behramjee wrote:I can confirm after checking the GDS system that all HU HKG-YVR-HKG flights are zerod out for sale effective 09Dec.
The last flight that has seats available for sale is on Sat 07Dec.
SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
c933103 wrote:https://www.mpfinance.com/fin/instantf2.php?node=1574933433489&issue=20191128 (Chinese source)
After last month when HX axed their Los Angeles flight and reduced their Asian flight as a response to Hong Kong government's concern on their financial situation (not sure why the thread discussing this on Anet have been deleted), there are now rumor on the media that they are going to delay November salary payout by a week (the legal limit in Hong Kong law) and axe the Vancouver fligjt by December 2nd (which is still bookable for the time being). HX have not commented on the situation yet.
Ishrion wrote:behramjee wrote:I can confirm after checking the GDS system that all HU HKG-YVR-HKG flights are zerod out for sale effective 09Dec.
The last flight that has seats available for sale is on Sat 07Dec.
2019? Or 2020? HKG-LAX doesn’t even end until February 8, 2020.
RyanairGuru wrote:SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
On what warped planet does that make you happy?
People aren't going to be paid on-time, and if things in HK continue the way they are going then people will undoubtedly loose their jobs. Not to mention that people have died in the situation that has gotten the airport and airline to this point.
J343 wrote:Perfect opportunity for CX to grab the slots. But wait... look at the situation in HK, oh no!
Kidding.
Perhaps this will be an opportunity for CX to expand.
SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
Ishrion wrote:J343 wrote:Perfect opportunity for CX to grab the slots. But wait... look at the situation in HK, oh no!
Kidding.
Perhaps this will be an opportunity for CX to expand.
HKG is allowing carriers to retain slots even if they’re not using them.
itisi wrote:SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
What a truly sad person. Don't worry, HKIA will be back.
itisi wrote:SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
What a truly sad person. Don't worry, HKIA will be back.
zeke wrote:itisi wrote:SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
What a truly sad person. Don't worry, HKIA will be back.
I am sympathetic to SQ32 viewpoint as I think it is a result of censoring of news in mainland China. I think what we are seeing with Hong Kong Airlines is actually fairly representative of the true business situation within mainland China airlines. All of the mainland Chinese airlines have had a horrible year, we discussed it recently the massive loss of 3.1 billion on international routes alone viewtopic.php?t=1434035
Hong Kong Airlines has in my view been unfairly encumbered as the major shareholder the HNA group took cash out of the airline to try and fill problems elsewhere in the conglomerate. We have seen the HNA group have massive asset sales and even miss on bonds maturing. Numerous HNA group aircraft have not been picked up as they do not have the funds to pay for them. Hong Kong Airlines A350s have also been flown to France to put into storage. I have also heard that mainland Chinese airlines that have leased aircraft from Hong Kong Airlines have made things worse as they have fallen behind on their lease payments with their own financial problems.
November is traditionally a quiet time of year, and other recent events have put further pressure on loads.
zeke wrote:I wasn’t supporting the comment, I actually didn’t directly address that at all.
My comment was highlighting that people in mainland China source of information for external events is all controlled by the government, and I had empathy for their viewpoint as they just don’t know any better.
It would be far more constructive if members were to educate them so they can learn things their government prefers them not to know.
zakuivcustom wrote:zeke wrote:I wasn’t supporting the comment, I actually didn’t directly address that at all.
My comment was highlighting that people in mainland China source of information for external events is all controlled by the government, and I had empathy for their viewpoint as they just don’t know any better.
It would be far more constructive if members were to educate them so they can learn things their government prefers them not to know.
Getting off topic, but why do you think SQ32 is from mainland China instead of...well, Singapore? Singapore and Malaysia both have their fair shares of wumaos anyway.
I agree with your other post - HX had been in financial trouble for a long, long time. The secrecy of HNA Group dealing doesn’t help - quite frankly nobody knows where the money is, how they are being used, and whether they even have money.
zakuivcustom wrote:zeke wrote:I wasn’t supporting the comment, I actually didn’t directly address that at all.
My comment was highlighting that people in mainland China source of information for external events is all controlled by the government, and I had empathy for their viewpoint as they just don’t know any better.
It would be far more constructive if members were to educate them so they can learn things their government prefers them not to know.
Getting off topic, but why do you think SQ32 is from mainland China instead of...well, Singapore? Singapore and Malaysia both have their fair shares of wumaos anyway.
I agree with your other post - HX had been in financial trouble for a long, long time. The secrecy of HNA Group dealing doesn’t help - quite frankly nobody knows where the money is, how they are being used, and whether they even have money.
J343 wrote:Ishrion wrote:J343 wrote:Perfect opportunity for CX to grab the slots. But wait... look at the situation in HK, oh no!
Kidding.
Perhaps this will be an opportunity for CX to expand.
HKG is allowing carriers to retain slots even if they’re not using them.
That is interesting to know. Thank you! I wonder what happened to NZ and QF's HKG-LHR slots?
SurfandSnow wrote:Sadly, the Hong Kong branding that was likely seen as a positive upon the airline's founding may have become a huge liability today. Hong Kong's ongoing O&D issues aside, I would not be surprised if even transit passengers would rather fly through, say, ICN rather than HKG these days...
zeke wrote:itisi wrote:SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
What a truly sad person. Don't worry, HKIA will be back.
I am sympathetic to SQ32 viewpoint as I think it is a result of censoring of news in mainland China. I think what we are seeing with Hong Kong Airlines is actually fairly representative of the true business situation within mainland China airlines. All of the mainland Chinese airlines have had a horrible year, we discussed it recently the massive loss of 3.1 billion on international routes alone viewtopic.php?t=1434035
Hong Kong Airlines has in my view been unfairly encumbered as the major shareholder the HNA group took cash out of the airline to try and fill problems elsewhere in the conglomerate. We have seen the HNA group have massive asset sales and even miss on bonds maturing. Numerous HNA group aircraft have not been picked up as they do not have the funds to pay for them. Hong Kong Airlines A350s have also been flown to France to put into storage. I have also heard that mainland Chinese airlines that have leased aircraft from Hong Kong Airlines have made things worse as they have fallen behind on their lease payments with their own financial problems.
November is traditionally a quiet time of year, and other recent events have put further pressure on loads.
VTCIE wrote:I do not understand why HX should take all the suffering when it is mostly business as usual for the HNA Group’s Mainland Chinese carriers other than HU, such as Tianjin Airlines, Beijing Capital Airlines and Suparna Airlines, barring the deferred deliveries.
c933103 wrote:https://news.mingpao.com/ins/%e7%b6%93%e6%bf%9f/article/20191130/s00002/1575114482381/%e6%b8%af%e8%88%aa%e5%81%9c%e6%ad%a2%e6%8f%90%e4%be%9b%e6%a9%9f%e4%b8%8a%e5%a8%9b%e6%a8%82%e7%b3%bb%e7%b5%b1%e6%9c%8d%e5%8b%99 (Chinese link)
Official announcement: IFE on HX planes will be suspended from December 1st until further announcement
SQ32 wrote:This year we will be happy to see HKIA drop out of 10 top busiest airport.
lightsaber wrote:This is an aviation forum. Please take any political theories to non-aviation. This is your warning.
hongkongflyer wrote:VTCIE wrote:I do not understand why HX should take all the suffering when it is mostly business as usual for the HNA Group’s Mainland Chinese carriers other than HU, such as Tianjin Airlines, Beijing Capital Airlines and Suparna Airlines, barring the deferred deliveries.
HX borrowed huge amount of money (bearing the huge interest expenses) then the funds went to HU in the past few years.
The regional operation itself (before the recent month's protest) was profitable.
zakuivcustom wrote:[
But quite frankly, HX itself got this large only bc it has those borrowed money of HNA to fund those new planes and is able to capture market shares via dumping fares on regional routes (which I don’t mind as a customer).
zeke wrote:lightsaber wrote:This is an aviation forum. Please take any political theories to non-aviation. This is your warning.
Could you provide an alternative narrative which does not involve politics which would explain the large reduction in traffic though Hong Kong that is impacting all airlines ?
If you cannot provide an alternative narrative, your intimidation is preventing the topic being discussed.
Obviously the cause for this slump in demand will impact the companies with the greatest exposure like Hong Kong Airlines.
lightsaber wrote:zeke wrote:lightsaber wrote:This is an aviation forum. Please take any political theories to non-aviation. This is your warning.
Could you provide an alternative narrative which does not involve politics which would explain the large reduction in traffic though Hong Kong that is impacting all airlines ?
If you cannot provide an alternative narrative, your intimidation is preventing the topic being discussed.
Obviously the cause for this slump in demand will impact the companies with the greatest exposure like Hong Kong Airlines.
Yes, the politics are impacting economy and demand. However, moderators are having to delete posts from one side or the other as they would demand a response.
Feel free to discuss the politics must in non-aviation, beyond that they are impacting all aviation demand in Hong Kong.
Lightsaber
zeke wrote:zakuivcustom wrote:[
But quite frankly, HX itself got this large only bc it has those borrowed money of HNA to fund those new planes and is able to capture market shares via dumping fares on regional routes (which I don’t mind as a customer).
I don’t think a lot of HX operated aircraft were owned.
My understanding is they made a nice revenue stream by purchasing aircraft in Hing Kong and then leasing them to HNA group airlines in China bypassing the CAAC central buying allowing fir those airlines to grow faster. I think they even made a MOU for A380s to go to mainland China.
That was until those lease payments were made in time.
hongkongflyer wrote:lightsaber wrote:zeke wrote:
Could you provide an alternative narrative which does not involve politics which would explain the large reduction in traffic though Hong Kong that is impacting all airlines ?
If you cannot provide an alternative narrative, your intimidation is preventing the topic being discussed.
Obviously the cause for this slump in demand will impact the companies with the greatest exposure like Hong Kong Airlines.
Yes, the politics are impacting economy and demand. However, moderators are having to delete posts from one side or the other as they would demand a response.
Feel free to discuss the politics must in non-aviation, beyond that they are impacting all aviation demand in Hong Kong.
Lightsaber
I apologize but the main purpose of my reply is that the protest is on it’s final stage and I bid the tourism demand will begin to recover rapidly.
c933103 wrote:hongkongflyer wrote:lightsaber wrote:
Yes, the politics are impacting economy and demand. However, moderators are having to delete posts from one side or the other as they would demand a response.
Feel free to discuss the politics must in non-aviation, beyond that they are impacting all aviation demand in Hong Kong.
Lightsaber
I apologize but the main purpose of my reply is that the protest is on it’s final stage and I bid the tourism demand will begin to recover rapidly.
Nothing have been done locally to end the current situation so I would say that's wishful thinking
hongkongflyer wrote:zeke wrote:zakuivcustom wrote:[
But quite frankly, HX itself got this large only bc it has those borrowed money of HNA to fund those new planes and is able to capture market shares via dumping fares on regional routes (which I don’t mind as a customer).
I don’t think a lot of HX operated aircraft were owned.
My understanding is they made a nice revenue stream by purchasing aircraft in Hing Kong and then leasing them to HNA group airlines in China bypassing the CAAC central buying allowing fir those airlines to grow faster. I think they even made a MOU for A380s to go to mainland China.
That was until those lease payments were made in time.
Yes. The main reason HX faces difficulties is that they have to bear heavy interest payments. The fail in demand in the past few month hurts them, but won’t serious enough to kill them
c933103 wrote:Nothing have been done locally to end the current situation so I would say that's wishful thinking