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CobaltScar
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:42 pm

What spin did they use when they abandoned EWR?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:51 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
What spin did they use when they abandoned EWR?

Touché! Hahahahaha

Flyguy
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nine4nine
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:57 pm

LAXintl wrote:
No one will make LGB a cargo hub.

The airport does not even have a cargo warehouse, let alone the rest of infrastructure like customs, brokers etc. UPS/FedEx today simply truck in prebuilt ULDs to load on the aircraft.

Amazon is spending $200mil building a regional air hub at San Bernardino >> viewtopic.php?t=1438195

Meanwhile folks like NCA, LH Cargo have big warehouse facilities and investments at LAX an airport that is 24/7 without any operations restrictions. Zero need to move.



Exactly. I don’t understand how this thread went bonkers with people assuming LGB would become a cargo center To offset LAX. The operating hours at LGB with the curfew for cargo are horrible and wouldn’t work. A lot of cargo ops at LAX are between 10pm and 6am. Not to mention I remember some time back when I worked at LGB talking with admin there that the Lakewood Blvd bridge couldn’t sustain the weight of a fully fueled 747 with pax/freight. MD11’s during production were also never fully fueled for test flights from what they said too if my aging memory serves me right.
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:03 pm

I don't think anyone assumes long beach will be a full fledged cargo hub. Its a rumor and maybe a few flights , if the hours work for Amazon. Based on what they say I think the hours would be fine, it's a small operation. Amazon has a full fledged major cargo center for so cal, could or would compliment that not replace. It's just a rumor and idea, doubt it would ever happen. You know Amazon if it's a good deal I wouldn't be surprised if they did a mini center with one or two flights a day. A morning arrival for cargo that's too late to hit the main mega center close to orange county and South Bay could make sense if the price is right. You know Amazon they would want a deal , but the airport might give them one both cause they have the land and because it makes good press and jobs.

Chances of Amazon are Low, but there is a case it makes sense for the right price. If the airport thinks the slot lottery will have high demand maybe they don't even need to entertain amazons plans, you know they want a bargain to do it or they won't do it. Amazon doesn't need them it's more that it could provide good access if the airport is willing to make a really good deal move.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:20 pm

atcanobbio wrote:
if B6 starts MEX from LAX, i wonder if they'll put MINT on the route. thoughts?

Highly doubtful they'd start MEX, and even less likely it will be mint.
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WN732
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:44 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't think anyone assumes long beach will be a full fledged cargo hub. Its a rumor and maybe a few flights , if the hours work for Amazon. Based on what they say I think the hours would be fine, it's a small operation. Amazon has a full fledged major cargo center for so cal, could or would compliment that not replace. It's just a rumor and idea, doubt it would ever happen. You know Amazon if it's a good deal I wouldn't be surprised if they did a mini center with one or two flights a day. A morning arrival for cargo that's too late to hit the main mega center close to orange county and South Bay could make sense if the price is right. You know Amazon they would want a deal , but the airport might give them one both cause they have the land and because it makes good press and jobs.

Chances of Amazon are Low, but there is a case it makes sense for the right price. If the airport thinks the slot lottery will have high demand maybe they don't even need to entertain amazons plans, you know they want a bargain to do it or they won't do it. Amazon doesn't need them it's more that it could provide good access if the airport is willing to make a really good deal move.


Isn't Amazon setting up a major distribution center at RIV, and SBD?
 
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WALmsp
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:47 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
SBA will still be it main 24hr mega processing warehouse.


Flyguy


Do you mean SBD? SBA is Santa Barbara.
In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
 
Chemist
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:49 pm

It's high time that LGB return to a GA airport and the politicians there can kiss their Commercial revenue goodbye. They don't seem to want the business anyway. They could turn the terminal into a small mall.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:36 pm

Here are JetBlues last flights in and out of LGB. Convenient that they can both be made into one round trip.

https://www.google.com/flights?hl=en-us ... .USD.12560

LGB-LAS-LGB departing LGB around 9am and getting back to LGB around 12:20pm. $126 r/t

I’m honestly surprised they are flying their last flights to LAS and not SLC/JFK.

On the 6th, JetBlue will only fly an early SLC (~6am departure) and these two LAS flights. All non-transcon routes end on the 5th. JFK/BOS end on Sept 30 with one JFK exception on Oct 4.

Any word on whether there will be any sort of ceremony, even among B6s bitterness toward LGB?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:54 pm

JetBlue putting up with those trailers for years and having faith in the airport when no one else did, they really should get a small goodbye if the airport has any class. They built the modern version of that airport (which is gorgeous) with all their fees even though they operated out of trailers. Anyone remember JetBlue's old setup? It was so bare bones. They had vending machines in trailers. I think the airport will show some class, it was the city council who knows nothing about aviation who were anti blue are long gone. Let's hope for a nice send-off. One of the more fun unique experiences was JetBlue out of long beach.

CobaltScar wrote:
What spin did they use when they abandoned EWR?


You were too expensive and we don't LUV you anymore.
 
11C
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:05 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
JetBlue putting up with those trailers for years and having faith in the airport when no one else did, they really should get a small goodbye if the airport has any class. They built the modern version of that airport (which is gorgeous) with all their fees even though they operated out of trailers. Anyone remember JetBlue's old setup? It was so bare bones. They had vending machines in trailers. I think the airport will show some class, it was the city council who knows nothing about aviation who were anti blue are long gone. Let's hope for a nice send-off. One of the more fun unique experiences was JetBlue out of long beach.

CobaltScar wrote:
What spin did they use when they abandoned EWR?


You were too expensive and we don't LUV you anymore.


I’m expecting a “don’t let the door hit you in the tail on your way out,” sentiment. That would be fine by me, and the door won’t hit me in the arse.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:39 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Here are JetBlues last flights in and out of LGB. Convenient that they can both be made into one round trip.

https://www.google.com/flights?hl=en-us ... .USD.12560

LGB-LAS-LGB departing LGB around 9am and getting back to LGB around 12:20pm. $126 r/t

I’m honestly surprised they are flying their last flights to LAS and not SLC/JFK.

On the 6th, JetBlue will only fly an early SLC (~6am departure) and these two LAS flights. All non-transcon routes end on the 5th. JFK/BOS end on Sept 30 with one JFK exception on Oct 4.

Any word on whether there will be any sort of ceremony, even among B6s bitterness toward LGB?


Wait, so the last flight is an inbound? And then a ferry out I assume? To LAX? Wouldn't have expected that...
 
WN732
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:58 pm

flyfresno wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
Here are JetBlues last flights in and out of LGB. Convenient that they can both be made into one round trip.

https://www.google.com/flights?hl=en-us ... .USD.12560

LGB-LAS-LGB departing LGB around 9am and getting back to LGB around 12:20pm. $126 r/t

I’m honestly surprised they are flying their last flights to LAS and not SLC/JFK.

On the 6th, JetBlue will only fly an early SLC (~6am departure) and these two LAS flights. All non-transcon routes end on the 5th. JFK/BOS end on Sept 30 with one JFK exception on Oct 4.

Any word on whether there will be any sort of ceremony, even among B6s bitterness toward LGB?


Wait, so the last flight is an inbound? And then a ferry out I assume? To LAX? Wouldn't have expected that...


One more piss off to the NIMBY's. A low and slow flight to LAX.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:06 pm

Hearing Delta has removed it's self from the Waiting list.
I'm sure Hawaiian probably not far behind.
While WN has been wanting every available opportunity.
From what I heard today WN may just want to trade out all 9 supplemental slots for 9 permanent slots.
WN Growth opportunity may be capped at 17 flights for 2020.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
nine4nine
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:15 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Hearing Delta has removed it's self from the Waiting list.
I'm sure Hawaiian probably not far behind.
While WN has been wanting every available opportunity.
From what I heard today WN may just want to trade out all 9 supplemental slots for 9 permanent slots.
WN Growth opportunity may be capped at 17 flights for 2020.

Flyguy



Lol this is great. Let the council members sweat this one out and let the nimbys enjoy that nice bumper to bumper drive to LAX for their next flight. That nice new terminal and the construction of a new check in area for under 20 daily flights.

With Hawaii travel now pushed to Sept and possibly beyond can pretty much say HA is done for awhile if not for good.

The City poked AA in the eye as well wouldn’t be shocked to see them pack up too.
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MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:37 pm

nine4nine wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Hearing Delta has removed it's self from the Waiting list.
I'm sure Hawaiian probably not far behind.
While WN has been wanting every available opportunity.
From what I heard today WN may just want to trade out all 9 supplemental slots for 9 permanent slots.
WN Growth opportunity may be capped at 17 flights for 2020.

Flyguy



Lol this is great. Let the council members sweat this one out and let the nimbys enjoy that nice bumper to bumper drive to LAX for their next flight. That nice new terminal and the construction of a new check in area for under 20 daily flights.

With Hawaii travel now pushed to Sept and possibly beyond can pretty much say HA is done for awhile if not for good.

The City poked AA in the eye as well wouldn’t be shocked to see them pack up too.


This is horrible and I hope the rumors aren’t true. It was already expected that DL and HA wouldn’t need more slots than they already have.

I wanted to expect Southwest was going to take up a majority if not all the slots that are available, but I suppose that isn’t a realistic expectation.

I would hope AA doesn’t leave or cut down until WN starts competing them on the route in November, it’s nice having the large route network AAL has to connect through at PHX, especially since we are AA frequent fliers.

EDIT: calling it a worse case scenario is too dramatic I believe haha
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:01 pm

Hawaii would be really crazy to open their borders. I know their economy is tourism but the cost of a mass outbreak is way more of a toll. Hawaii is in a unique geographical location that blocking visitors can actually spare them. They are an island resources are very limited if there's an outbreak it will be way worse to handle.

I wonder if JetBlue would consider SNA-SLC if they can get some slots here down the road and just ditch the lax flights to SLC. Feeds their already established customer base on that route much better than LAX. They would get alot better fares than super competative LAX. Gets them into orange county and they can offer connections to JFK, BOS, FLL and MCO. Holds onto slots if they wanna do something else later. Orange county has been a pretty tough airport for slots. I promise the orange county flyers on that route would be thrilled , the drive to lax is rough and definitely most people using long beach were driving to the OC. Huge connection between the OC and Utah. Plus all flyers to JFK,FLL,MCO, and BOS have to connect to the OC anyway so JetBlue would be very competitive from those cities to the OC instantally with their large base of flyers. It's crazy but it's not the worst idea if orange county slots open up. The traffic in that area leaving long beach not everyone will drive to LAX. Before the leaving long beach announcement was official them getting orange county slots made zero sense, now with the main operation in lax, a small presence in Orange county now actually would make sense.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:17 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Hearing Delta has removed it's self from the Waiting list.
I'm sure Hawaiian probably not far behind.
While WN has been wanting every available opportunity.
From what I heard today WN may just want to trade out all 9 supplemental slots for 9 permanent slots.
WN Growth opportunity may be capped at 17 flights for 2020.

Flyguy



Lol this is great. Let the council members sweat this one out and let the nimbys enjoy that nice bumper to bumper drive to LAX for their next flight. That nice new terminal and the construction of a new check in area for under 20 daily flights.

With Hawaii travel now pushed to Sept and possibly beyond can pretty much say HA is done for awhile if not for good.

The City poked AA in the eye as well wouldn’t be shocked to see them pack up too.


This is horrible and I hope the rumors aren’t true. It was already expected that DL and HA wouldn’t need more slots than they already have.

I wanted to expect Southwest was going to take up a majority if not all the slots that are available, but I suppose that isn’t a realistic expectation.

I would hope AA doesn’t leave or cut down until WN starts competing them on the route in November, it’s nice having the large route network AAL has to connect through at PHX, especially since we are AA frequent fliers.

EDIT: calling it a worse case scenario is too dramatic I believe haha


Given the massive spike in covid 19 cases and states requiring a 14 day quarantine again this has caused the whole Industry to start seeing a 40% rise in new cancelled bookings this week leading all the way into August. I wouldn't be surprised at All if this has WN pumping the brakes on LGB.
I can see WN swapping out 9 of 9 but also grabbing the remaining 8 permanent slots.
Adding 4 LAS, 2 DEN and increase PHX by 2 flights.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:27 pm

Many people I know have already decided not to do holiday air travel. I know several people who are moving grandparents in from Thanksgiving to Xmas and doing long drives to avoid air travel. All people who normally fly. WN might have a hard time keeping all of their SNA slots flying , adding more long beach would be even more seats they have to fly empty. I'm not sure long beach is worth flying so many empty seats. I don't really see another airline requesting them. I bet southwest asks for a delay for both airports to hold onto slots. I guess we will just have to see how willing they are to let airlines not fly them.

I still think JetBlue should try to grab some SNA slots now that they are gone from long beach to serve the people in Orange county still. I don't think they have ever requested slots there, didn't make sense with long beach but I think it would now.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:41 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Many people I know have already decided not to do holiday air travel. I know several people who are moving grandparents in from Thanksgiving to Xmas and doing long drives to avoid air travel. All people who normally fly. WN might have a hard time keeping all of their SNA slots flying , adding more long beach would be even more seats they have to fly empty. I'm not sure long beach is worth flying so many empty seats. I don't really see another airline requesting them. I bet southwest asks for a delay for both airports to hold onto slots. I guess we will just have to see how willing they are to let airlines not fly them.

I still think JetBlue should try to grab some SNA slots now that they are gone from long beach to serve the people in Orange county still. I don't think they have ever requested slots there, didn't make sense with long beach but I think it would now.


B6 will need the 220 for SNA service. Slots should be around for awhile so depending on when the 220 is on property and how they plan to utilize them SNA could eventually be in the works. Assuming slots will be underutilized for at least the next year if not two.
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WN732
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:43 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Many people I know have already decided not to do holiday air travel. I know several people who are moving grandparents in from Thanksgiving to Xmas and doing long drives to avoid air travel. All people who normally fly. WN might have a hard time keeping all of their SNA slots flying , adding more long beach would be even more seats they have to fly empty. I'm not sure long beach is worth flying so many empty seats. I don't really see another airline requesting them. I bet southwest asks for a delay for both airports to hold onto slots. I guess we will just have to see how willing they are to let airlines not fly them.

I still think JetBlue should try to grab some SNA slots now that they are gone from long beach to serve the people in Orange county still. I don't think they have ever requested slots there, didn't make sense with long beach but I think it would now.


That will never happen until they get their A220's. They would have to block off way too many seats on their Airbuses.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:07 pm

WN732 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Many people I know have already decided not to do holiday air travel. I know several people who are moving grandparents in from Thanksgiving to Xmas and doing long drives to avoid air travel. All people who normally fly. WN might have a hard time keeping all of their SNA slots flying , adding more long beach would be even more seats they have to fly empty. I'm not sure long beach is worth flying so many empty seats. I don't really see another airline requesting them. I bet southwest asks for a delay for both airports to hold onto slots. I guess we will just have to see how willing they are to let airlines not fly them.

I still think JetBlue should try to grab some SNA slots now that they are gone from long beach to serve the people in Orange county still. I don't think they have ever requested slots there, didn't make sense with long beach but I think it would now.


That will never happen until they get their A220's. They would have to block off way too many seats on their Airbuses.


Well that happens later this year. They'd be wise to start collecting slots at SNA ASAP. Transcon server out of SNA would give a lot of bang for the buck, even if they get only a small handful of slots. Would be a good middle finger to LGB too to see their neighbors further south ride in quiet TV entertained luxury non-stop to the east coast why they get to ride cattle car with a bag of peanuts through Denver to get anywhere.
 
jplatts
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:48 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Many people I know have already decided not to do holiday air travel. I know several people who are moving grandparents in from Thanksgiving to Xmas and doing long drives to avoid air travel. All people who normally fly. WN might have a hard time keeping all of their SNA slots flying , adding more long beach would be even more seats they have to fly empty. I'm not sure long beach is worth flying so many empty seats. I don't really see another airline requesting them. I bet southwest asks for a delay for both airports to hold onto slots. I guess we will just have to see how willing they are to let airlines not fly them.

I still think JetBlue should try to grab some SNA slots now that they are gone from long beach to serve the people in Orange county still. I don't think they have ever requested slots there, didn't make sense with long beach but I think it would now.


I had previously mentioned that additional slots will become available at SNA starting in January 2021 as the limit of the number of average daily departures at SNA increases to 95 daily departures from 85 daily departures starting on January 1, 2021 and the limit on the number of annual passengers increases to 11.8 million passengers from 10.8 million passengers in 2021.

There are some more nonstop routes that could be made by US3 carriers out of SNA, including the following:
AA - SNA-CLT/MIA/PHL
DL - SNA-BOS/JFK
UA - SNA-IAD

I had also mentioned WN re-adding SNA-AUS/MDW nonstop service as possibilities with additional slots becoming available at SNA in 2021.
 
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:10 pm

Delete
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:23 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
nine4nine wrote:


Lol this is great. Let the council members sweat this one out and let the nimbys enjoy that nice bumper to bumper drive to LAX for their next flight. That nice new terminal and the construction of a new check in area for under 20 daily flights.

With Hawaii travel now pushed to Sept and possibly beyond can pretty much say HA is done for awhile if not for good.

The City poked AA in the eye as well wouldn’t be shocked to see them pack up too.


This is horrible and I hope the rumors aren’t true. It was already expected that DL and HA wouldn’t need more slots than they already have.

I wanted to expect Southwest was going to take up a majority if not all the slots that are available, but I suppose that isn’t a realistic expectation.

I would hope AA doesn’t leave or cut down until WN starts competing them on the route in November, it’s nice having the large route network AAL has to connect through at PHX, especially since we are AA frequent fliers.

EDIT: calling it a worse case scenario is too dramatic I believe haha


Given the massive spike in covid 19 cases and states requiring a 14 day quarantine again this has caused the whole Industry to start seeing a 40% rise in new cancelled bookings this week leading all the way into August. I wouldn't be surprised at All if this has WN pumping the brakes on LGB.
I can see WN swapping out 9 of 9 but also grabbing the remaining 8 permanent slots.
Adding 4 LAS, 2 DEN and increase PHX by 2 flights.

Flyguy



For days you have been saying WN wanted all the slots:

-During a pandemic

-At a very secondary airport, even for WN

And for days I have been saying LGB will be very quiet for a long time to come
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:07 pm

CobaltScar wrote:

Well that happens later this year. They'd be wise to start collecting slots at SNA ASAP. Transcon server out of SNA would give a lot of bang for the buck, even if they get only a small handful of slots. Would be a good middle finger to LGB too to see their neighbors further south ride in quiet TV entertained luxury non-stop to the east coast why they get to ride cattle car with a bag of peanuts through Denver to get anywhere.


And when their East Coast originating flights to SNA run past curfew like at LGB, they'll have to go to LAX, their new gate constrained focus city or ONT.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:10 pm

jplatts wrote:

There are some more nonstop routes that could be made by US3 carriers out of SNA, including the following:
AA - SNA-CLT/MIA/PHL
DL - SNA-BOS/JFK
UA - SNA-IAD

I had also mentioned WN re-adding SNA-AUS/MDW nonstop service as possibilities with additional slots becoming available at SNA in 2021.


And what, pray tell, does your oh so foggy crystal ball tell you what demand will be in Jan 2021? The US3 will not be adding new routes like you suggest. Most if not all will be in Chapter 11, most likely.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:23 pm

I would not be surprised if AA and DL and maybe HA drop LGB service all together or do not resume flights at all.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:16 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I would not be surprised if AA and DL and maybe HA drop LGB service all together or do not resume flights at all.



Fingers crossed. Would love to see that airport eat crow. How B6 put up with the trailer park there for so long is amazing. Then only to get spit on. Nice new terminal and only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier would serve them right.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
ScottB
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:44 pm

nine4nine wrote:
How B6 put up with the trailer park there for so long is amazing. Then only to get spit on. Nice new terminal and only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier would serve them right.


They put up with the trailer park because they had virtually no other choice at the time. If they wanted to operate more than a handful of daily flights, there wasn't enough space at either LAX or BUR, and not enough slots at SNA. They could have tried a focus city/hub at ONT, but they probably realized it'd be like trying to have a focus city/hub at ISP or SWF.

If you're running the airport department and a responsible steward of the public purse, you don't commit tens of millions of dollars to build a new terminal for an airline that's only been round a few years. It's even worse to have a nice new terminal with zero flights.

And even if they've got "only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier," that single carrier is WN. There are a couple hundred airport managers who would probably give up their first-born kid to get WN at their airport, so they're really not that bad-off.

Fact is that B6 would have left or vastly scaled down their LGB operation regardless of whether the relationship with the airport was warm and fuzzy or cold and prickly. The availability of additional gates at LAX is an opportunity which they cannot ignore apart from the potential financial impact to the airline during an industry crisis. They're less irrelevant in the L.A. market at LAX than they are at LGB, even if the travel experience at LAX sucks.

OzarkD9S wrote:
And when their East Coast originating flights to SNA run past curfew like at LGB, they'll have to go to LAX, their new gate constrained focus city or ONT.


THIS. If it was just too hard to operate into LGB before curfew, they're going to be in a world of hurt at SNA. Might as well have those buses on standby every night to get the passengers from LAX to SNA.
 
asteriskceo
Posts: 501
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:33 pm

ScottB wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
How B6 put up with the trailer park there for so long is amazing. Then only to get spit on. Nice new terminal and only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier would serve them right.


They put up with the trailer park because they had virtually no other choice at the time. If they wanted to operate more than a handful of daily flights, there wasn't enough space at either LAX or BUR, and not enough slots at SNA. They could have tried a focus city/hub at ONT, but they probably realized it'd be like trying to have a focus city/hub at ISP or SWF.

If you're running the airport department and a responsible steward of the public purse, you don't commit tens of millions of dollars to build a new terminal for an airline that's only been round a few years. It's even worse to have a nice new terminal with zero flights.

And even if they've got "only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier," that single carrier is WN. There are a couple hundred airport managers who would probably give up their first-born kid to get WN at their airport, so they're really not that bad-off.

Fact is that B6 would have left or vastly scaled down their LGB operation regardless of whether the relationship with the airport was warm and fuzzy or cold and prickly. The availability of additional gates at LAX is an opportunity which they cannot ignore apart from the potential financial impact to the airline during an industry crisis. They're less irrelevant in the L.A. market at LAX than they are at LGB, even if the travel experience at LAX sucks.

OzarkD9S wrote:
And when their East Coast originating flights to SNA run past curfew like at LGB, they'll have to go to LAX, their new gate constrained focus city or ONT.


THIS. If it was just too hard to operate into LGB before curfew, they're going to be in a world of hurt at SNA. Might as well have those buses on standby every night to get the passengers from LAX to SNA.

That part.

I’m not really sure why everyone gives LGB such a hard time when SNA has a far more restrictive curfew with much heavier fines. And don’t even get me started about the borderline unsafe noise abatement procedure out of SNA.


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wnflyguy
Posts: 1962
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:54 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
ScottB wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
How B6 put up with the trailer park there for so long is amazing. Then only to get spit on. Nice new terminal and only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier would serve them right.


They put up with the trailer park because they had virtually no other choice at the time. If they wanted to operate more than a handful of daily flights, there wasn't enough space at either LAX or BUR, and not enough slots at SNA. They could have tried a focus city/hub at ONT, but they probably realized it'd be like trying to have a focus city/hub at ISP or SWF.

If you're running the airport department and a responsible steward of the public purse, you don't commit tens of millions of dollars to build a new terminal for an airline that's only been round a few years. It's even worse to have a nice new terminal with zero flights.

And even if they've got "only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier," that single carrier is WN. There are a couple hundred airport managers who would probably give up their first-born kid to get WN at their airport, so they're really not that bad-off.

Fact is that B6 would have left or vastly scaled down their LGB operation regardless of whether the relationship with the airport was warm and fuzzy or cold and prickly. The availability of additional gates at LAX is an opportunity which they cannot ignore apart from the potential financial impact to the airline during an industry crisis. They're less irrelevant in the L.A. market at LAX than they are at LGB, even if the travel experience at LAX sucks.

OzarkD9S wrote:
And when their East Coast originating flights to SNA run past curfew like at LGB, they'll have to go to LAX, their new gate constrained focus city or ONT.


THIS. If it was just too hard to operate into LGB before curfew, they're going to be in a world of hurt at SNA. Might as well have those buses on standby every night to get the passengers from LAX to SNA.

That part.

I’m not really sure why everyone gives LGB such a hard time when SNA has a far more restrictive curfew with much heavier fines. And don’t even get me started about the borderline unsafe noise abatement procedure out of SNA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very true.
If LGB had the restrictions SNA had JetBlue would have never had any curfew violations.

SNA has hard times if your not making the window for 22:20 extension for departure. Or the 23:20 arrival extension your forced to divert because the airport is closed to all airline traffic.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 203
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:59 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
ScottB wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
How B6 put up with the trailer park there for so long is amazing. Then only to get spit on. Nice new terminal and only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier would serve them right.


They put up with the trailer park because they had virtually no other choice at the time. If they wanted to operate more than a handful of daily flights, there wasn't enough space at either LAX or BUR, and not enough slots at SNA. They could have tried a focus city/hub at ONT, but they probably realized it'd be like trying to have a focus city/hub at ISP or SWF.

If you're running the airport department and a responsible steward of the public purse, you don't commit tens of millions of dollars to build a new terminal for an airline that's only been round a few years. It's even worse to have a nice new terminal with zero flights.

And even if they've got "only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier," that single carrier is WN. There are a couple hundred airport managers who would probably give up their first-born kid to get WN at their airport, so they're really not that bad-off.

Fact is that B6 would have left or vastly scaled down their LGB operation regardless of whether the relationship with the airport was warm and fuzzy or cold and prickly. The availability of additional gates at LAX is an opportunity which they cannot ignore apart from the potential financial impact to the airline during an industry crisis. They're less irrelevant in the L.A. market at LAX than they are at LGB, even if the travel experience at LAX sucks.

OzarkD9S wrote:
And when their East Coast originating flights to SNA run past curfew like at LGB, they'll have to go to LAX, their new gate constrained focus city or ONT.


THIS. If it was just too hard to operate into LGB before curfew, they're going to be in a world of hurt at SNA. Might as well have those buses on standby every night to get the passengers from LAX to SNA.

That part.

I’m not really sure why everyone gives LGB such a hard time when SNA has a far more restrictive curfew with much heavier fines. And don’t even get me started about the borderline unsafe noise abatement procedure out of SNA.


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I’ll be the one who says it. People aren’t as hard on SNA because it’s in a nicer area than LGB, also LGB overlaps more with LAX and SNA is in a more populated part of Orange County that serves its own area, SNA is in a better demographic area, and higher yielding passengers use SNA more. Also the city of Santa Ana is not impossible to work with and the NIMBYs aren’t as loud when it comes to SNA. Lastly people wouldn’t be as disappointed or upset if LGB lost commercial service compared to SNA. Life could go on and travel would be okay if LGB lost all service, same cannot be said about SNA.
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:04 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
ScottB wrote:

They put up with the trailer park because they had virtually no other choice at the time. If they wanted to operate more than a handful of daily flights, there wasn't enough space at either LAX or BUR, and not enough slots at SNA. They could have tried a focus city/hub at ONT, but they probably realized it'd be like trying to have a focus city/hub at ISP or SWF.

If you're running the airport department and a responsible steward of the public purse, you don't commit tens of millions of dollars to build a new terminal for an airline that's only been round a few years. It's even worse to have a nice new terminal with zero flights.

And even if they've got "only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier," that single carrier is WN. There are a couple hundred airport managers who would probably give up their first-born kid to get WN at their airport, so they're really not that bad-off.

Fact is that B6 would have left or vastly scaled down their LGB operation regardless of whether the relationship with the airport was warm and fuzzy or cold and prickly. The availability of additional gates at LAX is an opportunity which they cannot ignore apart from the potential financial impact to the airline during an industry crisis. They're less irrelevant in the L.A. market at LAX than they are at LGB, even if the travel experience at LAX sucks.



THIS. If it was just too hard to operate into LGB before curfew, they're going to be in a world of hurt at SNA. Might as well have those buses on standby every night to get the passengers from LAX to SNA.

That part.

I’m not really sure why everyone gives LGB such a hard time when SNA has a far more restrictive curfew with much heavier fines. And don’t even get me started about the borderline unsafe noise abatement procedure out of SNA.


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Very true.
If LGB had the restrictions SNA had JetBlue would have never had any curfew violations.

SNA has hard times if your not making the window for 22:20 extension for departure. Or the 23:20 arrival extension your forced to divert because the airport is closed to all airline traffic.

Flyguy
During my time working for WN at SNA, we broke the curfew ONCE in a 3 year period, and it was purely by accident. We had given a late flight the thumbs up to push back, but it was held up for 15 minutes at the departure end of the runway waiting for a train of flights to land.

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asteriskceo
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:08 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
ScottB wrote:

They put up with the trailer park because they had virtually no other choice at the time. If they wanted to operate more than a handful of daily flights, there wasn't enough space at either LAX or BUR, and not enough slots at SNA. They could have tried a focus city/hub at ONT, but they probably realized it'd be like trying to have a focus city/hub at ISP or SWF.

If you're running the airport department and a responsible steward of the public purse, you don't commit tens of millions of dollars to build a new terminal for an airline that's only been round a few years. It's even worse to have a nice new terminal with zero flights.

And even if they've got "only a dozen or so daily flights from 1 single carrier," that single carrier is WN. There are a couple hundred airport managers who would probably give up their first-born kid to get WN at their airport, so they're really not that bad-off.

Fact is that B6 would have left or vastly scaled down their LGB operation regardless of whether the relationship with the airport was warm and fuzzy or cold and prickly. The availability of additional gates at LAX is an opportunity which they cannot ignore apart from the potential financial impact to the airline during an industry crisis. They're less irrelevant in the L.A. market at LAX than they are at LGB, even if the travel experience at LAX sucks.



THIS. If it was just too hard to operate into LGB before curfew, they're going to be in a world of hurt at SNA. Might as well have those buses on standby every night to get the passengers from LAX to SNA.

That part.

I’m not really sure why everyone gives LGB such a hard time when SNA has a far more restrictive curfew with much heavier fines. And don’t even get me started about the borderline unsafe noise abatement procedure out of SNA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’ll be the one who says it. People aren’t as hard on SNA because it’s in a nicer area than LGB, also LGB overlaps more with LAX and SNA is in a more populated part of Orange County that serves its own area, SNA is in a better demographic area, and higher yielding passengers use SNA more. Also the city of Santa Ana is not impossible to work with and the NIMBYs aren’t as loud when it comes to SNA. Lastly people wouldn’t be as disappointed or upset if LGB lost commercial service compared to SNA. Life could go on and travel would be okay if LGB lost all service, same cannot be said about SNA.
Umm...the approach end of 20R at SNA is commercially zoned. It's just a bunch of warehouses and office buildings. What you are referring to are the uber wealthy residents near the ocean. The free market, anti-regulation Republicans. Oh wait...except when there is noise in THEIR backyards.

Give me a break...

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wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:16 pm

Hawaiian one daily flight to LGB-HNL was on average filled with 70% Orange County passengers. They definitely were filling the Void left by United dropping the SNA-HNL nonstop.
Hawaiian was able to fill up every seat to max capacity unlike the 20 seat Cap United was forced to do with the 737.
I'm sure Hawaiian going to return to LGB once the quarantine ends.

Flyguy
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HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:33 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Hawaiian one daily flight to LGB-HNL was on average filled with 70% Orange County passengers. They definitely were filling the Void left by United dropping the SNA-HNL nonstop.
Hawaiian was able to fill up every seat to max capacity unlike the 20 seat Cap United was forced to do with the 737.
I'm sure Hawaiian going to return to LGB once the quarantine ends.

Flyguy

Do you have data or numbers to follow up that 70%? A great number for that area, if in fact true.

Also being wealthy, a republican and living near the ocean is not a bad thing. Work hard, play hard.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:41 am

Well sounds like WN is cut some capacity in California including LGB for AUG because of the Covid 19 spike has reduced bookings.

Can't wait for this pandemic to be over.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:18 pm

From my LGB friend.
WN schedule movements at LGB.
Dude to covid treads it's scaled back some business markets between August and mid September.
Mid September WN moving up PHX and AUS service while temporarily cutting all SJC.
In addition for September WN temporary adding back 2 Daily LAS and 2 Daily DEN.

Speculation for November and beyond the 2 LAS and 2 DEN will permanently return. Bringing that daily flights to 21.

Looked at Southwest.Com to confirm this Rumor and New flights showing bookable.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:59 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
From my LGB friend.
WN schedule movements at LGB.
Dude to covid treads it's scaled back some business markets between August and mid September.
Mid September WN moving up PHX and AUS service while temporarily cutting all SJC.
In addition for September WN temporary adding back 2 Daily LAS and 2 Daily DEN.

Speculation for November and beyond the 2 LAS and 2 DEN will permanently return. Bringing that daily flights to 21.

Looked at Southwest.Com to confirm this Rumor and New flights showing bookable.

Flyguy


Great to hear, AUS and PHX starting Sept 13. Didn't look into the LAS and DEN services. I'm glad that DEN is coming back as it's a good mid-point for connections to the east coast for more flexibility out of LGB. Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic but I'm still hoping to get some more route announcements soon from WN and other carriers. Thanks for the info!
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:50 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Hawaii would be really crazy to open their borders. I know their economy is tourism but the cost of a mass outbreak is way more of a toll. Hawaii is in a unique geographical location that blocking visitors can actually spare them. They are an island resources are very limited if there's an outbreak it will be way worse to handle.

I wonder if JetBlue would consider SNA-SLC if they can get some slots here down the road and just ditch the lax flights to SLC. Feeds their already established customer base on that route much better than LAX. They would get alot better fares than super competative LAX. Gets them into orange county and they can offer connections to JFK, BOS, FLL and MCO. Holds onto slots if they wanna do something else later. Orange county has been a pretty tough airport for slots. I promise the orange county flyers on that route would be thrilled , the drive to lax is rough and definitely most people using long beach were driving to the OC. Huge connection between the OC and Utah. Plus all flyers to JFK,FLL,MCO, and BOS have to connect to the OC anyway so JetBlue would be very competitive from those cities to the OC instantally with their large base of flyers. It's crazy but it's not the worst idea if orange county slots open up. The traffic in that area leaving long beach not everyone will drive to LAX. Before the leaving long beach announcement was official them getting orange county slots made zero sense, now with the main operation in lax, a small presence in Orange county now actually would make sense.

I agree with you! Huge connection between OC and Utah. That would be a very successful flight. A SNA-SLC evening departure into SLC to comedy into the red eyes to BOS, JFK, MCO, and FLL would be nice as well
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:03 pm

I am skeptical JetBlue can make it on LAX-SLC the market is so crowded already. Walk up fare pre pandemic were often very affordable. Maybe alot of mileage redemptions at first but long term I see SNA a better city for the route. JetBlue was successful on the route at launch but neeleman knew the coastal oc towns have a huge demand to SLC. SNA would be a better replacement for long beach on that route . Delta has crushed it on SNA-SLC in fact it was JetBlue long beach flights that kept their fares in check, delta even entering the market. It rained on the SNA fare premiums. Use to be a very expense route N/S for delta. Delta is gonna gain alot more pricing power soon too! The drive to LAX can be horrible with traffic. Doubt it will happen but if JetBlue can gain slots might be nice to serve the area still and that base of flyers they have built up for years. I don't see alot of the crowd on that route schlepping up to LAX to stay with b6.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:55 pm

Well I'm told LGB sent out a open invite to all US domestic and Cargo airlines including those already on the list that they have until End of Business day PST on August 28th to submit a application to participate. Or elect to Pass if already on the Slot lottery allocation list. I'm Told the lottery will take place Monday morning at 10:00 Am PST Aug 31st. All Airlines participants due to COVID pandemic will be given until April 2021 to start awarded service.
On a side Note Hawaiian has Loaded LGB-HNL back into it's schedule starting September 1. Subject to change pending the 14 day quarantine requirements get extended.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:01 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well I'm told LGB sent out a open invite to all US domestic and Cargo airlines including those already on the list that they have until End of Business day PST on August 28th to submit a application to participate. Or elect to Pass if already on the Slot lottery allocation list. I'm Told the lottery will take place Monday morning at 10:00 Am PST Aug 31st. All Airlines participants due to COVID pandemic will be given until April 2021 to start awarded service.
On a side Note Hawaiian has Loaded LGB-HNL back into it's schedule starting September 1. Subject to change pending the 14 day quarantine requirements get extended. I’d be willing to bet HA doesn’t resume come September.

Flyguy


LGB sounds like they’re getting desperate. I honestly don’t see any purpose of DL or AA flying there anymore. With B6 off LGB- SLC and only DL on the route, and with WN starting LGB-PHX I don’t see them hanging around just to get low hanging fruit and just low yields after low yields.

I don’t see F9 back or NK ever coming to LGB, G4 couldn’t make LGB work. AS couldn’t make it work. And again I don’t see a purpose for AA or DL to be there anymore. I don’t think Breeze would be interested especially if they’ll have a similar route network and frequency strategy as G4. I’d bet HA doesn’t resume come September.
Last edited by HNLSLCPDX on Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:05 pm

Yeah, sounds like begging to me.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:43 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well I'm told LGB sent out a open invite to all US domestic and Cargo airlines including those already on the list that they have until End of Business day PST on August 28th to submit a application to participate. Or elect to Pass if already on the Slot lottery allocation list. I'm Told the lottery will take place Monday morning at 10:00 Am PST Aug 31st. All Airlines participants due to COVID pandemic will be given until April 2021 to start awarded service.
On a side Note Hawaiian has Loaded LGB-HNL back into it's schedule starting September 1. Subject to change pending the 14 day quarantine requirements get extended. I’d be willing to bet HA doesn’t resume come September.

Flyguy


LGB sounds like they’re getting desperate. I honestly don’t see any purpose of DL or AA flying there anymore. With B6 off LGB- SLC and only DL on the route, and with WN starting LGB-PHX I don’t see them hanging around just to get low hanging fruit and just low yields after low yields.

I don’t see F9 back or NK ever coming to LGB, G4 couldn’t make LGB work. AS couldn’t make it work. And again I don’t see a purpose for AA or DL to be there anymore. I don’t think Breeze would be interested especially if they’ll have a similar route network and frequency strategy as G4. I’d bet HA doesn’t resume come September.

I love flying out if LGB. With JetBlue gaining LAX gates, both Delta and SouthWest need to evaluate the value of expanding LGB or sustaining flights at LAX and SNA; the two highest value greater LA airports.

I think the NIMBYs won. Long Beach proved too much of a hassle. If it had been a multi-year competition, SouthWest would have squeezed JetBlue slowly out if LGB (IMHO because MINT really only works at the big airports).

With EWR and LAX gates available, LGB list B6. WN would be wise to pursue JFK, EWR, DTW, or maybe even DFW gates over LGB.

Lightsaber
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spinkid
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:57 pm

Yeah, with B6 pulling out and the Pandemic still in full effect in Southern CaliforniaLGB is going to be a shell of what it was 2-3 years ago. They may end up trying to recruit the likes of Frontier, Spirit and Sun Country to add flights.

LGB could, in theory look ilke what it did before jetBlue arrived.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:55 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well I'm told LGB sent out a open invite to all US domestic and Cargo airlines including those already on the list that they have until End of Business day PST on August 28th to submit a application to participate. Or elect to Pass if already on the Slot lottery allocation list. I'm Told the lottery will take place Monday morning at 10:00 Am PST Aug 31st. All Airlines participants due to COVID pandemic will be given until April 2021 to start awarded service.
On a side Note Hawaiian has Loaded LGB-HNL back into it's schedule starting September 1. Subject to change pending the 14 day quarantine requirements get extended. I’d be willing to bet HA doesn’t resume come September.

Flyguy


LGB sounds like they’re getting desperate. I honestly don’t see any purpose of DL or AA flying there anymore. With B6 off LGB- SLC and only DL on the route, and with WN starting LGB-PHX I don’t see them hanging around just to get low hanging fruit and just low yields after low yields.

I don’t see F9 back or NK ever coming to LGB, G4 couldn’t make LGB work. AS couldn’t make it work. And again I don’t see a purpose for AA or DL to be there anymore. I don’t think Breeze would be interested especially if they’ll have a similar route network and frequency strategy as G4. I’d bet HA doesn’t resume come September.


AA left LGB before and probably will not hesitate to do so again. Before the pandemic, many of the cheapest fares I had ever seen to/from Greater Los Angeles had been LGB-PHX-XXX (or vice-versa). I have long questioned the profitability of that service - even before it saw WN competition.

DL seems to have quite a knack for pulling off service to secondary airports - BUR, BWI, DAL, FLL, HOU, IAD, MDW, OAK, ONT, PVD and SWF spring to mind (in addition to LGB). If they can make some of those other places work, they might just have reason to keep SLC-LGB around now that they may very well enjoy monopoly pricing power on that route. Can't imagine they'll bother to keep LAS-LGB though.

NK probably won't bother with LGB, but F9 seems more akin to DL with its ability to successfully serve secondary airports. If they can manage ISP and TTN while also serving nearby primary airports, they might just be able to pull off LGB. Then again, they already seem to have found their preferred Greater Los Angeles alternate facility at ONT - even taking advantage of that airport's FIS. Maybe LGB was passed over by F9 due to its lack of ability to accept international flights.

G4 would probably sooner try SNA than give LGB another go. "Los Angeles" and "Orange County" probably resonate *A LOT* more with their passenger base than "Long Beach" ever could. Then again, this is an airline with no qualms flying tons of folks to Mesa, Arizona and Punta Gorda, Florida.

AS is a wildcard. B6 actually seemed to do fairly well with its flights between LGB and the Pacific Northwest, and I'm not sure AS had the right aircraft for such services before the E-175 (when their options were just 737s, Q400s and CRJ-700s). A few E-175 flights between SEA (and perhaps even PDX?) and LGB might not be much riskier than their recent expansion in other California markets like MRY and SBP..

All in all, though, WN is probably now free to grab as many LGB slots as it wants. It probably doesn't want many more than it already has and would be very happy to see no takers for the remaining mainline LGB slots, but even these days, at least one competitor could very well try and spoil things...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:07 pm

I wonder if LGB will shut down the four south gates and move WN up to the north gates.
 
gmcc
Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:27 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well I'm told LGB sent out a open invite to all US domestic and Cargo airlines including those already on the list that they have until End of Business day PST on August 28th to submit a application to participate. Or elect to Pass if already on the Slot lottery allocation list. I'm Told the lottery will take place Monday morning at 10:00 Am PST Aug 31st. All Airlines participants due to COVID pandemic will be given until April 2021 to start awarded service.
On a side Note Hawaiian has Loaded LGB-HNL back into it's schedule starting September 1. Subject to change pending the 14 day quarantine requirements get extended. I’d be willing to bet HA doesn’t resume come September.

Flyguy


LGB sounds like they’re getting desperate. I honestly don’t see any purpose of DL or AA flying there anymore. With B6 off LGB- SLC and only DL on the route, and with WN starting LGB-PHX I don’t see them hanging around just to get low hanging fruit and just low yields after low yields.

I don’t see F9 back or NK ever coming to LGB, G4 couldn’t make LGB work. AS couldn’t make it work. And again I don’t see a purpose for AA or DL to be there anymore. I don’t think Breeze would be interested especially if they’ll have a similar route network and frequency strategy as G4. I’d bet HA doesn’t resume come September.


AA left LGB before and probably will not hesitate to do so again. Before the pandemic, many of the cheapest fares I had ever seen to/from Greater Los Angeles had been LGB-PHX-XXX (or vice-versa). I have long questioned the profitability of that service - even before it saw WN competition.

DL seems to have quite a knack for pulling off service to secondary airports - BUR, BWI, DAL, FLL, HOU, IAD, MDW, OAK, ONT, PVD and SWF spring to mind (in addition to LGB). If they can make some of those other places work, they might just have reason to keep SLC-LGB around now that they may very well enjoy monopoly pricing power on that route. Can't imagine they'll bother to keep LAS-LGB though.

NK probably won't bother with LGB, but F9 seems more akin to DL with its ability to successfully serve secondary airports. If they can manage ISP and TTN while also serving nearby primary airports, they might just be able to pull off LGB. Then again, they already seem to have found their preferred Greater Los Angeles alternate facility at ONT - even taking advantage of that airport's FIS. Maybe LGB was passed over by F9 due to its lack of ability to accept international flights.

G4 would probably sooner try SNA than give LGB another go. "Los Angeles" and "Orange County" probably resonate *A LOT* more with their passenger base than "Long Beach" ever could. Then again, this is an airline with no qualms flying tons of folks to Mesa, Arizona and Punta Gorda, Florida.

AS is a wildcard. B6 actually seemed to do fairly well with its flights between LGB and the Pacific Northwest, and I'm not sure AS had the right aircraft for such services before the E-175 (when their options were just 737s, Q400s and CRJ-700s). A few E-175 flights between SEA (and perhaps even PDX?) and LGB might not be much riskier than their recent expansion in other California markets like MRY and SBP..

All in all, though, WN is probably now free to grab as many LGB slots as it wants. It probably doesn't want many more than it already has and would be very happy to see no takers for the remaining mainline LGB slots, but even these days, at least one competitor could very well try and spoil things...


Don't think AS will be trying LGB any time soon. Much better to grow LAX, a hub, and SNA, a profitable spoke, than try to make LGB work. They also will probably be a little short on the 175 with all the announced flying out of LAX.

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