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Yinrenao2001
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:55 am

Image
you must know that ,especially the A350, if this plane coming without the "mask" you mentioned, it can be very ugly......and silliness :D
the A32X neo series and A330neo have the option to choose whether put the mask on or not, but if you buy an A350, you must have it .
 
crashlander
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:20 am

johns624 wrote:
Some people sure do throw around the exaggerated adjectives..."hideous". Really???


I truly believe "hideous" is an understatement.

Man, the A350's face is so ugly it actually hurts the eyes---my eye doctor confirmed he's had to deal with a few cases already, besides me.
 
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zeke
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:28 am

F27500 wrote:
The cockpit windows wearing that new black paint design makes it look like the planes are wearing a Lone Ranger mask. Whats the reason for that silliness? I see it on the A320 series, 330 and 350. And can airlines opt out of that if they don't want it?


Black supposedly helps make fat things look skinnier. Personally I don’t think it helps, the wife has an abundance of black undergarments and it doesn’t help.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Yinrenao2001
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:37 am

crashlander wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Some people sure do throw around the exaggerated adjectives..."hideous". Really???


I truly believe "hideous" is an understatement.

Man, the A350's face is so ugly it actually hurts the eyes---my eye doctor confirmed he's had to deal with a few cases already, besides me.


Image
agreed.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:46 am

Draken21fx wrote:
scbriml wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Wait, isn't it "Airbii"?


The plural of bus is buses - “Look at those two green buses over there.” As opposed to “Look at those two green bii over there.”

The plural of Airbus is Airbuses while the possessive is Airbus’s


Isnt it Airbus' (without the s)?

Also it has been explained with facts as to why it was implemented. It is not a marketing gimmick.


Wait... has it? The window swap explanation or the anti glare explanation?

The window swap one doesn't really make sense... with the vast preponderance of white-fuselage liveries, surely you'd just go for the white. And if an airline needs to swap out windows, the carrier would be stocked with the correct coloured parts in advance... no? Except for the rare occasion when they rely on other airlines but, again, the vast majority are white.

And if that was true you'd have it on every Airbus aircraft being pumped out. But either it's not such a big issue or it's not a fact, ie. not true, because we're seeing it on only a few carriers for non 350s and it's not being replicated on existing fleets.

Boeing relented on the 787 engine nacelle colour after initially saying it had to be white for laminar flow or some such. Clearly airlines weren't keen on that.

Far more likely is aesthetic reasons with subsequent ambiguity and half-explanations of glare and logistical cost savings etc. Fudge it to make up for one a pretty unappealing cockpit window design. Which is ultimately a marketing explanation.
 
SEU
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:08 am

I've been told its to help with Sun glare, whether that's true or not I dont know. There must be a reason for it otherwise they wouldnt do it.
 
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stl07
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbii ?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:49 am

scbriml wrote:
Lone Ranger mask?!?!? :spit:

It's a raccoon mask!

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
That's what I thought at first glance as well
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F27500
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:48 pm

zeke wrote:
F27500 wrote:
The cockpit windows wearing that new black paint design makes it look like the planes are wearing a Lone Ranger mask. Whats the reason for that silliness? I see it on the A320 series, 330 and 350. And can airlines opt out of that if they don't want it?


Black supposedly helps make fat things look skinnier. Personally I don’t think it helps, the wife has an abundance of black undergarments and it doesn’t help.


LMAO!! .. No he ^^ diiiiiiidn't !!

You win best answer, by the way ... lol.
 
ewt340
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:28 pm

Because they've been stealing Boeing's market share recently.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:34 pm

trees wrote:
F27500 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Why "silliness"? That's your opinion.

I personally like it. Also, Air Canada used a similar set-up on their new livery; so, it must not be "that" silly", at least not to all.



Air Canada's version is far worse! Hideous.


I try not to get into discussions about liveries because people have different tastes, but AC’s “mask” is so horrendous I make an exception.


Could not agree more. AC makes their planes look like a drunk wearing sunglasses to cover his blood-shot eyes.

Terrible look for an airplane.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:02 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
Isnt it Airbus' (without the s)?


I believe both forms are grammatically acceptable.
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crimsonchin
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:30 pm

crashlander wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Some people sure do throw around the exaggerated adjectives..."hideous". Really???


I truly believe "hideous" is an understatement.

Man, the A350's face is so ugly it actually hurts the eyes---my eye doctor confirmed he's had to deal with a few cases already, besides me.


Hopefully this is sarcasm, or are you 5?
 
KLAXWOLF
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:00 pm

F27500 wrote:
The cockpit windows wearing that new black paint design makes it look like the planes are wearing a Lone Ranger mask. Whats the reason for that silliness? I see it on the A320 series, 330 and 350. And can airlines opt out of that if they don't want it?


The black color helps to reduce maintenance costs. When replacing a cockpit window, chipping is a problem at the edges. They can be painted over more easily with the universal black than if you have to find the exact color of the fuselage of the airline every time. The border also helps to compensate for temperature differences. This reduces the forces on the panes. Cracks are less common.
 
OccupiedLav
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:08 pm

The A350 has the mask because the cockpit windows look absolutely hideous without it, no matter what far fetched technical excuse Airbus gives. It fits the A350, but not the 330 or 320 in my opinion. I don't think the cockpit windows on the A320 or A330 fit with the rounded mask.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:32 pm

I prefer the A350 examples above without the raccoon mask to most A350s with the mask. IMO the cockpit windows look a little goofy from the side, but fine from the front.

To me, the raccoon mask makes it look like Airbus is trying to fool people into thinking there's just one big piece of glass.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:36 pm

Airbus’ attempt at making a stealth jet? ;)
 
SimProgrammer
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:36 pm

When I worked at Airbus, I never heard the plural Airbii in any official use.
Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
 
Peterwk146
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:46 pm

As Airbus is a name, there's no plurals of it.
Also, something that gets me is people saying aircrafts because it's wrong as aircraft is both a singular and plural noun. Same applies to equipment - there's no such thing as equipments in English.
 
checklist350
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:15 am

This is a hilarious thread. I never paid much attention to the raccoon mask but seeing them side by side now I do think I prefer without the mask.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:20 am

The official reason has been given in the first page, it's to equalize the temperature of the curved glass.

True or not, I don't know. Personally I don't find anything wrong with the design of the windows, without mask.

What is true is that in early A350XWB marketing, the aircraft seemed to sport a single piece windshield, or maybe 2 large wraparound windows, which in the end didn't make it (just like the 787's shark fin).

As an aside, many people on this website seem to be in love with the hunchback of the skies aka the 747, so I don't mind being in the minority.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:59 am

It is ugly!
 
T4thH
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:08 am

fraport wrote:
I wonder what Airbus would say if Airline XYZ came and said: "OK, I'll take 50 A350s, but without the mask. Paint that silly thing anywhere you want, but not on my aircraft."
To be honest, I hoped at least one airline would do that. But since there is not a single one out there without the mask, there might be more to it than marketing.
Anyway, count me to the group that finds it ugly and rather childish. The next logical step would be painting flames on the rear of the engine cowlings :roll:


If I remember correctly, one airline has ordered them without and Airbus has delivered them as requested; but who was it... I have read it somewhere in the last year...

Let see if I can find it again.

Edit: I have just checked, seems I have remembered wrong.
Last edited by T4thH on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
gadFly
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:30 am

I kind of like it. It makes me feel nostlagic for SR and SAA...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _747SP.jpg
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:47 am

Yinrenao2001 wrote:
Image
you must know that ,especially the A350, if this plane coming without the "mask" you mentioned, it can be very ugly......and silliness :D
the A32X neo series and A330neo have the option to choose whether put the mask on or not, but if you buy an A350, you must have it .

Actually, on this photo, it kinda looks like the space shuttle; which is pretty cool
 
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zeke
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:12 am

Aesma wrote:

What is true is that in early A350XWB marketing, the aircraft seemed to sport a single piece windshield, or maybe 2 large wraparound windows, which in the end didn't make it (just like the 787's shark fin).


I don’t think that is true, on the early renderings it had narrow frames between the windows. Window design itself is more of a detail rather than something that set from concept stage. The window detail design for shape have minimum requirements that are derived from anthropometric analysis once the cockpit seating is known.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:04 am

Eagleboy wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
Isn't the black paint also partly to help reduce glare / sun reflection into the cockpit?

Nope. Then why put it around the window?

The A350 mask is to allow easy swops of the curved cockpit windows without the need to repaint the frame.
Aibus decided to carry on the look on the A330neo. (which doesnt need it for replacing the windows)

Back in the 50s and 60s there was often a black area in front of the cockpit, which was there to reduce glare. Look back at old photos of B707/B747/B52/B47 etc.
The KC-135 tankers still keep this black paint. As those Westjet on their livery.


I never worked on the A350, but it would surprise me that paint is the reason. I did several windshield replacements but never had to worry about painting, although sealant was applied.
In any case, anybody who works in mx knows how to paint and sealant has to dry/cure too anyway, so I doubt that that is a consideration at all.

The A350 nose just looks hideous without it and some guy at Airbus' paintshop found a solution for it, he just gave it a mascara, nothing more than that.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:21 am

Why? Because it looks really cool. And it’s very distinctive. And it helps stop cockpit glare. And it looks really cool. Oh, I said that.
come visit the south pacific
 
Peterwk146
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:11 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Eagleboy wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
Isn't the black paint also partly to help reduce glare / sun reflection into the cockpit?

Nope. Then why put it around the window?

The A350 mask is to allow easy swops of the curved cockpit windows without the need to repaint the frame.
Aibus decided to carry on the look on the A330neo. (which doesnt need it for replacing the windows)

Back in the 50s and 60s there was often a black area in front of the cockpit, which was there to reduce glare. Look back at old photos of B707/B747/B52/B47 etc.
The KC-135 tankers still keep this black paint. As those Westjet on their livery.


I never worked on the A350, but it would surprise me that paint is the reason. I did several windshield replacements but never had to worry about painting, although sealant was applied.
In any case, anybody who works in mx knows how to paint and sealant has to dry/cure too anyway, so I doubt that that is a consideration at all.

The A350 nose just looks hideous without it and some guy at Airbus' paintshop found a solution for it, he just gave it a mascara, nothing more than that.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I like the look of the nose. However, I agree with most of the posters on this topic that it's not needed and IMHO detracts from the overall beauty of the aircraft.

I believe that the decision for the mask around the cockpit windows was one from the marketing department.
 
Stickpusher
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbii ?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:43 pm

leleko747 wrote:
You talk about silliness, yet you use "Airbii" as the plural of "Airbus"... :vomit: .


It's quite possible that I'm responsible for that. I coined it nearly 20 years ago when I was briefly involved with the Flight Simulator group Project AI, when going through a phase of interest in FS.

You might not like it, and it isn't the correct word in any way, but I chose to use it because the plural noun of hippopotamus is actually hippopotami (look it up if you doubt) and I got a laugh out of misusing language in that way. I even had a similar discussion at the time, from someone that took exception to a bit of light banter.

Say what you like about it, but it's a language joke from someone quite familiar with the rules. I studied Latin back at my secondary school because, at that time, Latin had ten years previously stopped being a requirement to get into an Oxbridge university and the school hadn't got around to removing it from their curriculum (I certainly wouldn't have picked it as a subject, but it has been useful over the years). I've gone on to write books, some using that Latin, and finally decided to study and graduate in Linguistics about 6 years ago - when the Latin came in extremely useful for etymological research.

One thing I did learn from my long involvement with languages, as an author and researcher in my time, was that the most powerful part of it is in a sense the human component. People use "accommodation" all the time to make sense of the irregularities they hear in their daily lives, and it's one of the things that helps English spread as easily as it does. People misusing words, or getting the word wrong but the tense right ("my father was a goldfish" - oh, she means "my father had a goldfish" - and yes, that's a real one I heard a long time ago) are all things we can accommodate due to our own understanding of context. It means non-native speakers can very easily be understood provided the listener's skills are also up to it.

"Airbii" is a joke, it raises a smile *because* people know it's probably wrong, but it's goofy anyway. It then raises the question of whether it is sillier to make the joke than it is to take up arms against it.

I note from your sig that you are for whatever reason really concerned about how other people use language. I learned in my linguistics work that it really doesn't pay to obsess about such things because you just end up spending your life getting annoyed with other people for trivial reasons. We can't police how other people choose to interact, and it's really just a waste of life campaigning for rightwordiness (oops, there I go again). When a language goes offshore, it ceases to be the property of the original "owner", and English is now "Englishes", and why should Latin not suffer in the same way!? Similarly, people get upset about things such as emojis with no real reason - they exist because we write more these days than we used to, and we sometimes need to inject non-verbal phatic communication back into our "speech" just to let someone know that a straight sentence is supposed to be read in jest, and previously we'd use an expression to do that. Love them or loathe them, emojis are a legitimate evolution of language that follows a change in human behaviour.

Languages were only "fixed" by the dictionarians because they needed a way to reliably transmit information using a standard - it's why the first English dictionaries were based on the language spoken in Oxford, Cambridge, and London, where all the learning and research was being done, and was why dialect was fated to wither (not completely) away to be replaced by standard English. It was a phase. Now dictionaries follow language, because language is what evolves as do the standards that surround it. Objections to "Airbii" give me almost as much pleasure as the original abuse of language.

But back to the raccoon mask, I'd heard (as already mentioned) that the thermal conditions were a driver of the decision, getting the area around the joints to be heated uniformly rather than have a reflective surface expand less while the adjacent dark surface soaks up the heat and expands at a different rate. The experiences of engineers on older designs might bring forward some useful stories about whether the cockpit windows were problematic and whether it had anything to do with heating if they were.
 
Stickpusher
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:56 pm

zeke wrote:
Aesma wrote:

What is true is that in early A350XWB marketing, the aircraft seemed to sport a single piece windshield, or maybe 2 large wraparound windows, which in the end didn't make it (just like the 787's shark fin).


I don’t think that is true, on the early renderings it had narrow frames between the windows. Window design itself is more of a detail rather than something that set from concept stage. The window detail design for shape have minimum requirements that are derived from anthropometric analysis once the cockpit seating is known.


Well, if as Airbus says, the use of larger and curved components for the first time was in the A350, then they have a whole new engineering consideration to take into account regarding the expansion of these different surfaces that now expand in 3 dimensions (referring here to the implicit extra "thickness" that a curved surface creates) over a greater distance.

Laying a wooden floor over a large enough area means interrupting the surface every now and then with expansion joints usually covered by a low strip to hide the gap. Over short distances the expansion can be accommodated without this, but the cumulative expansion is what causes a potential problem. I would imagine that with a curved surface larger than previously engineered, over a pressurised vessel, where the expansion is not just shearing past each other like a faultline but outward from the surface at some points, really does need some serious temperature management. I'm no structural engineer, so I'm unaware of whether there are technical solutions, but I would bet the mask was the most cost effective way to get the variables under some semblance of control.

Surely the airworthiness tests would make mention of it, if it was a structurally necessary safety feature?
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:19 pm

I guess I'm used to seeing it on the A350, but for me it still looks funny on the A320 and A330.

I know it's not an option on the A350, but is this also the case with the A330 neo? It would appear every airline that has taken an A330 neo so far has the mask.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
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flee
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Re: Why the Lone Ranger mask on the new Airbus'?

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:24 pm

vhqpa wrote:
I guess I'm used to seeing it on the A350, but for me it still looks funny on the A320 and A330.

ATR 72-600s have them too!

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