jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:32 pm

AA bumped more pax than all other airlines combined.

I don't want to hear the excuse that AA had to deal with MAX cancellations etc. So did SW, AS and UA.

American Airlines bumped more passengers in 2019 than all other U.S. airlines combined, according to data from the U.S. Department of Transportation.
The carrier bumped more than 3,400 passengers this year in the travel period from July through August. During that same time, Southwest bump 314 passengers, United bumped 15 and Delta did not bump any (the airline has only denied boarding to six passengers this entire year).

AA thinks however that changes to its APP will reduce further bumps

https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlin ... passengers
 
jayunited
Posts: 2339
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:23 pm

This article and your comments do not paint a true and complete picture of what is actually taking place. Airlines like DL and UA are bumping passengers but they are doing it voluntarily instead of involuntarily. Voluntary and involuntary denied boarding are recorded differently by the DOT and for the sake of good press airlines like DL and UA have found a legal loophole. Their programs which solicit passengers on oversold flights to voluntarily place a bid to give up their seat was put into place simply to avoid bad press.

What I would love to see is how many VDB's DL, and UA had because I can promise you that number is much higher than what they would have the public believe. Your statement that DL has only denied boarding to 6 passengers for the entire year and UA 15 passengers for the months given is completely false. When a passengers buys a ticket for a specific flight and they are not accommodated on that specific flight because its oversold that airline has denied boarding to that customer. VDB or IVDB it doesn't matter because the end result is the customer has still been denied boarding.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:25 pm

Something must be off regarding the way DL reports their involuntary DBs. My sister was automatically re-accommodated on a flight DL flight over July 4th weekend without her consent. As she arrived at LGA, she received a notification on her phone that her departure time and flight # had changed to 4 hours later. She assumed the flight had canceled but she checked the monitors and her original flight was scheduled as normal. She went to the gate and was told there was an aircraft down-gauge and ~7 passengers were moved to later flights. She never agreed to a compensation amount and was also told no passengers were willing to give up their seats due to the holiday weekend. Her de-boarding was involuntary so I'm not sure how she and the other passengers would not show up in this report. There was never a conversation of "if you accept this amount, we will move you to a later flight".
 
OB1504
Posts: 3737
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:38 pm

jayunited wrote:
This article and your comments do not paint a true and complete picture of what is actually taking place. Airlines like DL and UA are bumping passengers but they are doing it voluntarily instead of involuntarily. Voluntary and involuntary denied boarding are recorded differently by the DOT and for the sake of good press airlines like DL and UA have found a legal loophole. Their programs which solicit passengers on oversold flights to voluntarily place a bid to give up their seat was put into place simply to avoid bad press.

What I would love to see is how many VDB's DL, and UA had because I can promise you that number is much higher than what they would have the public believe. Your statement that DL has only denied boarding to 6 passengers for the entire year and UA 15 passengers for the months given is completely false. When a passengers buys a ticket for a specific flight and they are not accommodated on that specific flight because its oversold that airline has denied boarding to that customer. VDB or IVDB it doesn't matter because the end result is the customer has still been denied boarding.


The difference is that with a VDB, no one is being denied against their will. Those passengers who accepted VDB found the compensation offered to be worth the delay.

Now why can’t AA get people to bite before bumping them involuntarily?

LHUSA wrote:
Something must be off regarding the way DL reports their involuntary DBs. My sister was automatically re-accommodated on a flight DL flight over July 4th weekend without her consent. As she arrived at LGA, she received a notification on her phone that her departure time and flight # had changed to 4 hours later. She assumed the flight had canceled but she checked the monitors and her original flight was scheduled as normal. She went to the gate and was told there was an aircraft down-gauge and ~7 passengers were moved to later flights. She never agreed to a compensation amount and was also told no passengers were willing to give up their seats due to the holiday weekend. Her de-boarding was involuntary so I'm not sure how she and the other passengers would not show up in this report. There was never a conversation of "if you accept this amount, we will move you to a later flight".


14 CFR §250.6(b) says that if there was an equipment substitution to an aircraft with fewer seats, the passengers bumped aren’t entitled to compensation. The airline didn’t intentionally oversell the flight; there was an operational reason.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:48 pm

OB1504 wrote:

14 CFR §250.6(b) says that if there was an equipment substitution to an aircraft with fewer seats, the passengers bumped aren’t entitled to compensation. The airline didn’t intentionally oversell the flight; there was an operational reason.


Interesting - so there are DL (and other airline passengers) that are denied boarding their original flight, to no fault of their own. It's entirely possible that the down-gauge was DL's fault/responsibility (i.e. the original aircraft went tech) and the passenger can be left without compensations. I know at UA, passengers that are denied boarding due to down-gauge are offered full DB compensation if no volunteers materialize.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3460
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:00 pm

In my experience, AA is far more reluctant to bump up the VDB money than UA or DL. I took an AA VDB in July and it seemed the agent had to make 50 calls before he could raise the amount. He started at $300 and I eventually took it at $850. Not bad for a 2 hour delay but it took forever to get up to $850.
 
klkla
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:05 am

I had a connecting flight on AA from PHX-PVR and they were overbooked by one passenger. They offered a $360 voucher to fly the next day and there were a lot of laughs from the crowd in the gate area. By the time I boarded they had upped to $400. I have no idea how it eventually ended but that amount seemed ridiculously small.
 
77H
Posts: 1520
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Bumping Pax July and August;; AA the worst and DL the best (Video)

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:24 am

“Thinking out loud here”. Could a possible solution to overselling flights be for airlines to add in a clause to their CoC making it compulsory to contact the airline if a reservation will not be used ? Failure to do so would result in some monetary penalty being assessed. A few other industries assess no-show fees.

I bring this up as many airlines use historical data to predict the number of no-shows on a flight. They then sell additional seats above capacity expecting some of those seats to go unused. If airlines made it a contractual obligation to contact the airline if a reservation goes unused there would be no need to predict no shows and sell above capacity.
As they would be able to collect a fee for a no-show, they would no longer be able to oversell as a trade off and the seat would simply go empty or to a non rev.

77H

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