https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/d ... r-booking/

Condor is adding:
2x weekly FRA-YEG
1x weekly MUC-YHZ
3x weekly MUC-SEA

MUC-PUJ/CUN resumes in Summer 2020 as well.

Interesting adds, especially MUC-SEA considering LH is launching the flight as well.

Full Long-Haul 2020 Schedule from Frankfurt:
Anchorage (ANC): every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday
Barbados (BGI): every Friday
Baltimore-Washington (BWI): every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday
Calgary (YYC): every Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday
Cancun (CUN): every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday
NEW: Edmonton (YEG): every Monday and Thursday
Fairbanks (FAI): every Thursday
Halifax (YHZ): every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday
Havana (HAV): every Monday, Thursday and Saturday
Holgiun (HOG): every Wednesday and Sunday
Cape Town (CPT): every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday
Kilimanjaro (JRO): every Wednesday
Las Vegas (LAS): every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday
Mauritius (MRU): every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday
Minneapolis (MSP): every Monday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday
Mombasa (MBA): every Monday, Wednesday and Friday
Montego Bay (MBJ): every Wednesday and Saturday
New Orleans (MSY): every Wednesday and Saturday
Phoenix (PHX): every Monday, Wednesday and Saturday
Pittsburgh (PIT): every Monday and Friday
Portland/Oregan (PDX): every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday
Punta Cana (PUJ): every Tuesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday
San Jose (SJO): every Wednesday and Sunday
San Juan (SJU): every Saturday
Santo Domingo (SDQ): every Wednesday and Sunday
Seattle (SEA): daily
Seychelles (SEZ): every Tuesday and Friday
Tobago (TAB): every Friday
Toronto (YYZ): every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday
Vancouver (YVR): every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday
Varadero (VRA): every Friday
Whitehorse (YXY): every Sunday
Zanzibar (ZNZ): every Monday and Friday

Full Long-Haul 2020 Schedule From Munich:
Cancun (CUN): every Monday
Halifax (YHZ): every Friday
Punta Cana (PUJ): every Wednesday
Seattle (SEA): every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday

I suppose somehow DE survived the Thomas Cook fiasco and they are expanding.

Canada is a major destination for Condor with 21 weekly flights. Pacific Northwest too with 20 weekly services serving either PDX, SEA or YVR.

Condor did Munich-Halifax a couple of years ago. Nice to see it back along with the Frankfurt flights.

Happy to see n/s SEA-MUC service and imagine this will do very well!! Have never flown Condor but looking forward to trying them as they're an AS Mileage Plan partner...which practically guarantees success for them on this new route.

Does this mean CPT is going year-round ?

hiflyeras wrote:

Happy to see n/s SEA-MUC service and imagine this will do very well!! Have never flown Condor but looking forward to trying them as they're an AS Mileage Plan partner...which practically guarantees success for them on this new route.

Lufthansa also announced SEA-MUC for 2020 using A350's.

Is Condor planning to outsource flying to another carrier next summer? FRA-MSY/BWI/PIT all show equipment as being operated by "Condor Partner Airlines" on 767-300s. Seating configs shown don't match up with several charter operators I've looked at.

I'm actually surprised that Condor is going to compete with LH on the SEA-MUC route.

Runway28L wrote:

Is Condor planning to outsource flying to another carrier next summer? FRA-MSY/BWI/PIT all show equipment as being operated by "Condor Partner Airlines" on 767-300s. Seating configs shown don't match up with several charter operators I've looked at.

Not sure about MSY/BWI but isn’t PIT going to be operated with the A332? The aircraft comes from Air Transat so that might be it.

Impressive slate of flights. BWI was lucky enough to get the Air Tanker 332 in DE colors this past summer. The 763 operated by a Condor “partner airline” should be interesting.

Ishrion wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

Is Condor planning to outsource flying to another carrier next summer? FRA-MSY/BWI/PIT all show equipment as being operated by "Condor Partner Airlines" on 767-300s. Seating configs shown don't match up with several charter operators I've looked at.

Not sure about MSY/BWI but isn’t PIT going to be operated with the A332? The aircraft comes from Air Transat so that might be it.

FRA-PIT was originally slated to be operated by a Thomas Cook A332 for next summer. Then it was changed to a B753 as a placeholder for a little bit until being switched to a "Partner Airlines" B763.

FRA-BWI was on a Thomas Cook A332 this past summer and was going to be on one again for 2020 until the TCX shutdown occurred.

Ishrion wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

Is Condor planning to outsource flying to another carrier next summer? FRA-MSY/BWI/PIT all show equipment as being operated by "Condor Partner Airlines" on 767-300s. Seating configs shown don't match up with several charter operators I've looked at.

Not sure about MSY/BWI but isn’t PIT going to be operated with the A332? The aircraft comes from Air Transat so that might be it.

Per MSY, will be watching too. J fares seem to be a bit pricier than last summer. If its a partner airline, hopefully the J hard product will be a bit better than DE metal to justify the higher price.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I'm actually surprised that Condor is going to compete with LH on the SEA-MUC route.

DE has AS' stateside feed to assist it, so they probably see it as worthwhile.

Same reason that FRA-SEA is their only daily yearround TATL route, despite LH having long been on that as well.

I swear it was just within the last 6 months I read that Condor was going to consolidate all its N. Atlantic routes into FRA only. Guess things changed.

I thought DE served Florida, is there more potential for a leisure oriented carrier like DE to serve MSP or PIT instead of TPA, MCO or FLL?

Interesting

wedgetail737 wrote:

hiflyeras wrote:

Happy to see n/s SEA-MUC service and imagine this will do very well!! Have never flown Condor but looking forward to trying them as they're an AS Mileage Plan partner...which practically guarantees success for them on this new route.

Lufthansa also announced SEA-MUC for 2020 using A350's.

I'd forgotten about that...but they'd have already known LH's plans and pulled the trigger anyway. They must be confident there is room for both.

I for one am very happy to see DE growing again. It's a proud carrier, offering solid and reliable service, with a rich heritage. Their crews are unfailingly professional and extremely pleasant. I wish them all the very best.

So so happy to see that dreadful, cheap, meaningless, babyshit-yellow heart gone from their tails! Long live the DE bird emblem!

LAX772LR wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I'm actually surprised that Condor is going to compete with LH on the SEA-MUC route.

DE has AS' stateside feed to assist it, so they probably see it as worthwhile.

Same reason that FRA-SEA is their only daily yearround TATL route, despite LH having long been on that as well.

I would be interested to see what their (LH and DE) will be to MUC. I know that both have a good loads to FRA (of course, that doesn't mean the yields are good). However, I didn't realize DE's SEA-FRA service was daily year-round.

oldannyboy wrote:

I for one am very happy to see DE growing again.

That makes two of us.

So so happy to see that dreadful, cheap, meaningless, babyshit-yellow heart gone from their tails! Long live the DE bird emblem![/quote]

So true. I so wish they'd bring back this bright livery.

upperdeckfan wrote:

I thought DE served Florida, is there more potential for a leisure oriented carrier like DE to serve MSP or PIT instead of TPA, MCO or FLL?

Interesting

They’ve found a good niche in markets that are large enough to attract (often bi-directional) leisure demand but not big enough to lure LH. MCO/MIA/TPA each have at least two LH group airlines.

Can someone shed a little more light on Condor's operations at Anchorage and Fairbanks? What clientele do these flights attract?

Anchorage of course was a stopover for Lufthansa flights to Asia in the past. It's interesting to see one of a few remaining passenger transoceanic routes that survives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmO6wUMAskw

LatinPlane wrote:

Can someone shed a little more light on Condor's operations at Anchorage and Fairbanks? What clientele do these flights attract?

Anchorage of course was a stopover for Lufthansa flights to Asia in the past. It's interesting to see one of a few remaining passenger transoceanic routes that survives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmO6wUMAskw

Alaska and the Yukon (they also fly to YXY) are big European tourist destinations in the summer. They also get a healthy amount of Alaska locals going to Europe in the summer. They’re very well known to Alaska locals.

Eurowings is also inaugurating its own FRA-ANC service in 2020.

wedgetail737 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I'm actually surprised that Condor is going to compete with LH on the SEA-MUC route.

DE has AS' stateside feed to assist it, so they probably see it as worthwhile.

Same reason that FRA-SEA is their only daily yearround TATL route, despite LH having long been on that as well.

I would be interested to see what their (LH and DE) will be to MUC. I know that both have a good loads to FRA (of course, that doesn't mean the yields are good). However, I didn't realize DE's SEA-FRA service was daily year-round.

It's not daily year-round. It's daily in the summer. Right now it's 3x weekly.

Off topic but what are the odds of LH putting a 346 on MUC-SEA/YVR, or expanding to winter service?

leftcoast8 wrote:

Off topic but what are the odds of LH putting a 346 on MUC-SEA/YVR, or expanding to winter service?

Both unlikely IMHO. More A346 are moved to FRA in exchange for A380, and the A346 is generally slowly phased out by LH.
As for the winter service, I doubt that the demand is there. I think we will see the FRA-YVR service only year-round for the time being, potentially being upgauged in the winter season of demand requires it.

yegbey01 wrote:

I suppose somehow DE survived the Thomas Cook fiasco and they are expanding.

Remember they kept flying by getting secured loan from the German government shortly after the collapse of TC.

Terrier79 wrote:

Both unlikely IMHO. More A346 are moved to FRA in exchange for A380, and the A346 is generally slowly phased out by LH.
As for the winter service, I doubt that the demand is there. I think we will see the FRA-YVR service only year-round for the time being, potentially being upgauged in the winter season of demand requires it.

All of Lufthansa's routes to the PNW lack an F cabin.

FRA-SEA: Winter 333, summer 744
MUC-SEA: Seasonal summer 359
FRA-YVR: Year round 744
MUC-YVR: Seasonal summer 359

Given that all 744s, 343s and 359s don't have F, the 777-9X order won't have an F cabin either, and that Sea-Tac cannot handle the A380, is it safe to say that F will not be offered to SEA or YVR by LH for the foreseeable future? (The only alternatives would be a 346/74H/388 on FRA-YVR, or a 346/74H on FRA-SEA.)

SQ789 wrote:

yegbey01 wrote:

I suppose somehow DE survived the Thomas Cook fiasco and they are expanding.

Remember they kept flying by getting secured loan from the German government shortly after the collapse of TC.

It’s way to early to claim they’ve survived the TC demise. Condor is on life support, actively looking for a white knight to rescue them eventually. They will not be able to survive on their own and without a strong partner / buyer, have no bright future ahead.

upperdeckfan wrote:

I thought DE served Florida, is there more potential for a leisure oriented carrier like DE to serve MSP or PIT instead of TPA, MCO or FLL?

Interesting

EW is the one starting MUC-MCO 3x weekly starting in April.

ghYHZ wrote:

Condor did Munich-Halifax a couple of years ago. Nice to see it back along with the Frankfurt flights.

They did indeed. YEG hasn’t had a flight to FRA in a looong time. Nicely offsets the loss of WS to LGW. YEG has 3 transatlantic routes next summer, yet none of them are to London. Can any other airport, besides it and ANC, in North America with multiple transatlantic routes say that?

mcogator wrote:

upperdeckfan wrote:

I thought DE served Florida, is there more potential for a leisure oriented carrier like DE to serve MSP or PIT instead of TPA, MCO or FLL?

Interesting

EW is the one starting MUC-MCO 3x weekly starting in April.

DEs business model is to serve niche markets with no or little competition (there are exceptions of course, e.g the above discussed SEA), and they do not do this too unsuccessful.
So they go for places like ANC, YHZ, MSP, PIT or JRO (just to name a few) where no one else is flying from Germany rather than TPA or MCO where they’d have to compete with Lufthansa or others.

leftcoast8 wrote:

Terrier79 wrote:

Both unlikely IMHO. More A346 are moved to FRA in exchange for A380, and the A346 is generally slowly phased out by LH.
As for the winter service, I doubt that the demand is there. I think we will see the FRA-YVR service only year-round for the time being, potentially being upgauged in the winter season of demand requires it.

All of Lufthansa's routes to the PNW lack an F cabin.

FRA-SEA: Winter 333, summer 744
MUC-SEA: Seasonal summer 359
FRA-YVR: Year round 744
MUC-YVR: Seasonal summer 359

Given that all 744s, 343s and 359s don't have F, the 777-9X order won't have an F cabin either, and that Sea-Tac cannot handle the A380, is it safe to say that F will not be offered to SEA or YVR by LH for the foreseeable future? (The only alternatives would be a 346/74H/388 on FRA-YVR, or a 346/74H on FRA-SEA.)

SEA has had a couple of small doses of their 748's on the SEA-FRA route from time-to-time...other than the occasional sub.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

I for one am very happy to see DE growing again.

That makes two of us.

So so happy to see that dreadful, cheap, meaningless, babyshit-yellow heart gone from their tails! Long live the DE bird emblem!

So true. I so wish they'd bring back this bright livery.

[/quote]

Oh yes man, I'm absolutely with you on this. I can't wait for people in good old Deutschland to realise how tacky and cheap this corporate livery imposed upon them by the failed group is.

leftcoast8 wrote:

Terrier79 wrote:

Both unlikely IMHO. More A346 are moved to FRA in exchange for A380, and the A346 is generally slowly phased out by LH.
As for the winter service, I doubt that the demand is there. I think we will see the FRA-YVR service only year-round for the time being, potentially being upgauged in the winter season of demand requires it.

All of Lufthansa's routes to the PNW lack an F cabin.

FRA-SEA: Winter 333, summer 744
MUC-SEA: Seasonal summer 359
FRA-YVR: Year round 744
MUC-YVR: Seasonal summer 359

Given that all 744s, 343s and 359s don't have F, the 777-9X order won't have an F cabin either, and that Sea-Tac cannot handle the A380, is it safe to say that F will not be offered to SEA or YVR by LH for the foreseeable future? (The only alternatives would be a 346/74H/388 on FRA-YVR, or a 346/74H on FRA-SEA.)

I'm pretty sure LH's MUC-SEA was announced as year round. IDK if that's changed.

Dominion301 wrote:

They did indeed. YEG hasn’t had a flight to FRA in a looong time. Nicely offsets the loss of WS to LGW. YEG has 3 transatlantic routes next summer, yet none of them are to London. Can any other airport, besides it and ANC, in North America with multiple transatlantic routes say that?

Does anyone know if London, England is the top trans-Atlantic destination from Edmonton?

I find it shocking that the yields from Edmonton are insufficient to support non-stop services, in summer.

Dominion301 wrote:

YEG has 3 transatlantic routes next summer, yet none of them are to London. Can any other airport, besides it and ANC, in North America with multiple transatlantic routes say that?

There are a few.

OAK: has a random mix of TER, OSL, and FCO (all summer-only and sub-daily) since DY moved the LGW flight over to SFO and BA pulled out.
FLL: similar position - flights to BCN, CDG, and OSL but not LON since DY moved the LGW flight to MIA and BA pulled out.

I'd also bet there are several airports in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America (all still part of North America) that have service to multiple transatlantic destinations but not London. SJU, PTY, etc.

gte439u wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

They did indeed. YEG hasn’t had a flight to FRA in a looong time. Nicely offsets the loss of WS to LGW. YEG has 3 transatlantic routes next summer, yet none of them are to London. Can any other airport, besides it and ANC, in North America with multiple transatlantic routes say that?

Does anyone know if London, England is the top trans-Atlantic destination from Edmonton?

I find it shocking that the yields from Edmonton are insufficient to support non-stop services, in summer.

The YEG-LON used to be served by several carriers going back to the 90's with both AC and CP in addition to Canada 3000, Air Transat, Thomas Cooke, etc.... The market is definitely under-served, but AC transferred the slot to YVR to support their growth strategy by focusing on more transit passengers from the US.

Both AC and WS would rather add new destinations from their main hubs than serve the YEG-LON market. I don't think it's yields, but both carriers are focusing on expanding to new international markets and YEG doesn't factor into that planning.

I'm surprised BA doesn't try YEG during the summer for something like three weeklies top test the market.

FSDan wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

YEG has 3 transatlantic routes next summer, yet none of them are to London. Can any other airport, besides it and ANC, in North America with multiple transatlantic routes say that?

There are a few.

OAK: has a random mix of TER, OSL, and FCO (all summer-only and sub-daily) since DY moved the LGW flight over to SFO and BA pulled out.
FLL: similar position - flights to BCN, CDG, and OSL but not LON since DY moved the LGW flight to MIA and BA pulled out.

I'd also bet there are several airports in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America (all still part of North America) that have service to multiple transatlantic destinations but not London. SJU, PTY, etc.

The seasonal OAK-TER has been around forever. OAK used to have seasonal service to AMS (Martinair), BRU (Citybird) and ORY/PPT (Corsair) over the years. Even Aerocancun used MD-80's on the OAK-CUN flights during the summers.

gte439u wrote:

Does anyone know if London, England is the top trans-Atlantic destination from Edmonton?

I find it shocking that the yields from Edmonton are insufficient to support non-stop services, in summer.

“November 02, 2015
Air Canada will no long fly non-stop between Edmonton and London, the airline announced on Sunday. The company cited the current economic environment in Alberta as the reason behind the decision. Air Canada reduced the service last year and is now officially canceling it for 2016.”

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/arti ... eoul-Route

Apparently, DE is adding another 767 to its fleet: https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... n/MpMeixK4

jbpdx wrote:

gte439u wrote:

Does anyone know if London, England is the top trans-Atlantic destination from Edmonton?

I find it shocking that the yields from Edmonton are insufficient to support non-stop services, in summer.

“November 02, 2015
Air Canada will no long fly non-stop between Edmonton and London, the airline announced on Sunday. The company cited the current economic environment in Alberta as the reason behind the decision. Air Canada reduced the service last year and is now officially canceling it for 2016.”

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/arti ... eoul-Route

Didn’t AC pull out just as WS announced they we’re jumping in? Now that WS appears to be gone, perhaps AC will look at jumping back in?

Dominion301 wrote:

jbpdx wrote:

gte439u wrote:

Didn’t AC pull out just as WS announced they we’re jumping in? Now that WS appears to be gone, perhaps AC will look at jumping back in?

No. AC pulled out of the YEG-LHR route when the Edmonton Airport Authority announced they would be giving subsidies to Icelandair and KLM to promote Atlantic operations. As AC said, it’s a tough enough market without having to compete against the airport authority too.

At the same time, United pulled out of the YEG-EWR market, which was offering a lot of Atlantic connections for the same reason.

AC and WS have vested interest in promoting their hubs - so they'd like Edmontonians to connect via YYC, YVR, YUL and YYZ. I wonder if this is why all Transatlantic is from other carriers (Icelandair, KLM and now Condor). I think a similar dynamic occurs with US destinations, and would suspect that United and Delta are aligning with AC and WS hubs as well. As AC said "The company cited the current economic environment in Alberta as the reason behind the decision. " - did this impact any of the AC flights to YYC (LHR and FRA)? It seems that AC is prone to cut YEG and increase or maintain service to YYC.