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dcajet
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Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:50 pm

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... print.html

The low cost SKY operates domestically in Chile and Peru, as well as to Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay. With the A321XLR the airline signals it intends to expand its international footprint, as routes such as SCL-MIA are within the A321XLR range.
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Amiga500
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:26 pm

This is exactly the kind of sale the A321XLR can make that an NMA simply won't be able to touch.

Such low risk - if some, or even all, of the long range routes don't work out, then they just redeploy the new aircraft on their standard trunk narrowbody routes.


With NMA, your taking on a new type with a higher operating cost base for those shorter missions. It would leave you vulnerable to losing your bread and butter market to a competitor.
 
RalXWB
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:28 pm

It still amuses me that people call the XLR a niche plane. It already has more or less the same number of orders as the 737-9 or -10.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:36 pm

No info on seating, I guess it will be high density as SKY is referred to in the Airbus release as a ulcc.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:45 pm

RalXWB wrote:
It still amuses me that people call the XLR a niche plane. It already has more or less the same number of orders as the 737-9 or -10.


Is there any place where you can see all the A321LR and A321XLR orders? The wikipedia page insists on lumping all A321neo orders into one.
 
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OA940
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:25 pm

The XLR is the way to go, and will present tons of opportunities in the next years
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tealnz
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:32 pm

Has anyone come up with a payload/pax number for the XLR with full tanks?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:34 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Such low risk - if some, or even all, of the long range routes don't work out, then they just redeploy the new aircraft on their standard trunk narrowbody routes.


Sure, with higher purchase cost, less cargo flexibility, and higher operating costs than a Neo or 321LR. Nothing is free.
 
skystar767
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:37 pm

Am sorry but Boeing should have made improvements on the 757 which united airlines want and use the 757 as a stop gap until they come up with something better. I always said when Boeing took over McDonnell Douglas it was the end for them. The ceo of MDD has place becoming part of Boeing .
 
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zkojq
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:43 pm

Another healthy order. Congratulations to Airbus and Sky. The XLR really does make introducing non A32x fleet types unnecessary for long haul flying - excellent for ULCCs.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
Such low risk - if some, or even all, of the long range routes don't work out, then they just redeploy the new aircraft on their standard trunk narrowbody routes.


Sure, with higher purchase cost, less cargo flexibility, and higher operating costs than a Neo or 321LR. Nothing is free.


Because of a couple of hundred kilos more structure than a standard neo and a lower OEW than an LR? I think you're clutching at straws somewhat with that claim. Unless you can point to how much higher Cash Operating Costs of the XLR are compared to a standard neo?
First to fly the 787-9
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:50 pm

The press release does not specify when deliveries would begin. This looks more like it's just a memorandum of understanding. Seeing as the economy in Chile is being affected by some protests presently, I wonder if Sky is waiting to see how things play out next year before committing to a delivery date.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
Such low risk - if some, or even all, of the long range routes don't work out, then they just redeploy the new aircraft on their standard trunk narrowbody routes.


Sure, with higher purchase cost, less cargo flexibility, and higher operating costs than a Neo or 321LR. Nothing is free.


And yet airlines are falling over themselves to get in on the XLR action! How curious. :scratchchin:
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tommy1808
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:51 pm

tealnz wrote:
Has anyone come up with a payload/pax number for the XLR with full tanks?


Pretty much as much as you can reasonably stick into it for long haul. Even with full tanks you can load more than a 321LR as there are only about 3t more fuel, but 4t more TOW and less weight due to deleting the ACTs ... ~21t.
If SLC-MIA is what they are looking for, they can probably go really dense ....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
dcajet
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:55 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
TThis looks more like it's just a memorandum of understanding. Seeing as the economy in Chile is being affected by some protests presently, I wonder if Sky is waiting to see how things play out next year before committing to a delivery date.


It's a Purchase Agreement, actually. Airbus is using the word "order" on their PR piece, though.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:58 pm

dcajet wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
TThis looks more like it's just a memorandum of understanding. Seeing as the economy in Chile is being affected by some protests presently, I wonder if Sky is waiting to see how things play out next year before committing to a delivery date.


It's a Purchase Agreement, actually. Airbus is using the word "order" on their PR piece, though.


https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ement.html

A purchase agreement is a type of legal document outlining the different conditions and terms that are related to the sale of goods. It creates a legally binding contract between the buyer and the seller.


Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Mrakula
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:00 pm

RalXWB wrote:
It still amuses me that people call the XLR a niche plane. It already has more or less the same number of orders as the 737-9 or -10.


737-9/10 (474/521) compete with A321NEO (3201) it outsell them almost 3,2:1!!!

A321XLR has more then 400 orders itself. I cannot found precise number.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:16 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
The press release does not specify when deliveries would begin. This looks more like it's just a memorandum of understanding. Seeing as the economy in Chile is being affected by some protests presently, I wonder if Sky is waiting to see how things play out next year before committing to a delivery date.

UA will receive their first XLR’s in 2024, so Sky won’t receive theirs much earlier. If things get even more pearshaped in Chile the next few years they have plenty of time to anticipate.

I’m wondering, the standard A321neo has already lots of range and from SCL many South American destinations are within reach. So I was thinking, maybe Sky will open direct connections to/from destinations like Punta Arenas (Torres del Paine) or Ushuaia with the XLR. Without the need for a connection at SCL.
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dcajet
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:19 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
TThis looks more like it's just a memorandum of understanding. Seeing as the economy in Chile is being affected by some protests presently, I wonder if Sky is waiting to see how things play out next year before committing to a delivery date.


It's a Purchase Agreement, actually. Airbus is using the word "order" on their PR piece, though.


https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... ement.html

A purchase agreement is a type of legal document outlining the different conditions and terms that are related to the sale of goods. It creates a legally binding contract between the buyer and the seller.


Best regards
Thomas


Not sure if you were expanding on the meaning of a purchase agreement or you were correcting me? Airbus calls the deal with SKY a "purchase agreement".
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:42 pm

According to ATW, the order was placed on September 30th as an "undisclosed customer".

https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-d ... s-a321xlrs

Besides Florida, some speculate SKY would use the A321XLR to fly to Easter Island from SCL, breaking LATAM's monopoly to/from the island.
Last edited by dcajet on Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:43 pm

frigatebird wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
The press release does not specify when deliveries would begin. This looks more like it's just a memorandum of understanding. Seeing as the economy in Chile is being affected by some protests presently, I wonder if Sky is waiting to see how things play out next year before committing to a delivery date.

UA will receive their first XLR’s in 2024, so Sky won’t receive theirs much earlier. If things get even more pearshaped in Chile the next few years they have plenty of time to anticipate.

I’m wondering, the standard A321neo has already lots of range and from SCL many South American destinations are within reach. So I was thinking, maybe Sky will open direct connections to/from destinations like Punta Arenas (Torres del Paine) or Ushuaia with the XLR. Without the need for a connection at SCL.


I'm thinking deliveries are at least 4-5 years out myself. That does give Sky lots of time to think about where and how they would use these birds. I did fly Sky earlier this year, I found the staff to be overall pretty professional and courteous, though the legroom was quite tight. For short flights it is not so bad, but if in a 321XLR for 6 hours or more, the current seating would get uncomfortable.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:07 pm

dcajet wrote:
According to ATW, the order was placed on September 30th as an "undisclosed customer".

https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-d ... s-a321xlrs

Besides Florida, some speculate SKY would use the A321XLR to fly to Easter Island from SCL, breaking LATAM's monopoly to/from the island.


No speculation required, you're exactly correct, they came out & said Easter Island WAS an xlr destination, so they could compete with LA. https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... print.html
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:18 am

This is how air services are being fractured. I'd be surprised if other carriers like B6 don't tack on additional A321XLR orders. From MIA, one can serve all of LatAm with this model...and I expect that Sky Airline plans a service to FLL (after all, except for EK, much of the FLL traffic is LCC).
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:21 am

This is how air services are being fractured. I'd be surprised if other carriers like B6 don't tack on additional A321XLR orders. From MIA, one can serve all of LatAm with this model...and I expect that Sky Airline plans a service to FLL (after all, except for EK, much of the FLL traffic is LCC).

Now, as for Easter Island, the problem with narrow-body service would be: where's your alternate?

As for the A321XLR, it looks as though the 757 replacement has finally arrived, especially with UA's recent order as well.
 
dcajet
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:38 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Now, as for Easter Island, the problem with narrow-body service would be: where's your alternate?



There is no alternate en route, same as California - Hawaii. It's either return to the origination point or continue to the destination. What would the difference be with a 767/787 operating the route?
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Francoflier
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:54 am

This is all a bit confusing.

There seems to be a previous order for 10 (13 according to Wiki) A321Neos already from October, possibly part of a September UFO.
Is this an additional order or a conversion from the previously ordered 321NEOs to XLRs?
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Elgorou
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:42 am

Francoflier wrote:
This is all a bit confusing.

There seems to be a previous order for 10 (13 according to Wiki) A321Neos already from October, possibly part of a September UFO.
Is this an additional order or a conversion from the previously ordered 321NEOs to XLRs?



Is an additional order, to sum up 13 A321N ( 3 initials orders in PAS19 + 10 orders in october) + 10 XLR. First deliveries in 2020 for A312N and 2023 for XLR

https://www.desdescl.com/2019/12/sky-pr ... -bajo.html
 
RCS763AV
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:23 am

This also opens LIM-JFK (maybe even LIM-LAX) as a possibility. The A321XLR is a real game changer. Good for SKY.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:45 am

RCS763AV wrote:
This also opens LIM-JFK (maybe even LIM-LAX) as a possibility. The A321XLR is a real game changer. Good for SKY.


LIM-EWR on UA is already a narrow body plane (B752 pmCO). But I don’t see Sky letting a plane sit the whole day.
 
cschleic
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:38 am

tommy1808 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
Has anyone come up with a payload/pax number for the XLR with full tanks?


Pretty much as much as you can reasonably stick into it for long haul. Even with full tanks you can load more than a 321LR as there are only about 3t more fuel, but 4t more TOW and less weight due to deleting the ACTs ... ~21t.
If SLC-MIA is what they are looking for, they can probably go really dense ....

Best regards
Thomas


Especially since Salt Lake - Miami is under 2,500 miles. I know, just a typo, but couldn't resist.... :)
 
Amiga500
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:05 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
Such low risk - if some, or even all, of the long range routes don't work out, then they just redeploy the new aircraft on their standard trunk narrowbody routes.

Sure, with higher purchase cost, less cargo flexibility, and higher operating costs than a Neo or 321LR. Nothing is free.


I said low risk, not no risk.

The higher costs you note are background noise compared to the expense of buying and operating a small 7AB NMA fleet that the airline subsequently finds cannot turn a profit on the originally envisaged routes.
 
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Mistral1
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:21 pm

dcajet wrote:
According to ATW, the order was placed on September 30th as an "undisclosed customer".

https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-d ... s-a321xlrs

Besides Florida, some speculate SKY would use the A321XLR to fly to Easter Island from SCL, breaking LATAM's monopoly to/from the island.


I really hope so. It's about time!
 
estorilm
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Re: Chile's SKY Airline orders 10 A321XLR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:42 pm

Seems like just yesterday, everyone was talking about "rumors" of something beyond the LR, and many of us thought it was crazy to introduce another bump and different plane so soon after the LR.

If they did, it would certainly be niche - I believe the market research folks mentioned around 300 orders or so total perhaps?

Then bam, 400+ in 6 months?! I just can't emphasize enough how brilliant of a move this was for Airbus' marketing and engineering teams. Low risk, quick-to-market, and they've found (again!) a way to demand even more of a premium out of what's essentially the same aircraft (cost-wise).

Profits aside, it's interesting to note that the model also serves the purpose of forcing Boeing's hand and dictating their own future development programs.

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