KFTG
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1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:38 am

Back in the day, Air Canada seemed to fly their CRJ-100/200s (pre-Jazz?) to a variety of US cities ranging in size from ORD, MSP, CLE, MCI, CLT to even ORF if memory serves. Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the destinations served? The Wikipedia article for Air Canada destinations has a number of terminated destinations, and I believe some of those include routes flown with the CRJ-100/200. Did these flights us an "Air Canada" callsign, flown by mainline pilots?

 
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northstardc4m
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:11 am

KFTG wrote:
Back in the day, Air Canada seemed to fly their CRJ-100/200s (pre-Jazz?) to a variety of US cities ranging in size from ORD, MSP, CLE, MCI, CLT to even ORF if memory serves. Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the destinations served? The Wikipedia article for Air Canada destinations has a number of terminated destinations, and I believe some of those include routes flown with the CRJ-100/200. Did these flights us an "Air Canada" callsign, flown by mainline pilots?

They did fly with mainline pilots and Air Canada callsigns.

At one point every AC3xx flight was started with CL65 equipment (what Air Canada called CRJ100s, AC proper never had CRJ200s). This included larger destinations like ATL and PHL. The off hand others I remember you don't list are STL, MKE and DCA and I want to say BNA but that might of been a Jazz started one... others I want to say are SAV, CHS and OMA. I don't know of a definite list no... They swapped routes to and from DC9s as well often to confuse things a bit more.

YYZ-CLE though was an Air Ontario route for ages with Dash 8 (and CV580 before that) equipment.

With the CDN merger things got even more fuzzy with routes swapped to F28s, and vice versa, and all the flight numbers got scambled.

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Last edited by northstardc4m on Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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dr1980
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 am

I’m curious about how CRJ’s ended up in the mainline fleet vs Jazz initially, and how they ultimately ended up in the Express fleets. It’s certainly unusual to see mainline CRJ’s.
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DL717
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:29 am

Going to be a tough find. Looked on Departed Flights and they only have 1985. You could go through the OAGs on the site though. Probably take a ridiculous amount of time though.
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northstardc4m
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:32 am

dr1980 wrote:
I’m curious about how CRJ’s ended up in the mainline fleet vs Jazz initially, and how they ultimately ended up in the Express fleets. It’s certainly unusual to see mainline CRJ’s.
AC bought the CL65 as the "open skies buster" under Hollis Harris... To open US bound routes when the US-Canada open skies agreement went into effect in the late 90s.

Jazz didn't exist yet, it was still Air Nova, Air Alliance, Air Ontario and Air BC... Air Nova and Air BC had 146s but we're limited on routes they could operate, Air Ontario didn't want to operate jets after the F28 disaster... Air Alliance was always the unwanted stepchild it seemed like and ended up being merged into Air Nova.

AC kept the union happy flying the CRJ themselves and made it work though it was a different competition era in Canada. It also let them move a number of domestic routes down to the CRJ like YYZ-YQT, YQB, YFC, YSJ and YYG.

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longhauler
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:45 am

The CL-65 was in the mainline fleet, as dictated by the pilot contract scope clause. Instead of seat numbers or weight, it was Jets vs. Props. There was leeway however, as both Air Nova and Air BC were operating the BAe-146 at the time.

Future scope clauses at AC, changed to the present certified seat number method .... again with recognition of the numbers of 146s in the fleet.

Hollis Harris correctly predicted that some passengers will pay a premium to overfly hubs in the US to secondary sized cities from YYZ and YUL. At its peak, the CL-65 operation was impressive and very profitable.

That passenger all but disappeared after September 11th.

The merger with CP and fleet/route rationalization resulted in the formation of Jazz ... after merging in Canadian Regional Airlines. The BAe-146s were retired, as were the F-28s of CRA, and the CRJ series eventually all ended up at Jazz. (With the original numbers of CRJ705s matching the numbers of 146s).
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northstardc4m
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:28 am

Ok so from the June 3 2000 AC timetable ( pre CDN integration but post takeover) these are the Transborder CRJ routes:

YYZ to MCI, IAD, STL, MKE, BNA, PIT, cLE, MSP
YUL to PHL, BOS, DCA, IAD
YOW to LGA, ORD, DCA, RDU, BOS
YWG to ORD
YHZ to IAD, EWR

And October 30 1994 timetable when they were brand new:
YOW-EWR
YUL-BOS
YHZ-BOS

And from other timetables 1995-1999 a few not listed in 2000:

YYZ-CLT ,DCA, RDU, oRD, CVG, ATL, PHL
YUL-EWR


That's all I can find. I do not see ORF but it may of been after 2000.


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Dominion301
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:24 am

northstardc4m wrote:
Ok so from the June 3 2000 AC timetable ( pre CDN integration but post takeover) these are the Transborder CRJ routes:

YYZ to MCI, IAD, STL, MKE, BNA, PIT, cLE, MSP
YUL to PHL, BOS, DCA, IAD
YOW to LGA, ORD, DCA, RDU, BOS
YWG to ORD
YHZ to IAD, EWR

And October 30 1994 timetable when they were brand new:
YOW-EWR
YUL-BOS
YHZ-BOS

And from other timetables 1995-1999 a few not listed in 2000:

YYZ-CLT ,DCA, RDU, oRD, CVG, ATL, PHL
YUL-EWR


That's all I can find. I do not see ORF but it may of been after 2000.


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Domestically, in addition to what’s listed, they were definitely used on Rapidair at certain times of the day or to say replace a weekday DC-9 on weekends.

YOW-IAD was another one before AC handed that route over to UA...at the peak of the tech boom 1 of the 4 daily was even on a 319!
 
airzona11
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:27 am

Wow great information in this thread that I never knew. Always interesting to learn about the number of flights/variety of flights pre9-11.
 
departedflights
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:09 am

For a little additional information, this is a list of all of the routes flown by Air Canada CRJ's effective December 1, 2000:

Boston-Montreal
Boston-Ottawa
Chicago O'Hare-Ottawa
Chicago O'Hare-Winnipeg
Cleveland-Toronto
Kansas City-Toronto
Milwaukee-Toronto
Montreal-Ottawa
Nashville-Toronto
Newark-Halifax
New York LaGuardia-Ottawa
Ottawa-Halifax
Philadelpia-Montreal
Pittsburgh-Toronto
Raleigh/Durham-Ottawa
Saint Louis-Toronto
Toronto-Ottawa
Toronto-Montreal
Washington Dulles-Halifax
Washington Dulles-Montreal
Washington Dulles-Ottawa
Washington Dulles-Toronto
Washington Natonal-Montrea
lWashington National-Ottawa
 
KFTG
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:10 am

Actually I think Air Canada ORF service was announced but never started. If memory serves it was because of 9/11.
 
bluecrew
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Re: 1990s/Early-2000s Air Canada CRJ Operation

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:53 am

dr1980 wrote:
I’m curious about how CRJ’s ended up in the mainline fleet vs Jazz initially, and how they ultimately ended up in the Express fleets. It’s certainly unusual to see mainline CRJ’s.

A different era... and an error by the union not imposing a scope clause. Those became more prevalent in the mid to late-2000's with the increased farming out of flying to lower-cost regionals. If only they knew... apparently running a regional is higher marginal cost than mainline.

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