElAl ever do connections? Could this be another kangaroo route option?
 
pabloeing
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:13 am

Fantastic news...another option from Europe to travel to down under
 
melpax
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:38 am

Interesting, probably enough demand for a 2-3 flights a week frequency with the large Jewish community here, and there seems to be quite a few Israeli backpackers here as well.
 
kaitak
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:47 am

smi0006 wrote:
What does trial flights mean? How many?

LY security requirements have rumoured to previously been a sticking point flying into AU airports (armed guards, apron monitoring, checkin process) and be curious to see how they have been overcome.


This doesn't happen at every airport; I'm sure the Aussies will be prepared to provide a certain level of security - at a cost. From a technical point of view - and subject to the M/E overflight issue, it should be within the range of a 789, of which LY now has a pretty decent sized fleet.

Here's the G/C map: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tlv-mel

Would a flight south, over the red sea and the Gulf of Aden add such a significant distance as to render it outside the range? Very doubtful.

In any case, a Saudi overflight might not be out of the question; relations between the Saudis and the Israelis as not quite as frosty as they once were.
 
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OA940
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:28 pm

Pretty interesting, and definitely very cool. Let's hope they do end up launching flights
A350/CSeries = bae
 
jfk777
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:30 pm

This would be EL AL's longest flight by about 4 hours.
 
jsfr
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:42 pm

Oz East Coast to Mediterranean non-stop scheduled flights... wow.

What is TK waiting for?
 
x1234
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:32 pm

Weird that they’re not launching Sydney flights as they have more tourist and business potential. Is the Jewish population higher in MEL versus SYD!?
 
a320fan
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:33 pm

Cool flight, I hope its a success. With quite a large and pretty wealthy Jewish community in Melbourne including at least one ultra orthodox neighbourhood as a base alongside inbound and outbound tourism I can see this flight working at 2/3 times a week. Keen to hear more news on this and what they mean by a trial. Limited ‘seasonal’ type operation or more of a charter service.
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PDXpat
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:06 pm

More realistic time distance estimate would be using TLV-JIB-MEL routing. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tlv-jib-me ... 2%25U%2212
And here is a good article in English on the announcement. https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001308764.
 
345tas
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:26 pm

x1234 wrote:
Weird that they’re not launching Sydney flights as they have more tourist and business potential. Is the Jewish population higher in MEL versus SYD!?


Yes the Jewish community in Melbourne is larger. Also LY codeshare with QF, an agreement I assume will be updated to include some QF domestic legs from Melbourne if the flights ago ahead (to SYD and NZ perhaps).

Melbourne is also a popular city for techs/fintechs, which often generates TLV traffic (e.g. LY and UA both starting SFO-TLV in the last couple of years).

smi0006 wrote:

LY security requirements have rumoured to previously been a sticking point flying into AU airports (armed guards, apron monitoring, checkin process) and be curious to see how they have been overcome.


I don't see why there would be any particular issues with this in Australia vs all the other countries LY operates to.
 
345tas
Topic Author
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:30 pm

sevenair wrote:
Would ElAl ever do connections? Could this be another kangaroo route option?


With LY's Europe network, theoretically yes. But with LY's prices, I don't see it becoming a very popular option unless you're rich and for some reason want service that is substandard to what you'd get on SQ, EK etc etc.
 
Obzerva
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:15 pm

sevenair wrote:
Would ElAl ever do connections? Could this be another kangaroo route option?


I wouldn’t recommend it.
Last time I travelled to TLV it involved a 20min interview before I could even join the check in line, anyone who has previously visited certain countries would get special attention, in my case it was Malaysia.

After check in was also then personally escorted through security and then directly to the aerobridge.

I get the enhanced level of security they require, but from a traveller perspective it’s not enjoyable, you’d only board a TLV flight if your destination is Israel.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:52 pm

x1234 wrote:
Weird that they’re not launching Sydney flights as they have more tourist and business potential. Is the Jewish population higher in MEL versus SYD!?


Not everything in Australia starts and ends in Sydney, as much as some would like everyone to believe.

Melbourne has a significant share of the tech industry, which would certainly help, along with the Victorian government having a trade office in TLV which would further build relations.

The Jewish population is slightly larger in Melbourne, but added to that is that MEL is a shorter flight distance and is close to the size of Sydney in terms of overall population. Tourism is also a significant industry in Melbourne, with a significant increase in demand over the past 10 years.

Hope the trial works out well for them.
 
smi0006
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:03 pm

345tas wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Weird that they’re not launching Sydney flights as they have more tourist and business potential. Is the Jewish population higher in MEL versus SYD!?


Yes the Jewish community in Melbourne is larger. Also LY codeshare with QF, an agreement I assume will be updated to include some QF domestic legs from Melbourne if the flights ago ahead (to SYD and NZ perhaps).

Melbourne is also a popular city for techs/fintechs, which often generates TLV traffic (e.g. LY and UA both starting SFO-TLV in the last couple of years).

smi0006 wrote:

LY security requirements have rumoured to previously been a sticking point flying into AU airports (armed guards, apron monitoring, checkin process) and be curious to see how they have been overcome.


I don't see why there would be any particular issues with this in Australia vs all the other countries LY operates to.


As I recall rumour was Australian office of transport security felt Australian security standards were high enough, and LY security would present a burden on airport operations- and thus rejected their request for additional layers. But this just a rumour and appears even if true to have been cleared up.

Hopefully these flights are at a minimum seasonal and last a few months- 3weekly could work, but expensive for crew costs. Hopefully more substance not like OZ ICN-MEL trail flights which are simply three charters in Jan.
 
sevenair
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:07 pm

It's true. Perhaps TLV isn't the best place to connect. I've never done it and to be honest it never shows as an option when looking for flights to the east so I've never thought about it.

Still. Connections or not this is really exciting!
 
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OA260
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:44 pm

Obzerva wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Would ElAl ever do connections? Could this be another kangaroo route option?


I wouldn’t recommend it.
Last time I travelled to TLV it involved a 20min interview before I could even join the check in line, anyone who has previously visited certain countries would get special attention, in my case it was Malaysia.

After check in was also then personally escorted through security and then directly to the aerobridge.

I get the enhanced level of security they require, but from a traveller perspective it’s not enjoyable, you’d only board a TLV flight if your destination is Israel.


I have been three times to TLV and while security is tight and the interview is quite thorough I never felt intimidated. Without knowing ethnicity , passport traveling on and other personal details its hard to know why they felt an escort to the gate was the way to go. My passport has Lebanese stamps and whilst I was questioned about them it was not an issue.
 
QF742
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:13 pm

Some have pointed out the Jewish community in Melbourne, however there are only about 60,000 Jewish people in Melbourne - so it’s not enough to fill up the plane! From my anecdotal observation, I know of quite a few people who travel regularly to Israel for business in a number of different industries.

As a side note it is notoriously difficult to get to TLV from Australia, often involving long layovers. The best option is CX via HKG and there is usually a price premium on that option. So maybe el al is onto something?
 
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chepos
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:09 pm

LY an option between MEL and Europe? Based on the ground experience alone I would immediately discard LY if not going to Israel. I personally flew them out of LAX, by the end of the whole ordeal I thought they were going to throw me in jail, just for trying to board an LY flight. With all the options out of Australia they would have to be much much much cheaper on the kangaroo route for anyone to want to endure the LY experience.


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32andBelow
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:21 pm

So many flights can be filled with religious tours and birthright trips on top of business and tourism.
 
tullamarine
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:50 pm

x1234 wrote:
Weird that they’re not launching Sydney flights as they have more tourist and business potential. Is the Jewish population higher in MEL versus SYD!?

Apart from the higher Jewish diaspora in MEL, it is also 400kms less flying distance. That these flights can be done with standard 789s or A359s makes you see just how tiny the market for ULR aircraft like A35JXLR and 778 really is.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
smi0006
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:00 am

QF742 wrote:
Some have pointed out the Jewish community in Melbourne, however there are only about 60,000 Jewish people in Melbourne - so it’s not enough to fill up the plane! From my anecdotal observation, I know of quite a few people who travel regularly to Israel for business in a number of different industries.

As a side note it is notoriously difficult to get to TLV from Australia, often involving long layovers. The best option is CX via HKG and there is usually a price premium on that option. So maybe el al is onto something?


That’s surprising I always heard that Melbourne had a rather high Jewish community. Not on the scale of the states - but other than 60,000. Curious.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 135
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:11 am

El Al would have been much better off flying to SIN and codesharing with QF and JQ ex SIN.
 
gardermoen
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:15 am

An already suffering Cathay Pacific is now going to be suffering a lot more if this becomes permanent.
 
QF742
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:28 am

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
El Al would have been much better off flying to SIN and codesharing with QF and JQ ex SIN.


I don’t think LY is able to fly into Singapore given the constraints of being unable to overfly Indonesian and Malaysian airspace.
 
QF742
Posts: 200
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:31 am

smi0006 wrote:
QF742 wrote:
Some have pointed out the Jewish community in Melbourne, however there are only about 60,000 Jewish people in Melbourne - so it’s not enough to fill up the plane! From my anecdotal observation, I know of quite a few people who travel regularly to Israel for business in a number of different industries.

As a side note it is notoriously difficult to get to TLV from Australia, often involving long layovers. The best option is CX via HKG and there is usually a price premium on that option. So maybe el al is onto something?


That’s surprising I always heard that Melbourne had a rather high Jewish community. Not on the scale of the states - but other than 60,000. Curious.


The last census recorded the population Australia wide at about 91,000. This figure is generally known to be an under estimate as many do not want to declare religion on the census. Most estimates are in the range of 120-150k Australia wide, with about 50% in Melbourne. Sydney is the next highest and then Perth (mainly South African Jewish immigrants).
 
Planes4you
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:08 am

x1234 wrote:
Weird that they’re not launching Sydney flights as they have more tourist and business potential. Is the Jewish population higher in MEL versus SYD!?


A bigger city doesn’t always mean there’ll be a bigger demographic of certain people in smaller cities
 
Obzerva
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:26 am

OA260 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Would ElAl ever do connections? Could this be another kangaroo route option?


I wouldn’t recommend it.
Last time I travelled to TLV it involved a 20min interview before I could even join the check in line, anyone who has previously visited certain countries would get special attention, in my case it was Malaysia.

After check in was also then personally escorted through security and then directly to the aerobridge.

I get the enhanced level of security they require, but from a traveller perspective it’s not enjoyable, you’d only board a TLV flight if your destination is Israel.


I have been three times to TLV and while security is tight and the interview is quite thorough I never felt intimidated. Without knowing ethnicity , passport traveling on and other personal details its hard to know why they felt an escort to the gate was the way to go. My passport has Lebanese stamps and whilst I was questioned about them it was not an issue.


I think in my instance it’s because I was travelling on an Australian passport on a non typical route (GYD-TLV), compared to a plane full of passengers holding Israeli passports I probably stood out.

I think the escort to the aerobridge wasn’t necessarily about me, but to ensure I had no contact with anyone else in the terminal.

As I said, I understand the reasons behind the measure, it’s unfortunate we live in a world where that is required.

To the original question of would passengers using the flight as a transfer option, given the choice of having a less cumbersome experience, I’d opt for that rather than the extra security measures.
 
windycity613
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:17 am

Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:40 pm

345tas wrote:
El Al is apparently going to test flights from TLV to MEL early in the new year, subject to regulatory approvals.

Presumably with a 789 (the article doesn't specify the variant). They say it's about 16hr 45m to MEL and 17hr 45m return. I imagine slightly longer for having to scoot down the Red Sea (unless they take a more southerly route?). https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340, ... 16,00.html

Only in Hebrew atm but I'm sure English will follow soon. The Israelis on the forum will probably be able to extract more interesting information from the article than my sketchy Hebrew.

Melbourne-Israel traffic is apparently a nice earner for CX on their TLV route, so they probably won't be chuffed.


English article
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001308764
 
COSPN
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:15 am

The Aussies refused gun permits for the security guards so LY could not fly to Australia. Hopefully they will change their mind and allow it the same as most other countries
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:38 am

https://www.ynetnews.com/travel/article/M4UIJDWT5

You couldn’t pay me to go on an El Al flight that long. Their IFE is absolutely abysmal. Not even sufficient for JFK-TLV. Not unless they’ve done a MAJOR upgrade since my last flight with them. The IFE was abysmal, and the in flight service was a joke...a bad one at that.

Marc
 
Galwayman
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:27 am

jsfr wrote:
Oz East Coast to Mediterranean non-stop scheduled flights... wow.

What is TK waiting for?


Agreed, this is very much TK’s cake to eat big time
 
Galwayman
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:30 am

If there any sort of market Jordanian should look at flights from Amman ... would avoid the security and rerouting drama
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:33 am

COSPN wrote:
The Aussies refused gun permits for the security guards so LY could not fly to Australia. Hopefully they will change their mind and allow it the same as most other countries


Can't they simply pay the Australian police for the security coverage? Last time I checked at LHR the check in was guarded by armed Metropolitan Police.
 
LY777
Posts: 2592
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:20 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
https://www.ynetnews.com/travel/article/M4UIJDWT5

You couldn’t pay me to go on an El Al flight that long. Their IFE is absolutely abysmal. Not even sufficient for JFK-TLV. Not unless they’ve done a MAJOR upgrade since my last flight with them. The IFE was abysmal, and the in flight service was a joke...a bad one at that.

Marc



Their new 787s are state of the art
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2259
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Re: LY testing Melbourne flights

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:27 pm

LY777 wrote:
Cadet985 wrote:
https://www.ynetnews.com/travel/article/M4UIJDWT5

You couldn’t pay me to go on an El Al flight that long. Their IFE is absolutely abysmal. Not even sufficient for JFK-TLV. Not unless they’ve done a MAJOR upgrade since my last flight with them. The IFE was abysmal, and the in flight service was a joke...a bad one at that.

Marc



Their new 787s are state of the art


What about IFE? Is it like on the 744’s and 772’s where it’s 20 channels on a loop and a few audio channels?

Marc

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