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wave46
Posts: 185
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:29 pm

patrickjp93 wrote:
China's been heavily involved in Vancouver since the 80s. You can pretty much get a 1:1 correlation between Chinese money flowing into Canada and real estate prices soaring on their speculation. In fact Tshingua Group is still quietly fishing around for a small but capable international airline based in North America. Only problem is Transat is basically dead and Delta and Emirates both have their fingers in WS' pie already, and the US3 are not about to give Jet Blue any breathing room to get slots into China.

The slots were valuable enough to become AC's big push for Euro flights in the early 2000s. Strategy rarely gets executed quickly when it involves infrastructure.


I don't know if I agree with you. That's a lot of speculation.

The 1990s was a miserable time for Canada and airlines. It didn't get better in the early 2000s, either (Westjet excepted).

I feel as if we're connecting the dots backwards, sometimes. It's all and wonderful to look at the current peak in aviation and say that AC had an unfair advantage, but a time machine trip back to 2001 would likely reveal that the Canadian merger was a disaster, compounded by the downturn of 9/11. Then there was the misery of the late 2000s, with high fuel prices and the recession.

It also begets another question: Who would have bought the slots? Westjet was nowhere near ready to go on an Asia/Europe expansion in 1999, having started operations in 1996.

I mean, aside from LHR, what did Canadian have that was terribly valuable? Some 767s?
 
patrickjp93
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:46 pm

wave46 wrote:
patrickjp93 wrote:
China's been heavily involved in Vancouver since the 80s. You can pretty much get a 1:1 correlation between Chinese money flowing into Canada and real estate prices soaring on their speculation. In fact Tshingua Group is still quietly fishing around for a small but capable international airline based in North America. Only problem is Transat is basically dead and Delta and Emirates both have their fingers in WS' pie already, and the US3 are not about to give Jet Blue any breathing room to get slots into China.

The slots were valuable enough to become AC's big push for Euro flights in the early 2000s. Strategy rarely gets executed quickly when it involves infrastructure.


I don't know if I agree with you. That's a lot of speculation.

The 1990s was a miserable time for Canada and airlines. It didn't get better in the early 2000s, either (Westjet excepted).

I feel as if we're connecting the dots backwards, sometimes. It's all and wonderful to look at the current peak in aviation and say that AC had an unfair advantage, but a time machine trip back to 2001 would likely reveal that the Canadian merger was a disaster, compounded by the downturn of 9/11. Then there was the misery of the late 2000s, with high fuel prices and the recession.

It also begets another question: Who would have bought the slots? Westjet was nowhere near ready to go on an Asia/Europe expansion in 1999, having started operations in 1996.

I mean, aside from LHR, what did Canadian have that was terribly valuable? Some 767s?

Primarily because AC was a government-backed monopoly that wasn't allowed to fail and didn't have to face competition.

Yes WS was in a perfect position to buy the slots, just use them differently such as into the U.S. or for competitive domestic travel. A landing/takeoff slot is just a slot, doesn't matter where the craft originates from.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:36 pm

I detect a lot of East (AC)/West (WS/CP) antipathy in this thread. Sad really.

Getting back to the original topic-I for one am happy to have a non-stop YUL-BNA option available. Despite the LGA transfer hassle I enjoyed my last trip to BNA a couple of years ago and this service makes a return more likely.

The other two announcements (YYC-BOS & YVR-EWR) also make a lot of sense.

If you take out all the nasty regional bias all of these services offer more choices for consumers which is of more importance to me.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:19 pm

May I remind you that this thread is not about AC routes to Down Under but about new US Transborder routes? Down Under routes were not even mentioned as a possible connection in the linked article. Canadian Airlines is also not subject of this thread.

Please stay on topic.
 
threepoint
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:37 pm

Well I made my first post in a very long time and it seems to have run afoul of the moderator already, seeing as SQ22 made the post above while I was typing mine. So I'll repost it, omitting the bits concerning the Chinese re CP, YVR-Australia and YVR-Hong Kong info.

AC mainline has operated YVR-BOS for years (A319) and we can expect this route to go year-round once sufficient A220s have arrived.
The newly-announced 2nd daily YVR-EWR will be operated by the Max, assuming that ever-popular aircraft flies again. The existing AC 548/549 will remain the B789. Once Qantas' Project Sunrise is in place, it may affect the viability of 2x daily YVR-EWR, but I suggest there will be a sufficient demand to serve those unwilling to pay a premium for or sit still long enough for 19-hour nonstops.
AC was on the verge on announcing new YVR-Florida (MCO/MIA) service prior to the Max grounding, which has placed those plans on ice for now.

As is I'm sure very obvious to all, the Max debacle has severely curtailed dozens of new or planned transborder routes, particularly from YYZ and YVR.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:18 pm

Well to those that were wondering how long before WestJet would retaliate to AC's YYC-BOS, here's your answer: two days and seven hours: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/w ... 63284.html

Of course a jab at the competition is needed in the process. ;)

"Fantastic routes need fantastic schedules and WestJet is offering guests convenient flight times between our extensive hub out of Calgary and the capital of Massachusetts," said Arved von zur Muehlen, WestJet Chief Commercial Officer. "While other carriers may fly the route, WestJet continues to build our schedule for the region's business and leisure travellers. It's never been easier to explore and do business in Calgary, Boston and beyond."
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:27 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Well to those that were wondering how long before WestJet would retaliate to AC's YYC-BOS, here's your answer: two days and seven hours: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/w ... 63284.html

Of course a jab at the competition is needed in the process. ;)

"Fantastic routes need fantastic schedules and WestJet is offering guests convenient flight times between our extensive hub out of Calgary and the capital of Massachusetts," said Arved von zur Muehlen, WestJet Chief Commercial Officer. "While other carriers may fly the route, WestJet continues to build our schedule for the region's business and leisure travellers. It's never been easier to explore and do business in Calgary, Boston and beyond."


Honestly I don’t see it as retaliation, it’s been rumored for a while. I see it as AC making the announcement to scoop WS, forcing an announcement earlier then planned. I’m sure there will be more in the coming weeks.
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:32 am

I’d like to get back on topic. Who thinks both AC and WS will be able to coexist on YYC-BOS?

Personally I do in summer.
 
patrickjp93
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:05 am

Dominion301 wrote:
I’d like to get back on topic. Who thinks both AC and WS will be able to coexist on YYC-BOS?

Personally I do in summer.

They'll be able to coexist as long as WS has capital.
 
alo2yyz
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:53 am

GSP psgr wrote:
alexdelzotto1 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Is there any routes AC can add out of YYZ for transborder other than SJC or is the growth stopping here?


Anyway back on topic

Besides returning to SLC maybe with a A220, I think AC has YYZ pretty well covered.

Didn't they just drop OMA?


Pure AC mainline? SLC, SAT, and then things thin out to maybe SMF (long and thin), JAX (probably more likely Express), and SRQ (more likely Rouge)

As far as AC Express: CHS, MSN, SDF, GRR, ORF, RIC, PWM, GSP, and OKC to varying degrees could be attractive


Seasonal ABQ or SAF may be interesting. Presumably mostly leisure travel.
 
alo2yyz
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:55 am

Skywatcher wrote:
I detect a lot of East (AC)/West (WS/CP) antipathy in this thread. Sad really.

Getting back to the original topic-I for one am happy to have a non-stop YUL-BNA option available. Despite the LGA transfer hassle I enjoyed my last trip to BNA a couple of years ago and this service makes a return more likely.

The other two announcements (YYC-BOS & YVR-EWR) also make a lot of sense.

If you take out all the nasty regional bias all of these services offer more choices for consumers which is of more importance to me.


BNA is a good add - it effectively cuts travel time between the two in half - much more attractive for short visits.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:59 am

Dominion301 wrote:
I’d like to get back on topic. Who thinks both AC and WS will be able to coexist on YYC-BOS?

Personally I do in summer.


I think so too. AC had to have known WS would also jump on the route prior to announcing this.
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3214
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:28 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
I’d like to get back on topic. Who thinks both AC and WS will be able to coexist on YYC-BOS?

Personally I do in summer.


I think so too. AC had to have known WS would also jump on the route prior to announcing this.


Does anyone have recent data on BOS-Western Canada O+D. Obviously YVR is big in summer due to cruise base for Alaska but are people jumping on Canadian Rockies tours? Many start in YYC and end in YVR.

I do see potential with YYC/Western Canada point of sale based on the average Canadian's travel habits.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2977
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:46 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
hollywoodcory wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
I’d like to get back on topic. Who thinks both AC and WS will be able to coexist on YYC-BOS?

Personally I do in summer.


I think so too. AC had to have known WS would also jump on the route prior to announcing this.


Does anyone have recent data on BOS-Western Canada O+D. Obviously YVR is big in summer due to cruise base for Alaska but are people jumping on Canadian Rockies tours? Many start in YYC and end in YVR.

I do see potential with YYC/Western Canada point of sale based on the average Canadian's travel habits.


It's not recent, but its better than nothing.

2016 O&D data, according to StatsCan.

YYC-BOS - 37,569
YVR-BOS - 78,441
YEG-BOS - 16,173
YYJ-BOS - 6,117

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2310025601
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:37 pm

alo2yyz wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
I detect a lot of East (AC)/West (WS/CP) antipathy in this thread. Sad really.

Getting back to the original topic-I for one am happy to have a non-stop YUL-BNA option available. Despite the LGA transfer hassle I enjoyed my last trip to BNA a couple of years ago and this service makes a return more likely.

The other two announcements (YYC-BOS & YVR-EWR) also make a lot of sense.

If you take out all the nasty regional bias all of these services offer more choices for consumers which is of more importance to me.


BNA is a good add - it effectively cuts travel time between the two in half - much more attractive for short visits.


What about from YHZ-BNA to bypass YUL from the Maritimes? Likely on the A220 or E190. The center of country music in Canada is near Halifax.
 
Dominion301
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
alo2yyz wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
I detect a lot of East (AC)/West (WS/CP) antipathy in this thread. Sad really.

Getting back to the original topic-I for one am happy to have a non-stop YUL-BNA option available. Despite the LGA transfer hassle I enjoyed my last trip to BNA a couple of years ago and this service makes a return more likely.

The other two announcements (YYC-BOS & YVR-EWR) also make a lot of sense.

If you take out all the nasty regional bias all of these services offer more choices for consumers which is of more importance to me.


BNA is a good add - it effectively cuts travel time between the two in half - much more attractive for short visits.


What about from YHZ-BNA to bypass YUL from the Maritimes? Likely on the A220 or E190. The center of country music in Canada is near Halifax.


It is? I always thought it was Alberta and to a lesser extent the Ottawa Valley.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:59 pm

Lol.

AC is cutting YVR-MEL in northern summer season. Guess we know who was wrong and who was right in the whole debate about BNE and MEL.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
RobertS975
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:22 pm

The BOS-YYC flight on WS will be a B737. IIRC, the gate A-1 that WS uses at Logan might not be a fit for the B737. Some gate shuffling may be needed at that busy time of day (5-6PM).
 
9252fly
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:38 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Lol.

AC is cutting YVR-MEL in northern summer season. Guess we know who was wrong and who was right in the whole debate about BNE and MEL.


MEL was the newest and weakest of the 3 Australia destinations. I believe the frequency was 3 per week and with the fires that Australia experienced recently, it's no surprise that forward bookings likely fell. It will be worth watching to see if the route returns for the northern 2020/2021 winter season.
 
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keesje
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Re: Air Canada Announce Summer Seasonal YUL-BNA, YYC-BOS & More YVR-EWR

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pm

Air Canada selected the 737 MAX years ago for their future NB fleet.
By opportunistic buys of used AirFrance, WoW, AirTransat, Rouge
and a few direct top up CEO's, they quietly build a fleet of 43 A321s now.
Sneaky's.
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