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Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:12 pm
by turk223
Copa has an extensive network through all of the Americas, including sixteen destinations in the Caribbean region (nineteen if you include CARICOM destination cities BZE, GEO, PBM).

I am certain that HAV, PUJ, AUA have high demand, but am curious about the newer markets and those less-popular with Latin Americans generally like NAS, BGI, SXM, MBJ. I read in the Barbados newspaper that BGI is "doing well" and "may increase to a third flight very soon".

One concern could be that some of the flights out of PTY to Caribbean destinations do not have convenient connecting times or may require an overnight layover in Panama City.

I, for one, hope that CM continues to do well!

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:23 pm
by maps4ltd
I was in NAS yesterday, returning from vacation, and watched a Copa E190 push back to PTY. Since Lynden Pindling Airport does announcements over the airport intercom system rather than gate-specific mics, I was able to hear the gate agent reiterate multiple times that the flight was full. Just my anecdotal experience. It was around 10 am; I was on a 2 pm Southwest flight to FLL

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:34 pm
by 2travel2know2
NAS, BGI, SXM, MBJ add KIN, GEO + PBM are all day-time rotations.
Many times those flights don't make immediate connections with other day-time flights or flights arriving mid morning / departing late afternoon.
Such examples are flights between KIN and NAS/CUR/AUA/GEO/PBM, NAS and PAP/MBJ/GEO/SXM.
POS started as a day-time rotation and demand made CM add an evening to POS, morning to PTY flight, which B.T.W., still misses many immediate connections because "early" evening departure from PTY and mid morning PTY arrival.
So one could imagine then CM flying PTY - KIN/BGI/GEO/PBM after 2130h and returning to PTY before 0700h?
Operation times at BGI and KIN would be awful but surely the amount of connections available would be awesome!

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:01 pm
by caribny
COPA flew around 30k passengers into GEO in 2018, 70% of which were from the Caribbean, the vast majority coming from Cuba. Haitians also seem to arrive on COPA, though they aren't direct connections from PAP.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:17 pm
by andrefranca
i flew CM from Brazil to AUA, PUJ, SDQ, NAS, POS and the flights were always full....

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:41 pm
by baje427
The Copa flight to BGI arrives in time to connect with their Miami flight its very convenient. When I flew on them the flight had a decent load but I dont think they were many Barbadians on my flight. It's good to hear the flights are doing well according to the minister however, if flights aren't increased it won't surprise me.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:04 pm
by AMP44
Some people tend to forget that the majority of the passengers that use Copa are not staying in Panama City. Instead, they connect to another flight somewhere else. PTY brands itself as the 'Hub of the Americas' because it serves that purpose. That's pretty much the only reason for a big number of Copa's flights to smaller cities around the continent.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:00 pm
by N292UX
I feel like CM could probably get FDF/GCM/PTP/POP/VRA to work, with some of them being on a less than daily basis.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:19 pm
by usflyer msp
PTY is basically the hub that replaced SJU for many Caribbean based travellers with the added benefit of not needing to enter the US to use it.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:58 pm
by 2travel2know2
N292UX wrote:
I feel like CM could probably get FDF/GCM/PTP/POP/VRA to work, with some of them being on a less than daily basis.
IMHO,
If CM can't get AF to fly FDF/PTP-PTY, if CM wants to venture into the French Caribbean, most likely CM might chose FDF over PTP as CM wouldn't be keen to fly PTY-PTP-FDF-PTY.
CM PTY-GCM very likely is a question of time and aircraft shortage. Let's wait and see.
There's not a big case for PTY-POP if CM already flies PTY-STI, better than PTY-POP would be that PTY-STI increases to daily + twice/thrice weekly.
There's a market for PTY-VRA, as it'd probably free lots of leisure seats a couple of days per week from CM PTY-HAV flights.
Other than those, guess is that sooner or later, BON, UVF or GND could be able to support a PTY flight, (BON specially if it gets a Brazilian/Argentinean Tour Operator to market holidays over-there, like the reason behind PTY-SNU) but chances of PTY-BDA/PLS/STT/ANU/CAY very low.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:52 am
by Brickell305
usflyer msp wrote:
PTY is basically the hub that replaced SJU for many Caribbean based travellers with the added benefit of not needing to enter the US to use it.

No it did not. PTY serves a completely different purpose for most Caribbean based travelers than SJU used to. MIA replaced SJU with Caribbean based travelers.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:55 am
by Brickell305
2travel2know2 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
I feel like CM could probably get FDF/GCM/PTP/POP/VRA to work, with some of them being on a less than daily basis.
IMHO,
If CM can't get AF to fly FDF/PTP-PTY, if CM wants to venture into the French Caribbean, most likely CM might chose FDF over PTP as CM wouldn't be keen to fly PTY-PTP-FDF-PTY.
CM PTY-GCM very likely is a question of time and aircraft shortage. Let's wait and see.
There's not a big case for PTY-POP if CM already flies PTY-STI, better than PTY-POP would be that PTY-STI increases to daily + twice/thrice weekly.
There's a market for PTY-VRA, as it'd probably free lots of leisure seats a couple of days per week from CM PTY-HAV flights.
Other than those, guess is that sooner or later, BON, UVF or GND could be able to support a PTY flight, (BON specially if it gets a Brazilian/Argentinean Tour Operator to market holidays over-there, like the reason behind PTY-SNU) but chances of PTY-BDA/PLS/STT/ANU/CAY very low.

I could see PTY-UVF although I find it unlikely. I def cannot see PTY-GND.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:05 am
by usflyer msp
Brickell305 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
PTY is basically the hub that replaced SJU for many Caribbean based travellers with the added benefit of not needing to enter the US to use it.

No it did not. PTY serves a completely different purpose for most Caribbean based travelers than SJU used to. MIA replaced SJU with Caribbean based travelers.


Yes it did in many respects. If a pax needs to fly SDQ-POS or KIN-BGI odds are they are flying CM via PTY now rather than AA via MIA.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:12 am
by Brickell305
usflyer msp wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
PTY is basically the hub that replaced SJU for many Caribbean based travellers with the added benefit of not needing to enter the US to use it.

No it did not. PTY serves a completely different purpose for most Caribbean based travelers than SJU used to. MIA replaced SJU with Caribbean based travelers.


Yes it did in many respects. If a pax needs to fly SDQ-POS or KIN-BGI odds are they are flying CM via PTY now rather than AA via MIA.

If a passenger needed to fly KIN-BGI , chances are they were never flying via SJU. SJU was around to funnel traffic from Eastern Caribbean islands to the mainland US. I’m not even sure SJU has had flights to KIN, NAS, GCM, etc recently. SJU was never about funneling traffic from Eastern to Western Caribbean or vice versa. Someone flying POS-SDQ is just as likely to go via MIA as they are via PTY once they have a visa. The deciding factor will likely be price.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:27 am
by chepos
Brickell305 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
No it did not. PTY serves a completely different purpose for most Caribbean based travelers than SJU used to. MIA replaced SJU with Caribbean based travelers.


Yes it did in many respects. If a pax needs to fly SDQ-POS or KIN-BGI odds are they are flying CM via PTY now rather than AA via MIA.

If a passenger needed to fly KIN-BGI , chances are they were never flying via SJU. SJU was around to funnel traffic from Eastern Caribbean islands to the mainland US. I’m not even sure SJU has had flights to KIN, NAS, GCM, etc recently. SJU was never about funneling traffic from Eastern to Western Caribbean or vice versa. Someone flying POS-SDQ is just as likely to go via MIA as they are via PTY once they have a visa. The deciding factor will likely be price.


SJU at least on AA Eagle did not have flights to KIN or NAS, GCM for that matter. SJU’s main purpose was to feed traffic between the Eastern Caribbean and the US.

At least in my lifetime I do not recall any Jamaica flights out of SJU. I believe in the 70’s Caribair had flights to KIN enroute to MIA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:36 pm
by 2travel2know2
chepos wrote:
At least in my lifetime I do not recall any Jamaica flights out of SJU. I believe in the 70’s Caribair had flights to KIN enroute to MIA.
When CM still had the B737-200 milk run PTY-SJO-MGA-SAL-GUA and just opened SDQ/KIN/PAP/SJU, it was suggested CM should also fly the PTY-KIN-PAP-SDQ-SJU milk run too. CM top management didn't like the idea at all.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:04 pm
by LightChop2Chop
Traffic also exists on routs such as POS BZE, GEO HAV, SJO SDQ which is what makes PTY powerful as a hub. I suspect the yields are pretty high too

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:55 pm
by SFOA380
My brother has a place on St. Maarten and flies SFO-SXM 2 or 3 times per year and Copa is by far his preferred carrier. Lie flat biz for as little as $700 r/t.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:19 pm
by caribny
usflyer msp wrote:

Yes it did in many respects. If a pax needs to fly SDQ-POS or KIN-BGI odds are they are flying CM via PTY now rather than AA via MIA.



Why will someone fly KIN BGI when BW has 2x weekly nonstops on that route, plus daily services via POS. SDQ, HAV, and PAP to POS, yes.

Plus AA never served KIN out of SJU. That hub was mainly used for travel between the US mainland and the Eastern Caribbean, with some connectivity out of the USVI as well, via SJU.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:24 pm
by caribny
chepos wrote:

At least in my lifetime I do not recall any Jamaica flights out of SJU. I believe in the 70’s Caribair had flights to KIN enroute to MIA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



BWIA used to include SJU on its milk run route from POS to KIN. That route was dropped when AA established its SJU hub. The few people travelling between KIN and SJU will do so via MIA so I dont see this route being re-established. The key role of PTY is that it allows travel between various non CARICOM points in the Caribbean to POS/GEO. CM connects POS with SJU as an example.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:25 pm
by caribny
LightChop2Chop wrote:
Traffic also exists on routs such as POS BZE, GEO HAV, SJO SDQ which is what makes PTY powerful as a hub. I suspect the yields are pretty high too



Yes the largest component of its GEO market is travel originating in HAV.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:42 pm
by SJOtoLIR
Copa Airlines in CARICOM, in terms of weekly frequencies by now:

CM PTY-CUN 47x
CM PTY-HAV 46x
CM PTY-PUJ 32x
CM PTY-SDQ 30x
CM PTY-SJU 13x
CM PTY-POS 12x
CM PTY-AUA 7x
CM PTY-GEO 6x
CM PTY-CUR 6x
CM PTY-MBJ 5x
CM PTY-PAP 4x
CM PTY-STI 4x
CM PTY-KIN 4x
CM PTY-SXM 4x
CM PTY-SNU 4x
CM PTY-NAS 4x
CM PTY-HOG 3x
CM PTY-BGI 2x
CM PTY-BZE 2x

Edited on December 03rd, 2019.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:09 pm
by SJOtoLIR
2travel2know2 wrote:
When CM still had the B737-200 milk run PTY-SJO-MGA-SAL-GUA and just opened SDQ/KIN/PAP/SJU, it was suggested CM should also fly the PTY-KIN-PAP-SDQ-SJU milk run too. CM top management didn't like the idea at all.

If I recall correctly, CM did operate PTY-SDQ-SJU by the early 90s.
The flight stopped at SJU tarmac and returned early back to Panama City the next morning and following the opposite route.

Regards.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:25 pm
by SJOtoLIR
usflyer msp wrote:
If a pax needs to fly SDQ-POS or KIN-BGI odds are they are flying CM via PTY now rather than AA via MIA.

Depends.

Some Caribbean routes on Copa Airlines like PTY-BGI are not available yet on a daily basis.
On the other hand, the usage of MIA or FLL as a tranferring center may involve an extra night if some routes are not perfectly timed.
This is what I meant:

AA BGI 16.44......19.51 MIA 10.51+1....12.41+1 KIN

Barbados - Kingston on AA through MIA means one hotel night in Florida.

Regards.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:27 pm
by SJOtoLIR
SJOtoLIR wrote:
Copa Airlines in CARICOM, in terms of weekly frequencies by now:

CM PTY-CUN 47x
CM PTY-HAV 46x
CM PTY-PUJ 32x
CM PTY-SDQ 30x
CM PTY-SJU 13x
CM PTY-POS 12x
CM PTY-AUA 7x
CM PTY-GEO 6x
CM PTY-CUR 6x
CM PTY-MBJ 5x
CM PTY-PAP 4x
CM PTY-STI 4x
CM PTY-KIN 4x
CM PTY-SXM 4x
CM PTY-SNU 4x
CM PTY-NAS 4x
CM PTY-HOG 3x
CM PTY-BGI 2x
CM PTY-BZE 2x

Edited on December 03rd, 2019.

Panama City - Paramaribo: 2x weekly

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:30 pm
by caribny
I suspect a lot of MBJs traffic comes from feed out of Colombia. LATAM has begun nonstop service from LIM. SXM has seen frequency upgrades and CM was back fairly quickly after hurricane Irma, so that route must be solid.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:49 pm
by SJOtoLIR
Copa Airlines is solidly operating in some Caribbean stations like Havana, Punta Cana and Santo Domingo, deploying up to [5x-6x] daily flights sometimes.
However, some secondary cities in Cuba and Dominican Republic are poorly served, like CM PTY-STI 4x weekly, CM PTY-HOG 3x weekly and CM PTY-SNU 4x weekly.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:37 pm
by 2travel2know2
caribny wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Yes it did in many respects. If a pax needs to fly SDQ-POS or KIN-BGI odds are they are flying CM via PTY now rather than AA via MIA.



Why will someone fly KIN BGI when BW has 2x weekly nonstops on that route, plus daily services via POS. SDQ, HAV, and PAP to POS, yes.
Someone looking to spend a night out and in-bound?
The immediate connection between KIN and BGI (and GEO) doesn't work on CM.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:18 am
by maverick4002
Tangentially related: I am on FlightAware right now and Copa has flights on the way to:

Santiago Chile, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 5 mins apart
Sao Paulo, 3 flights, scheduled to leave PTY within 15 mins of each other
Orlando, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 20 mins apart

Is this normal scheduling for a lot of their routes?

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:28 am
by 2travel2know2
maverick4002 wrote:
Tangentially related: I am on FlightAware right now and Copa has flights on the way to:

Santiago Chile, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 5 mins apart
Sao Paulo, 3 flights, scheduled to leave PTY within 15 mins of each other
Orlando, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 20 mins apart

Is this normal scheduling for a lot of their routes?
Yes, it’s quite normal.
Seems CM already knows which hub banks demand more capacity to selected destinations.
IMHO, one hour apart would make more sense and ease current PTY take-off, landing congestion several times per day.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:49 am
by LightChop2Chop
maverick4002 wrote:
Tangentially related: I am on FlightAware right now and Copa has flights on the way to:

Santiago Chile, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 5 mins apart
Sao Paulo, 3 flights, scheduled to leave PTY within 15 mins of each other
Orlando, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 20 mins apart

Is this normal scheduling for a lot of their routes?


These are known as wingtip to wingtip flights IIRC

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:02 pm
by Caribbean007
2travel2know2 wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Tangentially related: I am on FlightAware right now and Copa has flights on the way to:

Santiago Chile, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 5 mins apart
Sao Paulo, 3 flights, scheduled to leave PTY within 15 mins of each other
Orlando, 2 flights, scheduled to leave PTY 20 mins apart

Is this normal scheduling for a lot of their routes?
Yes, it’s quite normal.
Seems CM already knows which hub banks demand more capacity to selected destinations.
IMHO, one hour apart would make more sense and ease current PTY take-off, landing congestion several times per day.


They has 2 flights arriving almost together to PUJ too.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:27 pm
by A388
SJOtoLIR wrote:
Copa Airlines in CARICOM, in terms of weekly frequencies by now:

CM PTY-CUR 6x

Edited on December 03rd, 2019.


Copa flies to CUR every day since July of this year, not 6 times a week.

A388

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
by Caribbean007
SJOtoLIR wrote:
Copa Airlines in CARICOM, in terms of weekly frequencies by now:

CM PTY-CUN 47x
CM PTY-HAV 46x
CM PTY-PUJ 32x
CM PTY-SDQ 30x
CM PTY-SJU 13x
CM PTY-POS 12x
CM PTY-AUA 7x
CM PTY-GEO 6x
CM PTY-CUR 6x
CM PTY-MBJ 5x
CM PTY-PAP 4x
CM PTY-STI 4x
CM PTY-KIN 4x
CM PTY-SXM 4x
CM PTY-SNU 4x
CM PTY-NAS 4x
CM PTY-HOG 3x
CM PTY-BGI 2x
CM PTY-BZE 2x

Edited on December 03rd, 2019.


The amount of pax transported to SDQ its been decreasing after new routes came into SDQ like MEX-SDQ transporting 51,150 pax this year up to October 2019, Wingo started to fly BOG-SDQ 2 weekly flights and afgter 3 months moved one of their flights from PUJ into SDQ and now they have 3 weekly flights with very good ocupation, Sky Highg Dominicana last week started to fly direct SDQ-MDE 2 weekly flights with ERJ145 with 50 seats. Before all Copa flights was mostly 738 now they have a combination of E90, 737 and 738. The last report of aviation statistic for Sept 2019 shows that Copa transported 50,831 pax less comparing with Sept 2018.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:13 pm
by usxguy
Ive flown intra-Carib/Central America a few times on Copa & all my flights were quite full.

MBJ & PUJ to PTY had a *lot* of US nationals on board.

CUN/PTY was a lot of Colombians & Brazilians, I was the only US citizen both times.

BZE was weirdly a lot of Belizeans & US citizens, not much else.

Re: Copa Airlines and its Caribbean routes

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:07 pm
by incitatus
SFOA380 wrote:
My brother has a place on St. Maarten and flies SFO-SXM 2 or 3 times per year and Copa is by far his preferred carrier. Lie flat biz for as little as $700 r/t.


What...? I just tried to book such a trip and it was $2600. Also Copa introduced lie flats in the MAX9, which is not flying. Not sure about the state of retrofits.

I can get $1500 on US airlines and if I choose right I can get real lie flats, with all aisle access, on most of the way to SXM on US airlines.