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Dominion301
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Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:54 pm

So AC are beating WS to the punch by launching a daily summer seasonal YYC-BOS. What's surprising is it's on a 319 instead of a new 223.

YUL-BNA will be daily on an E75.

YVR-EWR's frequency next summer will be doubling to 2x daily.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 21971.html
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:13 pm

Last time I flew YUL-BNA I had to transfer in LaGuardia-not fun. I think it was AA.
All these new USA destinations from YUL (PIT/BWI/RDU/SEA etc.) are giving me more vacation destinations that would have otherwise required a transfer via one hub or another. Just the hassle of that was enough to eliminate those cities from my list of potentials.
 
runway23
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:22 pm

No equipment is listed in the release for YVR-EWR which makes me guess it might be operated with a 737MAX. Wonder if the existing flight will also change from 787 to 737Max, as the press release doesn't specifically say that there is an increase in capacity.
 
YVRda
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:40 pm

AC is also beating WJ to the punch by launching a 2nd daily flight to NYC from YVR. With the departure of Cathy’s YVR - JFK flight there was a lot of talk on here that WJ would step in an add a flight in response but it looks like AC is doing just that. (EWR)
Last edited by YVRda on Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:50 pm

YUL-BNA on a 175? Nice! STL can't get anything more than a CRJ-200 to YYZ (for obvious reasons).
Delta Gold Medallion
 
tphuang
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:59 pm

JFK-YVR seems like such an under served market in summer time. It's too bad AC doesn't fly into JFK. I'd love to see them do that route.
 
patrickjp93
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:03 pm

runway23 wrote:
No equipment is listed in the release for YVR-EWR which makes me guess it might be operated with a 737MAX. Wonder if the existing flight will also change from 787 to 737Max, as the press release doesn't specifically say that there is an increase in capacity.


Having flown BNE-YVR-EWR 4 times in the last 2 years, even in the off season, YVR-EWR rarely has any empty seats on a 298-seat plane. I expect it'll be a second 787, probably the 255-seat 788 from Brisbane. It's majority filled by the 3 AC flights from BNE, SYD, and MEL. And that connection is marketed as the fastest way to fly from Australia to New York.

I imagine SYD-YVR will go double daily at least seasonally before long, so there's 1/5 of the capacity you'd need to justify a second 787.
Last edited by patrickjp93 on Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
JFK-YVR seems like such an under served market in summer time. It's too bad AC doesn't fly into JFK. I'd love to see them do that route.


AC used to fly into JFK, but it made more sense to consolidate everything to EWR to feed UA.
 
patrickjp93
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:23 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
JFK-YVR seems like such an under served market in summer time. It's too bad AC doesn't fly into JFK. I'd love to see them do that route.


AC used to fly into JFK, but it made more sense to consolidate everything to EWR to feed UA.


To be fair, if you fly all the way from Vancouver to Newark, unless you're connecting to Maryland or Delaware, you're probably not hopping on another flight. If you're aiming for Hartford, CT or anything west of it, it's better to get there through Toronto anyway. I myself connect on to Norfolk, but usually I go BNE-LAX-CLT-ORF rather than up and over through YVR. That new BNE-ORD flight is unfortunately bad timing to connect on from, but oh well, I can live with LAX for another handful of trips until AKL-EWR takes off.
 
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thekorean
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
JFK-YVR seems like such an under served market in summer time. It's too bad AC doesn't fly into JFK. I'd love to see them do that route.


AC used to fly into JFK, but it made more sense to consolidate everything to EWR to feed UA.

Don’t they also fly to LGA?
 
beechnut
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:37 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
So AC are beating WS to the punch by launching a daily summer seasonal YYC-BOS. What's surprising is it's on a 319 instead of a new 223.



Most likely a lack of metal. They are receiving 1 A223 this year, then 17 throughout next year, according to the Q3 2019 fleet plan. Not sure what the planned delivery rate will be but it's likely that by next summer they won't have more than 7 or 8 223s. As the fleet builds in strength, it will likely take over more routes. The order is for 45 aircraft eventually, plus some options.

Beech
 
jimbo737
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:42 pm

Boston is an increasingly important Delta hub. WestJet is the largest airline in Calgary.

Boston is not a hub for Star, and Calgary is 4th down the hit parade for AC in terms of its multiple Canadian hubs.

WJ won't announce its summer sched for a while.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:43 pm

thekorean wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
JFK-YVR seems like such an under served market in summer time. It's too bad AC doesn't fly into JFK. I'd love to see them do that route.


AC used to fly into JFK, but it made more sense to consolidate everything to EWR to feed UA.

Don’t they also fly to LGA?


Yup
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:30 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
thekorean wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

AC used to fly into JFK, but it made more sense to consolidate everything to EWR to feed UA.

Don’t they also fly to LGA?


Yup


But to YUL and YYZ only. The moved YOW over to EWR about 18 months ago, so EWR is YVR, YYC, YYZ, YOW and YUL.

runway23 wrote:
No equipment is listed in the release for YVR-EWR which makes me guess it might be operated with a 737MAX. Wonder if the existing flight will also change from 787 to 737Max, as the press release doesn't specifically say that there is an increase in capacity.


Looking at AC's skeds, the 789 remains as-is while the new flight as suspected given the lack of equipment type in the PR, is showing as a MAX.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:02 pm

YVRda wrote:
AC is also beating WJ to the punch by launching a 2nd daily flight to NYC from YVR. With the departure of Cathy’s YVR - JFK flight there was a lot of talk on here that WJ would step in an add a flight in response but it looks like AC is doing just that. (EWR)


DL already serves JFK from YVR and its going year round I assume after CX's departure. WS doesn't need to serve that route as DL already takes care of it and WS can just put their codeshare on that flight w their new JV.
Last edited by YYZORD on Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:03 pm

I wonder if AC would ever consider taking advantage of the Saturday exemption to operate a YVR flight into LGA. I would assume it's more trouble than it's worth, but obviously AC already has the staff and gates at LGA to handle it.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:16 pm

Nashville has been having success with Canadian markets. It seems as if our friends up North are into Country/Western Music.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
x1234
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:26 pm

I wonder why AC hasn't launched YVR-IAD yet.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:47 pm

x1234 wrote:
I wonder why AC hasn't launched YVR-IAD yet.


I would imagine they will once they have enough A220s on property.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:11 pm

I'm expecting YVR-MCO to come back year round once daily when the 737 max comes back. The A220 can be viable for the route but I think the Max is better fitted for this route.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:03 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Boston is an increasingly important Delta hub. WestJet is the largest airline in Calgary.

Boston is not a hub for Star, and Calgary is 4th down the hit parade for AC in terms of its multiple Canadian hubs.

WJ won't announce its summer sched for a while.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.


I'm going to call AC's BOS-YYC a blocking move on WS/DL. Outside of a few short summer weeks there isn't enough room for two carriers.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:28 am

runway23 wrote:
No equipment is listed in the release for YVR-EWR which makes me guess it might be operated with a 737MAX. Wonder if the existing flight will also change from 787 to 737Max, as the press release doesn't specifically say that there is an increase in capacity.


Even though CX is ending the YVR-JFK sector, I'd be surprised if YVR-EWR downgauges back to a narrow-body, as the existing AC548 (currently a B788/B789 mix) flight ties into the Asia and Australia departure bank and there are pretty healthy loads on the existing daily YVR-EWR-YVR flight. However, this new flight is more optimal for arrivals back from Asia, which is why it's an RON at EWR. I would expect one daily B789 and one B38M.

As for YVR-LGA, I don't see that even on Saturdays given the wide-body EWR flight.

Also, I wonder how a seasonal YHZ-BNA flight might sound, collecting passengers from around Atlantic Canada and bypassing YUL, either on an Embraer 190 or on the BCS3 (A220-300) when enough are on property. (Halifax is the center of country music in Canada, and we all know about Nashville.)
 
ST165
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:10 am

And yet there is still no YVR-BOS.

By the way, the YUL-GRU inaugural is tomorrow!
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:19 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Boston is an increasingly important Delta hub. WestJet is the largest airline in Calgary.

Boston is not a hub for Star, and Calgary is 4th down the hit parade for AC in terms of its multiple Canadian hubs.

WJ won't announce its summer sched for a while.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.


I imagine WS will hold out as long as possible for the MAX situation to resolve itself hopefully with the certainty of its return in time for IATA summer 2020 season.

WS have some rumoured interesting announcements including YHZ-MAN and YOW-LGW, both of whom are no doubt contingent upon the MAX coming back...not to mention what they plan on doing with the 763s next summer apart from BCN.
 
cactus18
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:20 am

ST165 wrote:
And yet there is still no YVR-BOS.

By the way, the YUL-GRU inaugural is tomorrow!


AC has been operating a seasonal YVR-BOS for three summers now. The flight times of YYC-BOS will complement the YVR flight nicely as BOS bound passengers from YVR can either fly nonstop in the morning or connect through YYC in the late afternoon.
 
ST165
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:54 am

cactus18 wrote:
ST165 wrote:
And yet there is still no YVR-BOS.

By the way, the YUL-GRU inaugural is tomorrow!


AC has been operating a seasonal YVR-BOS for three summers now. The flight times of YYC-BOS will complement the YVR flight nicely as BOS bound passengers from YVR can either fly nonstop in the morning or connect through YYC in the late afternoon.


But it should be year-round!! Twenty years ago CP had YVR-BOS and now we can only get a seasonal??
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:14 am

ST165 wrote:
cactus18 wrote:
ST165 wrote:
And yet there is still no YVR-BOS.

By the way, the YUL-GRU inaugural is tomorrow!


AC has been operating a seasonal YVR-BOS for three summers now. The flight times of YYC-BOS will complement the YVR flight nicely as BOS bound passengers from YVR can either fly nonstop in the morning or connect through YYC in the late afternoon.


But it should be year-round!! Twenty years ago CP had YVR-BOS and now we can only get a seasonal??


Think of how profitable CP was and therein lies the answer.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:49 am

ST165 wrote:
cactus18 wrote:
ST165 wrote:
And yet there is still no YVR-BOS.

By the way, the YUL-GRU inaugural is tomorrow!


AC has been operating a seasonal YVR-BOS for three summers now. The flight times of YYC-BOS will complement the YVR flight nicely as BOS bound passengers from YVR can either fly nonstop in the morning or connect through YYC in the late afternoon.


But it should be year-round!! Twenty years ago CP had YVR-BOS and now we can only get a seasonal??


I'm sure YVR-BOS will become year round once the A220 is put on that route. Same with AC planning to do YVR-IAD year round with the A220.
 
B752OS
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:36 pm

YYZORD wrote:
ST165 wrote:
cactus18 wrote:

AC has been operating a seasonal YVR-BOS for three summers now. The flight times of YYC-BOS will complement the YVR flight nicely as BOS bound passengers from YVR can either fly nonstop in the morning or connect through YYC in the late afternoon.


But it should be year-round!! Twenty years ago CP had YVR-BOS and now we can only get a seasonal??


I'm sure YVR-BOS will become year round once the A220 is put on that route. Same with AC planning to do YVR-IAD year round with the A220.


Wasn't there a presentation AC gave a short time ago highlighting the A220 and YVR-BOS was mentioned as a route they would use it on?
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:45 pm

patrickjp93 wrote:

Having flown BNE-YVR-EWR 4 times in the last 2 years, even in the off season, YVR-EWR rarely has any empty seats on a 298-seat plane. I expect it'll be a second 787, probably the 255-seat 788 from Brisbane.


No. It's a 7M8.

patrickjp93 wrote:
I imagine SYD-YVR will go double daily at least seasonally before long, so there's 1/5 of the capacity you'd need to justify a second 787.


No. Firstly, It's a fact that AC's Australia yields aren't where they want it to be. Too much capacity from North America to Australia is to blame. Adding a second SYD flight will only dilute yields even further. Secondly, AC has no more spare widebodies. They are all accounted for.

So you're 0 and 2 so far...
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
raylee67
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:46 pm

Dominion301 wrote:

YVR-EWR's frequency next summer will be doubling to 2x daily.

Trying to catch the passengers currently on CX.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
jimbo737
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:35 pm

AC operating YYC - BOS is akin to Delta operating DEN-CLT.

It'd never happen. Delta is far too disciplined to take on this sort flying.

That discipline is rewarded by annual margins AC could only dream of.
 
tphuang
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:52 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
AC operating YYC - BOS is akin to Delta operating DEN-CLT.

It'd never happen. Delta is far too disciplined to take on this sort flying.

That discipline is rewarded by annual margins AC could only dream of.

Given that AC has pushed WS to having just 2 or 3 flight to YZZ out of BOS, I'd say their Boston strategy has been working pretty well. If you are flying to Canada from BOS, you take AC.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:18 pm

AC, after 50+ years, had a 50.4% share of the Toronto-Boston market in the first 5 months of 2019, (the most recent readily available US DoT data).

Porter, after about 12 years of operations, had a 31% share.

WS Encore, after 4 years, had a 18.7% share.

Are you suggesting that the newest entrant into that O&D market should be able to dominate after 4 years of operation?

WS is doing just fine on the transborder, as defined by loads. They operated with a system trans-border l/f of 88%, filling 2,473,725 seats in the first 5 months of 2019.

The AC family filled 78% of their 7,640,143 seats over the same period. Perhaps an over capacity issue? 8-)

Porter filled 67.7% of their transborder capacity. That'd explain why I get a seat sale email from Porter every second day on my email....

Interestingly, Flair's attempt at trans border resulted in a rather anemic 47% l/f last spring. They must have lost their shirts on that little adventure....
Last edited by jimbo737 on Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
YVRda
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:26 pm

ST165 wrote:
cactus18 wrote:
ST165 wrote:
And yet there is still no YVR-BOS.

By the way, the YUL-GRU inaugural is tomorrow!


AC has been operating a seasonal YVR-BOS for three summers now. The flight times of YYC-BOS will complement the YVR flight nicely as BOS bound passengers from YVR can either fly nonstop in the morning or connect through YYC in the late afternoon.


But it should be year-round!! Twenty years ago CP had YVR-BOS and now we can only get a seasonal??



I think AC is waiting for the right aircraft to make YVR-BOS year round.. aka the A220. The delivery schedule is pretty slow for them. I think they will have 8-10 by the summer so come time for the winter schedule announcement we may see YVR-BOS go year round on the A220 once a good amount have been delivered.
 
tphuang
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:53 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
AC, after 50+ years, had a 50.4% share of the Toronto-Boston market in the first 5 months of 2019, (the most recent readily available US DoT data).

Porter, after about 12 years of operations, had a 31% share.

WS Encore, after 4 years, had a 18.7% share.

Are you suggesting that the newest entrant into that O&D market should be able to dominate after 4 years of operation?

WS is doing just fine on the transborder, as defined by loads. They operated with a system trans-border l/f of 88%, filling 2,473,725 seats in the first 5 months of 2019.

The AC family filled 78% of their 7,640,143 seats over the same period. Perhaps an over capacity issue? 8-)

Porter filled 67.7% of their transborder capacity. That'd explain why I get a seat sale email from Porter every second day on my email....

Interestingly, Flair's attempt at trans border resulted in a rather anemic 47% l/f last spring. They must have lost their shirts on that little adventure....


i'm saying AC pushed WS off both YHZ and YUL. The number of years you serve a route really means not much in the current airline market. AA served JFK-SAN for 50 years and guess what, it's now basically non-existant on that market.

And since when did LF become the same as yield? That myth should've been debunked a long time ago. Nor does their LF overall have any relevance to their performance out of BOS.
 
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767333ER
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:08 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
AC, after 50+ years, had a 50.4% share of the Toronto-Boston market in the first 5 months of 2019, (the most recent readily available US DoT data).

Porter, after about 12 years of operations, had a 31% share.

WS Encore, after 4 years, had a 18.7% share.

Are you suggesting that the newest entrant into that O&D market should be able to dominate after 4 years of operation?

WS is doing just fine on the transborder, as defined by loads. They operated with a system trans-border l/f of 88%, filling 2,473,725 seats in the first 5 months of 2019.

The AC family filled 78% of their 7,640,143 seats over the same period. Perhaps an over capacity issue? 8-)

Porter filled 67.7% of their transborder capacity. That'd explain why I get a seat sale email from Porter every second day on my email....

Interestingly, Flair's attempt at trans border resulted in a rather anemic 47% l/f last spring. They must have lost their shirts on that little adventure....

Other than the USDoT Where are you getting your numbers from?
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

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YYZLGA
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:26 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
AC operating YYC - BOS is akin to Delta operating DEN-CLT.

It'd never happen. Delta is far too disciplined to take on this sort flying.

That discipline is rewarded by annual margins AC could only dream of.


That comparison is nonsensical. YYC is a significant hub for AC, including transatlantic and transpacific flying. Yes, they're the #2 airline at the airport, but is it absurd for WS to fly from any airport where they're #2? Say, YYZ-YHZ? Does WS lack discipline for operating that route between two AC hubs? Incidentally, Delta is the #3 airline at BOS.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:12 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
WS is doing just fine on the transborder, as defined by loads. They operated with a system trans-border l/f of 88%, filling 2,473,725 seats in the first 5 months of 2019.


Unless you're name's Flair, it's easy to achieve those kinds of transborder loads when during the first 4/5 months of the year 4/5ths of your seats are to sun destinations. Try pulling an 88% LF on the likes of YYZ-MKE in January or any time of the year for that matter. If all that suddenly matters is LF and not yield, why did WS abandon the +90% loads on YUL-Florida?

In other words AC are also doing just fine and trade LF for yield in a lot of business markets. Keep in mind, any non-YYZ business-heavy transborder route that WS has attempted east of Alberta (i.e. a grand total of two routes) has failed...not to mention all the leisure transborder routes east of Manitoba that they've reduced capacity on or cancelled outright...many of which pulled in > 88% loads consistently.

Jimbo, I like your insight, but when you put on the Teal sunglasses or drink a glass of the Teal Kool-Aid, you can kinda go off the rails a just a tad with your arguments. Comparing AC at YYC to DL at DEN or CLT, lol!!!!
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:19 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
AC operating YYC - BOS is akin to Delta operating DEN-CLT.

It'd never happen. Delta is far too disciplined to take on this sort flying.

That discipline is rewarded by annual margins AC could only dream of.



Jimbo, who operates 2 daily year-round intercontinental destinations ex. YYC?
That's right, not WS. Teal is busy burying valuable 789s in DUB and FCO a couple of times a week in summer.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 493
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:52 pm

Anyone noticed DL's move to make YVR-JFK daily year round????? This is great and is probably going to work due to CX cancelling YVR-JFK. I think WS will codeshare on that route as it is easier with the JV than them adding their own metal on that route as WS already serves JFK from YYC.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:01 am

"WS is doing just fine on the transborder, as defined by loads". No mention of yields, folks. Just loads.

Transborder seasonality isn't an issue at WS. In 2018, transborder Jan to April and Nov & Dec operated with an 86.8% l/f. May through October operated with an 86.9%. WS doesn't keep loads of unit cost inflating excess capacity around. Old aircraft are shoved out the door, not kept around and sold as "free airplanes". ;)

I suppose if one operates 4 hubs in a population of 37 million, with the western hubs 425 miles apart and the eastern hubs just 316 miles apart, you can justify anything all the time. I doubt you'd see a US major trying to run 4 hubs if the US had a population of 37m.

The point is, Delta, who are #2 in Boston behind jetBlue, with no one else even close, plan on hitting 200 departures a day within the next 18-24 months. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/travel/2 ... -showdown/

United has a presence in Boston, but have the discipline to use Boston as the spoke it is, with n/s flights on their iron operating only to hubs in Newark, Denver, Chicago, Houston, Dulles, Los Angeles or San Francisco.

They aren't stupid enough to operate Boston - Dallas, Boston-Charlotte, Boston- Atlanta or Boston - Miami, which is one of the reasons why their margins are so much higher than AC who can't resist chasing market share even with significantly higher unit costs.

No one in Calgary or the natural feed markets into Calgary, is likely going to fly YYC-BOS with a view to connecting to Newark, the only logical United / Star connection possibility. BOS will be the end of the line.

WS's YYC-ATL hub connecting flight, launched in March 2019, operated with a 94.85% load factor over the first 3 full months, (the latest DoT data). Delta are no slouches when it comes to sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

Given Delta's prowess, it's US industry position as the business carrier of choice, and it's plans in Boston, I don't think a DL or WS operated n/s flight would have any issues at all especially as Delta expands its presence there and can offer countless other down line connections, as is the case in ATL.

Now, should UAL buy jetBlue, that'd change the landscape quite significantly in Boston. But then why would AC funnel traffic to a code share partner instead of routing it to through their own hubs in YUL or YYZ and keep the traffic, and the revenues, all to themselves?

Discipline. That's the difference between airlines in Canada and airlines in the US.

As for the Teal, that's Onex's problem now. New opportunities in larger sandboxes await. 8-)
 
Thomaas
Posts: 681
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:53 am

jimbo737 wrote:
"WS is doing just fine on the transborder, as defined by loads". No mention of yields, folks. Just loads.

Transborder seasonality isn't an issue at WS. In 2018, transborder Jan to April and Nov & Dec operated with an 86.8% l/f. May through October operated with an 86.9%. WS doesn't keep loads of unit cost inflating excess capacity around. Old aircraft are shoved out the door, not kept around and sold as "free airplanes". ;)

I suppose if one operates 4 hubs in a population of 37 million, with the western hubs 425 miles apart and the eastern hubs just 316 miles apart, you can justify anything all the time. I doubt you'd see a US major trying to run 4 hubs if the US had a population of 37m.

The point is, Delta, who are #2 in Boston behind jetBlue, with no one else even close, plan on hitting 200 departures a day within the next 18-24 months. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/travel/2 ... -showdown/

United has a presence in Boston, but have the discipline to use Boston as the spoke it is, with n/s flights on their iron operating only to hubs in Newark, Denver, Chicago, Houston, Dulles, Los Angeles or San Francisco.

They aren't stupid enough to operate Boston - Dallas, Boston-Charlotte, Boston- Atlanta or Boston - Miami, which is one of the reasons why their margins are so much higher than AC who can't resist chasing market share even with significantly higher unit costs.

No one in Calgary or the natural feed markets into Calgary, is likely going to fly YYC-BOS with a view to connecting to Newark, the only logical United / Star connection possibility. BOS will be the end of the line.

WS's YYC-ATL hub connecting flight, launched in March 2019, operated with a 94.85% load factor over the first 3 full months, (the latest DoT data). Delta are no slouches when it comes to sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

Given Delta's prowess, it's US industry position as the business carrier of choice, and it's plans in Boston, I don't think a DL or WS operated n/s flight would have any issues at all especially as Delta expands its presence there and can offer countless other down line connections, as is the case in ATL.

Now, should UAL buy jetBlue, that'd change the landscape quite significantly in Boston. But then why would AC funnel traffic to a code share partner instead of routing it to through their own hubs in YUL or YYZ and keep the traffic, and the revenues, all to themselves?

Discipline. That's the difference between airlines in Canada and airlines in the US.

As for the Teal, that's Onex's problem now. New opportunities in larger sandboxes await. 8-)


You're completely missing the point that BOS is not a good airport to connect to any US city from YYC as it involves backtracking. The only logical connection between DL and WS would be Western Canada to BOS or TATL. AC has a big presence in BOS, O&D to YYC as well as Western Canadian connections should fill this flight no problem. Furthermore, it also complements YVR-BOS by offering an afternoon departure from YVR and a morning one from BOS, instead of the current non-stop that leaves YVR in the morning and BOS in the evening.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5075
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:21 am

Actually AA and DL are about the same size. And their claims of hitting 200 dep a day isn't happening with their current gate setup. And BOS is not a place you connect domestically within US. So now that AC has beaten WS to the punch to YYC, I don't see the point of WS trying with YYC. They've already quit on YHZ and YUL. And they are down to 2 flights a day to YYZ. At this point, they are more likely to pull out of BOS completely rather than launch YYC.
 
patrickjp93
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:04 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
patrickjp93 wrote:

Having flown BNE-YVR-EWR 4 times in the last 2 years, even in the off season, YVR-EWR rarely has any empty seats on a 298-seat plane. I expect it'll be a second 787, probably the 255-seat 788 from Brisbane.


No. It's a 7M8.

patrickjp93 wrote:
I imagine SYD-YVR will go double daily at least seasonally before long, so there's 1/5 of the capacity you'd need to justify a second 787.


No. Firstly, It's a fact that AC's Australia yields aren't where they want it to be. Too much capacity from North America to Australia is to blame. Adding a second SYD flight will only dilute yields even further. Secondly, AC has no more spare widebodies. They are all accounted for.

So you're 0 and 2 so far...


There are open 789 delivery slots in each of the next 3 years. Boeing only needs 6 months notice for a new firm order. Unusual, but it's been done.

Second, it's only Brisbane where load factors are atrocious during non-ski season. Melbourne is packed to the gills every stinking day. Sydney is strong too. Only reason yield isn't amazing is they're running on a 772LR instead of a 789. So down gauging and going for a second 789 would improve yields for AC.

And lastly, the 737 M8 is an assumption by the media, not an assertion by AC. YVR-EWR is consistently full to bursting in both directions. While I'm sure a 737 M8 is less risky to run in terms of yields, you'd have to decrease density to fly transcon or have United eat your lunch, so a 737 M8 is not optimal. It forces a reconfiguration if demand exceeds seat availability and an up-gauge is required.
 
patrickjp93
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:06 am

tphuang wrote:
Actually AA and DL are about the same size. And their claims of hitting 200 dep a day isn't happening with their current gate setup. And BOS is not a place you connect domestically within US. So now that AC has beaten WS to the punch to YYC, I don't see the point of WS trying with YYC. They've already quit on YHZ and YUL. And they are down to 2 flights a day to YYZ. At this point, they are more likely to pull out of BOS completely rather than launch YYC.


To be fair Montreal was a lost cause anyway given WestJet isn't investing in having their entire flight staff trained to speak French and redo all of the automated announcements.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2960
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:32 am

jimbo737 wrote:
AC operating YYC - BOS is akin to Delta operating DEN-CLT.

It'd never happen. Delta is far too disciplined to take on this sort flying.

That discipline is rewarded by annual margins AC could only dream of.


What on earth are you blabbering on about?

1. YYC-BOS is currently unserved and is one of the largest unserved US markets from YYC. DEN-CLT already has 3 carriers on the route. AA, F9 and UA.

2. Last time I checked, AC had a hub at YYC. DL doesn’t at either DEN or CLT.

3. YYC-BOS will be running for a 2 and a half month summer peak season only. It won’t be hard to make money off the route.

So, to sum up, decent O&D, peak season route, no other competitor, and hub on one end. You know what that is called: DISCIPLINE.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13233
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:45 am

patrickjp93 wrote:
To be fair Montreal was a lost cause anyway given WestJet isn't investing in having their entire flight staff trained to speak French and redo all of the automated announcements.

what would they have to redo?

99% sure that their automated announcements were bilingual already, when I flew LAX-YVR on them a while back.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:51 am

patrickjp93 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Actually AA and DL are about the same size. And their claims of hitting 200 dep a day isn't happening with their current gate setup. And BOS is not a place you connect domestically within US. So now that AC has beaten WS to the punch to YYC, I don't see the point of WS trying with YYC. They've already quit on YHZ and YUL. And they are down to 2 flights a day to YYZ. At this point, they are more likely to pull out of BOS completely rather than launch YYC.


To be fair Montreal was a lost cause anyway given WestJet isn't investing in having their entire flight staff trained to speak French and redo all of the automated announcements.


Well you know what if they want to be a real airline in comparison to AC they're going to have to put on their big boy pants and suck it up.

YUL as Canada's second largest city and huge market for international traffic has pathetic service from Westjet. It's beyond me how they can't even keep a year round flight to YVR and gave up on FLL especially when the competition constantly fills multiple daily 767's.
 
patrickjp93
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:58 am

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
patrickjp93 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Actually AA and DL are about the same size. And their claims of hitting 200 dep a day isn't happening with their current gate setup. And BOS is not a place you connect domestically within US. So now that AC has beaten WS to the punch to YYC, I don't see the point of WS trying with YYC. They've already quit on YHZ and YUL. And they are down to 2 flights a day to YYZ. At this point, they are more likely to pull out of BOS completely rather than launch YYC.


To be fair Montreal was a lost cause anyway given WestJet isn't investing in having their entire flight staff trained to speak French and redo all of the automated announcements.


Well you know what if they want to be a real airline in comparison to AC they're going to have to put on their big boy pants and suck it up.

YUL as Canada's second largest city and huge market for international traffic has pathetic service from Westjet. It's beyond me how they can't even keep a year round flight to YVR and gave up on FLL especially when the competition constantly fills multiple daily 767's.


AC is a real airline? Please, they're just the monopoly incumbent, and airport slots aren't exactly being freed up. If I were running WestJet I wouldn't absorb that cost either. It's pointless given having "flag carrier" status is these days a fairly worthless moniker while the airline alliances are showing signs of crumbling. Put that cash toward your hard and soft product and on good market research. Montreal is a fortress and is known by tourists and businesses alike to be aggressively anti-English. Let it rot while I eat into AC's U.S. market and get my international game going.

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