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LondonXtreme
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Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:36 am

JL has far fewer international destinations than what ANA does. The gap will be bigger from next year.

I use Europe and China as example:

Europe:
JL: LHR CDG FRA DME HEL
NH: LHR CDG FRA MUC DUS BRU VIE

Starting next year NH will add IST SVO ARN MXP and will potentially add BCN.

So, NH will eventually serves at least 11 destinations in Europe and JL only has 5 destinations, and we haven't yet heard any announcement for route expansions from JL.


Mainland China(exclude HKG):
JL: PVG/SHA PEK CAN DLC TSN(from NGO)
NH: PVG/SHA PEK CAN DLC TAO CTU WUH HGH SHE XMN SZX(next year)

NH has 11 vesus JL only has 5

If we take into account the destinations in North America and South East Asia, NH still serves more destinations with more frequencies.

Will JL catch up in next few years? I would like to see JL adds AMS ZRH MAD ROM.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:42 am

The government favors ANA.
 
Tokyo777
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:50 am

JAL went bankrupt in 2010 and went through a major cost-cutting and restructuring. In return for the government helping JAL through the bankruptcy, the government has been favoring ANA when it comes to the coveted Haneda slots. JAL has been growing rather conservatively, while ANA has been more aggressive.
Also, many Japanese feel 'ashamed' about JAL and thus prefer to fly ANA.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:06 am

It is combination of factors. The 2010 bankruptcy caused the Japanese government to place restrictions on JL ops until recently that NH did not have. JL management has historically been more conservative in general than NH. It is sad though. I'm an AA FF so theoretically I should be doing alot of flying JL flying in Asia due to the JV but due to JL' s substandard intra-Asia network and split ops in TYO, they remain the only OW carrier I have never flown.
 
paulduwon
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:09 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
Will JL catch up in next few years? I would like to see JL adds AMS ZRH MAD ROM.


You know, JAL used to fly to all of those places you mentioned. In fact, they even flew as far as NRT-YVR-MEX and NRT-JFK-GRU at one point.
JAL went through a series of bad management in the late 2000s (including bankruptcy), which eventually resulted in cost-cutting measures, including route cuts and staff cuts.
As of now, I believe JAL is seeking for joint ventures through Oneworld rather than taking the risks of starting new routes.
 
downdata
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:10 am

OW is the smallest of the three alliances - doesnt hold a candle to *A
 
Galwayman
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:08 am

ANA has always been the more prestigious airline . And is therefore more attractive to business travellers . JAL suffered from poor safety reputation for decades and had significant financial problems
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:22 am

JAL was far larger, but went bankrupt doing it!
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Arion640
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:12 am

downdata wrote:
OW is the smallest of the three alliances - doesnt hold a candle to *A


I’d actually say oneworld is stronger than sky team. What is actually valuable in sky team after AF/KL/KE/DL?
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am

Surprises me that neither serve AMS. I think a daily 788 AMS-HND would work pretty well.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Why JAL has fe YUwer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:01 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Surprises me that neither serve AMS. I think a daily 788 AMS-HND would work pretty well.


There are no slots available at Haneda for The Netherlands (something KLM was recently complaining about). For the time being it has to be NRT or nothing.
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:05 pm

We were sort of expecting to see JAL get a HND-BOS flight, but that didn’t happen. Is it more likely that ANA gets that route, or no one gets it at all? I’m leaning toward BOS-HND doesn’t happen at all.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:11 pm

LAXintl wrote:
JAL was far larger, but went bankrupt doing it!


:checkmark:

JAL was a much larger airline than ANA in the 1990s and 2000s, but that didn't work out too well for them. Between shrinking to profitability, formal restrictions on their growth after the 2010 bailout, and a quasi-policy of the Abe government favouring ANA, JAL has had something of a lost decade.

I don't expect them to grow rapidly over the medium term, though. They are profitable and serve all of the key business markets. A lot of the secondary European and Chinese cities, since those were the markets listed by the OP, skew towards leisure traffic.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:14 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
We were sort of expecting to see JAL get a HND-BOS flight, but that didn’t happen. Is it more likely that ANA gets that route, or no one gets it at all? I’m leaning toward BOS-HND doesn’t happen at all.


Most likely none at all. Japan doesn't make their Haneda authorities route specific, only country specific. JAL and ANA are free to launch any market in the USA of their choosing from HND. Given that JAL has no competition in the BOS market there is not really any competitive disadvantage to serving NRT instead of HND, with the benefit that NRT offers better connections to the rest of Asia.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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senatorflyer
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:16 pm

ANA is a lot larger than JAL... so naturally they have a bigger network.
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: Why JAL has fe YUwer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:42 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
CHRISBA35X wrote:
Surprises me that neither serve AMS. I think a daily 788 AMS-HND would work pretty well.


There are no slots available at Haneda for The Netherlands (something KLM was recently complaining about). For the time being it has to be NRT or nothing.


I still think AMS-NRT would work well on a 788 for JL or NH.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:29 pm

JAL flew to AMS for decades having launched service in the 1960s via CPH. Ultimately AMS was dropped as one of the 15 loss-making international markets during the bankruptcy.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sabby
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:49 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
...they remain the only OW carrier I have never flown.

A little off topic but just curious, have you flown S7 airlines ? They are on my bucket list because of their bright livery and uniforms, plus they fly to kamchatka.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:59 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I don't expect them to grow rapidly over the medium term, though. They are profitable and serve all of the key business markets. A lot of the secondary European and Chinese cities, since those were the markets listed by the OP, skew towards leisure traffic.


Yes, this another of their problems. While passengers might love their comfortable, low-density aircraft configurations, it really limits their growth because most secondary destinations cannot support such a premium product.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:04 pm

sabby wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
...they remain the only OW carrier I have never flown.

A little off topic but just curious, have you flown S7 airlines ? They are on my bucket list because of their bright livery and uniforms, plus they fly to kamchatka.


Yes, I flew them to Turkmenistan this year. They have a good, consistent product but their cabin crew English proficiency is not the best. I loved the bright green and purple livery and interior.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:02 pm

IIRC as part of the conditions of the 2010 bailout, JL cannot add any routes without the approval of the govt authority for 5 years. Even though such restriction is no longer in place, that more or less put JL 5 years behind in growing some of the smaller market.

The HND slot favoritism towards ANA doesn’t help. The current slot allocation is a lot more balanced, but the one back in 2010 or so is anything but. That means ANA can fly some more lucrative routes = more money to expand.

At least JL is doing well financially right now and begin to slowly grow again.
 
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Tabito
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:20 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
Mainland China(exclude HKG):
JL: PVG/SHA PEK CAN DLC TSN(from NGO)
NH: PVG/SHA PEK CAN DLC TAO CTU WUH HGH SHE XMN SZX(next year)

NH has 11 vesus JL only has 5


Japan-PRC flight expansion difference between ANA and JAL is results from long relationship with ANA and CAAC.
Especially first prime minister of PRC ZHOU Enlai and some of ANA's presidents had strong relation in 70's.
ANA offered training of cabin crew and airport handling for CAAC from 1980.
When ANA began their international service in 1986, PRC approved some priorities to ANA for new PRC routes from NRT.
 
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centrair
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:50 am

I think we will see new routes and a refreshed experience from JAL in the next 2 years as they have placed increasing profit from international.
They are trying to step out of their overly traditional bureaucratic style to be more international. They have started hiring non-Japanese crew and do some exciting things with digital.

Downside is that the domestic and Japanese loyal/government connected thinking is still strong resulting in a very siloed system that doesn't want to change.

This is Japan... land where when someone says "its tricky" or "difficult" they mean "I don't want to be bothered with that." This is a dominant attitude at JAL.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:30 pm

sabby wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
...they remain the only OW carrier I have never flown.

A little off topic but just curious, have you flown S7 airlines ? They are on my bucket list because of their bright livery and uniforms, plus they fly to kamchatka.


I flew three segments in September on S7. Overall a decent operation, but their cabin temperature was set way too warm on all three flights. The seating on the A320ceo was comfortable, but the slimmer seats on the A320neo were very uncomfortable.
 
ST165
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:10 pm

To add to what people have said, since bankrupty, JL has been focused on profit while NH has been focused on growth. You can see it from their balance sheets. JL consistently has higher yields and higher profit (they even made profit during the 2010 tsunami), while NH has much lower yields but significantly higher growth and revenue. JL is unlikely to grow as aggressively as NH, and where they grow will be focused on O&D.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:29 pm

Didn't JAL serve IAD at one point? I recall seeing a Sakura Lounge listed on an IAD terminal map at one point.
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c933103
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:45 pm

JAL was a smaller carrier than ANA. However in early 2000s they absorbed the Japanese domestic airlines JAS which turned them into the larger airlines than ANA. But as JAS was still mainly a domestic centric carrier at the time of acquisition, the move didn't helped JAL a lot in term of developing their international network, which is why it's still weaker than ANA.
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jplatts
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:39 pm

There are actually a few U.S. destinations that are served nonstop from TYO on JL but not on NH such as BOS, DFW, GUM, KOA, and SAN.

Of the 5 U.S. destinations that are served nonstop from TYO on JL but not on NH, (a) AA has its main hub at DFW, (b) NH's partner UA already serves GUM nonstop from NRT in addition to JL, and (c) neither AA nor UA have hubs at BOS, KOA, and SAN.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:04 am

Image

This should explain a lot.
y axis: available seat kilometers.
 
716131
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:05 am

ANA is the Country’s largest and JAL is the second.
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PB26
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:38 am

To understand the relation and size of ANA and JAL need back in the early Seventies, when the 45/47 System was adopted.

The system granted JAL monopoly in the international market and fewer domestic trunk routes, like the FUK-HND-CTS and HND-ITM. All Nippon was awarded as domestic carrier and the Toa Domestic Airlines had rights to fly regional routes and some domestic too.

The same decade ANA was allowed to fly international chartes, first to Kai Tak on B727-200.

With the break of JAL's international monopoly and change in the 45/47 System, all restrictions were gone and ANA began to fly to Guam, Dalian, Beijing, USA and Europe routes. TDA became JAS and started some international routes, like HKG, SEL, CAN and HNL.

The japanese aviation outlook in the Nineties and early 2000's was a JAL as flag carrier and with more cities served outside of Japan and revenues larger than ANA, which was the largest domestic carrier. JAS was a little player between two titans.

In 2001, JAL and JAS signed an agreement to merge, creating briefly the largest airline outside USA per revenue. The JAL-JAS merger created an airliner as big as ANA in domestic market. But, a dismanagament made the company went to bankrucpty in 2010.

The JAL's Recovery Plan was the chance to ANA grew up in international market, because, as mentioned by other user, the government forbided JAL to launch new international route and cities until 2017, with some exceptions, like a city no served or request by ANA, hence the reason to fly to Helsink and Boston during the Recovery Plan. The restriction was a way to reward ANA for JAL's government bailout, hence they started new cities like San Jose, Mexico City, Brussels, Sydney, Dusseldorg and Munich.
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questions
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:01 am

Arion640 wrote:
downdata wrote:
OW is the smallest of the three alliances - doesnt hold a candle to *A


I’d actually say oneworld is stronger than sky team. What is actually valuable in sky team after AF/KL/KE/DL?


Star Alliance formed. Then oneworld. Sky Team got what was picked over.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:03 am

paulduwon wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Will JL catch up in next few years? I would like to see JL adds AMS ZRH MAD ROM.


You know, JAL used to fly to all of those places you mentioned. In fact, they even flew as far as NRT-YVR-MEX and NRT-JFK-GRU at one point.
JAL went through a series of bad management in the late 2000s (including bankruptcy), which eventually resulted in cost-cutting measures, including route cuts and staff cuts.
As of now, I believe JAL is seeking for joint ventures through Oneworld rather than taking the risks of starting new routes.


I'm actually surprised that JL doesn't try ZRH again on the B789, given that it would have similar clientele to FRA and CDG...banking traffic. MAD is likely a codeshare with IB these days. As for HEL, that's likely because of the BA/JL/AY JV. The B744 was a terrible aircraft for JL, but the B77W (soon to be A35K), B788, and B789 are much more efficient...and JL can also command premium pricing as it bucked the Dreamliner trend and went 2-4-2 (the international B788s are 161 and 186 seats, and the B789s 195 seats, with 244 seats on the B77W).

Its North American destinations, except for BOS, HNL, SFO, and YVR, are all to AA hubs. Also, except for BOS, ORD and LAX, JL is ending service to North America from NRT (JL will no longer overnight a B77W at JFK anymore, required because of the NRT curfew---instead it will be a midnight departure which will tie into the morning bank of flights at HND.) I see it as only a matter of time before BOS gets shifted to HND.

What will be interesting is if NH still flies to NRT for long from JFK...given that JFK-NRT is operated in a W pattern (HND-JFK-NRT-JFK-HND) because the ultra-high-J NH B77Ws are based at HND. (NH partner UA flies NRT-EWR on the B77W.)
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:24 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, except for BOS, ORD and LAX, JL is ending service to North America from NRT (JL will no longer overnight a B77W at JFK anymore, required because of the NRT curfew---instead it will be a midnight departure which will tie into the morning bank of flights at HND.) I see it as only a matter of time before BOS gets shifted to HND.

What will be interesting is if NH still flies to NRT for long from JFK...given that JFK-NRT is operated in a W pattern (HND-JFK-NRT-JFK-HND) because the ultra-high-J NH B77Ws are based at HND. (NH partner UA flies NRT-EWR on the B77W.)


JL still flies to SEA and SAN from NRT as well and is actually adding SFO-NRT in the spring. NRT-USA is far from dead. Also, they cant add BOS-HND because there is no slot for it.
 
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Tabito
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:54 am

USAirALB wrote:
Didn't JAL serve IAD at one point? I recall seeing a Sakura Lounge listed on an IAD terminal map at one point.


JL served IAD-NRT from March1991 to November 1995.
 
DCAYOW
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:29 am

To me the current government favoritism of ANA over JAL is a bit shortsighted. My understanding is a lot of JALs expansion of routes in the 1970 - 1990 period were a direct influence of government “recommendations”. Flying to GRU and MEX come to mind here. So I think its a bit vindictive of the government to hold JAL fully accountable for past network mistakes that they played a role in creating.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:51 am

Arion640 wrote:
I’d actually say oneworld is stronger than sky team. What is actually valuable in sky team after AF/KL/KE/DL?

Depends on the the demographic.

But you knew that. Just like you know that 99% of the world business market doesn't give a damn about the likes of RJ, S7, UL, etc; yet they still remain valuable within their niches.

Guess it's just more fun to bash another alliance, rather than contemplate the hypocrisy in your own stance.......



questions wrote:
Star Alliance formed. Then oneworld. Sky Team got what was picked over.

Why are you omitting the alliances that predate Star, seeing as they depict a different picture than what you're trying to portray? :scratchchin:

Some of the allied airlines in pre-Star formalized groupings (e.g. Atlantic Excellence alliance, Atlantic Quality alliance, etc) had already selected the likes of DL, SQ, etc which is why they were late to start/join the three primary alliances that exist today.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
flyer56
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:03 am

PB26 wrote:
To understand the relation and size of ANA and JAL need back in the early Seventies, when the 45/47 System was adopted.

The system granted JAL monopoly in the international market and fewer domestic trunk routes, like the FUK-HND-CTS and HND-ITM. All Nippon was awarded as domestic carrier and the Toa Domestic Airlines had rights to fly regional routes and some domestic too.

The same decade ANA was allowed to fly international chartes, first to Kai Tak on B727-200.

With the break of JAL's international monopoly and change in the 45/47 System, all restrictions were gone and ANA began to fly to Guam, Dalian, Beijing, USA and Europe routes. TDA became JAS and started some international routes, like HKG, SEL, CAN and HNL.

The japanese aviation outlook in the Nineties and early 2000's was a JAL as flag carrier and with more cities served outside of Japan and revenues larger than ANA, which was the largest domestic carrier. JAS was a little player between two titans.

In 2001, JAL and JAS signed an agreement to merge, creating briefly the largest airline outside USA per revenue. The JAL-JAS merger created an airliner as big as ANA in domestic market. But, a dismanagament made the company went to bankrucpty in 2010.

The JAL's Recovery Plan was the chance to ANA grew up in international market, because, as mentioned by other user, the government forbided JAL to launch new international route and cities until 2017, with some exceptions, like a city no served or request by ANA, hence the reason to fly to Helsink and Boston during the Recovery Plan. The restriction was a way to reward ANA for JAL's government bailout, hence they started new cities like San Jose, Mexico City, Brussels, Sydney, Dusseldorg and Munich.


Thanks for the factual post. I lived and worked out of Tokyo in the 90s and early 2000s, NH was dominant on domestic flights but a clear also-ran on international flights. Every company I dealt with had contracts with JAL for international flights, no one with NH. NH had to fight to gain any new cities overseas and placed a heavy emphasis on service to help differentiate NH from the dominant JAL. JAL's merger with JAS was a disaster resulting in the highest labor wages for any airline being applied across the now significantly larger airline. JAL then downsized in a way that caused a lot of labor and morale issues so service suffered. JAL's problems are all of JAL's making. The government does not favor NH, but the financing provided to get JAL our of bankruptcy placed some restrictions on JAL which have since been lifted. In my opinion JAL has only recently realized that they now have to fight for business and that NH is a real competitor. Hopefully the future will be brighter for JAL.
 
a350lover
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:26 am

LondonXtreme wrote:

Starting next year NH will add IST SVO ARN MXP and will potentially add BCN.


Is there any source for that impression that ANA may add Barcelona next year?
 
Arion640
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:43 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
I’d actually say oneworld is stronger than sky team. What is actually valuable in sky team after AF/KL/KE/DL?

Depends on the the demographic.

But you knew that. Just like you know that 99% of the world business market doesn't give a damn about the likes of RJ, S7, UL, etc; yet they still remain valuable within their niches.

Guess it's just more fun to bash another alliance, rather than contemplate the hypocrisy in your own stance.......

.


What on earth are you going on about?
 
questions
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:36 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
questions wrote:
Star Alliance formed. Then oneworld. Sky Team got what was picked over.

Why are you omitting the alliances that predate Star, seeing as they depict a different picture than what you're trying to portray? :scratchchin:

Some of the allied airlines in pre-Star formalized groupings (e.g. Atlantic Excellence alliance, Atlantic Quality alliance, etc) had already selected the likes of DL, SQ, etc which is why they were late to start/join the three primary alliances that exist today.


Because in the conversation thread I quoted only “the three alliances” were referenced. This infers the discussion is about the alliances that currently exist, not past or present. Those airlines in alliances prior to the current three, e.g., those in the Atlantic Excellence Alliance and Delta’s partnership with SQ, did not stick together. It was like they all RAN to UA and AA (in the world’s largest aviation market), leaving DL to pick up what was left over when SkyTeam was founded in Jun 2000.

Star Alliance (May 1997)*
May 1997 — UA, SK, TG, AC, LH
Oct 1997 — RG
Mar 1999 — AN, NZ
Mar 2000 — OS
Apr 2000 — SQ

oneworld (Feb 1999)*
Feb 1999* — AA, AY, BA, CP, CX, IB, QF
May 1999 — LA
Dec 1999 — EI

By Jun 2000, it was slim pickin’s for strategically positioned, major players. U.S.A.: CO, DL, NW, US, others. Europe: AF, KL, others. Asia: KE, NH, JA, OX, others. Latin America: AM, MX, others

Why was SkyTeam late to the game given, for example, DL’s experiences with alliances?

Why, for example, did other airlines shun Delta for UA and AA?

If this were the prom, SkyTeam ended up with folks from the French club, color guard and hall monitors.


*Founding partners announced earlier
 
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Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:16 pm

questions wrote:

oneworld (Feb 1999)*
Feb 1999* — AA, AY, BA, CP, CX, IB, QF
May 1999 — LA
Dec 1999 — EI



*Founding partners announced earlier

Just to clarify - while oneworld launched on Feb 1, 1999, the five founding members were AA, BA, CP, CX and QF. IB and AY announced their intention to join two weeks later, and formally joined later that year.
 
questions
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Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations than ANA?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:47 am

Bhoy wrote:
questions wrote:

oneworld (Feb 1999)*
Feb 1999* — AA, AY, BA, CP, CX, IB, QF
May 1999 — LA
Dec 1999 — EI



*Founding partners announced earlier

Just to clarify - while oneworld launched on Feb 1, 1999, the five founding members were AA, BA, CP, CX and QF. IB and AY announced their intention to join two weeks later, and formally joined later that year.


Thanks. I was trying to simplify, not suggest all seven were founding members.

To clarify in detail:

21Sep1998 — AA, BA, CP, CX, QF announce, as founding airlines, the formation of oneworld
09Dec1998 — AY joins alliance
01Feb1999 — oneworld launches
15Feb1999 — IB joins alliance

So, by Feb 1999, AA, AY, BA, CP, CX, IB, QF were all members of oneworld, with the founding airlines, AA, BA, CP, CX, QF, having announced earlier than Feb 1999.
 
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millionsofmiles
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:18 am

Re: Why JAL has fewer international destinations

Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:25 am

Galwayman wrote:
ANA has always been the more prestigious airline . And is therefore more attractive to business travellers . JAL suffered from poor safety reputation for decades and had significant financial problems


No. Up until the mid-1980s, All Nippon Airways scope consisted of domestic and regional Asia flying. JAL was the prestige airline. It wasn’t till 1986 that All Nippon expanded into other continents, beginning with its first flights to the USA.

So...no...not “always.”

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