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Flflyer83
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
ScottB wrote:
LGB was always going to be problematic as any airline's key focus city or hub in a metro region as large as the L.A. Basin. 40-50 slots total aren't enough to offer competitive frequency and market breadth when compared to LAX or even SNA. It's not that different from trying to use HPN as a NYC focus city.


This is pretty much why WN is perfect for LGB, no? It fits in their strategy of blanketing all the airports in SoCal and the Bay Area much better than it does at a singular "Los Angeles" focus city for some carrier.


WN is adopting a very similar strategy of trying a bunch of routes out rather than providing a competitive schedule on the west coast stuff.


A competitive schedule to what? The other WN stations nearby?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:32 pm

tphuang wrote:

simply pointing out they have so far tried a very similar strategy as JetBlue with breadth rather than depth, which counters the comment I replied to. Of course, I don't expect them to stick with one strategy. I expect them to fail on their current strategy and try something else later.


I see both breadth AND depth in the WN strategy. The NoCal markets will probably have more O&D plus some connecting opportunities. LAS/PHX will have O&D plus a myriad of connections available while DEN/MDW/DAL/STL will probably be more connections plus some lesser O&D numbers. But the network LGB is plugged into with WN blows what B6 could offer out of the water. Will be interesting so see how this plays out.
 
tphuang
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:45 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
tphuang wrote:

simply pointing out they have so far tried a very similar strategy as JetBlue with breadth rather than depth, which counters the comment I replied to. Of course, I don't expect them to stick with one strategy. I expect them to fail on their current strategy and try something else later.


I see both breadth AND depth in the WN strategy. The NoCal markets will probably have more O&D plus some connecting opportunities. LAS/PHX will have O&D plus a myriad of connections available while DEN/MDW/DAL/STL will probably be more connections plus some lesser O&D numbers. But the network LGB is plugged into with WN blows what B6 could offer out of the water. Will be interesting so see how this plays out.


Just saying that they connected LGB to a few large stations does not mean it will work. JetBlue also connected LGB to their large stations at the east coast.

WN's schedule out of LGB to OAK/SJC/LAS/SMF is quite noticeably less than what it flies out of all the other LA area airport. That's what I mean by not having the depth. The reality is WN's fares out of LGB to these short haul west coast markets have significantly underachieved other LA area airports. That could either be an issue of not having enough slots to operate a comparable business schedule or could just be that LGB is incapable of attracting higher fared customers.

Keep in mind that AS with their great hub at SEA cannot make LGB work. And AS at SEA makes everything work.

UA did not chose to serve LGB to SFO or DEN even though they are the only one of big 3 that served PAE.

AA did not serve DFW until this past week's announcement. LGB-PHX significantly underachieved near by LA airports.

DL's LGB-SLC route also had lower fares than nearby LA airports.

I have nothing against WN despite certain accusations. Simply a factual look at how low yielding LGB is.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:08 pm

tphuang wrote:

Just saying that they connected LGB to a few large stations does not mean it will work. JetBlue also connected LGB to their large stations at the east coast.

WN's schedule out of LGB to OAK/SJC/LAS/SMF is quite noticeably less than what it flies out of all the other LA area airport. That's what I mean by not having the depth. The reality is WN's fares out of LGB to these short haul west coast markets have significantly underachieved other LA area airports. That could either be an issue of not having enough slots to operate a comparable business schedule or could just be that LGB is incapable of attracting higher fared customers.

Keep in mind that AS with their great hub at SEA cannot make LGB work. And AS at SEA makes everything work.

UA did not chose to serve LGB to SFO or DEN even though they are the only one of big 3 that served PAE.

AA did not serve DFW until this past week's announcement. LGB-PHX significantly underachieved near by LA airports.

DL's LGB-SLC route also had lower fares than nearby LA airports.

I have nothing against WN despite certain accusations. Simply a factual look at how low yielding LGB is.


B6 flying to the East Coast overflew most of the country and most connections would involve backtracking. The same could be argued with AS to SEA even with the large SEA-SoCal demand, so many other SoCal options. Slots are an issue as far as NoCal/LAS frequencies. UA/DL/AA all have LAX "hubs" and even though fly to other SoCal airports, LGB is probably in a bad spot between LAX and SNA to justify offering a scant few flights to their other hubs, again the slots issue. I'm not arguing the yield data you compile in regards to LGB. But WN is taking a different approach to LGB different from any airline that has served the airport in the past.

The network possibilities that WN offers now pale in comparison to previous airlines' service to/from LGB. Again, we'll see how this plays out.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:52 am

It's been awhile since we've heard anything regarding the DL slot allocation. Any news? They've held onto their slots thus far, and seemingly I'd expect them to do something with the remaining 8 slots they have.

MDGLGB
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:24 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
It's been awhile since we've heard anything regarding the DL slot allocation. Any news? They've held onto their slots thus far, and seemingly I'd expect them to do something with the remaining 8 slots they have.

MDGLGB


Given the out of control pandemic in California.
Along with the FAA granting slot allocation wavers at major airports like JFK,DCA and LGA until October 2021. The current Speculation is airports like LGB,PAE,SNA and other will follow suit in an extension of slots allocation wavers.

Flyguy
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:17 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
It's been awhile since we've heard anything regarding the DL slot allocation. Any news? They've held onto their slots thus far, and seemingly I'd expect them to do something with the remaining 8 slots they have.

MDGLGB

LGB sources saying this morning that DL told LGB it intends to return 7 slots back to airport.

Flyguy
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:00 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
It's been awhile since we've heard anything regarding the DL slot allocation. Any news? They've held onto their slots thus far, and seemingly I'd expect them to do something with the remaining 8 slots they have.

MDGLGB

LGB sources saying this morning that DL told LGB it intends to return 7 slots back to airport.

Flyguy


No one is gonna be shocked by this. The airport im sure expected this. It's easy to blame this on the pandemic, but i think Delta was set to return these eventually. They only wanted slots because B6 and then WN wanted them. It was a resource grab. I am guessing WN will go all in on wanting a monopoly operation and total fare pricing power. This whole thing is becoming a house of cards.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:12 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
It's been awhile since we've heard anything regarding the DL slot allocation. Any news? They've held onto their slots thus far, and seemingly I'd expect them to do something with the remaining 8 slots they have.

MDGLGB

LGB sources saying this morning that DL told LGB it intends to return 7 slots back to airport.

Flyguy


No one is gonna be shocked by this. The airport im sure expected this. It's easy to blame this on the pandemic, but i think Delta was set to return these eventually. They only wanted slots because B6 and then WN wanted them. It was a resource grab. I am guessing WN will go all in on wanting a monopoly operation and total fare pricing power. This whole thing is becoming a house of cards.


I think that has been a strategy at quite a few airports that have more or less become synonymous with WN - BWI, DAL, HOU, MDW and OAK spring to mind. I think WN now also dominates not one or two but all four of the secondary Greater Los Angeles airports that currently offer commercial service: BUR, LGB, ONT and SNA. I have to think anyone that seeks to avoid LAX has little choice but to give WN serious consideration!
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:21 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
No one is gonna be shocked by this. The airport im sure expected this. It's easy to blame this on the pandemic, but i think Delta was set to return these eventually. They only wanted slots because B6 and then WN wanted them. It was a resource grab. I am guessing WN will go all in on wanting a monopoly operation and total fare pricing power. This whole thing is becoming a house of cards.


No surprise at all, the ATL and SEA rumors have long subsided. I'm hoping WN will grab these slots and give us a true east coast destination like BWI to make up for the last unfulfilled market that B6 left back in October. The Hawaiian and American game is really unknown at this point, AA and HA are both pressured by WN, so it'll be interesting to see how they respond as such.

Coincidentally, I saw today that Delta loaded in mainline A320s to start on the SLC-LGB route starting on March 3rd. Does anyone here have any idea to what their future LGB plans are beyond dropping these 7 slots? How long will the process take until the 7 slots will be up for grabs? Who's on the slot waitlist right now?

Interesting times call for interesting measures.

MDGLGB
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:39 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
No one is gonna be shocked by this. The airport im sure expected this. It's easy to blame this on the pandemic, but i think Delta was set to return these eventually. They only wanted slots because B6 and then WN wanted them. It was a resource grab. I am guessing WN will go all in on wanting a monopoly operation and total fare pricing power. This whole thing is becoming a house of cards.


No surprise at all, the ATL and SEA rumors have long subsided. I'm hoping WN will grab these slots and give us a true east coast destination like BWI to make up for the last unfulfilled market that B6 left back in October. The Hawaiian and American game is really unknown at this point, AA and HA are both pressured by WN, so it'll be interesting to see how they respond as such.

Coincidentally, I saw today that Delta loaded in mainline A320s to start on the SLC-LGB route starting on March 3rd. Does anyone here have any idea to what their future LGB plans are beyond dropping these 7 slots? How long will the process take until the 7 slots will be up for grabs? Who's on the slot waitlist right now?

Interesting times call for interesting measures.

MDGLGB


I believe WN is still the only one on the wait list.
If WN gets 7 mores slots you would probably see OGG become permanent, KOA&LIH get added and see a 2nd HNL added. The remaining 3 BWI,BNA and ABQ.
That's my guess.

Flyguy
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:39 am

I think its just WN left who wants slots right? Delta and Hawaiian were on the list the last time, but wont be needing anymore slots. I mean unless Spirit or Frontier wants to use the opportunity to get into a new city, WN seems really likely to get them all.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:13 am

wnflyguy wrote:
I believe WN is still the only one on the wait list.
If WN gets 7 mores slots you would probably see OGG become permanent, KOA&LIH get added and see a 2nd HNL added. The remaining 3 BWI,BNA and ABQ.
That's my guess.

Flyguy


Additional Hawaii routes make sense as Southwest has established that LGB will be its Hawaii base for socal. I'm really hoping BWI is added, as the non-stop east coast convenience can't be outdone from a place like LGB. BNA and ABQ seem like a stretch, but hey, gotta put the slots to use somewhere.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I think its just WN left who wants slots right? Delta and Hawaiian were on the list the last time, but wont be needing anymore slots. I mean unless Spirit or Frontier wants to use the opportunity to get into a new city, WN seems really likely to get them all.


I suppose this means that Hawaiian doesn't desire to develop a expanded future with LGB then. F9 had its fair share of rumors back when B6 dropped its remaining 17 slots that eventually all got dumped into WN's hands. Has there been any new commotion regarding a F9 reunion with LGB as of late? All the blue, red and yellow tails are getting boring haha
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:40 pm

Will anybody want to get into Long Beach with delta giving back there slots? Or will all seven most likely go southwest to boost there Hawaii presence?
 
alohashirts
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:59 am

Wneast wrote:
Will anybody want to get into Long Beach with delta giving back there slots? Or will all seven most likely go southwest to boost there Hawaii presence?

I wonder if Breeze would be interested in the available slots. Maybe doing something such as LGB-PVU/BLI/ABQ/IDA etc might work for them.
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:01 am

alohashirts wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Will anybody want to get into Long Beach with delta giving back there slots? Or will all seven most likely go southwest to boost there Hawaii presence?

I wonder if Breeze would be interested in the available slots. Maybe doing something such as LGB-PVU/BLI/ABQ/IDA etc might work for them.

I bet Geg and BOI would work for them but will they be ready by March when there will only be 30 days tell the slots are given out ?
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:35 am

alohashirts wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Will anybody want to get into Long Beach with delta giving back there slots? Or will all seven most likely go southwest to boost there Hawaii presence?

I wonder if Breeze would be interested in the available slots. Maybe doing something such as LGB-PVU/BLI/ABQ/IDA etc might work for them.


I can't speak for Breeze as I'm not very familiar with their operations, but AAY had similar routes back in 2010/2011 and left LGB within a year. Spoke to spoke destinations typically haven't worked out from LGB, hence why we've seen larger destinations prevail over smaller, more niche routes.
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:38 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Will anybody want to get into Long Beach with delta giving back there slots? Or will all seven most likely go southwest to boost there Hawaii presence?

I wonder if Breeze would be interested in the available slots. Maybe doing something such as LGB-PVU/BLI/ABQ/IDA etc might work for them.


I can't speak for Breeze as I'm not very familiar with their operations, but AAY had similar routes back in 2010/2011 and left LGB within a year. Spoke to spoke destinations typically haven't worked out from LGB, hence why we've seen larger destinations prevail over smaller, more niche routes.
who do you think will get the slots ?
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:45 am

Wneast wrote:
who do you think will get the slots ?


Southwest has made it clear that they want a large presence at LGB, and gobbling up slots seems to be their game plan. I can't speak for what routes they'll add, but I'm fully expecting WN to "win" all 7 of the dropped DL slots. American, Delta, and Hawaiian have no intention of expanding at LGB at this time, and new carriers have had their opportunities in the past but haven't caved in. Expect more yellow/blue/red tails in a few months.
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:47 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Wneast wrote:
who do you think will get the slots ?


Southwest has made it clear that they want a large presence at LGB, and gobbling up slots seems to be their game plan. I can't speak for what routes they'll add, but I'm fully expecting WN to "win" all 7 of the dropped DL slots. American, Delta, and Hawaiian have no intention of expanding at LGB at this time, and new carriers have had their opportunities in the past but haven't caved in. Expect more yellow/blue/red tails in a few months.

I feel that will see more Hawaii flights probably ?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:10 pm

Wneast wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
I wonder if Breeze would be interested in the available slots. Maybe doing something such as LGB-PVU/BLI/ABQ/IDA etc might work for them.


I can't speak for Breeze as I'm not very familiar with their operations, but AAY had similar routes back in 2010/2011 and left LGB within a year. Spoke to spoke destinations typically haven't worked out from LGB, hence why we've seen larger destinations prevail over smaller, more niche routes.
who do you think will get the slots ?


I honestly do see anyone else but Southwest taking the 7 slots IF and when they become available.
This Post COVID environment has opened up LAX gate availability. BUR seen space open up.
ONT has tons of space.
SNA just raised the passenger/flight cap this year which saw Sun Country,Allegiant and Spirit jump into that market.

At LGB any new entrant is only guaranteed 2 permanent Slots. The remaining 5 slots are always subjected to the slot lottery allocation.
This dampens the possibilities for a sizable new market investment. WN is now in the power play position where JetBlue was it has enough slots to in a since scare away new entrants.

Flyguy
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:20 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
At LGB any new entrant is only guaranteed 2 permanent Slots. The remaining 5 slots are always subjected to the slot lottery allocation.
This dampens the possibilities for a sizable new market investment. WN is now in the power play position where JetBlue was it has enough slots to in a since scare away new entrants.

Flyguy



No one is going to waste their aircraft on LGB when there are so many more lucrative airports with space. Everyone predicted just what is now happening. The next step is when SWA realizes they can't get much $$ out of their flights in LGB and cut back, then the final bitter crop that LGB sowed gets reaped.
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:01 am

If avelo supposedly is being put on the slot list what would the most slots southwest can get out of the 7 delta slots if avelo gets some ?
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:38 pm

So the new WN routes + HA's OGG start in 4 days, and yet we're still radio silent on Delta's situation. I haven't seen any official reports stating that DL has dropped its slots, so what's their timeframe until they have to make a decision? They just flew an A321 on the SLC run today so it appears as if the loads are pretty good. I've been seeing speculation regarding Avelo Airlines having some interest in the airport, any truth in this?

MDGLGB
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:40 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
So the new WN routes + HA's OGG start in 4 days, and yet we're still radio silent on Delta's situation. I haven't seen any official reports stating that DL has dropped its slots, so what's their timeframe until they have to make a decision? They just flew an A321 on the SLC run today so it appears as if the loads are pretty good. I've been seeing speculation regarding Avelo Airlines having some interest in the airport, any truth in this?

MDGLGB

If avelo did get slots what’s the most southwest could get ?
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:00 am

Wneast wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
So the new WN routes + HA's OGG start in 4 days, and yet we're still radio silent on Delta's situation. I haven't seen any official reports stating that DL has dropped its slots, so what's their timeframe until they have to make a decision? They just flew an A321 on the SLC run today so it appears as if the loads are pretty good. I've been seeing speculation regarding Avelo Airlines having some interest in the airport, any truth in this?

MDGLGB

If avelo did get slots what’s the most southwest could get ?


It depends on how many slots are available. Every airline on the waiting list is guaranteed a slot, and then a lottery pursues after slots are allocated through the waitlist.
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:05 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Wneast wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
So the new WN routes + HA's OGG start in 4 days, and yet we're still radio silent on Delta's situation. I haven't seen any official reports stating that DL has dropped its slots, so what's their timeframe until they have to make a decision? They just flew an A321 on the SLC run today so it appears as if the loads are pretty good. I've been seeing speculation regarding Avelo Airlines having some interest in the airport, any truth in this?

MDGLGB

If avelo did get slots what’s the most southwest could get ?


It depends on how many slots are available. Every airline on the waiting list is guaranteed a slot, and then a lottery pursues after slots are allocated through the waitlist.

I have heard that southwest and if avelo was added those are they only ones on the waiting list so ?
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:36 am

Is there a update on if delta is still giving the slots back? Is it still happening, if so when should we see the slots be given to someone else ?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:16 pm

Wneast wrote:
Is there a update on if delta is still giving the slots back? Is it still happening, if so when should we see the slots be given to someone else ?

Heard this morning that LGB isn't going to enforce any minimum Slot usage requirements for the remainder of 2021.
But outer airlines can still use others unused slots on a 180 day temporary basis.
DL will now retain it's 12 slots until 2022.
But must submit 180 days in advance of resumption of slots that could be temporary allocated to other airlines.

Flyguy
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:31 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is there a update on if delta is still giving the slots back? Is it still happening, if so when should we see the slots be given to someone else ?

Heard this morning that LGB isn't going to enforce any minimum Slot usage requirements for the remainder of 2021.
But outer airlines can still use others unused slots on a 180 day temporary basis.
DL will now retain it's 12 slots until 2022.
But must submit 180 days in advance of resumption of slots that could be temporary allocated to other airlines.

Flyguy


This is a good sign. If DL is going to hold onto their slots, it somewhat foreshadows their future intentions at the airport. Hopefully this means they'll add something new, SEA/ATL were mentioned in rumors pre-COVID, so hopefully this injects new life into those possibilities.

MDG
 
Wneast
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:32 am

MDGLongBeach wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is there a update on if delta is still giving the slots back? Is it still happening, if so when should we see the slots be given to someone else ?

Heard this morning that LGB isn't going to enforce any minimum Slot usage requirements for the remainder of 2021.
But outer airlines can still use others unused slots on a 180 day temporary basis.
DL will now retain it's 12 slots until 2022.
But must submit 180 days in advance of resumption of slots that could be temporary allocated to other airlines.

Flyguy


This is a good sign. If DL is going to hold onto their slots, it somewhat foreshadows their future intentions at the airport. Hopefully this means they'll add something new, SEA/ATL were mentioned in rumors pre-COVID, so hopefully this injects new life into those possibilities.

MDG

So if southwest would want to increase there Hawaii flights they would have to decrease a frequency to some places or just use the 180 slots and hope that more slots will open up ?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:56 pm

Well heard that DL officially released And returned the 3 supplemental slots to LGB.
With no new entrants on the wait list and Hawaiian passed on additional slots.
WN will get 2 for a total of 36 flights a day.

AA will get 1 for a total of 4 flights a day.

DL will remain at 9 daily flights.
Currently at 5 to SLC and 4 ?
HA will remain at 2 daily flights.

Flyguy.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:44 pm

No surprise there. As many of us said, nobody wants the slots besides Southwest

And many of us have also questioned the viability of WN and their operation Long Term. They would have to do what nobody else has been able to do...make LGB work on a large scale.

Time will tell if it becomes an SNA or an ISP.

I still can’t believe they gave up EWR. phew
Last edited by jfklganyc on Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:48 pm

I've done a complete 180 and wish B6 never left LGB!!!! Is it too early to begin a prayer circle to bring B6 back to former levels? Small airports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large messes
 
Ishrion
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:54 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well heard that DL officially released And returned the 3 supplemental slots to LGB.
With no new entrants on the wait list and Hawaiian passed on additional slots.
WN will get 2 for a total of 36 flights a day.

AA will get 1 for a total of 4 flights a day.

DL will remain at 9 daily flights.
Currently at 5 to SLC and 4 ?
HA will remain at 2 daily flights.

Flyguy.


Will be interesting to see what AA does with the new slot. Return PHX-LGB to 3x daily while maintaining DFW-LGB at 1x daily? Or maybe... JFK-LGB with the A321T? :spin:
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:00 pm

Ishrion wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well heard that DL officially released And returned the 3 supplemental slots to LGB.
With no new entrants on the wait list and Hawaiian passed on additional slots.
WN will get 2 for a total of 36 flights a day.

AA will get 1 for a total of 4 flights a day.

DL will remain at 9 daily flights.
Currently at 5 to SLC and 4 ?
HA will remain at 2 daily flights.

Flyguy.


Will be interesting to see what AA does with the new slot. Return PHX-LGB to 3x daily while maintaining DFW-LGB at 1x daily? Or maybe... JFK-LGB with the A321T? :spin:


I remember years ago when AA flew LGB-JFK 2x daily with 757s in retaliation for B6 entering the market. I read that supposedly those flights did pretty well. Is that correct?

If AA were to add another secondary market with the A321T, I would think that SJC-JFK might be an opportunity given the recent mass discontinuance of SJC-New York area flights.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well heard that DL officially released And returned the 3 supplemental slots to LGB.
With no new entrants on the wait list and Hawaiian passed on additional slots.
WN will get 2 for a total of 36 flights a day.

AA will get 1 for a total of 4 flights a day.

DL will remain at 9 daily flights.
Currently at 5 to SLC and 4 ?
HA will remain at 2 daily flights.

Flyguy.


Will be interesting to see what AA does with the new slot. Return PHX-LGB to 3x daily while maintaining DFW-LGB at 1x daily? Or maybe... JFK-LGB with the A321T? :spin:


Summer schedule shows AA at 3 PHX and 1 DFW.

According to WN LGB sources they have already surpassed break even profitability for further booking on their 35 scheduled flights. Pending No more covid restrictions arise resulting in massive cancellations.

Rumor has WN adding additional Hawaii flight.
LGB-KOA-LGB Sun,Mon,Wed,Fri,
LGB-LIH-LGB Tue,Thur,Sat.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 23363
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:06 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
I've done a complete 180 and wish B6 never left LGB!!!! Is it too early to begin a prayer circle to bring B6 back to former levels? Small airports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large messes

I loved B6 at LGB. They just lacked a mid-America hub that was needed.

Lightsaber
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5274
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm

I think long beach is going to turn into a MHT or ISP. Fares very high except to a few cities. I really do think JetBlue was the absolute best case scenario for long beach. A focus city for JetBlue is a situation most airports would have killed for.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:57 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well heard that DL officially released And returned the 3 supplemental slots to LGB.
With no new entrants on the wait list and Hawaiian passed on additional slots.
WN will get 2 for a total of 36 flights a day.

AA will get 1 for a total of 4 flights a day.

DL will remain at 9 daily flights.
Currently at 5 to SLC and 4 ?
HA will remain at 2 daily flights.

Flyguy.


Will be interesting to see what AA does with the new slot. Return PHX-LGB to 3x daily while maintaining DFW-LGB at 1x daily? Or maybe... JFK-LGB with the A321T? :spin:


Summer schedule shows AA at 3 PHX and 1 DFW.


As mentioned, PHX is back to 3x daily on 76 seat aircraft. Back in summer of 2018, AA held a commuter slot and used a CR7 to make PHX 4x daily at the time except Saturdays. Obviously AA chose to go down the 76 seat route this time which makes sense as if DFW succeeds I believe they would rather go 2x to PHX and DFW down the road but there is no guarantee slots would be available at the rate WN is grabbing slots.
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:51 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well heard that DL officially released And returned the 3 supplemental slots to LGB.
With no new entrants on the wait list and Hawaiian passed on additional slots.
WN will get 2 for a total of 36 flights a day.

AA will get 1 for a total of 4 flights a day.

DL will remain at 9 daily flights.
Currently at 5 to SLC and 4 ?
HA will remain at 2 daily flights.

Flyguy.


Nothing about this surprises me except for Deltas desire to hold onto their 9 permanent slots. WN and AA gaining a few slots was a given, but I honestly expected DL to drop almost everything in favor of a 2/3x a day to SLC. I wonder whats in store for DL... LAS failed, and the SLC freq is already maxed out... maybe we will see SEA and ATL after all.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:11 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well

Flyguy.



According to WN LGB sources they have already surpassed break even profitability for further booking on their 35 scheduled flights. Pending No more covid restrictions arise resulting in massive cancellations.

Rumor has WN adding additional Hawaii flight.
LGB-KOA-LGB Sun,Mon,Wed,Fri,
LGB-LIH-LGB Tue,Thur,Sat.

Flyguy

Well, my guess is then, that you are in direct communication with the managers of LGB. Ask them for the schedule so we can see it. If they are telling you
about the revenue, then the schedule is no biggie. I would have thought that revenue would be a closely guarded secret, but I guess not. Are the new flights on the MAX8 or the NG? When are they starting? I need to buy a cheap ticket!!! I need to see the sand and smell fresh air!!
 
hbernal1
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:03 am

lightsaber wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
I've done a complete 180 and wish B6 never left LGB!!!! Is it too early to begin a prayer circle to bring B6 back to former levels? Small airports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large messes

I loved B6 at LGB. They just lacked a mid-America hub that was needed.

Lightsaber

As a former LA resident fed up with LAX and current Orange County resident who hates layovers and is disappointed with the lack of mid/transcon nonstop flight offerings from SNA, I agree with this statement. WN's entry did doom B6 at LGB and the focus city there was on life support in its last years. Although from my recollection, B6's flights to SEA/SLC did really well from LGB. That said, the yields were terrible and the city council's refusal to add FIS facilities pretty much meant that LGB was done. At least at LAX, B6 can envision having the 70-80 flight West Coast focus city operation always wanted, which would have never been possible at LGB.

WN adding more Hawaii flights is interesting, but I'm curious if secondary Hawaii markets like KOA/LIH can work from LGB. We'll see.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:22 am

hbernal1 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
I've done a complete 180 and wish B6 never left LGB!!!! Is it too early to begin a prayer circle to bring B6 back to former levels? Small airports >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large messes

I loved B6 at LGB. They just lacked a mid-America hub that was needed.

Lightsaber

As a former LA resident fed up with LAX and current Orange County resident who hates layovers and is disappointed with the lack of mid/transcon nonstop flight offerings from SNA, I agree with this statement. WN's entry did doom B6 at LGB and the focus city there was on life support in its last years. Although from my recollection, B6's flights to SEA/SLC did really well from LGB. That said, the yields were terrible and the city council's refusal to add FIS facilities pretty much meant that LGB was done. At least at LAX, B6 can envision having the 70-80 flight West Coast focus city operation always wanted, which would have never been possible at LGB.

WN adding more Hawaii flights is interesting, but I'm curious if secondary Hawaii markets like KOA/LIH can work from LGB. We'll see.


That is the biggest misconception of what the non loyal rapid rewards southwest people view LGB as.
Thankfully WN knows that LGB is a center point between TWO of its HUGEST Loyal Customers catchment areas.
It offers a stress free airport experience with cheap parking and 5 freeways feeding the airport. WN views LGB as a great LA/OC gateway city to Hawaii.
So WN shouldn't have any problem filling flights to both cities especially if the less than daily schedule
Is true.

Flyguy
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5274
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:51 am

WN didn't make B6 leave long beach. It was the city council that made JetBlue leave the city. If JetBlue never returned slots wn wouldn't have had enough slots to be a threat.

JetBlue had a few routes that worked for sure but they wanted a complete exit. It was a statement exit.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:32 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
WN didn't make B6 leave long beach. It was the city council that made JetBlue leave the city. If JetBlue never returned slots wn wouldn't have had enough slots to be a threat.

JetBlue had a few routes that worked for sure but they wanted a complete exit. It was a statement exit.

Correct. Also if JB would have been successful in buying Virgin America they would have double down on LAX and SFO overnight using all the aircraft dedicated to LGB for the merger.
I've said before LGB probably would have just withered down to SFO and LAS feeder spoke.

Flyguy
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:37 pm

hbernal1 wrote:
As a former LA resident fed up with LAX and current Orange County resident who hates layovers and is disappointed with the lack of mid/transcon nonstop flight offerings from SNA, I agree with this statement. WN's entry did doom B6 at LGB and the focus city there was on life support in its last years. Although from my recollection, B6's flights to SEA/SLC did really well from LGB. That said, the yields were terrible and the city council's refusal to add FIS facilities pretty much meant that LGB was done. At least at LAX, B6 can envision having the 70-80 flight West Coast focus city operation always wanted, which would have never been possible at LGB.


WN's entry into LGB might have hastened B6's exit absent Covid, but as you acknowledge yourself, LGB was never going to be an operation with 70-80 daily flights thanks to the slots. B6 in 2021 is a very different carrier than in 2001; products like Mint are aimed at airports like LAX and SFO, not LGB or OAK. JFK-LAX was planned to be 11x daily pre-Covid; compare that to 2x daily for JFK-LGB. With gates opening up at LAX due to Covid and B6 becoming much more like a legacy carrier, it was obvious the focus operation would move to LAX.

FIS or no FIS, B6 was going to be done at LGB. OK, they might have kept a handful of flights at LGB to pretend they were still committed to the airport, but let's not pretend they'd be flying the kind of schedule they were back in 2005.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5274
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:05 am

ScottB wrote:
hbernal1 wrote:
As a former LA resident fed up with LAX and current Orange County resident who hates layovers and is disappointed with the lack of mid/transcon nonstop flight offerings from SNA, I agree with this statement. WN's entry did doom B6 at LGB and the focus city there was on life support in its last years. Although from my recollection, B6's flights to SEA/SLC did really well from LGB. That said, the yields were terrible and the city council's refusal to add FIS facilities pretty much meant that LGB was done. At least at LAX, B6 can envision having the 70-80 flight West Coast focus city operation always wanted, which would have never been possible at LGB.


WN's entry into LGB might have hastened B6's exit absent Covid, but as you acknowledge yourself, LGB was never going to be an operation with 70-80 daily flights thanks to the slots. B6 in 2021 is a very different carrier than in 2001; products like Mint are aimed at airports like LAX and SFO, not LGB or OAK. JFK-LAX was planned to be 11x daily pre-Covid; compare that to 2x daily for JFK-LGB. With gates opening up at LAX due to Covid and B6 becoming much more like a legacy carrier, it was obvious the focus operation would move to LAX.

FIS or no FIS, B6 was going to be done at LGB. OK, they might have kept a handful of flights at LGB to pretend they were still committed to the airport, but let's not pretend they'd be flying the kind of schedule they were back in 2005.


I absolutely think B6 would have kept the focus city and gone after every slot they could get if the city had treated them fairly. They just did a total exit because long beach was way too hard to work with. B6 put up trailers, portable toilets and vending machines. Long Beach could have very easily complimented LAX with leisure destinations out of long beach. There's alot of OC customers who will use Long Beach but will never consider the trip to LAX and dealing with that airport. Jetblue left alot of customers moving to LAX. The airports could have been very complimentary like Delta at JFK and LGA. Or jetblue in pretty much the entire northeastern united states. LAX made sense because frankly the airline was over dealing with Long Beach. Hence the brutal total exit from the airport. Long Beach focus city would have been a nice compliment to LAX for the So Cal market for jetblue
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:04 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
WN didn't make B6 leave long beach. It was the city council that made JetBlue leave the city. If JetBlue never returned slots wn wouldn't have had enough slots to be a threat.

JetBlue had a few routes that worked for sure but they wanted a complete exit. It was a statement exit.

Absolutely correct
 
MDGLongBeach
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Long Beach (LGB) increasing number of air carrier slots

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:01 pm

Looks like FedEx is giving up their last remaining slot. They've been here for more than 30 years. Airlines have until September 17th to notify airport officials if they want the slot. The current waitlist in order is as follows: Hawaiian, Delta, Southwest and then American. (https://lbpost.com/news/fedex-to-give-u ... n-30-years)

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