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mercure1
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Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:17 pm

I guess profitability is not an issue. :banghead:


Garuda Indonesia plans to open 20 new international routes in 2020 to attract more tourists to enter Indonesia.

Garuda Indonesia President Director Ari Askhara revealed that one of the new international routes opened was Jakarta-Istanbul. In addition, the airline will also open flights to Taipei from Surabaya and Denpasar.

"We do this so that more foreign tourists visit Indonesia so that it can help the government to boost the number of incoming tourists," he said during the launch of the new A330-900 NEO fleet, Wednesday


Garuda Indonesia will open 20 new international routes from January 2020
https://amp.kompas.com/money/read/2019/ ... nuari-2020
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janders
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:38 pm

Sounds like a marketing sound bite - 20 routes in 2020.

Not sure what the point is when GA can't even manage to fully operate its existing international network.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
BML87
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:45 pm

Before opening this thread I knew Taipei would be one of the destinations. Surprised it's from Surabaya though. Garuda doesn't serve CGK-TPE...
 
9w748capt
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:08 pm

More tourists? Has anyone from GA been to Bali recently? More tourists are the last thing Bali needs.
 
smi0006
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:14 pm

It’s a shame, with a low cost base and some decent management, and infrastructure, combined with a fleet of narrow and wide bodies - GA and CGK could be decent hub in Asia. Sadly GA and CGK have neither of these. Good luck to them. Perhaps when Indonesia moves it to its new capital city they will have a decent airport.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:27 pm

9w748capt wrote:
More tourists? Has anyone from GA been to Bali recently? More tourists are the last thing Bali needs.


Well there are many other interesting places beyond Bali to visit.
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tphuang
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:36 pm

9w748capt wrote:
More tourists? Has anyone from GA been to Bali recently? More tourists are the last thing Bali needs.

Bali tourists fly into dps, not chk.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:44 pm

Would be nice if they acquired the A350-900ULR and that could allow for nonstop flights from Jakarta to Los Angeles and New York City.
 
Antarius
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:00 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Would be nice if they acquired the A350-900ULR and that could allow for nonstop flights from Jakarta to Los Angeles and New York City.


This would be daft. SQ has a absurdly premium heavy 359 and that's the only reason the flight makes sense.

This would be the money loser of all money losers.
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skipness1E
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:07 am

Indonesia sees Garuda as an extension of public policy. This was once common in the west so all the headbangers shouting about profitability need to contextualise that. I mean icons like BOAC and QANTAS have been there and done this. In some way, they’re trying to do what’s right for Indonesia and it’s people (and line their own pockets which is where this often goes wrong).
It’s a very US-centric view to see everything in terms of profit and loss. A halfway decent yet loss making Garuda might still be a huge benefit to the country!
 
NLDru
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:22 am

Garuda is not reliable in terms of flight their schedules. I know many families and friends who had booked a direct flight from Amsterdam to Jakarta at the start of this year. Subsequently, Garuda suddenly changed the flight via Medan. An extra hassle with a transit. The advantage with Garuda was that it had a direct flight to Jakarta. Everyone was very disappointed that Garuda had suddenly changed the flight schedule on a short notice.

What is also annoying is that Garuda had changed the flight to the early morning. Not really pleasant if you do not live close to Schiphol and have to be present three hours before departure. The previous departure of 16:00 was ok.

Most friends and family will next time opt for Lufthansa or KLM. Because these flights depart from Schiphol in the evenings and arrive in the morning. A stopover in Frankfurt or Kuala Lumpur is also convenient.

Tourism:
If the Indonesian government wants to attract tourists in other cities, it must offer a flight to Bandung. The Indonesian diaspora in the Netherlands has its traces in Bandung, Bogor and the surrounding area. Between 1.5 and two millions of people in the Netherlands are of Indonesian descent. Most Dutch tourists start their tour through Indonesia in Bandung. Bandung is known for its rich Dutch/European architecture and cool climate. Most Dutch (and European) tourist now fly first to Jakarta, spend a night in a hotel and then leave the next day for Bandung. Jakarta is not visited because it is not a popular tourist destination. From Bandung they travel by car or train to Yogyakarta, Semarang, Surabaya and then Bali.

Another destination is the Moluccas. A large community of Moluccans lives in the Netherlands. The first Moluccan families arrived in the Netherlands in the 1950s. They were soldiers who were loyal to the Dutch Crown. Since then there has been a large Moluccan community that still feels very actively connected to the Moluccan islands in Indonesia. Flight from Amsterdam to the Moluccas via Jakarta is expensive. A domestic flight from Jakarta to the Moluccas costs around 400 Euros.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:24 am

smi0006 wrote:
It’s a shame, with a low cost base and some decent management, and infrastructure, combined with a fleet of narrow and wide bodies - GA and CGK could be decent hub in Asia. Sadly GA and CGK have neither of these. Good luck to them. Perhaps when Indonesia moves it to its new capital city they will have a decent airport.


I'm not sure where you want people to connect to and from in CGK. Connecting in SIN is already a stretch for maaaany people and Sg has much more premium traffic yet CGK is even more out of the way, pretty rubbish for anything other than Australia and NZ (that they don't even fly to).

Also, I don't get how CGK works, the way it uses gates is just so wierd to me.
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:25 am

mercure1 wrote:
I guess profitability is not an issue. :banghead:


Profitability is probably a very long way down the list of concerns for Garuda. They are a government owned airline who would rather make a loss then embarrass themselves and the government by cutting loss making routes. Its a very western-centric view to think profit is king and in cases like Garuda, it isn't an appropriate concern to be having.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:26 am

skipness1E wrote:
Indonesia sees Garuda as an extension of public policy. This was once common in the west so all the headbangers shouting about profitability need to contextualise that. I mean icons like BOAC and QANTAS have been there and done this. In some way, they’re trying to do what’s right for Indonesia and it’s people (and line their own pockets which is where this often goes wrong).
It’s a very US-centric view to see everything in terms of profit and loss. A halfway decent yet loss making Garuda might still be a huge benefit to the country!


^ This. Well said.

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africawings
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:54 am

Would be nice to see Gaurda serve West Africa. Surprising the amount of growing business between theses two hemispheres
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:29 am

Neither Garuda nor the Indonesian government know if they are coming or going.

On one side they complain of losses, change CEO's, tell them to restructure the company, and on the other side such non-sense of 20 new markets in 2020.

Having a government airline as a state instrument is fine is a nation can afford it, but Garuda is hardly a model of efficiency nor clear state policy.

Heck GA cant figure out how to serve Europe properly, nor even domestic markets having just announced plans to withdraw from a number of domestic airports - which hardly is the action a state-mandated airline meant to provide links, provide a public service, or fly the national flag.
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SCFlyer
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:45 am

Antarius wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Would be nice if they acquired the A350-900ULR and that could allow for nonstop flights from Jakarta to Los Angeles and New York City.


This would be daft. SQ has a absurdly premium heavy 359 and that's the only reason the flight makes sense.

This would be the money loser of all money losers.


In addition to Indonesia in general being a low yielding market for the majority of routes. Yields are simply not high enough for a ULR from any Indonesian port to any of the USA west coast cities (e.g LAX/SFO/etc).

Hence, why a long haul Low Cost Carrier may suit a hypothetical Indonesia-USA route to cater for the low yielding/VFR/tourist/budget nature of an Indonesia-USA route.

In addition, there would also need to be an aircraft suited for long-haul LCCs that can make the journey at full payload, which isn't likely any time soon.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:58 am

Garuda is going to end up like Malaysian and Thai.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:10 am

tphuang wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
More tourists? Has anyone from GA been to Bali recently? More tourists are the last thing Bali needs.

Bali tourists fly into dps, not chk.


Huh? When did I say anything about Bali tourists flying to "chk"?
 
jupiter2
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:17 am

Garuda is in an unenviable position, just one look at a map will show that trying to service Indonesia as a national airline must be truly difficult. Huge distances, rugged operating environment, the government as your master, expected to deliver world class service to the nations middle and upper classes, but still expected to be affordable and available to the less well off, while most likely also having to carry hangers on from the rich and well known as "staff" at some level, while also having to deal with poor infrastructure at a lot of the ports they serve. Not forgetting taking care of huge numbers of pilgrims each year as well. Would any of the esteemed, self declared geniuses on this board want to have a crack at running the airline ? Not likely if you want to remain sane.

20 new international routes for 2020 may seem ridiculous, but Indonesia wants more tourists, not just to Bali, they have a huge nation for the world to visit and the easier it is for people to get to these destinations, the more likely people will go. So as long as the Indonesian government puts money up for tourism advertising campaigns, especially to the markets that these new routes will be targeting, then the more likely these new routes maybe successful.
 
tso310
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:24 am

I believe the figure refers to the number of times the LHR route will be stopping and restarting.
 
flyingisthebest
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:24 am

I would like to see them do Jakarta to Brisbane as it’s a route currently unserved directly and should be doable with a MAX when they come back online.

Another one they could do is AKL-DPS as it’s currently only Air NZ on it.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:46 am

My guesses, GA finally goes tits up in 2021. This is just absurd, hopefully maybe only 1 long haul & the rest regional at least, letting the blood flow less quickly. Financial hemorrhaging will be increasing with this guaranteed.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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Bluebird191
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:07 am

flyingisthebest wrote:
I would like to see them do Jakarta to Brisbane as it’s a route currently unserved directly and should be doable with a MAX when they come back online.

Another one they could do is AKL-DPS as it’s currently only Air NZ on it.


And EK with 3-class 77W’s.
 
AdEd
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:33 am

How exactly are they supposed to open 20 new routes in 2020 when most of their current international routes (aside from SIN, KUL and BKK) are running less than daily? Heck they don’t even have CGK-PEK anymore. The usually daily DPS-SYD and DPS-MEL have been cut down to 5-6 weekly and it’s practically near peak season for those routes. CGK-HKG and DPS-HKG are both at twice weekly. What a huge, huge shame. And there they are aspiring to launch 20 new routes when they have such a messy International operation.
Last edited by AdEd on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AdEd
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:40 am

flyingisthebest wrote:
I would like to see them do Jakarta to Brisbane as it’s a route currently unserved directly and should be doable with a MAX when they come back online.

Another one they could do is AKL-DPS as it’s currently only Air NZ on it.


Tell you what they were pretty close to launching BNE in 2015 until a new CEO took over at the tail end of 2014 and drastically cut down GA Int’l ops. They reduced Tokyo ops from four to two daily from CGK and DPS combined, cancelled TPE, cancelled a 4th daily rotation on BKK, and cancelled the impending launch of BNE. And with CGK-SYD/MEL at about 3-4 weekly currently, CGK-BNE is pretty much a lost cause. At least until GA gets back up on their feet.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:44 am

So that's why they're selling their 20 CRJ1000's. 20 regional routes out, 20 international routes in.

Sarcasm aside, the strategy is not wrong.
With fleet downsizing programs being rolled out at prominent carriers like BA, QF, CX, EK, AF, and others, there are opportunities in the Asia-Oceania market, the Kangaroo route, but also Asia-Europe and Asia-U.S. If cheap enough.
Garuda is not a very premium carrier in terms of product (fares are another thing) but they have a low cost workforce. Their positioning is not too good but they have a huuuuuge potential in their own domestic market.
Incomes are rising crazy fast, huge population, vast country, little competition.
If I had to choose to bet my money on India or Indonesia, I would put it on Indonesia and specifically Jakarta.

I wouldn't bet too much on Garuda, but what the heck, surprise me. I'd much rather look at an aggressive Garuda than a status quo, pro-bonus, all-you-can piss off and scew up management of some EU and other airlines.
 
trent768
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:50 am

According to the news, they were making some decent profit this year. Not much, but at least it was an actual profit and not some made up profit (selling the HQ and planes) like the old management did years ago. I think they just realised that profit is more important than skytrax and started to cut some unnecessary costs. I even heard that the load to Europe is improving significantly, with many local pax from Medan filling the plane. I know that it doesn't mean the route is profitable, but their European flights are always super expensive. So it might made some money.

What annoys me is that many locals complains about the service cut, yet they didn't want to pay the premium for that extra service. They basically wants SQ service with FR price.

In another news, the decision to move their European service to DPS was rumored because of the CEO's personal interest and some said it was to please his mistress. I personally didn't care about that. He can do whatever he wants as long as they're profitable and didn't use my tax money to cover their losses.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:48 pm

GA operated CGK-TPE with a 738. It lost USD1M/month. Route suspended in 2015 IIRC.
BNE-DPS relaunch talk lasted one week.
20 new Intl destinations will not happen.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:53 pm

20 for 20. Sounds like a marketing gimmick.

Seriously though, one issue with Indonesia is its size and fact that creating a single hub meant to serve the country is an impossible task from both geographic, demographic and facility wise. Flying point to point also troublesome for someone like GA with its relatively high cost base compared to LCCs in the region.
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LAXintl
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:45 pm

Sure GA can focus on single hub and becoming Jakarta Airways, though a coherent multi-hub strategy should also be possible considering how large and populous Indonesia is. There is certainly a good volume of demand to multiple markets.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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janders
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:18 pm

While obviously populous nation, does Indonesia have the underlying demand to support a multi-hub full service carrier?

The market seems more suitable to LCCs than a widebody premium carrier.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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mercure1
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:56 pm

Domestically one thing that certainly does not help is GA's low market share. As of 2017 it was only 20%. Add in its LCC Citilink its only 33%.
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alexwm
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:29 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Garuda is in an unenviable position, just one look at a map will show that trying to service Indonesia as a national airline must be truly difficult. Huge distances, rugged operating environment, the government as your master, expected to deliver world class service to the nations middle and upper classes, but still expected to be affordable and available to the less well off, while most likely also having to carry hangers on from the rich and well known as "staff" at some level, while also having to deal with poor infrastructure at a lot of the ports they serve. Not forgetting taking care of huge numbers of pilgrims each year as well. Would any of the esteemed, self declared geniuses on this board want to have a crack at running the airline ? Not likely if you want to remain sane.

20 new international routes for 2020 may seem ridiculous, but Indonesia wants more tourists, not just to Bali, they have a huge nation for the world to visit and the easier it is for people to get to these destinations, the more likely people will go. So as long as the Indonesian government puts money up for tourism advertising campaigns, especially to the markets that these new routes will be targeting, then the more likely these new routes maybe successful.


I couldn’t agree more with this post. Garuda has to cater to extremely different customer types as Indonesia’s national airline. Additionally, I also question why Garuda should be focused on profitability. Many of the islands other than Bali have potential to become world-class tourist destinations (eg Lombok, Flores, etc) and Garuda should support that mission.
 
bcbhokie
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Garuda is not a very premium carrier in terms of product (fares are another thing) but they have a low cost workforce. Their positioning is not too good but they have a huuuuuge potential in their own domestic market.


Onboard in premium cabins, GA is actually spectacular - easily one of the best in SkyTeam. It's important to keep in mind this isn't necessarily a good thing - profitability has been a secondary priority to prestige for the management and ownership. But the one thing GA has going for it right now is a fabulous onboard experience and premium cabin product, and they should take advantage of that position when opening new routes as a differentiator.
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:14 am

smi0006 wrote:
It’s a shame, with a low cost base and some decent management, and infrastructure, combined with a fleet of narrow and wide bodies - GA and CGK could be decent hub in Asia. Sadly GA and CGK have neither of these. Good luck to them. Perhaps when Indonesia moves it to its new capital city they will have a decent airport.


But where can it be a hub for?
25 million Australians? Yes I know Indonesia is a huge market in itself, but geographically its not ideally placed. Presently Indonesia sees limited international demand. And unfortunately its not improving, with its consistent persecution of Christians etc, less and less investments are incoming and more and more companies are running Indonesia from Singapore. Maybe, the Chinese will try hard, but with recent anti-Chinese riots i mind, I have a slight belief that they will only stay for so long and also retreat to Singapore and handle all Indo business from there.
Indonesia is its own worst enemy and while the country is finally making progress, new infrastructure being built, unfortunately it coincides with a rise in religious fundamentalism, maintained extreme corruptions, making the country less appealing for international visitors/business. Even companies like IKEA choose not to directly engage in indo but instead letting a local partner handle the work.

bcbhokie wrote:
Onboard in premium cabins, GA is actually spectacular - easily one of the best in SkyTeam.

I concur. For SE Asia, GA is one of the best premium carriers. They are what MH used to be (before the political elite and their nepotism destroyed the carrier), good crews, good food and quality service.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:23 am

They are a fantastic airline, wish them every success . Simply on population growth alone 20 new routes is easily achievable . A more pronounced multi hub strategy linking Oz with The EU via DPS and more Asian hubbing via Jarkarta is a possible way forward
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:39 am

The problem with DPS kangaroo route hubbing is with the ME3 and CN3 also in the market, the yields are trash and GA would offer a 2 stop product. Transit via CGK and you can get 1 stop, but again it's about yields.

The 20 new Intl routes is just a sound bite.

As for BNE-CGK, the pax numbers are too seasonal, even with a Max. Yes the route is on BNE Airport's wish list, but again the numbers aren't there with minimal Indo originating pax.
 
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terrificturk
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Re: Garuda to open 20 new international routes in 2020

Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:59 am

NLDru wrote:
Garuda is not reliable in terms of flight their schedules. I know many families and friends who had booked a direct flight from Amsterdam to Jakarta at the start of this year. Subsequently, Garuda suddenly changed the flight via Medan. An extra hassle with a transit. The advantage with Garuda was that it had a direct flight to Jakarta. Everyone was very disappointed that Garuda had suddenly changed the flight schedule on a short notice.

What is also annoying is that Garuda had changed the flight to the early morning. Not really pleasant if you do not live close to Schiphol and have to be present three hours before departure. The previous departure of 16:00 was ok.

Most friends and family will next time opt for Lufthansa or KLM. Because these flights depart from Schiphol in the evenings and arrive in the morning. A stopover in Frankfurt or Kuala Lumpur is also convenient.

Tourism:
If the Indonesian government wants to attract tourists in other cities, it must offer a flight to Bandung. The Indonesian diaspora in the Netherlands has its traces in Bandung, Bogor and the surrounding area. Between 1.5 and two millions of people in the Netherlands are of Indonesian descent. Most Dutch tourists start their tour through Indonesia in Bandung. Bandung is known for its rich Dutch/European architecture and cool climate. Most Dutch (and European) tourist now fly first to Jakarta, spend a night in a hotel and then leave the next day for Bandung. Jakarta is not visited because it is not a popular tourist destination. From Bandung they travel by car or train to Yogyakarta, Semarang, Surabaya and then Bali.

Another destination is the Moluccas. A large community of Moluccans lives in the Netherlands. The first Moluccan families arrived in the Netherlands in the 1950s. They were soldiers who were loyal to the Dutch Crown. Since then there has been a large Moluccan community that still feels very actively connected to the Moluccan islands in Indonesia. Flight from Amsterdam to the Moluccas via Jakarta is expensive. A domestic flight from Jakarta to the Moluccas costs around 400 Euros.


I lived and worked in Indonesia (mostly JKT area) and wholeheartedly agree... unfortunately, they had a clever CEO that then got dumped. Now its back to the old ways unfortunately.

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