Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
lightsaber wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
I put a star next to the frames I think will leave, add A321NEO. No huge surprises.
Lightsaber
lightsaber wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
I put a star next to the frames I think will leave, add A321NEO. No huge surprises.
Lightsaber
BNAMealer wrote:lightsaber wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
I put a star next to the frames I think will leave, add A321NEO. No huge surprises.
Lightsaber
What will replace the 77E and the A330ceo fleet?
Prost wrote:Lightsaber’s list only shows 7 fleets, so there’s room for one more. NMA? 787?
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I think some of that regarding fleet simplification as discussed on the investor day presentation was a bit of a softball response.
After all, they are highlight strategy and vision that they've already started to execute.
The decisions were already in motion to sunset the MD-88 and MD-90 fleet types.
The 757 and 767s are entering the twilight of their career
717s are gone in a decade (or less)
A330 CEOs, actually they have another decade, they will just turn into what the 767 fleet is today. Far too big a captial investment at this time to consider replacement, considering they have a lot to do in terms of addressing the 757 and 767 fleets.
A319 / A320 will just retire out organically as they age-out.
A lot of these simplifications were going to happen anyways over the next decade as many of the legacy fleet types reach their retirements.
Pudelhund wrote:BNAMealer wrote:lightsaber wrote:Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
I put a star next to the frames I think will leave, add A321NEO. No huge surprises.
Lightsaber
What will replace the 77E and the A330ceo fleet?
A359 and A339 presumably. They might be interested in the 787 as well, but that would go against the whole simplification idea.
janders wrote:Presentation can be downloaded directly instead of abbreviated 8K version:
https://s2.q4cdn.com/181345880/files/do ... tation.pdf
Sightseer wrote:I wonder how long a timeframe they're thinking when discussing going from 13 to 8. This list mostly makes sense in the long run (~20 years, once the HGW A333s are gone), but it does leave a 767-sized hole in the widebody fleet.
lightsaber wrote:Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
I put a star next to the frames I think will leave, add A321NEO. No huge surprises.
Lightsaber
MIflyer12 wrote:The 8K isn't abbreviated - in fact it has 25+ extra pages.
MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
jagraham wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
I can't find anything on the hubs / focus cities. Can you tell me where in which document the yoy revenue growth vis hubs and focus cities is?
ScottB wrote:lightsaber wrote:Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
I put a star next to the frames I think will leave, add A321NEO. No huge surprises.
Lightsaber
The OP mentions 13 fleet families in 2020 so I suspect they are counting the 77Es and 77Ls as a single fleet family; the A321neos start to arrive in 2020.
I think you're right about the MD-88, MD-90, 757, and 767 fleets departing, but I think the fifth fleet to go is the 717. They have an obvious replacement with the A221/A223 and the vast majority of the 717 fleet is leased. And as we have seen with the MD-88 and MD-90 fleets, the small size of the global 717 fleet will make spare parts more costly as these aircraft enter their third decade. That said, DL would have some leverage with Boeing and lessors to keep the 717s flying; while they are leasing most of their 717 fleet from WN, those subleases would likely have expirations connected to WN's leases, and IIRC Boeing Capital is the lessor for many of those 717s. Obviously it depends on the amount of lease cash flow measured against the cost of maintaining vendor support.
But in the timeframe that 757s, 767s, and 717s would exit the fleet, I think there's an obvious need for something else to fill the gap between the A321neo and the A332. I wouldn't be surprised to see whatever Boeing proposes next (NMA? 737MAX/757 replacement?) in there. That'd probably come in as the 777s exit.
TTailedTiger wrote:ScottB wrote:lightsaber wrote:Going from 13 to 8 fleet types is Wise:
Current types:
A220
A320 CEO
*A330 CEO
A330 NEO
A350
717
737NG
*757
*767
*777-200ER (RR Engines)
777-200LR (GE engines)
*MD-88
*MD-90
jagraham wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
I can't find anything on the hubs / focus cities. Can you tell me where in which document the yoy revenue growth vis hubs and focus cities is?
AirFiero wrote:jagraham wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Select the '8-K, Current Report Filing' from the available choices. https://ir.delta.com/financials/default.aspx#sec
This is the first time I recall DL talking about fleet simplification as a goal: Reduce complexity with fewer aircraft types. From 13 (2020 estimate) to 8 fleet families by some unspecified future date.
Year-over-year revenue growth:
9% core hubs
10% coastal hubs
14% focus cities
domestic systemwide 8% vs. 4% for industry
Dumping an early $500 million into the pension plan this month/qtr. (The Feds don't mandate any contributions this year but the plan is still under-funded.)
Projecting after-tax ROIC of 15% this year vs. 11% in 2010. (IIRC, Southwest routinely beats that.)
Core Cap-Ex spending of $4.5 Billion in 2020 comparable to 2019. Expecting ~80 new aircraft deliveries.
I can't find anything on the hubs / focus cities. Can you tell me where in which document the yoy revenue growth vis hubs and focus cities is?
On the subject of focus cities, I asked this question in another thread but answers may have been moderated out - has there been any actual growth at any of the focus cities since the announcement? If the largest percentage of revenue growth is expected to be in this area, I’d presume we’d see more flights, new routes or at least additional frequencies and/or upguaging.
BNAMealer wrote:AirFiero wrote:jagraham wrote:
I can't find anything on the hubs / focus cities. Can you tell me where in which document the yoy revenue growth vis hubs and focus cities is?
On the subject of focus cities, I asked this question in another thread but answers may have been moderated out - has there been any actual growth at any of the focus cities since the announcement? If the largest percentage of revenue growth is expected to be in this area, I’d presume we’d see more flights, new routes or at least additional frequencies and/or upguaging.
Other than some upgauging and some hub frequency increases, I don’t think so, unless you count KL adding AUS as growth.
Not really understanding the strategy here.
TTailedTiger wrote:Yeah I don't think the pilots will allow 767's to be replaced by the A321. They are pretty firm when it comes to widebody replacement.
goboeing wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:Yeah I don't think the pilots will allow 767's to be replaced by the A321. They are pretty firm when it comes to widebody replacement.
Not sure what you mean by this.
Firm on what?
The pilots fly the planes that are ordered by the company.
The contract spells out pay rates and which fleets are separated into different pay categories and which ones are lumped together.
Now that three decades of engine technology can provide the same lift for more than 20% less fuel burn, the 757/767 is showing it's age at all carriers around the world,
The 321NEO even beats the 321CEO by something around 20%, so just imagine what it is compared to the 757-200. It's been an awesome airplane for a long time but the writing is on the wall.
It'll be logical for the average segment length of the 757 fleet to gradually decrease over the next few years as the 321 fleet continues to grow.
Like someone mentioned above, I would not be surprised if the 321XLR is ordered to some extent as the 797 is obviously not even a 'paper airplane' yet.
TTailedTiger wrote:goboeing wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:Yeah I don't think the pilots will allow 767's to be replaced by the A321. They are pretty firm when it comes to widebody replacement.
Not sure what you mean by this.
Firm on what?
The pilots fly the planes that are ordered by the company.
The contract spells out pay rates and which fleets are separated into different pay categories and which ones are lumped together.
Now that three decades of engine technology can provide the same lift for more than 20% less fuel burn, the 757/767 is showing it's age at all carriers around the world,
The 321NEO even beats the 321CEO by something around 20%, so just imagine what it is compared to the 757-200. It's been an awesome airplane for a long time but the writing is on the wall.
It'll be logical for the average segment length of the 757 fleet to gradually decrease over the next few years as the 321 fleet continues to grow.
Like someone mentioned above, I would not be surprised if the 321XLR is ordered to some extent as the 797 is obviously not even a 'paper airplane' yet.
What are you not understanding? The pilots are not going to let planes with a higher pay rate go away and be replaced by something with a lesser pay rate. And Delta isn't going to pay widebody wages for a narrowbody plane that can't accommodate nearly as many passengers. Widebodies create upward mobility on the seniority list. It's one of the reasons United's pilots have held firm on not allowing more international flying to be done by partners. They know it will mean fewer widebody positions.
alasizon wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:goboeing wrote:
Not sure what you mean by this.
Firm on what?
The pilots fly the planes that are ordered by the company.
The contract spells out pay rates and which fleets are separated into different pay categories and which ones are lumped together.
Now that three decades of engine technology can provide the same lift for more than 20% less fuel burn, the 757/767 is showing it's age at all carriers around the world,
The 321NEO even beats the 321CEO by something around 20%, so just imagine what it is compared to the 757-200. It's been an awesome airplane for a long time but the writing is on the wall.
It'll be logical for the average segment length of the 757 fleet to gradually decrease over the next few years as the 321 fleet continues to grow.
Like someone mentioned above, I would not be surprised if the 321XLR is ordered to some extent as the 797 is obviously not even a 'paper airplane' yet.
What are you not understanding? The pilots are not going to let planes with a higher pay rate go away and be replaced by something with a lesser pay rate. And Delta isn't going to pay widebody wages for a narrowbody plane that can't accommodate nearly as many passengers. Widebodies create upward mobility on the seniority list. It's one of the reasons United's pilots have held firm on not allowing more international flying to be done by partners. They know it will mean fewer widebody positions.
DL's pilots have zero control over what aircraft the company orders. If DL supplies the pilots with 30 321s, the pilots have to fly them.
alasizon wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:goboeing wrote:
Not sure what you mean by this.
Firm on what?
The pilots fly the planes that are ordered by the company.
The contract spells out pay rates and which fleets are separated into different pay categories and which ones are lumped together.
Now that three decades of engine technology can provide the same lift for more than 20% less fuel burn, the 757/767 is showing it's age at all carriers around the world,
The 321NEO even beats the 321CEO by something around 20%, so just imagine what it is compared to the 757-200. It's been an awesome airplane for a long time but the writing is on the wall.
It'll be logical for the average segment length of the 757 fleet to gradually decrease over the next few years as the 321 fleet continues to grow.
Like someone mentioned above, I would not be surprised if the 321XLR is ordered to some extent as the 797 is obviously not even a 'paper airplane' yet.
What are you not understanding? The pilots are not going to let planes with a higher pay rate go away and be replaced by something with a lesser pay rate. And Delta isn't going to pay widebody wages for a narrowbody plane that can't accommodate nearly as many passengers. Widebodies create upward mobility on the seniority list. It's one of the reasons United's pilots have held firm on not allowing more international flying to be done by partners. They know it will mean fewer widebody positions.
DL's pilots have zero control over what aircraft the company orders. If DL supplies the pilots with 30 321s, the pilots have to fly them.
JAMBOJET wrote:BNAMealer wrote:AirFiero wrote:
On the subject of focus cities, I asked this question in another thread but answers may have been moderated out - has there been any actual growth at any of the focus cities since the announcement? If the largest percentage of revenue growth is expected to be in this area, I’d presume we’d see more flights, new routes or at least additional frequencies and/or upguaging.
Other than some upgauging and some hub frequency increases, I don’t think so, unless you count KL adding AUS as growth.
Not really understanding the strategy here.
I think the strategy was hope that aa and ua don’t respond. The strongest of the big 3 in AUS already did respond. Delta is the weakest of the Big 3 in California, remains to be seen how SJC will work out.
Delta is strong in the NE (BOS focus city) and very strong in the SE (RDU focus city).
Going into AUS or SJC was always going to be tough given the complete lack of a strong presence anywhere nearby.
Now that AA responded in AUS, it’ll be interesting to see how Delta responds. Feels like a losing battle for Delta but they have plenty of cash to burn if they want.
goboeing wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:Yeah I don't think the pilots will allow 767's to be replaced by the A321. They are pretty firm when it comes to widebody replacement.
Not sure what you mean by this.
Firm on what?
The pilots fly the planes that are ordered by the company.
The contract spells out pay rates and which fleets are separated into different pay categories and which ones are lumped together.
Now that three decades of engine technology can provide the same lift for more than 20% less fuel burn, the 757/767 is showing it's age at all carriers around the world,
The 321NEO even beats the 321CEO by something around 20%, so just imagine what it is compared to the 757-200. It's been an awesome airplane for a long time but the writing is on the wall.
It'll be logical for the average segment length of the 757 fleet to gradually decrease over the next few years as the 321 fleet continues to grow.
Like someone mentioned above, I would not be surprised if the 321XLR is ordered to some extent as the 797 is obviously not even a 'paper airplane' yet.
BNAMealer wrote:JAMBOJET wrote:BNAMealer wrote:
Other than some upgauging and some hub frequency increases, I don’t think so, unless you count KL adding AUS as growth.
Not really understanding the strategy here.
I think the strategy was hope that aa and ua don’t respond. The strongest of the big 3 in AUS already did respond. Delta is the weakest of the Big 3 in California, remains to be seen how SJC will work out.
Delta is strong in the NE (BOS focus city) and very strong in the SE (RDU focus city).
Going into AUS or SJC was always going to be tough given the complete lack of a strong presence anywhere nearby.
Now that AA responded in AUS, it’ll be interesting to see how Delta responds. Feels like a losing battle for Delta but they have plenty of cash to burn if they want.
DL could easily win the AUS battle if they want to, they just seem to have priorities elsewhere. However, due to the lack of a nearby strong presence, they are gonna have to build a small hub if they want to win, simply adding a few p2p routes isn’t gonna cut it. If they go that route, AA won’t be able to respond.
SJC is a waste of time with SFO right up the road.
alasizon wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:goboeing wrote:
Not sure what you mean by this.
Firm on what?
The pilots fly the planes that are ordered by the company.
The contract spells out pay rates and which fleets are separated into different pay categories and which ones are lumped together.
Now that three decades of engine technology can provide the same lift for more than 20% less fuel burn, the 757/767 is showing it's age at all carriers around the world,
The 321NEO even beats the 321CEO by something around 20%, so just imagine what it is compared to the 757-200. It's been an awesome airplane for a long time but the writing is on the wall.
It'll be logical for the average segment length of the 757 fleet to gradually decrease over the next few years as the 321 fleet continues to grow.
Like someone mentioned above, I would not be surprised if the 321XLR is ordered to some extent as the 797 is obviously not even a 'paper airplane' yet.
What are you not understanding? The pilots are not going to let planes with a higher pay rate go away and be replaced by something with a lesser pay rate. And Delta isn't going to pay widebody wages for a narrowbody plane that can't accommodate nearly as many passengers. Widebodies create upward mobility on the seniority list. It's one of the reasons United's pilots have held firm on not allowing more international flying to be done by partners. They know it will mean fewer widebody positions.
DL's pilots have zero control over what aircraft the company orders. If DL supplies the pilots with 30 321s, the pilots have to fly them.
bkflyguy wrote:I don't think they distinguish between ceo/neo for fleet families because most systems and components are the same. Also not clear is whether they are also counting regional planes.
CriticalPoint wrote:alasizon wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:
What are you not understanding? The pilots are not going to let planes with a higher pay rate go away and be replaced by something with a lesser pay rate. And Delta isn't going to pay widebody wages for a narrowbody plane that can't accommodate nearly as many passengers. Widebodies create upward mobility on the seniority list. It's one of the reasons United's pilots have held firm on not allowing more international flying to be done by partners. They know it will mean fewer widebody positions.
DL's pilots have zero control over what aircraft the company orders. If DL supplies the pilots with 30 321s, the pilots have to fly them.
That is not exactly true. Their Scope section has a section on joint ventures. There is a ratio of Widebody flying at DL vs Virgin/Korean/KLM/AF etc....In other words like TTail said they are protecting their highest paid flying.
Alias1024 wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I think some of that regarding fleet simplification as discussed on the investor day presentation was a bit of a softball response.
After all, they are highlight strategy and vision that they've already started to execute.
The decisions were already in motion to sunset the MD-88 and MD-90 fleet types.
The 757 and 767s are entering the twilight of their career
717s are gone in a decade (or less)
A330 CEOs, actually they have another decade, they will just turn into what the 767 fleet is today. Far too big a captial investment at this time to consider replacement, considering they have a lot to do in terms of addressing the 757 and 767 fleets.
A319 / A320 will just retire out organically as they age-out.
A lot of these simplifications were going to happen anyways over the next decade as many of the legacy fleet types reach their retirements.
Agreed. The A330 CEOs should still have plenty of life in them, especially given the commonality with the A330 NEOs that are joining the fleet. I actually wonder about the longevity of the 77L past the middle of the next decade.
The 77Es have probably seen their replacements already ordered in the form of the 10 deferred A350s. That leaves a 777 fleet of just 8 aircraft, with the capabilities of the 77L only really utilized fully on ATL-JNB and LAX-SYD. Perhaps the 77L might see an early exit in favor of more A350s (LATAM delivery slots?) since running a small fleet for those routes will be inefficient from a maintenance, pilot training, and pilot scheduling standpoint.
BNAMealer wrote:Pudelhund wrote:BNAMealer wrote:
What will replace the 77E and the A330ceo fleet?
A359 and A339 presumably. They might be interested in the 787 as well, but that would go against the whole simplification idea.
DL isn’t getting the 787 at this point, they’ve made it clear with their actions all of their eggs are in the A330/350 basket for now.
I expect an order for the A321XLR to replace the 757s soon.
BNAMealer wrote:JAMBOJET wrote:BNAMealer wrote:
Other than some upgauging and some hub frequency increases, I don’t think so, unless you count KL adding AUS as growth.
Not really understanding the strategy here.
I think the strategy was hope that aa and ua don’t respond. The strongest of the big 3 in AUS already did respond. Delta is the weakest of the Big 3 in California, remains to be seen how SJC will work out.
Delta is strong in the NE (BOS focus city) and very strong in the SE (RDU focus city).
Going into AUS or SJC was always going to be tough given the complete lack of a strong presence anywhere nearby.
Now that AA responded in AUS, it’ll be interesting to see how Delta responds. Feels like a losing battle for Delta but they have plenty of cash to burn if they want.
DL could easily win the AUS battle if they want to, they just seem to have priorities elsewhere. However, due to the lack of a nearby strong presence, they are gonna have to build a small hub if they want to win, simply adding a few p2p routes isn’t gonna cut it. If they go that route, AA won’t be able to respond.
SJC is a waste of time with SFO right up the road.
n7371f wrote:But the brakes on the 321NEO at DAL - at least as a trans-Atlantic option. Bastian specifically said today that the company does not buy into the belief that the "narrowbody" 321NEO is the right answer that AA and UA beleive it is. And in same span he talked about Boeing needing to launch the NMA.BNAMealer wrote:Pudelhund wrote:
A359 and A339 presumably. They might be interested in the 787 as well, but that would go against the whole simplification idea.
DL isn’t getting the 787 at this point, they’ve made it clear with their actions all of their eggs are in the A330/350 basket for now.
I expect an order for the A321XLR to replace the 757s soon.
bkflyguy wrote:
I don't think they distinguish between ceo/neo for fleet families because most systems and components are the same. Also not clear is whether they are also counting regional planes. Assuming no distinction between ceo/neo and including regional I came up with:
Current fleet families (13):
717
737NG (700/800/900ER)
757
767 (300ER/400)
777 (ER/LR)
A220 (200/300)
A320 (319/320/321)
A330 (200/300/900)
A350
MD88
MD90
E170/175
CRJ200/700/900
JAMBOJET wrote:I agree with your overall point that delta could build a mini hub, in theory, in aus and aa/UA wouldnt respond to that degree, but the reality is Aus isn’t big enough for a mini hub nor does delta have enough gates to build one unless they know about some new terminal project no one else Does.
AirFiero wrote:BNAMealer wrote:DL could easily win the AUS battle if they want to, they just seem to have priorities elsewhere. However, due to the lack of a nearby strong presence, they are gonna have to build a small hub if they want to win, simply adding a few p2p routes isn’t gonna cut it. If they go that route, AA won’t be able to respond.
SJC is a waste of time with SFO right up the road.
It depends on what DL has planned. DL isn’t exactly a powerhouse at SFO. They could move some frequencies to SJC, or even go big. Or...do nothing but press releases.
ifIHadWings wrote:The goal of only 8 aircraft types at some unknown future date is probably way in the future. But, if Delta does shed 5 aircraft types in the next 10+ years, I could see that being
CRJ
B-717
B-757
B-767
B-777
TTailedTiger wrote:alasizon wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:
What are you not understanding? The pilots are not going to let planes with a higher pay rate go away and be replaced by something with a lesser pay rate. And Delta isn't going to pay widebody wages for a narrowbody plane that can't accommodate nearly as many passengers. Widebodies create upward mobility on the seniority list. It's one of the reasons United's pilots have held firm on not allowing more international flying to be done by partners. They know it will mean fewer widebody positions.
DL's pilots have zero control over what aircraft the company orders. If DL supplies the pilots with 30 321s, the pilots have to fly them.
Obviously you don't remember the DL 777 debacle.
BNAMealer wrote:JAMBOJET wrote:I agree with your overall point that delta could build a mini hub, in theory, in aus and aa/UA wouldnt respond to that degree, but the reality is Aus isn’t big enough for a mini hub nor does delta have enough gates to build one unless they know about some new terminal project no one else Does.
They will be building a whole new concourse, doubling the amount of gates in the next decade. Beyond that, there is enough space where AUS could theoretically be built out to 150+ gates.
The whole focus city designation seems to be a PR stunt.
JAMBOJET wrote:Delta is the weakest of the Big 3 in California, remains to be seen how SJC will work out.
Going into AUS or SJC was always going to be tough given the complete lack of a strong presence anywhere nearby.
Now that AA responded in AUS, it’ll be interesting to see how Delta responds. Feels like a losing battle for Delta but they have plenty of cash to burn if they want.