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MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:36 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Wish LGB would get nonstop flights to IDA, PVU, and AZA.

LGB DID in fact have a flight to IDA (as well as BLI, LAS, and SCK) back in 2009-2011 with G4 but failed because of slots requiring a constant schedule service that G4 isn’t compatible with. We will not see any of these again at LGB.
 
lgblbc
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:52 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:57 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Little update: DAL will be returning on schedule to LGB on August 1 with 3x a day E175 service to SLC. Marking Sept 1, DAL will increase service to 5x a day, 3 mainline flights twice operated by a319 and one A221. rest e175. Bookings in Oct showing same frequency but replacing 738 with a221 on the route. Seems pretty ambitious, opinions?


Updated today, looks like now it will be 3x a day on 319s.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:53 pm

B6 AUS-LGB AUG 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BOS-LGB AUG 1.0>0[1.0]
B6 JFK-LGB AUG 1.8>0.3[1.8]
B6 LAS-LGB AUG 2>1.0[3]
B6 LGB-PDX AUG 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-RNO AUG 1.0>0.5[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA AUG 2>0.6[2]
B6 LGB-SFO AUG 2>0[2]
B6 LGB-SLC AUG 3>2[3]

All just announced, situation looking grim at LGB with B6 increasing cuts. In light of rumors circulating B6s departure (or at least cutting of their crew base here) mid Nov, any speculation on what's next for JetBlue and LGB?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:25 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
B6 AUS-LGB AUG 1.0>0.7[1.0]
B6 BOS-LGB AUG 1.0>0[1.0]
B6 JFK-LGB AUG 1.8>0.3[1.8]
B6 LAS-LGB AUG 2>1.0[3]
B6 LGB-PDX AUG 1.0>0.6[1.0]
B6 LGB-RNO AUG 1.0>0.5[1.0]
B6 LGB-SEA AUG 2>0.6[2]
B6 LGB-SFO AUG 2>0[2]
B6 LGB-SLC AUG 3>2[3]

All just announced, situation looking grim at LGB with B6 increasing cuts. In light of rumors circulating B6s departure (or at least cutting of their crew base here) mid Nov, any speculation on what's next for JetBlue and LGB?


Well B6 will almost have the new LAX midfield terminal to its self come this Fall if they move.
Add this to the build up at EWR and PHL.
If they both are successful LGB would be a easy elimination to add aircraft to further grow the markets.
I think once the A220 arrives on property at B6 In 2021 B6 will add SNA-JFK/BOS.
I feel this will eliminate the need for LGB all together.

Delta has made such a massive cut to it's fleet as a whole so I don't see them keeping the remaining 7 slots at LGB.

But because of the temporary COVID 19 slot usage exemption.
I don't see a reallocation coming soon unless DL and JetBlue officially give back the slots until they need to.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm

wnflyguy wrote:

Well B6 will almost have the new LAX midfield terminal to its self come this Fall if they move.
Add this to the build up at EWR and PHL.
If they both are successful LGB would be a easy elimination to add aircraft to further grow the markets.
I think once the A220 arrives on property at B6 In 2021 B6 will add SNA-JFK/BOS.
I feel this will eliminate the need for LGB all together.

Delta has made such a massive cut to it's fleet as a whole so I don't see them keeping the remaining 7 slots at LGB.

But because of the temporary COVID 19 slot usage exemption.
I don't see a reallocation coming soon unless DL and JetBlue officially give back the slots until they need to.

Flyguy


I don't think DL will drop LGB entirely, maybe just down to 2 or so flights a day to SLC. I believe they'll probably drop the slots they had intended for SEA and ATL. Though, DL upgraded the A220 intended for Sept/Oct SLC frequency to A319/738/E175 entirely.. so they have some faith in LGB. B6 (as said earlier in the thread), has a loyal flyership here and SLC/JFK may stay under a cut frequency just to please the small group of loyal flyers here as the routes could sustain decent profit margins, but all else is fair game.

Oddly enough, i'd be more interested to see what HAL will do more than anything. They were pulling in good numbers with HNL and intended to add OGG with the other slot they have. If they decide to drop the slot, it'll most likely be sucked up by WN and won't have the opportunity to slowly expand here like they seemingly wanted to do in pre-covid times. "Use the slot or lose it" - LGB Airport

MDGLGB
 
WN732
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 am

I honestly believe that LGB will be another WN centric airport, which falls in line with every other secondary LA area airport minus PSP.

B6's honeymoon is over and they are clearly not invested anymore. .03 to JFK? I don't think we need to see anymore, the writing is on the wall.

Not saying that they will pull out entirely but this is WN's opportunity for growth.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:58 am

I agree that in the end B6 at LGB will only have service to JFK, SLC, and maybe LAS.

A lot of people keep saying this is an opportunity for WN to grow at LGB but I wonder if Breeze Airways could possible make LGB work. Even NK could come in potentially if they wanted to grow their west coast presence.
 
gregn21
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:25 am

At this point I could see WN pushing hard and even taking losses to collect every LGB slot they can get. Could give them the ability to turn LGB into an exclusive DAL or HOU like operation. If anyone can make LGB work, it’s WN.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4787
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 am

I could really see B6 pulling down to just SLC. Connections can be made to time for BOS, MCO, FLL, and JFK if they want. At a minimum I dont know why they wouldn't keep that running. I can't see them leaving entirely but it's days a crew base are surely short. I really hope they keep some presence at long beach.

Hopefully JetBlue can start a shuttle bus and move/keep all employees at LAX. Since alot live south of long beach or near would only make sense to work out a bus maybe keep current employee parking lot?
 
BeachBoy
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:04 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:

Oddly enough, i'd be more interested to see what HAL will do more than anything. They were pulling in good numbers with HNL and intended to add OGG with the other slot they have.

MDGLGB


I was expecting HA to do double daily to HNL.
I was expecting the additional flight to lv HNL around 8:00 am and lv LGB around 6:00 pm. Allows for better B6 connections and caters to the HNL-based travelers visiting Disneyland. I was surprised how many local people knew about LGB and itʻs convenience for Disneyland trips over LAX.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:03 am

BeachBoy wrote:
I was expecting HA to do double daily to HNL. I was expecting the additional flight to lv HNL around 8:00 am and lv LGB around 6:00 pm. Allows for better B6 connections and caters to the HNL-based travelers visiting Disneyland. I was surprised how many local people knew about LGB and itʻs convenience for Disneyland trips over LAX.


Word on the street was OGG not a 2x daily HNL. Some believe it’s a test to see how two smaller airports (being LGB and OGG) would be compatible in a ploy to possibly expand LGB to a reliable small reliever airport to keep their stake in SoCal market and make a nice bit of profit while not putting much on the line.

HA came in at a time that B6 announced its rollouts, HA isn’t really coming here to make connections, that’s LAX. HA is trying to make LGB a mainstay, leisure airport to connect to Hawaii to promote a non-chaotic LAX alternative for LA Basin residents.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:07 am

I’m curious to see what people believe WN will do here at LGB to expand their network here but not lose much. Can’t keep adding more NorCal frequency as it’s completely flooded and was already performing poorly precovid. They also can’t be chasing JetBlue much further off the property (as they’re already running out the door) with trying to match flight routes (AUS/LAS possibly SLC in the future). Any transcons that could be viable? or something like HOU/MDW?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:57 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
I’m curious to see what people believe WN will do here at LGB to expand their network here but not lose much. Can’t keep adding more NorCal frequency as it’s completely flooded and was already performing poorly precovid. They also can’t be chasing JetBlue much further off the property (as they’re already running out the door) with trying to match flight routes (AUS/LAS possibly SLC in the future). Any transcons that could be viable? or something like HOU/MDW?


It's been long speculation that WN could use LGB as its LA/OC gateway to Hawaii.
The draw from it's LA/OC rapid rewards base alone could fill up a daily flights to HNL and OGG.
Long Beach easy going laid back setting would absolutely appealing to the LA/OC crowds driving to LGB vs making a connection in SJC,OAK or SMF. This wouldn't be a city relying on a network feed.

I'm gonna guess if just Delta alone returns 7 slots. And WN was able to get all 7.
WN would add.
1 additional PHX
1 HNL
1 OGG
3 LAS
1 DEN
If they didn't jump on the Hawaii market.
1 BWI
1 MDW

But knowing WN
Probably add
1 additional PHX
2 DEN
4 LAS.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4787
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:02 pm

Seems like Hawaii would be the next natural step if they get more slots
 
tphuang
Posts: 5297
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:15 pm

As I posted on the JetBlue thread, I think the axe is going to drop on LGB pretty soon. August is showing 2x weekly on JFK-LGB and nothing to BOS. That's even less frequency than to
RNO/ONT/BZN. I'm not sure the point of keeping LGB around if B6 considers it to be even lower yielding on transcon than ONT. There are some routes they do well out of LGB like SEA/PDX/SLC, but that's probably not worth keeping LGB around.

It really depends on what they can get at LAX.
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:20 pm

WN to Hawaii from LGB makes ZERO sense when LAX is up the street; that's the EASIEST airport for them to do Hawaii from and they didn't plan on doing it pre-pandemic so you can pretty much count that out now

Why people think LGB is some kind of gold mine is beyond me, and most others here
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5267
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:34 pm

I hope to see AS fly the SEA/PDX to LGB again, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:34 pm

A great gimmick for WN would be a transcon shuttle operating every two hours throughout the day from LGB-MDW-LGA and then alternate with BUR every two hours BUR-MDW-LGA (which would give them an hourly shuttle between MDW-LGA). Just a thought.
Cornucopia
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4787
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
A great gimmick for WN would be a transcon shuttle operating every two hours throughout the day from LGB-MDW-LGA and then alternate with BUR every two hours BUR-MDW-LGA (which would give them an hourly shuttle between MDW-LGA). Just a thought.


Post covid 2020 airlines are not into gimmick routes. Also WN doesn't have enough LGA slots for this. All focus is on the balance sheet for a while
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:42 pm

wnflyguy wrote:

It's been long speculation that WN could use LGB as its LA/OC gateway to Hawaii.
The draw from it's LA/OC rapid rewards base alone could fill up a daily flights to HNL and OGG.
Long Beach easy going laid back setting would absolutely appealing to the LA/OC crowds driving to LGB vs making a connection in SJC,OAK or SMF. This wouldn't be a city relying on a network feed.

I'm gonna guess if just Delta alone returns 7 slots. And WN was able to get all 7.
WN would add.
1 additional PHX
1 HNL
1 OGG
3 LAS
1 DEN
If they didn't jump on the Hawaii market.
1 BWI
1 MDW

But knowing WN
Probably add
1 additional PHX
2 DEN
4 LAS.

Flyguy


LGB as the gateway to Hawaii by WN has long been speculated by whom? Anyone beside yourself?

When WN runs Hawaii from the LA-basin, it will be from an airport with more than 2 connections from the east.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:43 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
WN to Hawaii from LGB makes ZERO sense when LAX is up the street; that's the EASIEST airport for them to do Hawaii from and they didn't plan on doing it pre-pandemic so you can pretty much count that out now


I agree that WN is unlikely to add nonstop service out of LGB to Hawaii since
(a) the destinations that WN currently serves nonstop from LGB already have 1-stop connecting service to Hawaii on WN through OAK, SJC, and/or SMF,
(b) WN would likely serve Hawaiian destinations nonstop from LAX if WN were to add nonstop service to Hawaii from the Greater Los Angeles market as WN would be able to offer connections to Hawaii from more contiguous U.S. destinations at LAX than it can at LGB, BUR, SNA, or ONT, and
(c) all of the destinations that currently have existing or already announced nonstop service out of LGB on WN are already served nonstop out of LAX on WN.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3670
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:05 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
A great gimmick for WN would be a transcon shuttle operating every two hours throughout the day from LGB-MDW-LGA and then alternate with BUR every two hours BUR-MDW-LGA (which would give them an hourly shuttle between MDW-LGA). Just a thought.


Post covid 2020 airlines are not into gimmick routes. Also WN doesn't have enough LGA slots for this. All focus is on the balance sheet for a while


Most of the passengers connecting to and from LGA from beyond-LGA perimeter airports on WN are willing to change planes if necessary. There is also a significant amount of passengers connecting to LGA from beyond-LGA perimeter destinations in the Western U.S. on WN, AA, DL, and UA (and vice versa), even from destinations that already have nonstop service to EWR or JFK.

There are reasons why some passengers would choose connecting options to LGA over nonstops to EWR or JFK, including
(a) LGA being closer to a passenger's origin or final destination than EWR or JFK,
(b) NYC traffic,
(c) frequent flyer loyalty, and
(d) some passengers connecting on an airline that serves LGA but not JFK or EWR such as WN.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:17 pm

I could see DAL/HOU as a possibility for WN. MDW and BWI may not work, B6 did LGB-ORD/IAD neither of which lasted very long. Though, people are saying that LGB is a WN type airport so who knows....
 
jplatts
Posts: 3670
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:44 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
I could see DAL/HOU as a possibility for WN. MDW and BWI may not work, B6 did LGB-ORD/IAD neither of which lasted very long. Though, people are saying that LGB is a WN type airport so who knows....


WN might be able to make LGB-MDW and LGB-BWI nonstop service work, even when B6 couldn't make LGB-ORD and LGB-IAD nonstop service work, due to
(a) WN being able to offer connections to many destinations in the Eastern U.S. at both MDW and BWI,
(b) WN having a much bigger presence in Chicago, Baltimore/DC, and Greater Los Angeles markets than B6 does, and
(c) WN having a FF base in Southern Los Angeles County, Chicago, Baltimore, DC, and other Eastern U.S. markets served by WN to support LGB-MDW/BWI nonstop service.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:25 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
WN to Hawaii from LGB makes ZERO sense when LAX is up the street; that's the EASIEST airport for them to do Hawaii from and they didn't plan on doing it pre-pandemic so you can pretty much count that out now

Why people think LGB is some kind of gold mine is beyond me, and most others here


I Don't know what LAX-Hawaii going to be like in a post Covid environment but it was already a blood bath before with everyone flying the market.
WN LAX Gates are still minus one gate. It was at maximum usage for WN already.
It's possible once it opens up they might add LAX-Hawaii but the ETOPS turns eat up a lot of valuable gate time.
Now If WN were to finally fly RED Eyes I would say yes LAX would probably be the gateway if there solely reliant on connections.

WN is not JetBlue and they dominate the southern California marketshare.
So LGB is like BUR,ONT and SNA it adds value to the Complete marketshare.
LGB out of the 5 airports is the cheapest to operate from so adding Hawaii non stops Makes sense.
WN passengers are Loyal and will drive to whatever airport in the area has the cheapest flights. WN Highest rapid rewards membership comes from SoCal so if WN did offer flights just from LGB they definitely will not be needing the network feed for the Hawaii flights.

Once the MAX8/MAX7 returns to service they will Add DEN,PHX and LAS for the connections.

I also see SoCal Hawaii gateway trifecta coming from WN using LGB,BUR and ONT.

WN is in the long game at LGB so it's not going anywhere.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
tphuang
Posts: 5297
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:34 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
WN to Hawaii from LGB makes ZERO sense when LAX is up the street; that's the EASIEST airport for them to do Hawaii from and they didn't plan on doing it pre-pandemic so you can pretty much count that out now

Why people think LGB is some kind of gold mine is beyond me, and most others here


I Don't know what LAX-Hawaii going to be like in a post Covid environment but it was already a blood bath before with everyone flying the market.
WN LAX Gates are still minus one gate. It was at maximum usage for WN already.
It's possible once it opens up they might add LAX-Hawaii but the ETOPS turns eat up a lot of valuable gate time.
Now If WN were to finally fly RED Eyes I would say yes LAX would probably be the gateway if there solely reliant on connections.

WN is not JetBlue and they dominate the southern California marketshare.
So LGB is like BUR,ONT and SNA it adds value to the Complete marketshare.
LGB out of the 5 airports is the cheapest to operate from so adding Hawaii non stops Makes sense.
WN passengers are Loyal and will drive to whatever airport in the area has the cheapest flights. WN Highest rapid rewards membership comes from SoCal so if WN did offer flights just from LGB they definitely will not be needing the network feed for the Hawaii flights.

Once the MAX8/MAX7 returns to service they will Add DEN,PHX and LAS for the connections.

I also see SoCal Hawaii gateway trifecta coming from WN using LGB,BUR and ONT.

WN is in the long game at LGB so it's not going anywhere.

Flyguy


your obsession with LGB is quite baffling. LGB is far and away the lowest yielding airport for WN and everyone else out of LA Basin. And it's not particularly close. What I have seen from WN is an airline that's extremely disciplined at giving up routes that don't work. This experiment at LGB won't last if things don't turn around.

WN's Hawaii flying so far have been quite low yielding even from airports it dominates. If they do add service to HI from LA Basin, the most logical location is LAX.
 
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stasisLAX
Posts: 2968
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:05 am

tphuang wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
WN to Hawaii from LGB makes ZERO sense when LAX is up the street; that's the EASIEST airport for them to do Hawaii from and they didn't plan on doing it pre-pandemic so you can pretty much count that out now

Why people think LGB is some kind of gold mine is beyond me, and most others here


I Don't know what LAX-Hawaii going to be like in a post Covid environment but it was already a blood bath before with everyone flying the market.
WN LAX Gates are still minus one gate. It was at maximum usage for WN already.
It's possible once it opens up they might add LAX-Hawaii but the ETOPS turns eat up a lot of valuable gate time.
Now If WN were to finally fly RED Eyes I would say yes LAX would probably be the gateway if there solely reliant on connections.

WN is not JetBlue and they dominate the southern California marketshare.
So LGB is like BUR,ONT and SNA it adds value to the Complete marketshare.
LGB out of the 5 airports is the cheapest to operate from so adding Hawaii non stops Makes sense.
WN passengers are Loyal and will drive to whatever airport in the area has the cheapest flights. WN Highest rapid rewards membership comes from SoCal so if WN did offer flights just from LGB they definitely will not be needing the network feed for the Hawaii flights.

Once the MAX8/MAX7 returns to service they will Add DEN,PHX and LAS for the connections.

I also see SoCal Hawaii gateway trifecta coming from WN using LGB,BUR and ONT.

WN is in the long game at LGB so it's not going anywhere.

Flyguy


your obsession with LGB is quite baffling. LGB is far and away the lowest yielding airport for WN and everyone else out of LA Basin. And it's not particularly close. What I have seen from WN is an airline that's extremely disciplined at giving up routes that don't work. This experiment at LGB won't last if things don't turn around.

WN's Hawaii flying so far have been quite low yielding even from airports it dominates. If they do add service to HI from LA Basin, the most logical location is LAX.


:checkmark: Agreed that WN won't hesitate to pull the plug on routes that just don't make money. Surprisingly, most Long Beach residents don't seem to really give a darn about their airport. The anti-noise LBC NIMBYs have been so rabid for so long, most residents are numb to the constant airport related political games with City Council. A damn shame, honestly.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:32 pm

stasisLAX wrote:
:checkmark: Agreed that WN won't hesitate to pull the plug on routes that just don't make money. Surprisingly, most Long Beach residents don't seem to really give a darn about their airport. The anti-noise LBC NIMBYs have been so rabid for so long, most residents are numb to the constant airport related political games with City Council. A damn shame, honestly.


I thought that too, until the Festival of Flight brought thousands of people who proclaim love to the airport without having any word on NIMBY organizations or similar groups making any large scale (or loud) appearances at the event. The City Council and politics is what really brings the airport down, if they were only more lenient with slots, then lgb could become a more profitable operation.

MDGLGB
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:25 pm

WN used the temporary 180 days out slot availability to add 1 daily LGB-LAS flight to it's schedule from 08/11/2020-09/14/2020.

Rumor has it WN may add 1 LAS and 2 PHX daily flights to the October 2020 schedule.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:42 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN used the temporary 180 days out slot availability to add 1 daily LGB-LAS flight to it's schedule from 08/11/2020-09/14/2020.

Rumor has it WN may add 1 LAS and 2 PHX daily flights to the October 2020 schedule.

Flyguy


Why would WN want to devote resources to such a lost cause?

Oh well, less resources to use against B6 at real airports like FLL and BOS and LAX. So i'll take it.
 
WN732
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:21 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN used the temporary 180 days out slot availability to add 1 daily LGB-LAS flight to it's schedule from 08/11/2020-09/14/2020.

Rumor has it WN may add 1 LAS and 2 PHX daily flights to the October 2020 schedule.

Flyguy


Why would WN want to devote resources to such a lost cause?

Oh well, less resources to use against B6 at real airports like FLL and BOS and LAX. So i'll take it.


LOL, don't get your hopes up too high now.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5297
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:39 pm

WN732 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN used the temporary 180 days out slot availability to add 1 daily LGB-LAS flight to it's schedule from 08/11/2020-09/14/2020.

Rumor has it WN may add 1 LAS and 2 PHX daily flights to the October 2020 schedule.

Flyguy


Why would WN want to devote resources to such a lost cause?

Oh well, less resources to use against B6 at real airports like FLL and BOS and LAX. So i'll take it.


LOL, don't get your hopes up too high now.

Wn has cut fll more than anywhere else, left ewr, is going nowhere in bos and cut all long haul stuff out of lax. I would say wn has done exactly what b6 wanted it to do.

B6 and wn now have the smallest overlap in competition than they have ever had. I think JetBlue is really thankful for that.
 
lgblbc
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:52 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:58 pm

lgblbc wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
Little update: DAL will be returning on schedule to LGB on August 1 with 3x a day E175 service to SLC. Marking Sept 1, DAL will increase service to 5x a day, 3 mainline flights twice operated by a319 and one A221. rest e175. Bookings in Oct showing same frequency but replacing 738 with a221 on the route. Seems pretty ambitious, opinions?


Updated today, looks like now it will be 3x a day on 319s.


And now appears to be trimmed down to 2 a day until 8Sep...
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:59 am

Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.
 
WN732
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:06 am

StinkyPinky wrote:
Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.


Probably the inevitable that we knew had to eventually happen.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:08 am

StinkyPinky wrote:
Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.


Not surprising, the lack of flights at LGB that B6 operated over the past few months speak loudly, especially since LGB is still technically a “focus city”. I’m expecting more cuts, maybe downgrading LGB as a crew base but I wouldn’t expect much more news past that.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:19 am

Should have ripped the bandaid off awhile ago
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:31 am

Here's a very in-depth and well written article that has a lot of profitability and frequency figures of B6's presence at LGB for the past 2 decades.
Fair warning, it is long: https://www.flydataguy.com/2020/01/behi ... ue-is.html

In short, the last time B6 had decent profitability at LGB was the pre-2008 recession, after that the vast majority of routes were under their RASM (Revenue per Available Seat Mile). For those who don't know, RASM usually is a good indicator for the profitability of an airline on that route. 2011 proved to be the eye-opener year for B6, as it marked when JetBlue started cutting peak frequencies in an attempt to cut frequency until profitability. Yada-yada-yada as time went on they kept on losing money, after they were denied the international terminal and 2018 came around, they started heavily cutting flights. Increased pressure from competition forced them to use slots that bled money so they dropped the slots which were picked up by DAL/SWA/HAL. 2018/2019 RASM figures show that their "cutting frequency until profitability" seemed to have a small but positive effect as routes became slightly less losing. But as we all know, the tale goes, COVID and a weak economy will push B6 to make further strides to convert their routes to LAX, and B6/LGB storytale seems to be on the end of the line.
 
catiii
Posts: 3607
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:42 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.


Not surprising, the lack of flights at LGB that B6 operated over the past few months speak loudly, especially since LGB is still technically a “focus city”. I’m expecting more cuts, maybe downgrading LGB as a crew base but I wouldn’t expect much more news past that.


Expect much more than that...
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20246
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:43 pm

WN732 wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.


Probably the inevitable that we knew had to eventually happen.

Very sad. However, I fly less and less from LGB as the cities I go to have direct flights from LAX or I need a Western hub.

I really like flying B6 out if LGB, but the fares were not sustainable.

Will anyone in the post Covid19 world really fill it up? Sadly, an ULCC is the best hope.

Sniffle.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14549
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
WN732 wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.


Probably the inevitable that we knew had to eventually happen.

Very sad. However, I fly less and less from LGB as the cities I go to have direct flights from LAX or I need a Western hub.

I really like flying B6 out if LGB, but the fares were not sustainable.

Will anyone in the post Covid19 world really fill it up? Sadly, an ULCC is the best hope.

Sniffle.

Lightsaber


I've long thought that LGB has the most potential on shorthaul routes where the location means time gains that are significant as a fraction of the length of the trip. That's pretty much WN's recipe at BUR, and they seem to succeed more at BUR than anyone else. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison, of course, but it's also not totally dissimilar.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:54 pm

catiii wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Invitation sent to all B6 LGB workgroups for a meeting tomorrow. Ominous feelings as the previous meetings with little notice were full of bad news.


Not surprising, the lack of flights at LGB that B6 operated over the past few months speak loudly, especially since LGB is still technically a “focus city”. I’m expecting more cuts, maybe downgrading LGB as a crew base but I wouldn’t expect much more news past that.


Expect much more than that...


Considering the email was sent to all LGB crewmembers and not just Pilots and Flight Attendants, the news most likely involves more than just closing a crew base. We will find out soon enough.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:05 pm

StinkyPinky wrote:
catiii wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:

Not surprising, the lack of flights at LGB that B6 operated over the past few months speak loudly, especially since LGB is still technically a “focus city”. I’m expecting more cuts, maybe downgrading LGB as a crew base but I wouldn’t expect much more news past that.


Expect much more than that...


Considering the email was sent to all LGB crewmembers and not just Pilots and Flight Attendants, the news most likely involves more than just closing a crew base. We will find out soon enough.


Well Rumor a few weeks back was November 7 was the last Day of operations.
But seemed to be heavily debunked by many JetBlue people.
With AA and DL cutting back heavily at JFK in the new smaller COVID operations.
Makes sense to Kill LGB and use the aircraft out of JFK/EWR/PHL.
I was told LGB limited 15 flights a day operation still requires 7 aircraft to complete its schedule.
That's a lot of aircraft and time to have flying a low yelling station especially in this new environment.
Hopefully it isn't true because I love flying JetBlue out of LGB.


Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:58 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Should have ripped the bandaid off awhile ago

Why?
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:29 pm

Good for LGB???
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:50 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Good for LGB???


Unless JetBlue decides to pull a plot reversal in this story of exit from LGB and add flights, this announcement will surely not be good for LGB.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4787
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:57 pm

Terrible to hear of an all workgroup meeting in these covid times. I really do hope for the best. Most importantly hope for the best for the staff. hope a bus and jobs at LAX are offered, but we all know cuts are coming in October anyway. They are adding flights at lax, so maybe there hope. Sad just hope b6 stays at long beach and this isn't a total exit.

Really hope its something about employee parking Changes or something other then what has been rumored.
 
gregn21
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:51 pm

Anyone know the timing of today’s B6 meeting?
 
catiii
Posts: 3607
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:03 pm

gregn21 wrote:
Anyone know the timing of today’s B6 meeting?


now...
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:12 pm

Ultimately think this will be a good move for JB. LGB was a dead end. Fills in the hole left by Virgin American a bit better.
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