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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:32 am

Goodbye wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Interesting not much press is covering this 3rd research flight? I guess everyone forgot about it. Sort of makes sense considering it’s a repeat.


Perhaps everyone has realised that 19-hour flights aren't that big a deal and not really worth talking about.

There's not much new to say. It's been done and the press interest has moved onto something else. It was fairly unscientific anyway and the sample wouldn't pass any reasonableness test but it got great publicity and QF had to fly the newly delivered planes back to AU anyway.
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Fuling
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:55 am

qf2220 wrote:
Ok, so what does Australia Japan now look like?


Effective 29MAR2020.

From CNS:
JQ - KIX x4 weekly (???) B788 / NRT x1 daily (???) B788

From BNE:
QF - NRT x1 daily A333
VA - HND x1 daily A332

From OOL:
JQ - NRT x1 daily (???)

From SYD:
JL - HND x1 daily B789
QF - CTS x3 weekly seasonal A332 / HND x1 daily B744 / KIX x5 weekly A330
NH - HND x2 daily B789

From MEL:
JL - NRT x1 daily B788
QF - HND x1 daily A333

From PER:
NH - NRT x1 daily B787
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:56 am

Ishrion wrote:
Interesting not much press is covering this 3rd research flight? I guess everyone forgot about it. Sort of makes sense considering it’s a repeat.


With the first two flights Qantas has probably tapped out all of the sycophantic AU media who would go and churn out slavish PR spin, maybe the ones left are the ones who are a bit too 'independently-minded!'.
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:18 am

Fuling wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Ok, so what does Australia Japan now look like?


Effective 29MAR2020.

From CNS:
JQ - KIX x4 weekly (???) B788 / NRT x1 daily (???) B788

From BNE:
QF - NRT x1 daily A333
VA - HND x1 daily A332

From OOL:
JQ - NRT x1 daily (???)

From SYD:
JL - HND x1 daily B789
QF - CTS x3 weekly seasonal A332 / HND x1 daily B744 / KIX x5 weekly A330
NH - HND x2 daily B789

From MEL:
JL - NRT x1 daily B788
QF - HND x1 daily A333

From PER:
NH - NRT x1 daily B787


Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!
 
Sydscott
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:59 am

qf2220 wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
I think the answer is pretty easy in that Australians, in general, prefer and are far more familiar with Singapore and Hong Kong than what they are with the Middle Eastern Cities as a shopping and layover destination.


In other words, we find that SIN and HKG are more interesting places for us than DXB?


I think a lot more Australians visit Asia in general and SIN and HKG are probably the biggest 2 jump off points for exploring Asia for Australians. So it makes sense for QF to re add connections and capacity into those markets along side the EK deal in DXB which EK can more than adequately cover with its own capacity. Personally I've only transited once through the Middle East and that was on EY via AUH where I as on the ground for 90 mins and that was it.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:21 am

With ZNK currently in the air the final 3 789's (well for now) production line numbers are

ZNL LN1019 enter final assembly March, delivery May
ZNM LN1035 enter final assembly April, Delivery June
ZNN LN1051 enter final assembly early June, delivery late July/early August

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dit#gid=19
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:05 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Interesting not much press is covering this 3rd research flight? I guess everyone forgot about it. Sort of makes sense considering it’s a repeat.


With the first two flights Qantas has probably tapped out all of the sycophantic AU media who would go and churn out slavish PR spin, maybe the ones left are the ones who are a bit too 'independently-minded!'.


Not to mention with 330 evacuation, will.iam incident, JQ OHS workplace notices, JQ strike - QF may try keep a low profile to get through the busy period below the radar, or run the risk of over doing the PR and having it turned against them.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:07 am

redroo wrote:
qf789 wrote:
redroo wrote:
@qf789 interesting comment you made in the Sunrise thread about change in loads and stopovers from Perth.

From speaking to people here, those that have tried the non stop rave about it and are willing to pay the extra... although some baulk at the cost when taking their whole family on it. The non stoppers have been “converted” and “preach” to the non converted!!

I haven’t heard of anyone recently taking the EK flights. SQ and Qatar get mentioned a lot more than EK these days.

Thoughts?


Yes there has been a definite switch over the past 12-18 months from ME3 back to the traditional connections via SIN, HKG, BKK and KUL. For those who didn't see what I said in the Sunrise thread they are below. Since EY left QR has definitely seen its numbers lift while EK looks like a new Coles add, down, down and staying down. QR only brought back the A388 a couple of days ago yet they were flying around an extra 100 passengers compared to EK421 and QR was only going out with a 90% load. Then EK425 is lucky to go out half full, with these numbers why did EK bring back the second rotation? Even when QR had the 77W they would quite often go out with more passengers than EK. The thing that baffles me is looking at the loads of pretty much all the other carriers with the exception of Batik and Citilink are all going out full or close to it, its concerning EK is not pulling the high loads it would do this time of year.

Meanwhile both SQ and CX have upgraded aircraft in recent months and they are filling them. Prior to CX bringing the A35K I thought with events in HKG they would struggle to fill it and perhaps the A359 was a better fit, but to their credit they kept with their plans. SQ has recently upgraded 3 of 4 flights and they are going out jammed packed. Previously I have said about another flight from SQ, even if it was either seasonal or a few times a week but I think there is a real possibility of SQ adding more services in the future.

Obviously PER-LHR has had an impact on EK and I would expect once the likes of SYD-LHR and MEL-LHR begin EK will be the biggest loser as they are going to loose those premium passengers to the nonstop services which will trash their yields. I also wonder if recent agreements such as the KL/AF codeshare and QF getting closer to CX is also having an impact. I would be interested to hear how EK is fairing out of SYD, BNE and MEL atm

The biggest loser out all of this will be Emirates. Both EK and EY have reduced capacity into Australia over the past 12-18 months. Having watched PER-LHR closely there has been an overall shift of travelling patterns. Since PER-LHR started the traditional connection points of SIN and HKG and to a lesser extent KUL and BKK have come back in favour compared with the likes of the ME3. EY ended up leaving the PER market while EK has cut it down to daily except for Dec/Jan where they run 2 daily. QR on the other hand is the only one of the ME3 to have grown in the market. Look at the departure board the past 2 nights there is a clear evidence EK is suffering. Over the past 2 days alone EK has gone out with over 500 empty seats yet we are less than 2 weeks before Christmas and in previous years these flights would have been full to the gills meanwhile looking at the likes of SQ and CX they are going out full, also what is telling is both these carriers have increased capacity by adding larger aircraft in recent months. There has also been an increased focus from Qantas on SIN, not only does QF other LHR flight goes through SIN they now have codeshare agreements with AF, KL and LO and there has also been AY which has been there for a long time. While SYD is a different market the likes of EK are still going to be affected by these Project Sunrise flights, sure those who want cheaper flights will be attracted to the ME3 but they will lose out on the higher yielding ones



Any thoughts on why?

Anecdotally the QF9 is getting most discussion in the offices and beaches around Perth - amazing, no better way, etc etc. every sand groper that’s done it has raved about it to anyone that will listen.

EK has always been useful for entering via one port and leaving via another. I’ve done it but now I’d probably fly back to London and get the non stop. Being able to get uninterrupted sleep onboard is much better than being woken in middle of night to schlep around the desert.

Again anecdotally the Dubai novelty factor has been and gone. People grumble about the stop over in a way I don’t hear anyone talk about Singapore or Hong Kong (zoo, masses of people, shouted at). The last few people I’ve spoken to are doing Bangkok or Singapore. I can’t remember the last time someone said they were flying Emirates... which probably bears out in the LFs.


I don't think there is one reason, there's a few. The most obvious one is Qantas, the non stop saves quite a few hours. Qatar has been quite effective gaining ground on EK by offering a good product at a good price. I think EK is probably a bit on the expensive side, their product particular on the 77W's is sub par, lets face it who wants to fly business when its configured 2-3-2, they also probably gain something once premium economy is added. DXB in itself along with EK use to be the best thing since sliced bread, its not anymore. Then there is the Asian factor, both SQ and CX have added new gen widebodies to PER in the past 18 months with good business class products plus SQ has offered the Singapore Stopover for years and that has always been a popular option.

Also Im not convinced atm that there are as many people travelling this year, compared to last year both internationally and domestically. It might bite me in the backside later in the week but from what I have seen things are a bit off compared to last year. While SQ, MH, TG, TR, JQ, CX, NZ, SA, MK, QR, CZ and NH are going out with good loads there seems some flights going out which could be performing better. AirAsia both DPS and KUL aren't going out full, Scoot has definitely gained the edge of D7, AirAsia Indonesia some of their flights have gone out mediocre, I am wondering if Lombok is having an impact, I would have to go and check the numbers for Lombok but they are 70-80% as an average, GA does well with CGK but DPS is another story, I do wonder once Citilink is a bit more established GA will pull DPS, both Batik and Malindo their numbers are all over the place. I would expect that both KUL and DPS markets to have more of an impact this time of the year but atm I haven't seen much to support that.
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qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:08 am

Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!

Myself and Mrs QF2048 are heading to Sapporo over Christmas. We booked back in April, before the direct QF39 was announced, and still could only get Saver fares out and Flex on the return. Good for the points earn but not so much the back pocket. Fairly expensive even when booked that far in advance. Admittedly it is one of the busiest times of the year to travel but there is obviously the demand there. Have put in for an upgrade but a dummy search on the flight pretty much shows is booked out. The 747 will be missed.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:14 am

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qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:15 am

Sydscott wrote:
redroo wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Yes there has been a definite switch over the past 12-18 months from ME3 back to the traditional connections via SIN, HKG, BKK and KUL. For those who didn't see what I said in the Sunrise thread they are below. Since EY left QR has definitely seen its numbers lift while EK looks like a new Coles add, down, down and staying down. QR only brought back the A388 a couple of days ago yet they were flying around an extra 100 passengers compared to EK421 and QR was only going out with a 90% load. Then EK425 is lucky to go out half full, with these numbers why did EK bring back the second rotation? Even when QR had the 77W they would quite often go out with more passengers than EK. The thing that baffles me is looking at the loads of pretty much all the other carriers with the exception of Batik and Citilink are all going out full or close to it, its concerning EK is not pulling the high loads it would do this time of year.

Meanwhile both SQ and CX have upgraded aircraft in recent months and they are filling them. Prior to CX bringing the A35K I thought with events in HKG they would struggle to fill it and perhaps the A359 was a better fit, but to their credit they kept with their plans. SQ has recently upgraded 3 of 4 flights and they are going out jammed packed. Previously I have said about another flight from SQ, even if it was either seasonal or a few times a week but I think there is a real possibility of SQ adding more services in the future.

Obviously PER-LHR has had an impact on EK and I would expect once the likes of SYD-LHR and MEL-LHR begin EK will be the biggest loser as they are going to loose those premium passengers to the nonstop services which will trash their yields. I also wonder if recent agreements such as the KL/AF codeshare and QF getting closer to CX is also having an impact. I would be interested to hear how EK is fairing out of SYD, BNE and MEL atm




Any thoughts on why?

Anecdotally the QF9 is getting most discussion in the offices and beaches around Perth - amazing, no better way, etc etc. every sand groper that’s done it has raved about it to anyone that will listen.

EK has always been useful for entering via one port and leaving via another. I’ve done it but now I’d probably fly back to London and get the non stop. Being able to get uninterrupted sleep onboard is much better than being woken in middle of night to schlep around the desert.

Again anecdotally the Dubai novelty factor has been and gone. People grumble about the stop over in a way I don’t hear anyone talk about Singapore or Hong Kong (zoo, masses of people, shouted at). The last few people I’ve spoken to are doing Bangkok or Singapore. I can’t remember the last time someone said they were flying Emirates... which probably bears out in the LFs.



I think the answer is pretty easy in that Australians, in general, prefer and are far more familiar with Singapore and Hong Kong than what they are with the Middle Eastern Cities as a shopping and layover destination. I fly to Europe a couple of times a year on business and switched over to flying CX rather than transiting through the Middle East because I prefer Hong Kong as a stopover destination for a day or so to break up the trip on the way back. (Day flights back in Sydney also help)

So while I think there is a healthy traffic flow going to Europe via all destinations, I think QF was missing out on traffic by not having a route to Europe via Asia and it was certainly missing out on connecting traffic onto 3K in Singapore. So from an overall network standpoint, the QF network is stronger and more profitable having LHR through Singapore, and having additional codeshare options into Europe on AF / KL etc via Singapore and DXB than what it was having DXB by itself. It also reflects the turn around that QF International has had as well in that it can now both compete with and bypass competitors hubs with the QF9 service.

Agree with you there re CX via HKG. Purposely booked on CX rather than QF earlier this year so could have a stopover in Hong Kong then back to Sydney on the daytime flight.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
a19901213
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:12 am

qf2048 wrote:
Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!

Myself and Mrs QF2048 are heading to Sapporo over Christmas. We booked back in April, before the direct QF39 was announced, and still could only get Saver fares out and Flex on the return. Good for the points earn but not so much the back pocket. Fairly expensive even when booked that far in advance. Admittedly it is one of the busiest times of the year to travel but there is obviously the demand there. Have put in for an upgrade but a dummy search on the flight pretty much shows is booked out. The 747 will be missed.


When I was living in Japan around 2010 there’s basically no option to fly to Japan whatsoever. (Especially when I lived in Kansai area)

I fly at least twice a year to Japan to visit relatives and friend and now I have so much more options.

One thing that really changed a lot is probably the price for premium cabin. Back in those days Business class return ticket is non negotiable $5k~ and date change is prohibited.

Now you can find $3k business class ticket easily and Kansai airport has become a zoo when it used to be a ghost town 10 years ago.
 
chewybacca
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:34 am

ben175 wrote:
myki wrote:
QF744ER wrote:

Malaysia is not just KUL.

Could their be some sort of resort/honeymoon/premium demand to the resorts of LGK, or the more general PEN for resorts and tourists? Seasonal perhaps? MH run BKI-PER (albeit weekly) and AO used to run BKI-SYD, maybe try again? Get JQ to dip the toes in the waters twice a week and see how it goes?

My $0.02


I'm honestly surprised MH PER-BKI is still operating considering the load factors in some of the BITRE figures.
Saying that, back in the day they used to run an A330 on PER-KCH too 2 x weekly.

Anecdotally, there is quite a large Malaysian population in PER (and not just from KUL), mainly as it’s closer than other Aussie cities to fly to bar Darwin. I know of many ex-Malaysians first settling down in PER, and/or then subsequently moving to the East Coast for work.

Whether that has since died down I’m not sure.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 am

With VHZNK well on its way VHZNJ has just pushed back as QF464 MELSYD.

Flight QF464 from Melbourne to Sydney
https://fr24.com/QFA464/2336d71e

Image



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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:04 am

EK413 wrote:
With VHZNK well on its way VHZNJ has just pushed back as QF464 MELSYD.

Flight QF464 from Melbourne to Sydney
https://fr24.com/QFA464/2336d71e

Image



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let's hope what caused it to be grounded is the end of it now. Presume it will also operate QF497 back to MEL tonight
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:37 am

qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
With VHZNK well on its way VHZNJ has just pushed back as QF464 MELSYD.

Flight QF464 from Melbourne to Sydney
https://fr24.com/QFA464/2336d71e

Image



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let's hope what caused it to be grounded is the end of it now. Presume it will also operate QF497 back to MEL tonight


QF497 appears to be A330 equipment.

More than likely operating tomorrows QF141 SYDAKL.


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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:06 am

EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
With VHZNK well on its way VHZNJ has just pushed back as QF464 MELSYD.

Flight QF464 from Melbourne to Sydney
https://fr24.com/QFA464/2336d71e

Image



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let's hope what caused it to be grounded is the end of it now. Presume it will also operate QF497 back to MEL tonight


QF497 appears to be A330 equipment.

More than likely operating tomorrows QF141 SYDAKL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNJ is operating QF497 as per FR24
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:48 am

qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Let's hope what caused it to be grounded is the end of it now. Presume it will also operate QF497 back to MEL tonight


QF497 appears to be A330 equipment.

More than likely operating tomorrows QF141 SYDAKL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNJ is operating QF497 as per FR24


Correct, just had a look. ;)

Must’ve filled in for VHEBC which would’ve operated QF497.


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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:50 am

EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:

QF497 appears to be A330 equipment.

More than likely operating tomorrows QF141 SYDAKL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNJ is operating QF497 as per FR24


Correct, just had a look. ;)

Must’ve filled in for VHEBC which would’ve operated QF497.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the status on EBC
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Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:09 pm

qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

ZNJ is operating QF497 as per FR24


Correct, just had a look. ;)

Must’ve filled in for VHEBC which would’ve operated QF497.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the status on EBC


Not serviceable at this point. -EBC popped up on FR24, most probably being towed around.

Image

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
VHZNE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:23 pm

EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:

Correct, just had a look. ;)

Must’ve filled in for VHEBC which would’ve operated QF497.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the status on EBC


Not serviceable at this point. -EBC popped up on FR24, most probably being towed around.

Image

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNJ is also doing freight runs tonight.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:39 pm

Not directly relevant to AU aviation but the A350 Production website, which used to have a fantastic Google Docs spreadsheet of all A350 production status and deliveries plus other information, has shut down overnight, according to its @A350_Production Twitter account "We have been asked to remove all spreadsheets from our website, and will comply with this order. This is the reason for the shutdown of our website effective immediately."
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:56 pm

An anecdote about Qantas' ultra-longhaul flights. I know that it's only one data point, but I have a friend who has to travel frequently between Australia, the US and Europe as a partner in a boutique investment bank. Most trips tend to be short in duration, often incorporating destinations. Despite usually flying economy and upgrades to premium economy (shocked, right? I was after discovering his industry) he is very hopeful that Project Sunrise will proceed. He has done LHR-PER twice and SYD-DFW a number of times and says that they are ideal for his needs and that direct LHR and JFK flights would be even better.

I suppose that for those that can afford to fly business the benefits of an uninterrupted flight are even greater.

Personally, from a holiday maker's perspective I rather enjoy stopovers in Asia and the "Are we there yet?" tends to kick in at around 7 hours or less these days.
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:08 pm

qf2048 wrote:
Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!


Ah, the good old days before so many tourists and you could score some really good Jetstar deals even during school holidays. I still go at least once a year, but I'm starting to prefer flying direct to Kansai with Qantas over the Jetstar-too-early-in-the-morning-flight-to-Cairns departure. I personally prefer KIX due to the number of bad turbulence experiences I've had flying into NRT (anyone know if HND is better?)

I'm a little surprised that Jetstar wouldn't want to use their 787s to provide greater connectivity to Japan from Australia. Maybe complementing the Qantas flights to Sapporo, a destination that is a bit painful to get to from Osaka or Tokyo, but one worth visiting at any time of year. Also Fukuoka, though that probably needs more marketing to become a popular destination.

What would be nice with the Jetstar A321XLRs are a few more direct destinations in Asia. I know a few people who'd love to fly direct to Penang for instance.
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NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:20 pm

allrite wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!


Ah, the good old days before so many tourists and you could score some really good Jetstar deals even during school holidays. I still go at least once a year, but I'm starting to prefer flying direct to Kansai with Qantas over the Jetstar-too-early-in-the-morning-flight-to-Cairns departure. I personally prefer KIX due to the number of bad turbulence experiences I've had flying into NRT (anyone know if HND is better?)

I'm a little surprised that Jetstar wouldn't want to use their 787s to provide greater connectivity to Japan from Australia. Maybe complementing the Qantas flights to Sapporo, a destination that is a bit painful to get to from Osaka or Tokyo, but one worth visiting at any time of year. Also Fukuoka, though that probably needs more marketing to become a popular destination.

What would be nice with the Jetstar A321XLRs are a few more direct destinations in Asia. I know a few people who'd love to fly direct to Penang for instance.


My wife and I love going to Penang and a direct flight would be great. Not sure of the number of Aussies who visit but there always seem to be plenty there when we go.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:54 pm

allrite wrote:
An anecdote about Qantas' ultra-longhaul flights. I know that it's only one data point, but I have a friend who has to travel frequently between Australia, the US and Europe as a partner in a boutique investment bank. Most trips tend to be short in duration, often incorporating destinations. Despite usually flying economy and upgrades to premium economy (shocked, right? I was after discovering his industry) he is very hopeful that Project Sunrise will proceed. He has done LHR-PER twice and SYD-DFW a number of times and says that they are ideal for his needs and that direct LHR and JFK flights would be even better.

I suppose that for those that can afford to fly business the benefits of an uninterrupted flight are even greater.

Personally, from a holiday maker's perspective I rather enjoy stopovers in Asia and the "Are we there yet?" tends to kick in at around 7 hours or less these days.


I’ve done the Perth flight down the back and got 8 hours sleep on both legs. Amazing. You don’t get that with a stop and refuel. Will never stop again.

Totally different if you’re breaking up the journey however.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:30 am

NTLDaz wrote:
allrite wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!


Ah, the good old days before so many tourists and you could score some really good Jetstar deals even during school holidays. I still go at least once a year, but I'm starting to prefer flying direct to Kansai with Qantas over the Jetstar-too-early-in-the-morning-flight-to-Cairns departure. I personally prefer KIX due to the number of bad turbulence experiences I've had flying into NRT (anyone know if HND is better?)

I'm a little surprised that Jetstar wouldn't want to use their 787s to provide greater connectivity to Japan from Australia. Maybe complementing the Qantas flights to Sapporo, a destination that is a bit painful to get to from Osaka or Tokyo, but one worth visiting at any time of year. Also Fukuoka, though that probably needs more marketing to become a popular destination.

What would be nice with the Jetstar A321XLRs are a few more direct destinations in Asia. I know a few people who'd love to fly direct to Penang for instance.


My wife and I love going to Penang and a direct flight would be great. Not sure of the number of Aussies who visit but there always seem to be plenty there when we go.

There are quite a few secondary markets the A321XLR could open up. I recently visited Sabah in Borneo, Currently you have to fly to Kota Kinabalu or Sandakan via KUL. When Australian Airlines was around, it operated to Kota Kinablu using 763s; the A321 is probably the better size for this growing ecotourism market. I assume Jetstar or Air Asia would want some incentives from these regions to open the market up to direct services but in years to come you can see places like Langkawi, Penang, Kota Kinabalu and Koh Samui joining Bali and Phuket as Asian turist destinations with direct links to Australia.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:31 am

ZNJ operating QF775 MEL-PER while ZNK positioning to MEL
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:06 am

QF will launch BNE-TMW on 29 March 2020 on Q400s.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -take-off/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:12 am

allrite wrote:
An anecdote about Qantas' ultra-longhaul flights. I know that it's only one data point, but I have a friend who has to travel frequently between Australia, the US and Europe as a partner in a boutique investment bank. Most trips tend to be short in duration, often incorporating destinations. Despite usually flying economy and upgrades to premium economy (shocked, right? I was after discovering his industry) he is very hopeful that Project Sunrise will proceed. He has done LHR-PER twice and SYD-DFW a number of times and says that they are ideal for his needs and that direct LHR and JFK flights would be even better.

I suppose that for those that can afford to fly business the benefits of an uninterrupted flight are even greater.

Personally, from a holiday maker's perspective I rather enjoy stopovers in Asia and the "Are we there yet?" tends to kick in at around 7 hours or less these days.


And when you consider the changeout rates for some of these business people can be up over the $2000 per hour, saving some of this time is going to be preferred. Not that this is always charged for but it is something that people look at, including the individuals earning that $2000+ ph.

Sunrise will definitely be a favoured option for business to get to LHR/JFK etc.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:13 am

Singapore Airlines SIN-ADL to increase form 7 to 10 weekly, 3 Jul - 31 Aug 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -increase/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:03 am

getluv wrote:
QF will launch BNE-TMW on 29 March 2020 on Q400s.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -take-off/


This will be interesting to how this effects FC. They have be on that route for a while now.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:02 am

qf2048 wrote:
getluv wrote:
QF will launch BNE-TMW on 29 March 2020 on Q400s.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -take-off/


This will be interesting to how this effects FC. They have be on that route for a while now.


Will surely see them exit the route. There are enough unserved city pairs out there they can operate their 340s and Metroliners on, they don't need to compete against QF that will bring a lot more capacity than this route has seen before!

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QF2559 TMW 1425 - BNE 1540
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:30 am

I do wonder if QF launching BNE-TMW will be the end of the Q400 flights BNE-CBR, at least on week days (the Sat/Sun flights are in lieu of the normal 717 on quiet days for business travel whereas the Tues/Thurs frequencies are additional). The aircraft normally swaps in CBR with an aircraft flown in from SYD to form a BNE-CBR-SYD(-TMW) rotation to bridge the aircraft into Tamworth for maintenance.

Also, maybe this was discussed and I missed it, but I see MU is increasing BNE-PVG to 10 weekly for the January/CNY peak.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:35 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Not directly relevant to AU aviation but the A350 Production website, which used to have a fantastic Google Docs spreadsheet of all A350 production status and deliveries plus other information, has shut down overnight, according to its @A350_Production Twitter account "We have been asked to remove all spreadsheets from our website, and will comply with this order. This is the reason for the shutdown of our website effective immediately."


That probably also explains why aibfamily.flights also doesn't have that Production List Page anymore. I was wondering about that.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:48 pm

VHZNE wrote:
EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

What is the status on EBC


Not serviceable at this point. -EBC popped up on FR24, most probably being towed around.

Image

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ZNJ is also doing freight runs tonight.


Expected back into service tomorrow morning.


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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:00 pm

qf789 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

PER-LHR if Project Sunrise gets up, if we go by figures that over 50% is O&D ex Perth, and it's re-routed to originate/terminate in BNE. Some of the 787 would be filled with some of the BNE passengers.
Also wouldn't be that difficult to time the ex-ADL flights to connect into PER as well (for those not wanting to go to SYD or MEL). Basically the PER-LHR flight would be carrying the combined passengers of the "3 smaller cities" of PER/BNE/ADL.

DRW or HBA would be nice, but I wouldn't think QF would find that necessary and will more likely connect those smaller cities to MEL or SYD instead.


DRW passengers would probably use either but PER would offer less flying time plus QF current DRW times seem to connect with PER-LHR. Having said that SYD or MEL could be used as well. Passengers don't always take the most direct route, yesterday I saw a couple route DRW-PER-SYD-ABX and have seen quite a few do PER-BNE-AUH-BOM as well. Where HBA is concerned I cant see QF flying it as long as VA is doing it, there just isn't that much demand there. While the 738 is ok on the route for it to be offered more than 3 days a week a smaller aircraft is required, The A220 would be perfect for this route


I respectfully disagree with your statement about lack of demand on PER-HBA. Prior to the VA non-stop service, PER-HBA was the 6th busiest connecting market nationwide; it is now 13th, down only 35% —see https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/30/iata-slots-in-brisbane-nears-key-unserved-australia-routes-revealed/. This suggests there remains potential for more non-stop flights. VA has increased to six-weekly over the Easter school holidays, which is significant because all growth had been cancelled. Interestingly, the Sunday 19 April extra service departs HBA at 13:05, but there is a Fremantle vs North Melbourne AFL match in HBA that day that begins at 13:10 — surely this flight would be better timed to return to PER after the match! Furthermore, there are a thousand new hotel rooms scheduled to open in HBA before the end of next year, so expect increases from all airlines. Having said that, QF don't appear in expansion mode, although they have announced some new routes like MQL-SYD, BNE-TMW et. al., and they would be short on 737s given the crack issue. Perhaps JQ would consider PER-HBA in the 321LR when they arrive next year; it could operate as a tag to a PER-Asia flight?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:40 pm

TasFlyer wrote:
qf789 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

PER-LHR if Project Sunrise gets up, if we go by figures that over 50% is O&D ex Perth, and it's re-routed to originate/terminate in BNE. Some of the 787 would be filled with some of the BNE passengers.
Also wouldn't be that difficult to time the ex-ADL flights to connect into PER as well (for those not wanting to go to SYD or MEL). Basically the PER-LHR flight would be carrying the combined passengers of the "3 smaller cities" of PER/BNE/ADL.

DRW or HBA would be nice, but I wouldn't think QF would find that necessary and will more likely connect those smaller cities to MEL or SYD instead.


DRW passengers would probably use either but PER would offer less flying time plus QF current DRW times seem to connect with PER-LHR. Having said that SYD or MEL could be used as well. Passengers don't always take the most direct route, yesterday I saw a couple route DRW-PER-SYD-ABX and have seen quite a few do PER-BNE-AUH-BOM as well. Where HBA is concerned I cant see QF flying it as long as VA is doing it, there just isn't that much demand there. While the 738 is ok on the route for it to be offered more than 3 days a week a smaller aircraft is required, The A220 would be perfect for this route


I respectfully disagree with your statement about lack of demand on PER-HBA. Prior to the VA non-stop service, PER-HBA was the 6th busiest connecting market nationwide; it is now 13th, down only 35% —see https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/30/iata-slots-in-brisbane-nears-key-unserved-australia-routes-revealed/. This suggests there remains potential for more non-stop flights. VA has increased to six-weekly over the Easter school holidays, which is significant because all growth had been cancelled. Interestingly, the Sunday 19 April extra service departs HBA at 13:05, but there is a Fremantle vs North Melbourne AFL match in HBA that day that begins at 13:10 — surely this flight would be better timed to return to PER after the match! Furthermore, there are a thousand new hotel rooms scheduled to open in HBA before the end of next year, so expect increases from all airlines. Having said that, QF don't appear in expansion mode, although they have announced some new routes like MQL-SYD, BNE-TMW et. al., and they would be short on 737s given the crack issue. Perhaps JQ would consider PER-HBA in the 321LR when they arrive next year; it could operate as a tag to a PER-Asia flight?


My comment was in response to Qantas starting PER-HBA which would connect on to PER-LHR. I don't see PER-HBA being served by more than one airline, PER-MEL-HBA is still quite popular and hypothetically if there were more PER-HBA flights there would likely be less demand on MEL-HBA. Going off the 61,400 passengers travelling between PER and HBA, that equates to 168 passengers a day, which equivalent to 1 737. My whole argument is if frequency was to be increased, a smaller aircraft would be suit the route better.

VA has stated several times now that they will be disciplined on capacity, growth hasn't been cancelled however they are being cautious. Today they have run extra flights between SYD and MEL to PER. Currently there are 2 redeye flights to MEL in the air. Friday will see BNE-PER see an extra flight while both SYD-PER and MEL-PER see an extra 2 flights each. Friday night will see 2 redeyes to each city being SYD, MEL and BNE. Saturday will see A332 MEL-PER flights triple, usually there is only 1 rotation on a Saturday, there will be 3 this Saturday. This says that they are adjusting capacity to demand. Also I will add that the redeyes from PER see a significant amount of passengers transfer onto other flights, mostly international, on VA own services, LAX, AKL, CHC, WLG, ZQN, NAN just to name a few and also onto other partner airlines such as DL and AC
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:42 pm

VARA will expand their A320 fleet in 2020 by 3 more aircraft, the first arriving in March, this will take the fleet up to 9 by the end of 2020
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:42 pm

qf789 wrote:
VARA will expand their A320 fleet in 2020 by 3 more aircraft, the first arriving in March, this will take the fleet up to 9 by the end of 2020

The A320 is gradually replacing the F100s in the regional fleets of both VARA and QFLink though there is obviously a long way to go but the F100s are now all over 25 years old and I think nearly 80% of the world's remaining fleet is Australian registered. Parts are scarce meaning some planes are now being scrapped just for rotables..

It is interesting to see how the A320 appears preferred to the 737NG for these services. I assume it is because their short field performance is a little bit better but loading the A320 would seem a little bit harder than the 737 due to containers and height. There is a rough runway pack available for A320s but I don't believe the AU fleets have them; as far as I know, only Air India ever took the option.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:52 pm

A320s can also be bulk loaded using the nets instead of using cans. Which saves them putting a trepell at every port they fly into.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:43 pm

tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VARA will expand their A320 fleet in 2020 by 3 more aircraft, the first arriving in March, this will take the fleet up to 9 by the end of 2020

The A320 is gradually replacing the F100s in the regional fleets of both VARA and QFLink though there is obviously a long way to go but the F100s are now all over 25 years old and I think nearly 80% of the world's remaining fleet is Australian registered. Parts are scarce meaning some planes are now being scrapped just for rotables..

It is interesting to see how the A320 appears preferred to the 737NG for these services. I assume it is because their short field performance is a little bit better but loading the A320 would seem a little bit harder than the 737 due to containers and height. There is a rough runway pack available for A320s but I don't believe the AU fleets have them; as far as I know, only Air India ever took the option.


It could be a case of the A320s still have some time on their leases, so swapping them from TT to VARA maintains the lease, and still winds down the number of F100s.

It'd then be a decision as to whether maintain the A320s and (maybe grab some cheap A319s) to cover the complete withdrawal of the F100s or a new fleeting type, eg A220, which would be more expensive.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:19 pm

Obzerva wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VARA will expand their A320 fleet in 2020 by 3 more aircraft, the first arriving in March, this will take the fleet up to 9 by the end of 2020

The A320 is gradually replacing the F100s in the regional fleets of both VARA and QFLink though there is obviously a long way to go but the F100s are now all over 25 years old and I think nearly 80% of the world's remaining fleet is Australian registered. Parts are scarce meaning some planes are now being scrapped just for rotables..

It is interesting to see how the A320 appears preferred to the 737NG for these services. I assume it is because their short field performance is a little bit better but loading the A320 would seem a little bit harder than the 737 due to containers and height. There is a rough runway pack available for A320s but I don't believe the AU fleets have them; as far as I know, only Air India ever took the option.


It could be a case of the A320s still have some time on their leases, so swapping them from TT to VARA maintains the lease, and still winds down the number of F100s.

It'd then be a decision as to whether maintain the A320s and (maybe grab some cheap A319s) to cover the complete withdrawal of the F100s or a new fleeting type, eg A220, which would be more expensive.

Regional and FIFO fleets don't have the utilisation to justify a new type like the A220.

The F100 and, before that, BAe146 have been the backbone of FIFO fleets because they are cheap to acquire and resilient in the rough environments they operate. 717s have partly filled the void but there weren't that many of them made and the entire world fleet of the now 20+ year old fleet is basically owned by DL, HA and QF. The Embraer E-jets have partly been used but don't have a significant operating cost advantage over the A320. As A320s and 737NGs are being retired or rolled out of mainline fleets, they are the next comparatively low-cost option available to the FIFO airlines and it appears the A320 is currently the preferred option.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:17 am

Obzerva wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VARA will expand their A320 fleet in 2020 by 3 more aircraft, the first arriving in March, this will take the fleet up to 9 by the end of 2020

The A320 is gradually replacing the F100s in the regional fleets of both VARA and QFLink though there is obviously a long way to go but the F100s are now all over 25 years old and I think nearly 80% of the world's remaining fleet is Australian registered. Parts are scarce meaning some planes are now being scrapped just for rotables..

It is interesting to see how the A320 appears preferred to the 737NG for these services. I assume it is because their short field performance is a little bit better but loading the A320 would seem a little bit harder than the 737 due to containers and height. There is a rough runway pack available for A320s but I don't believe the AU fleets have them; as far as I know, only Air India ever took the option.


It could be a case of the A320s still have some time on their leases, so swapping them from TT to VARA maintains the lease, and still winds down the number of F100s.

It'd then be a decision as to whether maintain the A320s and (maybe grab some cheap A319s) to cover the complete withdrawal of the F100s or a new fleeting type, eg A220, which would be more expensive.


The A320's are in Y configuration which makes it a better option to replace the F100's over 737's. The only routes that see A320's but not 737's are BYP, CJF and WLP all of which operate on a charter basis for FIFO runs. The other route that sees A320's is the 2 weekly run to Christmas and Cocos Islands. VA flies a mix of 737's and A320's on ZNE, PHE, BME, KGI, OCM, DRW and ADL. On many of these routes its a waste to put an aircraft with J class on it as it is either not sold (as in the FIFO runs) or doesn't sell well at all. All WA flights that 737's run rarely see more than 1 or 2 J class seats sold so for VA it is a matter of utilising the fleet better so those aircraft are deployed on routes where they make more money

The A320's are bulk loaded, containers aren't used or nor are they going to be used. In this case the 737 is an easier aircraft to bulk load simply due to the fact the rear hold has the sliding carpet and even though it can store about 200 bags it can be done by one person. The front hold requires 2 people to load so in the situation of loading the 2 on hold would normal start in the front and as that gets full one would move to the back. The A320 on the other hand requires 2 people in both front and back. The other advantage the 737 has is the forward hold is also temperature controlled so animals/pets cans be accommodated where as on the A320 pets can not be put in the hold at all.

While the argument can be made of the A320 being a larger aircraft replacing the F100 with it has its advantages. Operating a F100 on ADL-PER is right its limit, sometimes payload restricted. Operating an A320/737 on the same route as a F100, the cost in negligible, as the A320/737 only burns about 100-200 kgs of fuel more than what a F100 does, so it could be argued the larger jet is more efficient in some ways

As for XCH/CCK runs, the route is not one that sees a high volume of passengers however it does see a high volume of cargo. Even if the load is around 100-120 passengers you quite often see 250 bags checked in. This route is quite unique to VA's network. Not only does it require careful planning from ops its also an essential service to those on those 2 islands. Once bags are checked in they are separated into normal checked baggage and excess baggage. When the bag count gets on the high side excess baggage can quite be left off the flight due to limitations required for flight. The diversion point for both XCH and CCK is CGK. On Fridays the route runs PER-CCK-XCH-PER though it does stop off at LEA for fuel on the way to CCK as it requires enough fuel to divert to CGK if it cant land at CCK and XCH is not a viable option, so departing LEA the aircraft is pretty much taking on close to max fuel.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:41 am

VA Regional also does MEL-KGI with the A320's, they also do a few MEL-ADL services during the weekend before the A320 gets rotated back to KGI then onwards to PER.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:53 am

allrite wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Travel between Australia and Japan has really boomed over the last few years. I count about 7 daily flights which have been added in the last few years alone!


Ah, the good old days before so many tourists and you could score some really good Jetstar deals even during school holidays. I still go at least once a year, but I'm starting to prefer flying direct to Kansai with Qantas over the Jetstar-too-early-in-the-morning-flight-to-Cairns departure. I personally prefer KIX due to the number of bad turbulence experiences I've had flying into NRT (anyone know if HND is better?)

I'm a little surprised that Jetstar wouldn't want to use their 787s to provide greater connectivity to Japan from Australia. Maybe complementing the Qantas flights to Sapporo, a destination that is a bit painful to get to from Osaka or Tokyo, but one worth visiting at any time of year. Also Fukuoka, though that probably needs more marketing to become a popular destination.

What would be nice with the Jetstar A321XLRs are a few more direct destinations in Asia. I know a few people who'd love to fly direct to Penang for instance.


I think PR has the budget Australia-Japan market covered. Not unknown to get MEL-Japan flights on them for as low as $600 return. Even seen prices on the JL MEL-NRT redeye as low as $795 return.... Tempting....
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:27 am

Are the VARA A320 pilots on the VA seniority list or is regional separate?
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:57 am

Obzerva wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VARA will expand their A320 fleet in 2020 by 3 more aircraft, the first arriving in March, this will take the fleet up to 9 by the end of 2020

The A320 is gradually replacing the F100s in the regional fleets of both VARA and QFLink though there is obviously a long way to go but the F100s are now all over 25 years old and I think nearly 80% of the world's remaining fleet is Australian registered. Parts are scarce meaning some planes are now being scrapped just for rotables..

It is interesting to see how the A320 appears preferred to the 737NG for these services. I assume it is because their short field performance is a little bit better but loading the A320 would seem a little bit harder than the 737 due to containers and height. There is a rough runway pack available for A320s but I don't believe the AU fleets have them; as far as I know, only Air India ever took the option.


It could be a case of the A320s still have some time on their leases, so swapping them from TT to VARA maintains the lease, and still winds down the number of F100s.

It'd then be a decision as to whether maintain the A320s and (maybe grab some cheap A319s) to cover the complete withdrawal of the F100s or a new fleeting type, eg A220, which would be more expensive.


Think the decision to go A320 was partly the contracts Virgin & Qantas signed with FMG,Rio & BHP. When iron ore prices are high they are pretty flexible with hiring & rosters & its cheaper to charter a bigger plane than 2 F100s or paying full fares on normal scheduled flights. Qantas even parks a 737 overnight & during the day at Roy Hill most week days.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:23 pm

a320fan wrote:
Are the VARA A320 pilots on the VA seniority list or is regional separate?


Pilotss lists for Virgin Australia & VARA are separate according to the VARA 2019 EBA
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:30 pm

Interesting comment - had access to rates and the 2X f100 was cheaper than the 737 when talking QF link. Not by much mind when talking seat cost when you have an extra 70% capacity.

At the moment it is all about capacity with all the iron ore projects starting up. Second component is the 320/737 jets are good on the 2000 meter long strips in the Pilbara, plenty of grunt to get off the ground in the 45 degree heat. F100's suffer and are effectively a major workforce annoyance when they have to puddle hop to another (longer) airstrip like Paraburdoo, Christmas creek, Barrimunya to refuel.

Its a major PITA and adds 90 mins to the flight.

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