Galwayman
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:22 pm

I’m surprised so FEW people here have commented on such an old person being responsible for safety onboard an aircraft. Let her work in a non safety position if she wants to keep working .
 
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dennypayne
Posts: 267
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
dennypayne wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
I would imagine it wasn’t about the cost, but rather the convenience of already having the milk with her instead of having to leave the hotel to go purchase it.

Of course, to which I say, wow, if only hotels offered a service where you could call someone from your room and have them bring food or beverages to you? I mean, that’d REALLY be a game-changer...


Sure, at quadruple the typical price.


Well, what's the point of making more money than 99,999% of people on the planet if it's to live on the cheap ?

Furthermore, by stealing the milk she was engendering that salary, doesn't make sense. I've known people stealing on the job, not always smart, but they were near minimum wage, at least.


There's a difference between living on the cheap and getting ripped off, and hotel room service usually falls on the latter for me.

But like I said, I really don't think this is about stealing the milk. I doubt the airline really cares much about an FA taking milk that was to be thrown out anyway. I think it's much more likely that this is about the customs holdups that likely stemmed from a bit of entitlement mentality that she doesn't have to follow those rules. If, like some have said on here, it caused the airline to be fined and/or flights to be delayed, then I fully expect them to come down hard on that. If they can also tack on a theft charge, then that just makes the termination decision easier (it's hard to fire people these days).
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Braybuddy
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:36 pm

scbriml wrote:
I was made redundant at 58 and decided to retire there and then. Best decision I ever made. Once you reach minimum retirement age (55 in UK), you're effectively only working for the difference between your salary and pension anyway.

Indeed, and you beat me by a year! I took an early retirement package at 59 and it was the best thing I've ever done. Like a lot of people, I didn't know if I could handle all that free time, but it isn't difficult if you have two eyes, two hands and two legs! When I left I said I never again wanted someone looking over my shoulder telling me what to do. There are a million and one things to do if you put your mind to it. And they don't have to cost anything. You can learn a new language, pick a cuisine you like and launch yourself into that. You can do charity work, gardening, painting, learn to play an instrument, the list goes on and on and on.

The world is your oyster -- if you want it to be.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1902
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:00 pm

Aesma wrote:
dennypayne wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
I would imagine it wasn’t about the cost, but rather the convenience of already having the milk with her instead of having to leave the hotel to go purchase it.
Of course, to which I say, wow, if only hotels offered a service where you could call someone from your room and have them bring food or beverages to you? I mean, that’d REALLY be a game-changer...

Sure, at quadruple the typical price.

Well, what's the point of making more money than 99,999% of people on the planet if it's to live on the cheap ?

Let me see if I've got this right; she works in an industry where the customer pays whatever the airline demands for food & drink, because they have got you captive for hours on end in a metal tube at 40,000feet. And now you are complaining about hotel prices being a rip-off? :banghead:

Moreover, if this was a one-off, I could understand how she might be caught out upon arrival at SYD, suddenly dumped in a strange land, with a strange language ( :lol: ), dollars that aren't real US$, and not a Walmart in sight. And only half a dozen crew colleagues to offer moral support.
But as this is a regular haul for her, surely she knows the drill, and finds a grocery store on the airport (who will also rip everyone off with high prices), or whilst en route to the hotel persuades the taxi driver to take a detour via the nearest branch of Woolworths.

And whilst we are all feeling sorry for this $250k earning F/A, what about the poor passengers who are visiting Oz for the first time. They are in exactly the same position as regards their opportunities to obtain cheap milk? What makes F/As entitled to special treatment?

I'm not keen on paying hotel prices either, and I'm not earning anywhere near her wages. Any chance she could help a poor peasant out by sliding a couple of cartons of milk in my direction at the end of the flight? Strangely, I'm not holding my breath....
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:03 am

Galwayman wrote:
I’m surprised so FEW people here have commented on such an old person being responsible for safety onboard an aircraft. Let her work in a non safety position if she wants to keep working .

She has to pass recurrent trading EVERY year to keep flying. Stop with she can’t do her job crap.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:15 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
I didn’t speculate on anything. The RLA covers only unionized workers, and the FSLA has an exemption for flight crews. I’ve speculated on nothing. Prove me wrong.



You did not understand what I said. See below. . .


ChrisKen wrote:
But the brakes can be released, the wheels can be moving but the engines don't have to be running.

Flight Pay starts when the Brakes are released on stand. The wheels don't have to be moving, the engines don't have to be started. (The point 2nd poster was trying to make)
Strangely that point of release is also known as the Off Block Time, which is reported/recorded by the aircraft systems and logged by the flight crew therefore everyone knows what that time was/is.


Correct. That is the point I was making. This, among some few others, is why Block Times are carefully documented. And the standard is indeed Brakes On/Off.



Phoenix757767 wrote:
She has to pass recurrent trading EVERY year to keep flying. Stop with she can’t do her job crap.


Her complaint documents that this is not the case. She routinely pestered other employees into doing things for her. She cannot do this job.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:42 am

You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.
 
silentbob
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Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:57 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I’m surprised so FEW people here have commented on such an old person being responsible for safety onboard an aircraft. Let her work in a non safety position if she wants to keep working .

She has to pass recurrent trading EVERY year to keep flying. Stop with she can’t do her job crap.

I can't say what happens at Delta, but I've seen people pass when they should have failed. I believe they have all retired now, as this was a number of years ago.
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 30
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:12 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.


Oh what a load of BS. What exactly is "recurrent" training consist of. Opening a door and pointing towards the exit? I can guarantee you from the pictures I have seen of her, there is no way in hell she could ever drag my 6'04" 275 former division1 football players ass out of an airplane, never gonna happen. The flight attendant nation has to make up their collective minds. I've seen all the "I'm here to save your ass, not serve it" shirts. Again, what a load of BS. I fly frequently, like bi-weekly and the majority of flight attendants I see leave me saying under my breath "honey, i'm sure they make that dress in an XL" The flight attendant nation has to decide if they're here to save or serve. If you are there to "save" then you need to be dressed accordingly. No high heels or dresses, wear cut resistant plus either steel or composite toed shoes. You are trying to evacuate a plane. those are the safest shoes to do so. You need fit flight attendants that are capable of a dead man drag of at least 300 pounds. No dresses, flame resistant pants and either long sleeve or short sleeve shirts. hair must be placed in a bun so as to not interfere with your sight or be subject to flame or getting caught.
Make the decision flight attendant nation, what are you there for. To save my ass or serve me a beverage, c
.
 
jersey777
Posts: 22
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:47 am

CaptHadley wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.


Oh what a load of BS. What exactly is "recurrent" training consist of. Opening a door and pointing towards the exit? I can guarantee you from the pictures I have seen of her, there is no way in hell she could ever drag my 6'04" 275 former division1 football players ass out of an airplane, never gonna happen. The flight attendant nation has to make up their collective minds. I've seen all the "I'm here to save your ass, not serve it" shirts. Again, what a load of BS. I fly frequently, like bi-weekly and the majority of flight attendants I see leave me saying under my breath "honey, i'm sure they make that dress in an XL" The flight attendant nation has to decide if they're here to save or serve. If you are there to "save" then you need to be dressed accordingly. No high heels or dresses, wear cut resistant plus either steel or composite toed shoes. You are trying to evacuate a plane. those are the safest shoes to do so. You need fit flight attendants that are capable of a dead man drag of at least 300 pounds. No dresses, flame resistant pants and either long sleeve or short sleeve shirts. hair must be placed in a bun so as to not interfere with your sight or be subject to flame or getting caught.
Make the decision flight attendant nation, what are you there for. To save my ass or serve me a beverage, c
.



My nelly self is here to serve a big butch tough guy like you❤️
 
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Jamake1
Posts: 987
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:45 pm

I think this flight attendant is in denial about her own behavior. I’ve seen and flown with similar types: Alone and single and not much going on in their personal life...so they fly a ridiculous amount of hours and hoard the money. In the EU cabin crew are restricted to flying 900 hours annually. In the US, the FAA has no work limit. There are colleagues at my airline who fly 225 hours per month flying west coast turns 6 days a week. The industry average is 80-100 hours per month. Allowing flight attendants to fly well beyond that undermines the safety component of the profession. The motor slows down over time and the job is one that requires constant situational awareness. I do think the FAA should mandate an age limit for flight attendants. Having said that, many career flight attendants of a certain age range were especially impacted during the airline bankruptcies of the early and mid-2000’s (as were the pilots). Pensions were gutted. That age demographic hasn’t had as much time to make up for their pension loss. Factoring that into account, I believe that an age 70 retirement limit is a reasonable target for the FAA to mandate.
Come fly the sun.
 
F27500
Posts: 729
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:57 pm

jersey777 wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.


Make the decision flight attendant nation, what are you there for. To save my ass or serve me a beverage, c
.



My nelly self is here to serve a big butch tough guy like you❤️



THE best reply so far in this entire topic .. LMGAO !! ;) ;)
 
catiii
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:13 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:
Prost wrote:
That’d be great, then give us a defined pension benefit.


Why? The pilots don't have a defined benefit plan anymore.


Yes they do, its called loss of license insurance. Pilot fails a medical, they get that benefit. Want FAs to not work if they are precieved too old? Give them the same then let the doctors handle it.


It's not a defined pension benefit, which is what the OP was posting. It's insurance.
 
ewt340
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:21 pm

Obviously they wanted to get rid of her asap. She earn too much money. It's not profitable, especially if she works on domestic routes. All the profits goes to her for every single flights.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:36 pm

ABEguy wrote:
questions wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Top pay is $354/ hour, so closer to $350,000 plus 14% profit sharing plus 16% company401 k plus matching of pilot 401k contributions. Pay plus the company 401k puts pay over $410,000 withou5 overtime green slips. Outliers, but they had $900,000 A350 captains last year. Nr. 1 F/A makes $250,000; very possibly not the only one.


IRS has a cap on combined employer/employee contributions to 401k, i.e., it’s not unlimited.


At AA, when that limit is reached they just add the 16% into your paycheck for the remainder of the year. I’m sure Delta does the same.


Depending on age the limits go up quickly. Over 50 and the limit is nearly doubled for an individual. Employer matches are are quite high. I believe they can push a total contribution for an individual near 80k\year.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:02 pm

cessna2 wrote:
This FA would work SYD back to back. Fly in at 6am from SYD and sign back in that night. Since the layover was over 28hrs it counted as her rest for the FAA 24/7 rule. She was easily working over 200hrs a month.


Can you bid to fly like that as an F/A?
 
n6238p
Posts: 428
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:35 am

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:46 pm

I’m flight crew but not a flight attendant. From my seven years in the 121 world, my experience has been the longer you’re with an airline, the easier the checkride gets. In this case, this FA has practiced the same rote memorization of policy and procedures for decades, it’s almost impossible for them fail. The recurrent tests are the same year after year that’s why someone who has been on property for 30-40 years gets the same test as someone who has been around for one year. Sadly, recurrent is a box checking event to satisfy the feds and does little in my eyes to actually evaluate competency on an airplane.

With that being said, I’ve read in other places that this story actually started well over a year ago and by now it should have been or is close to a resolution. Anyone with info can corroborate that?
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
questions
Posts: 2137
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:47 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.


Oh what a load of BS. What exactly is "recurrent" training consist of. Opening a door and pointing towards the exit? I can guarantee you from the pictures I have seen of her, there is no way in hell she could ever drag my 6'04" 275 former division1 football players ass out of an airplane, never gonna happen. The flight attendant nation has to make up their collective minds. I've seen all the "I'm here to save your ass, not serve it" shirts. Again, what a load of BS. I fly frequently, like bi-weekly and the majority of flight attendants I see leave me saying under my breath "honey, i'm sure they make that dress in an XL" The flight attendant nation has to decide if they're here to save or serve. If you are there to "save" then you need to be dressed accordingly. No high heels or dresses, wear cut resistant plus either steel or composite toed shoes. You are trying to evacuate a plane. those are the safest shoes to do so. You need fit flight attendants that are capable of a dead man drag of at least 300 pounds. No dresses, flame resistant pants and either long sleeve or short sleeve shirts. hair must be placed in a bun so as to not interfere with your sight or be subject to flame or getting caught.
Make the decision flight attendant nation, what are you there for. To save my ass or serve me a beverage, c
.


This raises a good question. What exactly are the “to save” expectations airlines have for FA’s? I would imagine those expectations are inherent in the training and respective scoring. Is dragging passengers out of the aircraft included in the safety training and expectations? No doubt getting 250 frightened, disoriented passengers to quickly evacuate an aircraft during an emergency is no easy task.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 533
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Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:12 am

Theoretically the FA would have able bodied assistants to help drag incapacitated people away. The FA is there to direct the evacuation, not save everyone through force of strength. The one thing I can think of is the deployment of life rafts that need to be dragged to the doors. She claimed to be 85 lbs. Could a 85lbs 79 year old do that?
 
tofur
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:47 am

CaptHadley wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.


Oh what a load of BS. What exactly is "recurrent" training consist of. Opening a door and pointing towards the exit? I can guarantee you from the pictures I have seen of her, there is no way in hell she could ever drag my 6'04" 275 former division1 football players ass out of an airplane, never gonna happen. The flight attendant nation has to make up their collective minds. I've seen all the "I'm here to save your ass, not serve it" shirts. Again, what a load of BS. I fly frequently, like bi-weekly and the majority of flight attendants I see leave me saying under my breath "honey, i'm sure they make that dress in an XL" The flight attendant nation has to decide if they're here to save or serve. If you are there to "save" then you need to be dressed accordingly. No high heels or dresses, wear cut resistant plus either steel or composite toed shoes. You are trying to evacuate a plane. those are the safest shoes to do so. You need fit flight attendants that are capable of a dead man drag of at least 300 pounds. No dresses, flame resistant pants and either long sleeve or short sleeve shirts. hair must be placed in a bun so as to not interfere with your sight or be subject to flame or getting caught.
Make the decision flight attendant nation, what are you there for. To save my ass or serve me a beverage, c
.


CaptHadley, I agree with some of your points. I have been flying as cabin crew for 38 years. I am 58 years old, in good shape, height and weight proportionate.

Recurrent training consists of much more than opening a door and pointing towards an exit. The 737 door exits are very heavy to open and have no power assist, like all other modern aircraft. You must also be able to open an overwing exit window that may be over 60 lbs on a 763. Not to mention lifting a very heavy life raft from an overhead compartment on the 7M8. We also practice lifting incapacitated passengers. We would certainly do our best to rescue any incapacitated passenger regardless of size.

I agree wholeheartedly with your t-shirt analogy. It is totally unacceptable and demeaning of our profession. It makes me cringe when I hear flight crews say something to that effect during the safety demonstration, thankfully that happens infrequently at my airline.

As for size of flight crew, perhaps those hefty flight attendants may be best suited to rescue "football size" passengers. A 120lbs crew member would definitely have trouble moving someone of that weight.

I agree with your grooming standards. At my airline we have grooming and service checks frequently. Crew members are required to have their hair, footwear and uniforms to company specifications. After boarding, female crew members change to low rise heels for comfort during the flight and in case of evacuation. We are required to wear full uniform for each take off and landing for recognition in the cabin and for our own safety. Although I am not sure if wearing a skirt or dress would hamper an evacuation.

So, yes our primary duty is safety, but service encompasses the greatest part passengers see. Passengers will not always see us ensuring safety equipment is functioning properly, applying first aid or diffusing incidents in the cabin, all of which are important. Safety is our most important priority, but our message to passengers is that they are first and foremost in our minds and hopefully they will realize it's safety first.

To surmise, safety and service are equally important, but safety wins when push comes to shove. We appreciate your views from an outsiders perspective and hope you appreciate ours.
 
kiowa
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:41 am

tofur wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
You clearly don’t get it. As long as she passes recurrent she is qualified. Delta could ask her at anytime to redo her training if there were complaints about her work. You don’t work with her nor what has transpired.


Oh what a load of BS. What exactly is "recurrent" training consist of. Opening a door and pointing towards the exit? I can guarantee you from the pictures I have seen of her, there is no way in hell she could ever drag my 6'04" 275 former division1 football players ass out of an airplane, never gonna happen. The flight attendant nation has to make up their collective minds. I've seen all the "I'm here to save your ass, not serve it" shirts. Again, what a load of BS. I fly frequently, like bi-weekly and the majority of flight attendants I see leave me saying under my breath "honey, i'm sure they make that dress in an XL" The flight attendant nation has to decide if they're here to save or serve. If you are there to "save" then you need to be dressed accordingly. No high heels or dresses, wear cut resistant plus either steel or composite toed shoes. You are trying to evacuate a plane. those are the safest shoes to do so. You need fit flight attendants that are capable of a dead man drag of at least 300 pounds. No dresses, flame resistant pants and either long sleeve or short sleeve shirts. hair must be placed in a bun so as to not interfere with your sight or be subject to flame or getting caught.
Make the decision flight attendant nation, what are you there for. To save my ass or serve me a beverage, c
.


CaptHadley, I agree with some of your points. I have been flying as cabin crew for 38 years. I am 58 years old, in good shape, height and weight proportionate.

Recurrent training consists of much more than opening a door and pointing towards an exit. The 737 door exits are very heavy to open and have no power assist, like all other modern aircraft. You must also be able to open an overwing exit window that may be over 60 lbs on a 763. Not to mention lifting a very heavy life raft from an overhead compartment on the 7M8. We also practice lifting incapacitated passengers. We would certainly do our best to rescue any incapacitated passenger regardless of size.

I agree wholeheartedly with your t-shirt analogy. It is totally unacceptable and demeaning of our profession. It makes me cringe when I hear flight crews say something to that effect during the safety demonstration, thankfully that happens infrequently at my airline.

As for size of flight crew, perhaps those hefty flight attendants may be best suited to rescue "football size" passengers. A 120lbs crew member would definitely have trouble moving someone of that weight.

I agree with your grooming standards. At my airline we have grooming and service checks frequently. Crew members are required to have their hair, footwear and uniforms to company specifications. After boarding, female crew members change to low rise heels for comfort during the flight and in case of evacuation. We are required to wear full uniform for each take off and landing for recognition in the cabin and for our own safety. Although I am not sure if wearing a skirt or dress would hamper an evacuation.

So, yes our primary duty is safety, but service encompasses the greatest part passengers see. Passengers will not always see us ensuring safety equipment is functioning properly, applying first aid or diffusing incidents in the cabin, all of which are important. Safety is our most important priority, but our message to passengers is that they are first and foremost in our minds and hopefully they will realize it's safety first.

To surmise, safety and service are equally important, but safety wins when push comes to shove. We appreciate your views from an outsiders perspective and hope you appreciate ours.



Well spoken Tofur!
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:14 am

n6238p wrote:
I’m flight crew but not a flight attendant. From my seven years in the 121 world, my experience has been the longer you’re with an airline, the easier the checkride gets. In this case, this FA has practiced the same rote memorization of policy and procedures for decades, it’s almost impossible for them fail. The recurrent tests are the same year after year that’s why someone who has been on property for 30-40 years gets the same test as someone who has been around for one year. Sadly, recurrent is a box checking event to satisfy the feds and does little in my eyes to actually evaluate competency on an airplane.

With that being said, I’ve read in other places that this story actually started well over a year ago and by now it should have been or is close to a resolution. Anyone with info can corroborate that?


I was going to post something similar. regarding recurring training. valid points. regarding this happening over a year ago. It takes that long. usually when it hits the paper is because they are trying to get the public on their side so that the airline will settle, usually, the airline settles in order not to lose public favor. Since it's been several days. I'm not sure it worked.
 
747cllipper747
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:30 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:46 pm

747cllipper747 wrote:
No one here knows what happened. It’s all speculation and as we all know there is her side, Deltas side and the rest of the story! Bottom line if you steal there is no place for you!!! Done!! Toast!!
 
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DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2425
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Senior FA sues DL for wrongful termination

Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:57 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
Ok. Your evidence for her creation of this non-sense is limited to your prejudices on millenials. Who are not part of this issue.


Actually, given the number of employers who are reticent to hire Millennials, it is something to look at.


Do you have something less anecdotal?

Aptivaboy wrote:
And, I never said that she was responsible for, "her creation of this non-sense..." I honestly can't understand what you're trying to say, and I showed your post to an English teacher friend. In all honesty and trying to remain non-confrontational, your statement doesn't make contextual sense.


No, you did not say that. I did. It was an accurate summation of the events as listed.


Which part was difficult to understand? There were two sentence fragments in that reply, one even only a single word. But that would not have caused anything said to rise to the level of true difficulty WRT parsing out a meaning/stance.

Also, a note. If you are trying to reply to someone here, it is best to leave their username in the quote. This will trigger a note at the top of the page. I only saw your comment by shear happenstance, FWIW.

tofur wrote:
CaptHadley, I agree with some of your points. I have been flying as cabin crew for 38 years. I am 58 years old, in good shape, height and weight proportionate.

Recurrent training consists of much more than opening a door and pointing towards an exit. The 737 door exits are very heavy to open and have no power assist, like all other modern aircraft. You must also be able to open an overwing exit window that may be over 60 lbs on a 763. Not to mention lifting a very heavy life raft from an overhead compartment on the 7M8. We also practice lifting incapacitated passengers. We would certainly do our best to rescue any incapacitated passenger regardless of size.

I agree wholeheartedly with your t-shirt analogy. It is totally unacceptable and demeaning of our profession. It makes me cringe when I hear flight crews say something to that effect during the safety demonstration, thankfully that happens infrequently at my airline.

As for size of flight crew, perhaps those hefty flight attendants may be best suited to rescue "football size" passengers. A 120lbs crew member would definitely have trouble moving someone of that weight.

I agree with your grooming standards. At my airline we have grooming and service checks frequently. Crew members are required to have their hair, footwear and uniforms to company specifications. After boarding, female crew members change to low rise heels for comfort during the flight and in case of evacuation. We are required to wear full uniform for each take off and landing for recognition in the cabin and for our own safety. Although I am not sure if wearing a skirt or dress would hamper an evacuation.

So, yes our primary duty is safety, but service encompasses the greatest part passengers see. Passengers will not always see us ensuring safety equipment is functioning properly, applying first aid or diffusing incidents in the cabin, all of which are important. Safety is our most important priority, but our message to passengers is that they are first and foremost in our minds and hopefully they will realize it's safety first.

To surmise, safety and service are equally important, but safety wins when push comes to shove. We appreciate your views from an outsiders perspective and hope you appreciate ours.


I will echo this sentiment, as others already have.

I think most FAs out there would agree that this individual is, at this moment, an embarrassment, and completely unemployable at any professional airline. Without speculating on how that came to be, it is clear that neither Safety nor Service are any kind of priority for her.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."

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