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Someone83
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Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:04 am

Based on the initial slot coordination report for LHR for Summer 2020, Norwegian, in form of Norwegian Air UK, applied for 14 weekly slots at LHR, and has been awarded 6.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... -FINAL.pdf
 
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scbriml
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:13 am

I have to say I'm struggling to understand the benefit to Norwegian of operating out of Heathrow. I'd have thought they'd be better off growing their Gatwick operations.
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a350lover
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:19 am

Wow.... Again a very recurrent statement when it comes to analyze Norwegian strategy (or just trying to): "Didn't see this coming".

I guess the most likely scenario for this could be flying to LHR some of the current flights which they operate from US bases (LAX or JFK), so that they don't have to deploy a base in LHR for just 6 weekly departures. I suspect they couldn't use LGW crews for flights from LHR, unless they shuttle them there somehow.

Is there any info regarding what are the times they have been given?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:32 am

Perhaps they figured they'd give (whatever they plan to do) a try, and if it doesn't work out, then they can lease/sell off those assets?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:34 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Perhaps they figured they'd give (whatever they plan to do) a try, and if it doesn't work out, then they can lease/sell off those assets?


That's another thing I thought as a possibility. However, taking into account Norwegian put up LGW slots in order to delay bond repayment, getting/and paying for slots in expensive Heathrow sounds rather strange.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:36 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Perhaps they figured they'd give (whatever they plan to do) a try, and if it doesn't work out, then they can lease/sell off those assets?


My question is: how can they afford them in the first place?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:37 am

a350lover wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Perhaps they figured they'd give (whatever they plan to do) a try, and if it doesn't work out, then they can lease/sell off those assets?


That's another thing I thought as a possibility. However, taking into account Norwegian put up LGW slots in order to delay bond repayment, getting/and paying for slots in expensive Heathrow sounds rather strange.


These are likely new entrant slots which are not bought from others but given by the slot allocators.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:50 am

Any wild stabs at destinations?!
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:55 am

Probably «New entrants» slot so been giving to them for free. So a good deal for Norwegian

If used, it will most likely be to one of their American bases
 
skipness1E
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:00 am

Well if they thought BA were a tough competitor at LGW, they’re about to find a whole new level of attention from the other big boys!
Unless you are offering a business product to competrt with the legacies, all LHR offers is a slot value if you hold it long enough.
 
andymartin
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:11 pm

This will be for Jet Blue new ops into LHR
 
Armodeen
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:37 pm

Can they immediately lease them out or will the slot award rules prevent that?

Nice little earner for them if they can.
 
QR1350
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:08 pm

I have no knowledge of this so apologies if it’s obvious. But can an airline just get slots to rent for money? I.e. Norwegian are getting these slots with no intention of flying them but immediately renting them out to another operator. Is that possible? I feel like the answer is no haha
 
flyby519
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:12 pm

Jetblue applied for 70 weekly slots according to this as well?
 
andymartin
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:13 pm

Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.
 
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Contrailer
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:19 pm

This is very interesting. I can totally see the slots being used for the US market routes with the recent signed JetBlue partnership. Norwegian recently cancelled some US destination routes originating from CPH and ARN freeing up some 789's. Excited but cautious of this news. :P
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:29 pm

andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.


6 Slots are simply not enough for B6's LON aspirations.
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chunhimlai
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:38 pm

How about LHR-SYD?
 
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:41 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Probably «New entrants» slot so been giving to them for free. So a good deal for Norwegian

If used, it will most likely be to one of their American bases


Are they allowed to just sell them for profit ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:46 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
How about LHR-SYD?


No.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:13 pm

LHR-HNL? :D
 
rrapynot
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:29 pm

I expect they’ll use them for flights between LHR and Scandinavian capitals.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:37 pm

andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.


Well without knowing the times plus JB operating 3 weekly service isn't going to happen...
 
wezgulf3
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:32 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.


6 Slots are simply not enough for B6's LON aspirations.


But the 14 they applied for may have been?

Wes..
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:36 pm

Its for 6x weekly slots. Equivalent to 3x departures and 3x arrivals. The low frequency could mean them handing back the slots and waiting until S21, or launching a low frequency route such as Florida. I think its unlikely Norwegian will use these slots as they need at least daily not 3x weekly
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:46 pm

andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.

6 slots isn’t even a daily flight. Nothing to do with B6.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:47 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
How about LHR-SYD?

Why do you keep DOING THIS?
You’re a parody?
 
Pinto
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:46 pm

LHR could be done by a LGW crew working a W-trip, possibly LGW-JFK-LHR-JFK-LGW. If they were to operate JFK-LHR it could be interesting to see if they can make it work. Also I would imagine they take the 6 slots as they are better than none.
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:56 pm

andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.


It is not a partnership, just a interline agreement
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:57 pm

zeke wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Probably «New entrants» slot so been giving to them for free. So a good deal for Norwegian

If used, it will most likely be to one of their American bases


Are they allowed to just sell them for profit ?


Not without using them. You don’t own slots you never used
 
airbazar
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:58 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Well if they thought BA were a tough competitor at LGW, they’re about to find a whole new level of attention from the other big boys!
Unless you are offering a business product to competrt with the legacies, all LHR offers is a slot value if you hold it long enough.

BA must be shaking in their boots at the prospect of DY flying the grant total of 3 weekly flights from LHR :roll:
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:47 pm

Three weekly is hardly ideal. I get they wanted a daily slot pair, but this has to be almost as bad as getting none. At least if they had got ten slots they could have operated a 5xWeekly to somewhere but 3xWeekly means it's going to need to be an O&D route that doesn't count on frequency. Yet if they don't take them up I guess that might not look good if/when they apply again.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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zeke
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:48 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Not without using them. You don’t own slots you never used


Any idea how long one would need to use them, once, one month, a year ?

Do they need to use them or could they lease them out ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
jcwr56
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:51 pm

And the fact the SRD (Series Return Deadline) is 15 December for S20 means a decision to use them or not will need to made sooner than later.
 
ZuluTime
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:55 pm

You can't lease out or sell slots until you have earned grandfather rights to them, so Norwegian are basically in a position where they have to fly these if they want to do anything.

The slots have been allocated from the pool, and so Norwegian have not had to pay for them. Every year, there's a very small level of natural turnover in LHR slots either through airlines ceasing to trade, some pulling out (e.g. Garuda) and others losing slots as they have not met the performance criteria to earn grandfather rights to them or have failed any efforts to operate the slots punctually (TunisAir). It may be that the slots offered to Norwegian are actually TunisAir's.

They applied for:
Arrival 07:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Arrival 11:45 on Wed
Arrival 12:50 on Mon/Thu/Fri
Departure at 11:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Departure at 20:25 on Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri

They were allocated:
An arrival at 11:00 and departure at 19:00 on Tuesday
An arrival at 13:50 and departure at 16:30 on Saturday
An arrival at 11:45 and departure at 14:45 on Sunday

Remains to be seen if they will actually use these - although if they are serious about building any position at Heathrow, you don't turn down an offer of slots, irrespective of how good or bad they are.

However, for anyone reckoning this is a $100m windfall for Norwegian (as the other thread has suggested!) or some co-operation with jetBlue, think again. It's neither of these!!
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:08 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
You can't lease out or sell slots until you have earned grandfather rights to them, so Norwegian are basically in a position where they have to fly these if they want to do anything.

The slots have been allocated from the pool, and so Norwegian have not had to pay for them. Every year, there's a very small level of natural turnover in LHR slots either through airlines ceasing to trade, some pulling out (e.g. Garuda) and others losing slots as they have not met the performance criteria to earn grandfather rights to them or have failed any efforts to operate the slots punctually (TunisAir). It may be that the slots offered to Norwegian are actually TunisAir's.

They applied for:
Arrival 07:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Arrival 11:45 on Wed
Arrival 12:50 on Mon/Thu/Fri
Departure at 11:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Departure at 20:25 on Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri

They were allocated:
An arrival at 11:00 and departure at 19:00 on Tuesday
An arrival at 13:50 and departure at 16:30 on Saturday
An arrival at 11:45 and departure at 14:45 on Sunday

Remains to be seen if they will actually use these - although if they are serious about building any position at Heathrow, you don't turn down an offer of slots, irrespective of how good or bad they are.

However, for anyone reckoning this is a $100m windfall for Norwegian (as the other thread has suggested!) or some co-operation with jetBlue, think again. It's neither of these!!


What is meant by grandfather rights?
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:30 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
ZuluTime wrote:
You can't lease out or sell slots until you have earned grandfather rights to them, so Norwegian are basically in a position where they have to fly these if they want to do anything.

The slots have been allocated from the pool, and so Norwegian have not had to pay for them. Every year, there's a very small level of natural turnover in LHR slots either through airlines ceasing to trade, some pulling out (e.g. Garuda) and others losing slots as they have not met the performance criteria to earn grandfather rights to them or have failed any efforts to operate the slots punctually (TunisAir). It may be that the slots offered to Norwegian are actually TunisAir's.

They applied for:
Arrival 07:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Arrival 11:45 on Wed
Arrival 12:50 on Mon/Thu/Fri
Departure at 11:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Departure at 20:25 on Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri

They were allocated:
An arrival at 11:00 and departure at 19:00 on Tuesday
An arrival at 13:50 and departure at 16:30 on Saturday
An arrival at 11:45 and departure at 14:45 on Sunday

Remains to be seen if they will actually use these - although if they are serious about building any position at Heathrow, you don't turn down an offer of slots, irrespective of how good or bad they are.

However, for anyone reckoning this is a $100m windfall for Norwegian (as the other thread has suggested!) or some co-operation with jetBlue, think again. It's neither of these!!


What is meant by grandfather rights?


"grandfather rights" are what you have when you have held an allocation long enough that it is yours to do what you wish with it

The slots allocated to Norwegian are only any use for European flights, they have arrival times too late for intercontinental arrivals apart from the US West coast, but departure times too late for the US West coast.

As to people saying that Norwegian have been given slots worth lots of money, remember that another airline has handed them in. If they had a value the previous airline would have sold them.
 
IrishLessor
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:34 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Well if they thought BA were a tough competitor at LGW, they’re about to find a whole new level of attention from the other big boys!
Unless you are offering a business product to competrt with the legacies, all LHR offers is a slot value if you hold it long enough.


This is the key point. BA and the big US 3 will respond significantly if DY enter the LHR US market..
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
ZuluTime wrote:
You can't lease out or sell slots until you have earned grandfather rights to them, so Norwegian are basically in a position where they have to fly these if they want to do anything.

The slots have been allocated from the pool, and so Norwegian have not had to pay for them. Every year, there's a very small level of natural turnover in LHR slots either through airlines ceasing to trade, some pulling out (e.g. Garuda) and others losing slots as they have not met the performance criteria to earn grandfather rights to them or have failed any efforts to operate the slots punctually (TunisAir). It may be that the slots offered to Norwegian are actually TunisAir's.

They applied for:
Arrival 07:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Arrival 11:45 on Wed
Arrival 12:50 on Mon/Thu/Fri
Departure at 11:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Departure at 20:25 on Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri

They were allocated:
An arrival at 11:00 and departure at 19:00 on Tuesday
An arrival at 13:50 and departure at 16:30 on Saturday
An arrival at 11:45 and departure at 14:45 on Sunday

Remains to be seen if they will actually use these - although if they are serious about building any position at Heathrow, you don't turn down an offer of slots, irrespective of how good or bad they are.

However, for anyone reckoning this is a $100m windfall for Norwegian (as the other thread has suggested!) or some co-operation with jetBlue, think again. It's neither of these!!


What is meant by grandfather rights?


"grandfather rights" are what you have when you have held an allocation long enough that it is yours to do what you wish with it

The slots allocated to Norwegian are only any use for European flights, they have arrival times too late for intercontinental arrivals apart from the US West coast, but departure times too late for the US West coast.

As to people saying that Norwegian have been given slots worth lots of money, remember that another airline has handed them in. If they had a value the previous airline would have sold them.


Thanks for the explanation and the final sentence is a good point. Could Norwegian still choose to use them for long haul ops even if the times aren’t optimal? Or does LHR have a say that it needs to be European flights for x amount of years first?
 
ZuluTime
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:09 pm

You could easily use those slots for US West Coast or indeed something like EZE.
 
AIR MALTA
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:18 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
You can't lease out or sell slots until you have earned grandfather rights to them, so Norwegian are basically in a position where they have to fly these if they want to do anything.

The slots have been allocated from the pool, and so Norwegian have not had to pay for them. Every year, there's a very small level of natural turnover in LHR slots either through airlines ceasing to trade, some pulling out (e.g. Garuda) and others losing slots as they have not met the performance criteria to earn grandfather rights to them or have failed any efforts to operate the slots punctually (TunisAir). It may be that the slots offered to Norwegian are actually TunisAir's.

They applied for:
Arrival 07:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Arrival 11:45 on Wed
Arrival 12:50 on Mon/Thu/Fri
Departure at 11:30 on Tue/Sat/Sun
Departure at 20:25 on Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri

They were allocated:
An arrival at 11:00 and departure at 19:00 on Tuesday
An arrival at 13:50 and departure at 16:30 on Saturday
An arrival at 11:45 and departure at 14:45 on Sunday

Remains to be seen if they will actually use these - although if they are serious about building any position at Heathrow, you don't turn down an offer of slots, irrespective of how good or bad they are.

However, for anyone reckoning this is a $100m windfall for Norwegian (as the other thread has suggested!) or some co-operation with jetBlue, think again. It's neither of these!!

These are the days Tunisair operate their LHR flights in addition to Fridays. But the times are completely different to Tunisair’s.

So Tunisair is down to 2 slots a week. Doesn’t really make sense to keep them. They might as well sell them and relocate to LGW or another London airport.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:34 pm

They could be used on services to South Africa, apart from US west coast.
The latest departure I can see to SFO is 15:30 and arrives at 18:30. This would be an O&D route so the late flight times could work OK.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:09 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
They could be used on services to South Africa, apart from US west coast.
The latest departure I can see to SFO is 15:30 and arrives at 18:30. This would be an O&D route so the late flight times could work OK.

Not like Norwegian would be feeding anyone at either end, anyway (well, possibly B6 at SFO)...

The Tuesday slot isn’t much use for a European flight - not with a Short Haul aircraft sitting about for 8 hours mid afternoon between flights.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.

6 Slots are simply not enough for B6's LON aspirations.

Rather tough to definitively say that, when the public has no idea what "B6's LON aspirations" actually are.... for all you know, they may shoot for multiple LON gateways, with minimal LHR access being completely factored into that initial plan. Or not. Simply don't yet know.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:44 pm

LAX772LR wrote:

Rather tough to definitively say that, when the public has no idea what "B6's LON aspirations" actually are.... for all you know, they may shoot for multiple LON gateways, with minimal LHR access being completely factored into that initial plan. Or not. Simply don't yet know.


Must you always be the voice of reason? ;)
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
santi319
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:18 am

Is every London thread going to be about B6? Can we wait for 2021 when they are closer to the dates? Its getting real old..
 
Arion640
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Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:39 am

LAX772LR wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
andymartin wrote:
Norwegian and Jet Blue recently signed a partnership, JetBlue want to fly to London.
So it all adds up, on this occasion 2 + 2 does really = 4.

6 Slots are simply not enough for B6's LON aspirations.

Rather tough to definitively say that, when the public has no idea what "B6's LON aspirations" actually are.... for all you know, they may shoot for multiple LON gateways, with minimal LHR access being completely factored into that initial plan. Or not. Simply don't yet know.


Not going to happen. Very rare a carrier has split ops (especially to begin with) on long haul routes to a particular city.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:53 am

Arion640 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
6 Slots are simply not enough for B6's LON aspirations.

Rather tough to definitively say that, when the public has no idea what "B6's LON aspirations" actually are.... for all you know, they may shoot for multiple LON gateways, with minimal LHR access being completely factored into that initial plan. Or not. Simply don't yet know.


Not going to happen.

I'll take "Things this person doesn't actually know in any regard or capacity," for $500 please Alex.




Arion640 wrote:
Very rare a carrier has split ops (especially to begin with) on long haul routes to a particular city.

So in other words, you've never heard of these gateways called JFK and EWR.

Or... even more to the point: LHR and LGW, where quite a few carriers split ops for various reasons and strategies.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jumbojet
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:21 am

santi319 wrote:
Is every London thread going to be about B6? Can we wait for 2021 when they are closer to the dates? Its getting real old..


plus 1000
 
Someone83
Topic Author
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Re: Norwegian with LHR slots S20?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:44 am

Heard rumours about MCO-LHR

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Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos