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sunbus617
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3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:06 pm

Well we went way off topic on the AC North American expansion thread I thought we'd open a new thread where people can postulate on AC's achievements and short comings in the South Pacific market. For example, does SYD perform the best?
 
Ishrion
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:07 pm

Didn’t AC just launch YVR-AKL today?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:10 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Didn’t AC just launch YVR-AKL today?


Actually it was 12/12 and it's still in the air.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA051/232bc131
 
cedarjet
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:34 pm

I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
yyztpa2
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:41 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.


Both have similar population and Vancouver offers multiple onward destinations all over N America via AC. Proximity to Gold Coast makes Brisbane a desirable destination in itself
 
Noise
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:52 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.


Have you ever been to Brisbane? Not sure what you mean here; Brisbane is a very large city home to many large corporations. It's a definitely a global city and sits right under Melbourne and Sydney is terms of importance in Australia. Similar to Vancouver or Calgary's position in Canada relative to Montreal and Toronto.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:54 pm

AC said at the time that inbound tourism demand to QLD was a factor in originally choosing BNE over MEL. Don't forget that they codeshare with VA (and interline with QF) for connections from CNS etc, and they can manipulate GDS results to push traffic from other Australian cities such as ADL/PER/CBR over BNE instead of SYD/MEL if they need to make up the numbers and save seats on SYD flights for O&D.

Don't forget BNE has 13 weekly flights to LAX and QF will shortly launch BNE-SFO and BNE-ORD ,(albeit reducing BNE-LAX at the same time). Metro population for Vancouver and Brisbane is almost exactly the same. Brisbane is a bigger than Cedarjet is giving it credit for!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Thomaas
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:15 pm

BNE was likely also chosen because UA doesn’t fly there, making it a 1-stop flight from many North American cities that required 2 connections on Star Alliance.
 
x1234
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:46 pm

UA launched SFO-MEL earlier @ 3x weekly which I bet will soon be daily. SFO, MEL & AKL have J traffic while BNE is closer to the Great Barrier Reef and more leisure oriented. UA's trying to get converting ASAP the new Polaris on its 787's. I wonder why AC doesn't fly YVR-SIN, the only market in Asia that's high yielding that they don't serve.
 
x1234
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:52 pm

Also don't forget SYD, AKL & BNE have Hawaiian Airlines for a cheap 1 stop to the US Mainland.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:08 pm

x1234 wrote:
Also don't forget SYD, AKL & BNE have Hawaiian Airlines for a cheap 1 stop to the US Mainland.


There are a few cheap 1 stop options, not that many but a few like FJ from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL they also serve CHC/WLG low frequency, CHC is seasonal I think, they fly via NAN to SFO/LAX/HNL, I do wonder if FJ will relaunch YVR? They flew a 738 via HNL for a while some years ago, an A330 NAN-YVR non stop?

TN serve AKL and LAX

.
x1234 wrote:
UA launched SFO-MEL earlier @ 3x weekly which I bet will soon be daily. SFO, MEL & AKL have J traffic while BNE is closer to the Great Barrier Reef and more leisure oriented. UA's trying to get converting ASAP the new Polaris on its 787's. I wonder why AC doesn't fly YVR-SIN, the only market in Asia that's high yielding that they don't serve.


UA reduced LAX to start SFO atleast so 4x LAX and 3x SFO instead of 7x LAX. YVR-SIN while doable on a 77L, would AC make money or is the 77L a viable option there? Their 789s are quite dense and may also not be a viable option?
 
x1234
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:12 pm

ZK-NBT, AC can definitely fly a 789 on YVR-SIN. UA does on SFO-SIN and only needs to block 1 row of seats west-bound in the winter. From YVR they can have full-payload of YVR-SIN on the 789 OR 77L.
 
YYZORD
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:16 pm

x1234 wrote:
ZK-NBT, AC can definitely fly a 789 on YVR-SIN. UA does on SFO-SIN and only needs to block 1 row of seats west-bound in the winter. From YVR they can have full-payload of YVR-SIN on the 789 OR 77L.


I think SQ is more likely to do the SIN-YVR route instead of AC. Their A359 is perfect for this route as proven on SIN-SEA. At least SQ has codeshare with AC unlike UA so this can give connection options to other parts of Canada and US.
 
YYZORD
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:18 pm

Some tell me that the reason AC can't do YVR-MEL daily is the fact that they are at the max of how many flights they can fly to Australia from the Canadian side. What is the bilateral agreement?
 
SeaDoo
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:22 pm

x1234 wrote:
Also don't forget SYD, AKL & BNE have Hawaiian Airlines for a cheap 1 stop to the US Mainland.


Unless timings have changed, HA doesn't time these for connections to/from the US Mainland.
 
zkncj
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:24 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Didn’t AC just launch YVR-AKL today?


YVR-AKL is just an sessional extra, with AC/NZ applying for joint venture on the route.

NZ usually adds additional YVR-AKL flights at this time of the year, but with the 789 fleet being pretty tight at the moment it’s put pressure on the route network. I would say the AC flights, are purely from an opunity due to NZ not being able to offer extra flights this year due to the 789 issues.

In the same was CX is taking over NZ’s AKL-HKG flights for the next 3month.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:26 pm

x1234 wrote:
ZK-NBT, AC can definitely fly a 789 on YVR-SIN. UA does on SFO-SIN and only needs to block 1 row of seats west-bound in the winter. From YVR they can have full-payload of YVR-SIN on the 789 OR 77L.


AC have 298 seats on the 789 compared to UA 252, not sure if that's the count on the Polaris refitted frames, so UA have to block a row you say, AC would have to bolck several on the 789.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:28 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Some tell me that the reason AC can't do YVR-MEL daily is the fact that they are at the max of how many flights they can fly to Australia from the Canadian side. What is the bilateral agreement?


9,000 seats /week.

Some quick math...

9000 /300seat config = 30 flights a week 789 / 77L.

Room for 4 daily flights. MEL can be upgraded at any time.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/
SuperTwin
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:43 pm

SuperTwin wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Some tell me that the reason AC can't do YVR-MEL daily is the fact that they are at the max of how many flights they can fly to Australia from the Canadian side. What is the bilateral agreement?


9,000 seats /week.

Some quick math...

9000 /300seat config = 30 flights a week 789 / 77L.

Room for 4 daily flights. MEL can be upgraded at any time.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/



I'm sure that is 9000 return seats so 4500 one way
 
Lufthansa
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:51 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.



When was the last time you set foot in BNE? If you're thinking of BNE as it was when it was 1998 you'll come back to a rude shock
I have an apartment and a house in BNE and I spend the majority of my time there. A couple of things. Queensland's population
is nearly the same as Victoria but its a hell of a lot more dispersed. BNE is the prime international gateway, why do you think we are
about to open an additional new runway capable of intercontinental flights.

Next, SIA flies 4 times a day here, as does Emirates, one with the A380.
Next AC's flight lands at YVR a similar time to the SYD flight, and the same aircraft continues onto
EWR. Bookings were so high before the service even started it was upgraded to daily.
Next they have an interline agreement with QF to get regional pax down from parts of QLD to BNE the same day
and connect... AC does the same for QF in exchange at the other end. This isn't 1995 anymore.
I used to work in Global HQ of the worlds largest travel agency and believe me... this route would have been instantly
profitable.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:28 pm

Thomaas wrote:
BNE was likely also chosen because UA doesn’t fly there, making it a 1-stop flight from many North American cities that required 2 connections on Star Alliance.


Funny. Look at IAD/EWR/ORD-BNE restricted to UA and one is offered double-connects thru SFO and AKL, no YVR routings. (On the two dates I checked.)
 
346fetish
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:29 am

cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.


Here are some of the international services the "big country town" has on offer: SIN, AKL, CHC, WLG, DPS, NAN, HKG, NRT, HND, DMM, BKK, DMK, BWN, LAX, SFO, ORD, YVR, PVG, CAN, KUL, DXB, AUH, TPE, ...

Brisbane is not a "big country town." Population of 2.28 million with its catchment area reaching all the way down the Gold Coast (540K) and up the Sunshine Coast (350K).

However, there's no doubt QF's new SFO/ORD services will put pressure on AC's YVRBNE.

Best,
346fetish
"BA have got waterfalls in their head office. The only time we have waterfalls in the Ryanair office is when the toilet leaks."
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:51 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Also don't forget SYD, AKL & BNE have Hawaiian Airlines for a cheap 1 stop to the US Mainland.


There are a few cheap 1 stop options, not that many but a few like FJ from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL they also serve CHC/WLG low frequency, CHC is seasonal I think, they fly via NAN to SFO/LAX/HNL, I do wonder if FJ will relaunch YVR? They flew a 738 via HNL for a while some years ago, an A330 NAN-YVR non stop?

TN serve AKL and LAX

.
x1234 wrote:
UA launched SFO-MEL earlier @ 3x weekly which I bet will soon be daily. SFO, MEL & AKL have J traffic while BNE is closer to the Great Barrier Reef and more leisure oriented. UA's trying to get converting ASAP the new Polaris on its 787's. I wonder why AC doesn't fly YVR-SIN, the only market in Asia that's high yielding that they don't serve.


UA reduced LAX to start SFO atleast so 4x LAX and 3x SFO instead of 7x LAX. YVR-SIN while doable on a 77L, would AC make money or is the 77L a viable option there? Their 789s are quite dense and may also not be a viable option?


UA announced a seasonal cut to the frequency on MEL-SFO/LAX. Not unusual really for those moves to be made, but there is no ruling out that they may well undertake a rebalancing of capacity in future across its network offering, which will potentially see it expand or move flights between its SFO and LAX hubs.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:01 am

Lufthansa wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.



When was the last time you set foot in BNE? If you're thinking of BNE as it was when it was 1998 you'll come back to a rude shock
I have an apartment and a house in BNE and I spend the majority of my time there. A couple of things. Queensland's population
is nearly the same as Victoria but its a hell of a lot more dispersed. BNE is the prime international gateway, why do you think we are
about to open an additional new runway capable of intercontinental flights.

Next, SIA flies 4 times a day here, as does Emirates, one with the A380.
Next AC's flight lands at YVR a similar time to the SYD flight, and the same aircraft continues onto
EWR. Bookings were so high before the service even started it was upgraded to daily.
Next they have an interline agreement with QF to get regional pax down from parts of QLD to BNE the same day
and connect... AC does the same for QF in exchange at the other end. This isn't 1995 anymore.
I used to work in Global HQ of the worlds largest travel agency and believe me... this route would have been instantly
profitable.


From numbers I have referenced, population gap between Victoria and Queensland is well over a million people, so not exactly ‘nearly the same’.

Correction also on EK, which operates 3 x daily and is cutting one flight via SIN which is unlikely to be replaced.

Certainly agree that Brisbane has come of age though, but there’s a long way to go until it rivals the southern capitals in terms of overall economic output. Things do change over time, but at this stage premium demand and overall volume greatly favour SYD and MEL.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:16 am

Lufthansa wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.



When was the last time you set foot in BNE? If you're thinking of BNE as it was when it was 1998 you'll come back to a rude shock
I have an apartment and a house in BNE and I spend the majority of my time there. A couple of things. Queensland's population
is nearly the same as Victoria but its a hell of a lot more dispersed. BNE is the prime international gateway, why do you think we are
about to open an additional new runway capable of intercontinental flights.

Next, SIA flies 4 times a day here, as does Emirates, one with the A380.
Next AC's flight lands at YVR a similar time to the SYD flight, and the same aircraft continues onto
EWR. Bookings were so high before the service even started it was upgraded to daily.
Next they have an interline agreement with QF to get regional pax down from parts of QLD to BNE the same day
and connect... AC does the same for QF in exchange at the other end. This isn't 1995 anymore.
I used to work in Global HQ of the worlds largest travel agency and believe me... this route would have been instantly
profitable.


AC also has a codeshare/FF agreement with VA on selected routes in AU and CA.
Although the legacy interline agreement between QF/AC remains, VA has since replaced QF as their preferred Australian domestic partner not long ago.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:57 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I think it’s incredible that Brisbane can sustain daily nonstop to Vangroovy. I mean Sydney and Melbourne, sure, they are actually big cities, “world cities” if you like. (Well Sydney for sure, and Melbourne is still a big deal.) BRISBANE really is a big country town. Flights to Bali, Singapore, New Zealand I get. Vancouver blows my mind.



When was the last time you set foot in BNE? If you're thinking of BNE as it was when it was 1998 you'll come back to a rude shock
I have an apartment and a house in BNE and I spend the majority of my time there. A couple of things. Queensland's population
is nearly the same as Victoria but its a hell of a lot more dispersed. BNE is the prime international gateway, why do you think we are
about to open an additional new runway capable of intercontinental flights.

Next, SIA flies 4 times a day here, as does Emirates, one with the A380.
Next AC's flight lands at YVR a similar time to the SYD flight, and the same aircraft continues onto
EWR. Bookings were so high before the service even started it was upgraded to daily.
Next they have an interline agreement with QF to get regional pax down from parts of QLD to BNE the same day
and connect... AC does the same for QF in exchange at the other end. This isn't 1995 anymore.
I used to work in Global HQ of the worlds largest travel agency and believe me... this route would have been instantly
profitable.


From numbers I have referenced, population gap between Victoria and Queensland is well over a million people, so not exactly ‘nearly the same’.

Correction also on EK, which operates 3 x daily and is cutting one flight via SIN which is unlikely to be replaced.

Certainly agree that Brisbane has come of age though, but there’s a long way to go until it rivals the southern capitals in terms of overall economic output. Things do change over time, but at this stage premium demand and overall volume greatly favour SYD and MEL.



You also have to remember Northern NSW is part of BNE's catchment base.
It's only a 787 we're talking about filling here. And although its laid back, that part of the country
is full of wealthy retirees much like the Sunshine Coast that have moved for a sea change and to
get the beach house they always wanted. If you live in the Tweed for example, it's a bit over an
hours drive to BNE. That's a lot easier than those coming down from say CNS to use BNE for
intercontinental flights, particularly the Americas where this is the only airport in the region offering
those destinations.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:11 am

Lufthansa wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:


When was the last time you set foot in BNE? If you're thinking of BNE as it was when it was 1998 you'll come back to a rude shock
I have an apartment and a house in BNE and I spend the majority of my time there. A couple of things. Queensland's population
is nearly the same as Victoria but its a hell of a lot more dispersed. BNE is the prime international gateway, why do you think we are
about to open an additional new runway capable of intercontinental flights.

Next, SIA flies 4 times a day here, as does Emirates, one with the A380.
Next AC's flight lands at YVR a similar time to the SYD flight, and the same aircraft continues onto
EWR. Bookings were so high before the service even started it was upgraded to daily.
Next they have an interline agreement with QF to get regional pax down from parts of QLD to BNE the same day
and connect... AC does the same for QF in exchange at the other end. This isn't 1995 anymore.
I used to work in Global HQ of the worlds largest travel agency and believe me... this route would have been instantly
profitable.


From numbers I have referenced, population gap between Victoria and Queensland is well over a million people, so not exactly ‘nearly the same’.

Correction also on EK, which operates 3 x daily and is cutting one flight via SIN which is unlikely to be replaced.

Certainly agree that Brisbane has come of age though, but there’s a long way to go until it rivals the southern capitals in terms of overall economic output. Things do change over time, but at this stage premium demand and overall volume greatly favour SYD and MEL.



You also have to remember Northern NSW is part of BNE's catchment base.
It's only a 787 we're talking about filling here. And although its laid back, that part of the country
is full of wealthy retirees much like the Sunshine Coast that have moved for a sea change and to
get the beach house they always wanted. If you live in the Tweed for example, it's a bit over an
hours drive to BNE. That's a lot easier than those coming down from say CNS to use BNE for
intercontinental flights, particularly the Americas where this is the only airport in the region offering
those destinations.


I get what you are saying there but catchment zones are far more broad for all markets really and can’t be seen in isolation.

MEL largely has Victoria, SA and Tasmania in its natural catchment, and SYD tends to have most of NSW, but all can drag in traffic from anywhere in the country.

Routes need premium demand, driving up yields, so whatever routes thrive tend to do so on that factor.
 
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qf789
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:55 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
AC said at the time that inbound tourism demand to QLD was a factor in originally choosing BNE over MEL. Don't forget that they codeshare with VA (and interline with QF) for connections from CNS etc, and they can manipulate GDS results to push traffic from other Australian cities such as ADL/PER/CBR over BNE instead of SYD/MEL if they need to make up the numbers and save seats on SYD flights for O&D.

Don't forget BNE has 13 weekly flights to LAX and QF will shortly launch BNE-SFO and BNE-ORD ,(albeit reducing BNE-LAX at the same time). Metro population for Vancouver and Brisbane is almost exactly the same. Brisbane is a bigger than Cedarjet is giving it credit for!


Working in the bagroom here in PER, VA codeshares tend to go mostly through SYD for AC, though having said that most of the LAX ones do as well. Pretty much every bag I have seen either arrive or depart destined for an AC flight also connects in YVR onto another AC flight. Would be interesting to see if that trend is the same through SYD/MEL/BNE
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ZK-NBT
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:19 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Also don't forget SYD, AKL & BNE have Hawaiian Airlines for a cheap 1 stop to the US Mainland.


There are a few cheap 1 stop options, not that many but a few like FJ from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL they also serve CHC/WLG low frequency, CHC is seasonal I think, they fly via NAN to SFO/LAX/HNL, I do wonder if FJ will relaunch YVR? They flew a 738 via HNL for a while some years ago, an A330 NAN-YVR non stop?

TN serve AKL and LAX

.
x1234 wrote:
UA launched SFO-MEL earlier @ 3x weekly which I bet will soon be daily. SFO, MEL & AKL have J traffic while BNE is closer to the Great Barrier Reef and more leisure oriented. UA's trying to get converting ASAP the new Polaris on its 787's. I wonder why AC doesn't fly YVR-SIN, the only market in Asia that's high yielding that they don't serve.


UA reduced LAX to start SFO atleast so 4x LAX and 3x SFO instead of 7x LAX. YVR-SIN while doable on a 77L, would AC make money or is the 77L a viable option there? Their 789s are quite dense and may also not be a viable option?


UA announced a seasonal cut to the frequency on MEL-SFO/LAX. Not unusual really for those moves to be made, but there is no ruling out that they may well undertake a rebalancing of capacity in future across its network offering, which will potentially see it expand or move flights between its SFO and LAX hubs.



Interesting they did it in peak NW, i'd have thought they might have added 3x SFO while keeping LAX daily atleast over the peak season, it's not that uncommon though as you say and im sure in due course they will increase LAX back to daily and probably eventually SFO daily aswell. What was the seasonal cut to MEL-SFO announced?
 
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qf789
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:33 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

There are a few cheap 1 stop options, not that many but a few like FJ from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL they also serve CHC/WLG low frequency, CHC is seasonal I think, they fly via NAN to SFO/LAX/HNL, I do wonder if FJ will relaunch YVR? They flew a 738 via HNL for a while some years ago, an A330 NAN-YVR non stop?

TN serve AKL and LAX

.

UA reduced LAX to start SFO atleast so 4x LAX and 3x SFO instead of 7x LAX. YVR-SIN while doable on a 77L, would AC make money or is the 77L a viable option there? Their 789s are quite dense and may also not be a viable option?


UA announced a seasonal cut to the frequency on MEL-SFO/LAX. Not unusual really for those moves to be made, but there is no ruling out that they may well undertake a rebalancing of capacity in future across its network offering, which will potentially see it expand or move flights between its SFO and LAX hubs.



Interesting they did it in peak NW, i'd have thought they might have added 3x SFO while keeping LAX daily atleast over the peak season, it's not that uncommon though as you say and im sure in due course they will increase LAX back to daily and probably eventually SFO daily aswell. What was the seasonal cut to MEL-SFO announced?


There was no seasonal cut to MEL-SFO, effectively capacity out of MEL is kept the same prior to the launch of MEL-SFO, but now its a 3 weekly MEL-LAX and 3 weekly MEL-SFO
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kriskim
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:07 am

qf789 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

UA announced a seasonal cut to the frequency on MEL-SFO/LAX. Not unusual really for those moves to be made, but there is no ruling out that they may well undertake a rebalancing of capacity in future across its network offering, which will potentially see it expand or move flights between its SFO and LAX hubs.



Interesting they did it in peak NW, i'd have thought they might have added 3x SFO while keeping LAX daily atleast over the peak season, it's not that uncommon though as you say and im sure in due course they will increase LAX back to daily and probably eventually SFO daily aswell. What was the seasonal cut to MEL-SFO announced?


There was no seasonal cut to MEL-SFO, effectively capacity out of MEL is kept the same prior to the launch of MEL-SFO, but now its a 3 weekly MEL-LAX and 3 weekly MEL-SFO


It’s x4 weekly LAX and x3 weekly SFO, LAX goes back to daily during the Australian summer peak, like it is now.
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:01 pm

SeaDoo wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Also don't forget SYD, AKL & BNE have Hawaiian Airlines for a cheap 1 stop to the US Mainland.


Unless timings have changed, HA doesn't time these for connections to/from the US Mainland.

HA often advertise their AKL services with convenient connections to the mainland
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:07 pm

SYD & BNE also have immediate HA connections in HNL to west coast mainland, but rarely advertised now.

As for AC ex BNE, yes I have noticed a few ad hoc cancellations in the slow periods as some months have decent inbound loads and horrible outbound, and vv.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:17 pm

No matter which AC Australia route performs best, it's a fact that AC is feeling yield pressure on it's Australia operations as a whole, due to added capacity between North America and Oceania in the last 5-10 years. This will only get worse with more NA-Oceania flights coming online this year and next. (AC to AKL, NZ to EWR, QF to ORD, etc)

Lets not forget there is talk of NZ to YYZ, and QF non stop to JFK. East coast and midwest US non stops to Oceania inevitably hurt yields on west coast-Oceania flights. For these reasons (and lack of long haul frames at AC as well), I highly doubt you will be seeing more YVR-Australia flights in the short to medium term.
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:30 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

There are a few cheap 1 stop options, not that many but a few like FJ from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL they also serve CHC/WLG low frequency, CHC is seasonal I think, they fly via NAN to SFO/LAX/HNL, I do wonder if FJ will relaunch YVR? They flew a 738 via HNL for a while some years ago, an A330 NAN-YVR non stop?

TN serve AKL and LAX

.

UA reduced LAX to start SFO atleast so 4x LAX and 3x SFO instead of 7x LAX. YVR-SIN while doable on a 77L, would AC make money or is the 77L a viable option there? Their 789s are quite dense and may also not be a viable option?


UA announced a seasonal cut to the frequency on MEL-SFO/LAX. Not unusual really for those moves to be made, but there is no ruling out that they may well undertake a rebalancing of capacity in future across its network offering, which will potentially see it expand or move flights between its SFO and LAX hubs.



Interesting they did it in peak NW, i'd have thought they might have added 3x SFO while keeping LAX daily atleast over the peak season, it's not that uncommon though as you say and im sure in due course they will increase LAX back to daily and probably eventually SFO daily aswell. What was the seasonal cut to MEL-SFO announced?


I think you are confused. United have done exactly what you suggested: added 3x SFO and kept LAX daily. Right now UA have 10 weekly flights to Melbourne for NW.

From 28 March 2020 they will reduce MEL to 7 weekly for NS - which is the same capacity as last year but spread over two airports.
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:56 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
No matter which AC Australia route performs best, it's a fact that AC is feeling yield pressure on it's Australia operations as a whole, due to added capacity between North America and Oceania in the last 5-10 years. This will only get worse with more NA-Oceania flights coming online this year and next. (AC to AKL, NZ to EWR, QF to ORD, etc)

Lets not forget there is talk of NZ to YYZ, and QF non stop to JFK. East coast and midwest US non stops to Oceania inevitably hurt yields on west coast-Oceania flights. For these reasons (and lack of long haul frames at AC as well), I highly doubt you will be seeing more YVR-Australia flights in the short to medium term.


I'd love to see the data because I'm always baffled why anyone would go out of their way to fly via a third country to get to east coast US ports from Australia or New Zealand. LAX, where the bulk of flights head to, isn't the best for transiting, but do AC's services really rely so heavily on connecting Australian/NZ passengers to the east coast of the US??!

If anything over the past 5-10 years, Canada itself has been advertised a bucketload more (probably reflecting the many more direct flights up there now) - just look at any News Corp publication online at the moment, Ontario + Quebec are getting flogged to the punters a heck of a lot at the moment.
 
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:48 am

tayser wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
No matter which AC Australia route performs best, it's a fact that AC is feeling yield pressure on it's Australia operations as a whole, due to added capacity between North America and Oceania in the last 5-10 years. This will only get worse with more NA-Oceania flights coming online this year and next. (AC to AKL, NZ to EWR, QF to ORD, etc)

Lets not forget there is talk of NZ to YYZ, and QF non stop to JFK. East coast and midwest US non stops to Oceania inevitably hurt yields on west coast-Oceania flights. For these reasons (and lack of long haul frames at AC as well), I highly doubt you will be seeing more YVR-Australia flights in the short to medium term.


I'd love to see the data because I'm always baffled why anyone would go out of their way to fly via a third country to get to east coast US ports from Australia or New Zealand. LAX, where the bulk of flights head to, isn't the best for transiting, but do AC's services really rely so heavily on connecting Australian/NZ passengers to the east coast of the US??!

If anything over the past 5-10 years, Canada itself has been advertised a bucketload more (probably reflecting the many more direct flights up there now) - just look at any News Corp publication online at the moment, Ontario + Quebec are getting flogged to the punters a heck of a lot at the moment.


US to international connections at YVR are a breeze as you do not go through Canadian customs. You just get off your US flight and go through a sterile corridor to the international departures lounge.

Going in the other direction, again bypass Cdn customs and preclear at US customs to arrive at your destination essentially as a domestic passenger.
 
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:37 am

tayser wrote:
I'd love to see the data because I'm always baffled why anyone would go out of their way to fly via a third country to get to east coast US ports from Australia or New Zealand. LAX, where the bulk of flights head to, isn't the best for transiting, but do AC's services really rely so heavily on connecting Australian/NZ passengers to the east coast of the US??!

If anything over the past 5-10 years, Canada itself has been advertised a bucketload more (probably reflecting the many more direct flights up there now) - just look at any News Corp publication online at the moment, Ontario + Quebec are getting flogged to the punters a heck of a lot at the moment.


I agree that Oz-US East coast couldn't make up the bulk of the business case, but you underestimate the hate for LAX and US domestic flying.
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Re: 3 Red Lines: AC YVR-BNE/SYD/MEL

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:18 pm

tayser wrote:
I'd love to see the data because I'm always baffled why anyone would go out of their way to fly via a third country to get to east coast US ports from Australia or New Zealand. LAX, where the bulk of flights head to, isn't the best for transiting, but do AC's services really rely so heavily on connecting Australian/NZ passengers to the east coast of the US??!


I for one would go out of my way, if I was in such situation, to avoid flying domestic in the U.S. Also, I haven't managed to retrieve (yet) something I've read and probably posted here about U.S. passengers flying through YVR to Australia. I believe it's still the case, but at a time AC used to operate YVR-EWR with a 787.

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