dstblj52
Topic Author
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Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:30 pm

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... iasco.html
Wow delta seems to be fighting the unionization movement fairly aggressively, either that or they discovered something was majorly wrong with the uniforms that they didn't believe before.
 
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chepos
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Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:39 am

I had heard of some issues with people having some reactions to the new uniform a few months back, but had not heard anything as of late.

From what was posted, the author makes it seem as if a new uniform is getting developed?


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smi0006
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:49 am

Why is this toxic uniform issue that crops up in the US? AS and AA seemed to have had the issue - never heard of any other carrier? Is the US less strict on testing? Or is it union motivated?
 
jayunited
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:30 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/125715-fa-uniform-fiasco.html
Wow delta seems to be fighting the unionization movement fairly aggressively, either that or they discovered something was majorly wrong with the uniforms that they didn't believe before.


I don't think unionization has anything to do with it at all, it's called DL listening to their FA's and responding to their concerns about the uniform. UA during the wear test for our FA's new uniform had to go back to the drawing board because our FA's who were involved in the wear test has so many concerns UA basically had to start over. I think of the many different uniforms UA had chosen for the FA's I think only 1 or 2 pieces were kept as they were all other pieces especially those pieces for our female FA's had to be scrapped or altered in a major way and the new uniform process is still ongoing for UA's FA's.

I think the problem is these airline have now turned to fashion designers to design their FA uniforms. The problem with this approach is fashion designers have never done the an FA's job and don't understand the types of fabric needed how that fabric needs to move, breath, and function among other things. On of the many problems UA ran into in our wear test was the FA's apron. One would think they would get the apron right, how do you screw up an apron. The fashion designer did screw it up by removed all the pockets from the apron for the sake of fashion which meant there was no place for FA's to put their hand held device they use for buy on board products. I know quite a few FA's here at UA and for those involved in the wear test some of the pieces looked great on paper, they looked great on a mannequin, but just didn't fit the needs of our FA's.
 
NWAESC
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:54 pm

jayunited wrote:
I think the problem is these airline have now turned to fashion designers to design their FA uniforms. The problem with this approach is fashion designers have never done the an FA's job and don't understand the types of fabric needed how that fabric needs to move, breath, and function among other things.


^This^

We've had similar issues with our ramp uniforms. They look great, but don't always meet the needs of the job.
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slider
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:24 pm

Uniforms are a pain in the ass for airline people.

They have to be eminently durable, which instantly rules out certain materials. They have to try to be fashionable, which is impossible given that you have to be able to fit 95% percentile of all body sizes and shapes. It's a lose lose every time any airline designs new uniforms.

And even then, people bitch and moan.
 
durangomac
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:05 pm

NWAESC wrote:
jayunited wrote:
I think the problem is these airline have now turned to fashion designers to design their FA uniforms. The problem with this approach is fashion designers have never done the an FA's job and don't understand the types of fabric needed how that fabric needs to move, breath, and function among other things.


^This^

We've had similar issues with our ramp uniforms. They look great, but don't always meet the needs of the job.


The latest uniform for AS that is being rolled out is designed by fashion designer (Luly Yang) but she was given a ton or requirements. She did a great job and probably made the best looking functional uniform ever in my opinion. I think AS learned from the toxic uniform fiasco they had before.
 
phllax
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:14 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Why is this toxic uniform issue that crops up in the US? AS and AA seemed to have had the issue - never heard of any other carrier? Is the US less strict on testing? Or is it union motivated?


The AA uniform issue was purely a cost issue. AA didn't want to have the fire/flame retardant materials woven into the blend, so they had the uniform provider spray it on after.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:36 pm

I think the issue is more US based. We tend to be more entitled while giving the bare minimum. I would say from personal experience 80% of the complaints are not about comfort, fabric/health concerns but more about personal taste. I’ve never seen an industry quite like the US airline industry. Where I can walk in and say ummm I don’t like the color so let me run to my doctor to get a note (equivalent of a emotional support animal note) to say I shouldn’t wear a color. Then when the company spends money on doing the strictest health test it ur rules out the risk I’m still allowed to decide what I will and will not wear.

Bankrupt or not Zac creates good fashion. He is still the creative director for brooks brothers women which is ready to wear. The uniform looks good on a lot of people. With that being said. Perhaps they should have a portion done “by employees” like southwest.
 
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mbm3
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:59 pm

The complaints have nothing to do with design, comfort or taste but rather adverse physical reactions to the uniforms themselves, most likely due to the chemical treatments of the fabrics being sourced for use in the new designs. The below link gives a synopsis of the issue, along with pictures of the rashes some flight attendants have experienced.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ash-claims
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Detroit313
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:06 pm

Very sad that they gave them toxic uniforms in the first place.
 
alasizon
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:12 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Very sad that they gave them toxic uniforms in the first place.


Whether or not they are toxic remains to actually be seen. Some people just have reactions to certain dyes and fabrics regardless. A lot of people that I've had complain about issues from a uniform were either one of two things:

A) Lack of an undershirt/undergarments
B) Too small of a size purchased for the body size
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ASFlyer
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:17 pm

jayunited wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/125715-fa-uniform-fiasco.html
Wow delta seems to be fighting the unionization movement fairly aggressively, either that or they discovered something was majorly wrong with the uniforms that they didn't believe before.


I don't think unionization has anything to do with it at all, it's called DL listening to their FA's and responding to their concerns about the uniform.


Except that they had stringent requirements for being able to use the black and white uniforms and many people were denied the ability to move to them. Only when AFA announced their intent to organize the DL FA’s did management announce that they were approving all requests to move into the black and white. Coincidence? Probably not. DL management has been fighting this uniform issue tooth and nail until AFA came into the picture.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:20 pm

alasizon wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Very sad that they gave them toxic uniforms in the first place.


Whether or not they are toxic remains to actually be seen. Some people just have reactions to certain dyes and fabrics regardless. A lot of people that I've had complain about issues from a uniform were either one of two things:

A) Lack of an undershirt/undergarments
B) Too small of a size purchased for the body size


Yeah, bad rashes and severe respiratory distress are not caused by either of the two things you mentioned. Having seen, firsthand, the effects of the toxic chemicals they treat the uniform materials with, it’s sad, but not surprising to see someone dismiss the issue completely and chalk it up to poor sizing.
 
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OA412
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:03 pm

Please keep this thread on topic. Whether the uniform's designer is bankrupt is not germane to this discussion and merely serves to derail the thread.
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4engines4lnghll
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:46 pm

slider wrote:
Uniforms are a pain in the ass for airline people.

They have to be eminently durable, which instantly rules out certain materials. They have to try to be fashionable, which is impossible given that you have to be able to fit 95% percentile of all body sizes and shapes. It's a lose lose every time any airline designs new uniforms.

And even then, people bitch and moan.


It’s not bitching and moaning when employees are having a hard time breathing, or their eyes are swollen and blood shot, or their skin breaking out in rashes. I’ve flown with a few people who struggle with just being around the uniform.

The majority of people at DL like the new uniform. Why would you want to be in boring black outfit while the rest of your crew are in their designer uniforms.

The issue is not the designer so much as it is with Lands End who actually made DL and AAs uniforms which are causing the outbreaks.
4engines4lnghll
 
alasizon
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:35 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Very sad that they gave them toxic uniforms in the first place.


Whether or not they are toxic remains to actually be seen. Some people just have reactions to certain dyes and fabrics regardless. A lot of people that I've had complain about issues from a uniform were either one of two things:

A) Lack of an undershirt/undergarments
B) Too small of a size purchased for the body size


Yeah, bad rashes and severe respiratory distress are not caused by either of the two things you mentioned. Having seen, firsthand, the effects of the toxic chemicals they treat the uniform materials with, it’s sad, but not surprising to see someone dismiss the issue completely and chalk it up to poor sizing.


I'm not saying that there were not actual cases at AS & AA, I've seen those real cases first hand as well. However, the majority of the complaints/issues were not caused by the chemicals that TwinHill chose to use, it was just a convenient excuse for people.

4engines4lnghll wrote:
The issue is not the designer so much as it is with Lands End who actually made DL and AAs uniforms which are causing the outbreaks.

Lands End is AA's new provider, the old provider was TwinHill (a division of Mens' Wearhouse)
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:36 pm

All they’re doing is giving people other options in the form of black and gray uniforms. They aren’t abandoning Passport Plum. Regardless, DL will always be under the threat of the unions whatever band-aids they try and slap on. Maybe someday soon the FAs will get on board with a union. They just need to get those cards signed.
 
Lootess
Posts: 174
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:49 pm

alasizon wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Whether or not they are toxic remains to actually be seen. Some people just have reactions to certain dyes and fabrics regardless. A lot of people that I've had complain about issues from a uniform were either one of two things:

A) Lack of an undershirt/undergarments
B) Too small of a size purchased for the body size


Yeah, bad rashes and severe respiratory distress are not caused by either of the two things you mentioned. Having seen, firsthand, the effects of the toxic chemicals they treat the uniform materials with, it’s sad, but not surprising to see someone dismiss the issue completely and chalk it up to poor sizing.


I'm not saying that there were not actual cases at AS & AA, I've seen those real cases first hand as well. However, the majority of the complaints/issues were not caused by the chemicals that TwinHill chose to use, it was just a convenient excuse for people.

4engines4lnghll wrote:
The issue is not the designer so much as it is with Lands End who actually made DL and AAs uniforms which are causing the outbreaks.

Lands End is AA's new provider, the old provider was TwinHill (a division of Mens' Wearhouse)


AS had skin and reaction problems with Twinhill too before the current uniforms.
 
usflyguy
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:16 pm

DL flight attendants, to the tune of over 1,000, are literally sweating out purple. The beds of fingernails have turned purple.

The purpose of the union is to protect the workers. Skywest flight attendants are not switching over to the Barney uniforms due to the multitude of health issues and their union protecting them.

DL was even saying that AFA testing the uniforms for the inflight workgroup was illegal. Come on now... DL is taking their plays from the trump administration.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2401
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Re: Delta changes rules on FA uniforms

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:40 pm

Is there a photo of the black/grey alternative uniforms?

Sounds to me outside of the unions vs DL - the Us needs higher standards for chemical usage in clothing

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