Prost
Topic Author
Posts: 2505
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:19 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... y-culture/

In an urgent internal message on the eve of Thanksgiving, Horizon Air’s head of flight operations warned that a lax safety culture among the airline’s pilots had led to multiple potentially dangerous incidents in recent days. He called for urgent action to prevent a serious air accident.

“We should be very uncomfortable with what has happened over the past two days,” wrote captain John Hornibrook, Horizon Air’s vice president of flight operations, in a Nov. 27 email message to handful of top managers and pilot leaders. “If we sit back and do nothing, we will have an accident. Nothing good can come of the trajectory we are currently on.”


It’s not a hit piece, although the quoted pilot doesn’t seem to be the best spokesperson for the pilots.
 
gmcc
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:12 pm

So if it is an internal meno my question is. Who leaked it to the Seattle Times and what was the motive behind the leaker.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2498
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:28 pm

Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?
 
CantbeGrounded
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:42 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?
 
UA735WL
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:57 pm

CantbeGrounded wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Remember when the ramper took a Q400 for a joyride over Seattle?
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
 
flyoregon
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:04 pm

CantbeGrounded wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Besides the Q400 being stolen last year, the “Q400” he’s referring to in 1988 was a Dash-8-102. The 400 was 12~ years away from entering service. A simple google search from the journalist could have straightened the facts.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:05 pm

CantbeGrounded wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Besides the Q400 being stolen last year, the “Q400” he’s referring to in 1988 was a Dash-8-102. The 400 was 12~ years away from entering service. A simple google search from the journalist could have straightened the facts.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:06 pm

UA735WL wrote:
CantbeGrounded wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Remember when the ramper took a Q400 for a joyride over Seattle?

Keep reading. It's only two paragraphs down.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:08 pm

flyoregon wrote:
CantbeGrounded wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Besides the Q400 being stolen last year, the “Q400” he’s referring to in 1988 was a Dash-8-102. The 400 was 12~ years away from entering service. A simple google search from the journalist could have straightened the facts.

It has been corrected.

The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a De Havilland Canada DHC-8 — a precursor model to the Q400 — crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4180
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:12 pm

UA735WL wrote:
CantbeGrounded wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Remember when the ramper took a Q400 for a joyride over Seattle?

that was a person with a problem. Had nothing to DO with any safety culture. At United? We had guys out running airplanes on High power at all times of the day or night and they taxied the airplanes out there and back. Had any one of them had mental problems? They could have taken one of them off as well. What that guy did? Was all on Him! He scoped it out, and made his move, then got away with it!00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:09 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
UA735WL wrote:
CantbeGrounded wrote:

What other incident(s) are you referencing that were not included in the story?


Remember when the ramper took a Q400 for a joyride over Seattle?

that was a person with a problem. Had nothing to DO with any safety culture. At United? We had guys out running airplanes on High power at all times of the day or night and they taxied the airplanes out there and back. Had any one of them had mental problems? They could have taken one of them off as well. What that guy did? Was all on Him! He scoped it out, and made his move, then got away with it!00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Got away with it? He crashed and died.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
User avatar
southwest1675
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:03 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:11 pm

RIP Sky King.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:22 pm

A crazy person stealing an aircraft has nothing to do with the actions of on duty pilots.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:54 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


The Seattle Times is known for their constant hit peices of local and state businesses. In no way are they an unbiased news source.
 
doug_or
Posts: 3237
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:59 pm

UA735WL wrote:

Remember when the ramper took a Q400 for a joyride over Seattle?


Yep. Not an accident, though.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
TheWorm123
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:29 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:27 pm

An even more hack journalist could’ve put two and two and get 5 by realising that they’re owned by Alaska and what their lax attitude to safety and maintenance in the 1990’s lead to.

Obviously time’s have changed at Alaska since flight 261 however, but a journalist wouldn’t see it the way we would.
752 753 A332
 
KOMAtose
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:31 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
RIP Sky King.

F
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:51 pm

I am assuming when they state "passenger" services, that that is to exclude training accidents. SWM wreck at TWF while training back in the day.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 2135
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:59 pm

So is there any additional information on the 2 recent incidents? Based on the article there was a possible overspeed and a flight that approached or entered the stall envelope?
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:43 pm

Here is what I took away from the article: Certain incidents are 'bookmarked' in one way or another. There is a correlation between these and accidents. Horizon is have too many bookmarks. An airline reduces accidents by reducing bookmarks.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4124
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:36 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
RIP Sky King.

Love sky king. What a legend.
 
User avatar
kanban
Posts: 3995
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:37 pm

Dang, a manager sees an issue developing and moves to head it off and the whole airline is given a sandpapering. yet in another thread the manager did not react and the entire company got sandpapered. oh well 'tis the season of giving.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 1749
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:19 am

It usually seems that the Seattle Times tends to root for Airbus, they always love to hit Boeing. Same with the always critical of Amazon.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:36 am

How are articles like this passed off as news anymore?

Just more clickbait journalism.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1628
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:12 am

How does someone like you post this a) without actually reading the article or b) reading the article and having this as your take away. The Times didn't make up the internal memo. And Dominic Gates is an outstanding aviation reporter. One of few.

BlatantEcho wrote:
How are articles like this passed off as news anymore?

Just more clickbait journalism.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:31 am

n7371f wrote:
How does someone like you post this a) without actually reading the article or b) reading the article and having this as your take away. The Times didn't make up the internal memo. And Dominic Gates is an outstanding aviation reporter. One of few.

BlatantEcho wrote:
How are articles like this passed off as news anymore?

Just more clickbait journalism.

SOP around here. Root for your “team”. Claim bias or shoot the messenger if it something you don’t like or agree with.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3596
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:37 am

An fear-mongering, clickbait article from Gates and the ST. They really like to eat their own in Seattle. We don't need to know every internal e-mail, and contrary to the article's headline and intent, it displays that Horizon does have a strong safety culture to not allow small things turn into big things. This is not journalism. This is a disservice to the public.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4124
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:50 am

MSPNWA wrote:
An fear-mongering, clickbait article from Gates and the ST. They really like to eat their own in Seattle. We don't need to know every internal e-mail, and contrary to the article's headline and intent, it displays that Horizon does have a strong safety culture to not allow small things turn into big things. This is not journalism. This is a disservice to the public.

It has to be really bad for pilot management to send out an email like they. We are due for more accidents with the current experience level of our nationwide regional fleet.
 
catiii
Posts: 3263
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:25 am

kanban wrote:
Dang, a manager sees an issue developing and moves to head it off and the whole airline is given a sandpapering.


Seems like a strong safety culture to me. Kudos to their flight ops leadership.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:45 am

32andBelow wrote:
It has to be really bad for pilot management to send out an email like they.


Actually, not really. It is management's job to be upstream of any issues and the email wasn't sent out to every single pilot, it was sent out to members of the pilot management group and reads as more of a call to action (a bit negative but that is some folks' style)

32andBelow wrote:
We are due for more accidents with the current experience level of our nationwide regional fleet.


Experience level now is higher now than at the time of Colgan 3407 (the most recent crash) and experience levels don't correlate to crash probability.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5612
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:53 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


The Seattle Times is known for their constant hit peices of local and state businesses. In no way are they an unbiased news source.


I am curious, exactly what media source should be reporting on local companies, if not the local media? Don't get me wrong the Times is tough, but on everyone they go after & they were not wrong in their statement about a serious accident at QX.

Calling what sky king did an accident, is clearly a false narrative. The aircraft was stolen (carjacked), he had no intent of ever stopping & was suicidal, when he finally took his own life on a dot of land, in Puget Sound. It was found later, this was premeditated & by no means, an accident.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:24 am

RWA380 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


The Seattle Times is known for their constant hit peices of local and state businesses. In no way are they an unbiased news source.


I am curious, exactly what media source should be reporting on local companies, if not the local media? Don't get me wrong the Times is tough, but on everyone they go after & they were not wrong in their statement about a serious accident at QX.

Calling what sky king did an accident, is clearly a false narrative. The aircraft was stolen (carjacked), he had no intent of ever stopping & was suicidal, when he finally took his own life on a dot of land, in Puget Sound. It was found later, this was premeditated & by no means, an accident.


My point was that even a broken clock is right twice a day. It's fine to be critical but the Seattle Times refuses to also report the good things that these companies do. They lose a lot of credibility when they just fire off one hit piece after another.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8105
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:37 am

alasizon wrote:
a

32andBelow wrote:
We are due for more accidents with the current experience level of our nationwide regional fleet.


Experience level now is higher now than at the time of Colgan 3407 (the most recent crash) and experience levels don't correlate to crash probability.


Both pilots on Colgan 3407 had more than 1500 hours. That fatal accident was due to fatigue resulting in a loss of situational awareness. Has the regional industry really changed that much in the past decade?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5612
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:06 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

The Seattle Times is known for their constant hit peices of local and state businesses. In no way are they an unbiased news source.


I am curious, exactly what media source should be reporting on local companies, if not the local media? Don't get me wrong the Times is tough, but on everyone they go after & they were not wrong in their statement about a serious accident at QX.

Calling what sky king did an accident, is clearly a false narrative. The aircraft was stolen (carjacked), he had no intent of ever stopping & was suicidal, when he finally took his own life on a dot of land, in Puget Sound. It was found later, this was premeditated & by no means, an accident.


My point was that even a broken clock is right twice a day. It's fine to be critical but the Seattle Times refuses to also report the good things that these companies do. They lose a lot of credibility when they just fire off one hit piece after another.


I get what you're saying, the Seattle times has a reputation for these "hit pieces", I am not a subscriber, so I can't speak to their day to day stories, but their pieces on Boeing & Amazon both have riled many a person & entity.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
737MAX7
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:07 am

southwest1675 wrote:
RIP Sky King.

May he RIP :(
 
F27500
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:22 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
RIP Sky King.

May he RIP :(


Who was Sky King?
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:53 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
The Seattle Times is known for their constant hit peices of local and state businesses. In no way are they an unbiased news source.


I would be curious to know the author's personal thoughts on writing the article.

Mr. Gates is full-time aerospace reporter, and from what I have seen, is a fellow aviation fan. I doubt he personally wants to cast doubts on any manufacturer or airline, but his boss has some say in what he writes.

I'd hardly compare the tone of this article to any of the really controversial articles on Washington businesses.

Anyways, my takeaway was: Good. They watch for incidents internally, saw a spike in them, and were proactively in starting a discussion about it. Some pilots responded, but not simply with knee-jerk reactions. Instead they were valid points of discussion like noting that wind gusts can cause momentary overspeeds that are accounted for in the design speeds. That sort of discussion leads to clarifications about operating and reporting expectations. I hope this continues.

RyanairGuru wrote:
Both pilots on Colgan 3407 had more than 1500 hours. That fatal accident was due to fatigue resulting in a loss of situational awareness. Has the regional industry really changed that much in the past decade?


How much was there to compare between Horizon and Colgan in the first place? As I understand it, for a variety of reasons Horizon and Alaska have long had a different mainline/regional relationship than other arrangements like what Colgan and Continental had. A result of that was higher pilot pay, better retention (although I've also heard more difficulty moving to mainline), and I like to think also, a more intentionally airmanship oriented culture.
 
User avatar
southwest1675
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:03 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:31 am

KOMAtose wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
RIP Sky King.

F


Much respect
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Prost
Topic Author
Posts: 2505
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:11 am

The Horizon pilot’s Union has a rebuttal.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... relations/
The union representing pilots at Horizon Air, the regional carrier for Alaska Airlines, sent a note to its members Thursday alleging that the airline’s management is undermining long-standing industry safety programs by focusing on penalizing individuals.

The note includes a link to a letter the union wrote this summer to the board of directors of Alaska Air Group and CEO Brad Tilden drawing attention to “the deteriorated state of Horizon Air’s safety programs.”
 
speedbird52
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:21 am

32andBelow wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
RIP Sky King.

Love sky king. What a legend.

I always feel bad when I read about suicide victims, but reading about him and listening to his radio transmissions genuinely made me feel a personal sense of sadness. As if we had all lost someone. He was about to end his own life, and he still had such a wonderful sense of humor. It really is a sad sad thing when someones life falls apart to the point that they feel they need to end it. Worse is the fact that none of his family or friends had any idea that anything was wrong. As a society, we need to do more to send a message that it is okay for us to talk to people we love when we have burdens that are becoming too difficult to bear. Currently, I feel like the topic is too uncomfortable for most people to want to approach. RIP.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3578
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:55 am

RWA380 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Yah, this article lost journalistic credibility with this blurb:

"The only serious accident in the airline’s passenger service was in 1988, when a Q400 crash-landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport after an engine fire. Four passengers suffered serious injuries."

Really?


The Seattle Times is known for their constant hit peices of local and state businesses. In no way are they an unbiased news source.


I am curious, exactly what media source should be reporting on local companies, if not the local media? Don't get me wrong the Times is tough, but on everyone they go after & they were not wrong in their statement about a serious accident at QX.


Haven't you heard? Everything piece of journalism that's critical of (insert revered aviation organization here) is a hit job/click-bait/sensationalism on a.net. Doesn't matter if the piece has quoted sources or documentation backing up the story.

RWA380 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

I am curious, exactly what media source should be reporting on local companies, if not the local media? Don't get me wrong the Times is tough, but on everyone they go after & they were not wrong in their statement about a serious accident at QX.

Calling what sky king did an accident, is clearly a false narrative. The aircraft was stolen (carjacked), he had no intent of ever stopping & was suicidal, when he finally took his own life on a dot of land, in Puget Sound. It was found later, this was premeditated & by no means, an accident.


My point was that even a broken clock is right twice a day. It's fine to be critical but the Seattle Times refuses to also report the good things that these companies do. They lose a lot of credibility when they just fire off one hit piece after another.


I get what you're saying, the Seattle times has a reputation for these "hit pieces", I am not a subscriber, so I can't speak to their day to day stories, but their pieces on Boeing & Amazon both have riled many a person & entity.


I think it's called "investigative journalism." If you're in that line of work and nobody ever gets upset at you, you're probably not very good at it. Amazon and Boeing are both enormous local corporations that have an enormous impact on the Puget Sound region--people want to know what they're up to, good or bad. They deserve every bit of scrutiny that they get from the press.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4264
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:17 am

I see someone who cares enough to send a message to it's pilots to step it up a bit. If anything, he is stepping it up a bit. I wouldn't hesitate to hop on a Horizon flight anytime.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6461
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Seattle Times article on Safety culture at Horizon

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:43 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
An fear-mongering, clickbait article from Gates and the ST. They really like to eat their own in Seattle. We don't need to know every internal e-mail, and contrary to the article's headline and intent, it displays that Horizon does have a strong safety culture to not allow small things turn into big things. This is not journalism. This is a disservice to the public.


One of the goals of the Seattle Times is to sell papers (and online subscriptions). Relevance to the local population is a key attribute of that, so yes, there's going to be a prevalence of Boeing/Amazon/Microsoft pieces that you're not going to find in the Baltimore Sun. They published an internal memo, not unattributed speculation.

Do you want a free press, or 1980s Pravda, just publishing materials that toe the Party line?

I challenge you to describe how this is a disservice to the public.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos