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Williamsb747
Topic Author
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:45 am

United airlines to Cape Town is bookable from Newark to Cape Town starting the 25th of October 2020, previously only flying from the 15th of December in 2019, B787-9 operating all 3 weekly flights.

This route must have been extremely well received if united can start service almost 2 months earlier.



https://www.united.com/ual/en/US/flight ... True&idx=1
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
blacksoviet
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:55 am

Does the 788 not have enough range?
 
Williamsb747
Topic Author
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:03 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 788 not have enough range?


More than enough at 8785 mi and distance needed being 7817 mi. I'm guessing demand requires the bigger B787-9.
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
eamondzhang
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:49 am

Williamsb747 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 788 not have enough range?


More than enough at 8785 mi and distance needed being 7817 mi. I'm guessing demand requires the bigger B787-9.

Don't believe that being the case with 788 having a shorter range than 789. Published range by manufacturers is always unreal....

Michael
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:13 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 788 not have enough range?


More than enough at 8785 mi and distance needed being 7817 mi. I'm guessing demand requires the bigger B787-9.

Don't believe that being the case with 788 having a shorter range than 789. Published range by manufacturers is always unreal....

Michael

So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:25 am

blacksoviet wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:

More than enough at 8785 mi and distance needed being 7817 mi. I'm guessing demand requires the bigger B787-9.

Don't believe that being the case with 788 having a shorter range than 789. Published range by manufacturers is always unreal....

Michael

So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.


Boeing cites a longer range for the -9 than the -8. https://www.boeing.com/commercial/787/#/technical-specs
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
I'm saying 788 has less range than 789. And you do see 789s flying longer missions than 788.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Boeing cites a longer range for the -9 than the -8. https://www.boeing.com/commercial/787/#/technical-specs

Thank you.

Michael
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:47 am

Williamsb747 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 788 not have enough range?


More than enough at 8785 mi and distance needed being 7817 mi. I'm guessing demand requires the bigger B787-9.


EWR to CPT is flown with the 789 not the 788.
 
flymad
Posts: 101
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:37 pm

Arrival CPT 16h00 departure 17h50 . Is that not a bit tight for 789 turnaround?
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1785
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:01 pm

flymad wrote:
Arrival CPT 16h00 departure 17h50 . Is that not a bit tight for 789 turnaround?

I've seen A380 operating with that turnaround just fine so it should not be an issue. Similar sized aircraft can all turn in 1.5h. Heck SQ had 55min scheduled turn for a 77W in MEL/CBR with crew change and refuel.

Michael
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:08 pm

flymad wrote:
Arrival CPT 16h00 departure 17h50 . Is that not a bit tight for 789 turnaround?


Dates I searched had a 17h00 arrival and 20h50 departure, which is similar to its current timing.
 
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smithbs
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:50 pm

I'm curious on the 789 performance westbound (into headwinds). Does anyone know the flight time westbound vs eastbound? Do they still manage heavy loads out of CPT?
 
codc10
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:06 pm

smithbs wrote:
I'm curious on the 789 performance westbound (into headwinds). Does anyone know the flight time westbound vs eastbound? Do they still manage heavy loads out of CPT?


I have no insight into actual loads but UA1123 ran its inaugural a few days ago at 15:07 takeoff to touchdown, with what appeared to be a pretty healthy pax count... saw only about 20 empties in Y.

Eastbound, the first UA1122 was right at 14 hours, and last night's delayed flight (the 2nd eastbound) is still airborne, but targeting about 13:30 with what looks like a full house.
 
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Acey559
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:33 pm

Not indicative of overall performance, but tomorrow’s (12/20) EWR-CPT is completely full. The return is less so but almost completely full in Polaris. Hopefully it does well for a long time to come!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
FSDan
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:24 pm

flymad wrote:
Arrival CPT 16h00 departure 17h50 . Is that not a bit tight for 789 turnaround?


1 hr 50 mins is the standard international-international turnaround time for 789s at UA. When they fly domestic turns, it can be less.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
jetsetter629
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:29 pm

This flight will do well and will stick for years to come and I believe it very closely resembles the PPT route. High yielding Y and C will continue to make this profitable compounded with the great costs of the 789. I work in luxury travel and we'll be selling this flight a lot. Had no doubt it would return but it's excellent news to see the season extended longer in 2020-2021
 
SQ317
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:38 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:

More than enough at 8785 mi and distance needed being 7817 mi. I'm guessing demand requires the bigger B787-9.

Don't believe that being the case with 788 having a shorter range than 789. Published range by manufacturers is always unreal....

Michael

So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.


Why does it look like it should have more range? The 788s MTOW is 26t less than the 789. Therefore, with a full payload, it can carry significantly less fuel than the -9, hence the lower range.
 
jumpseat67
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:07 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:42 pm

#1122 EWR-CPT
Sun Dec 15 (13:58) actual
Wed Dec 18 (13:33) actual

#1123 CPT-EWR
Mon Dec 16 (15:07) actual
Thu Dec 19 (15:19) planned
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Acey559 wrote:
Not indicative of overall performance, but tomorrow’s (12/20) EWR-CPT is completely full. The return is less so but almost completely full in Polaris. Hopefully it does well for a long time to come!


Great for UA. Less great for my GPU (or whatever it's called now) chances in February.

Having been to and enjoyed Cape Town a few times now, hearing the success of this flight has been a great joy.

Hopefully that continues onwards.
 
grjplanes
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:47 pm

Is this flight now one of the longest flights almost 100% over water?
Just watching on FR24 seeing UA1123 departing CPT...3mins after departure it goes over the ocean, and 15hours later only will see land again with descend...par maybe a few small islands like StHelena
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1991
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:47 pm

FSDan wrote:
flymad wrote:
Arrival CPT 16h00 departure 17h50 . Is that not a bit tight for 789 turnaround?


1 hr 50 mins is the standard international-international turnaround time for 789s at UA. When they fly domestic turns, it can be less.


When UA was operating MEL exclusively from LAX (UA 98/99) the turn around was also pretty tight. Arrival in the Northern Hemisphere Winter was 9:25am and departure was 11am.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:16 pm

SQ317 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Don't believe that being the case with 788 having a shorter range than 789. Published range by manufacturers is always unreal....

Michael

So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.


Why does it look like it should have more range? The 788s MTOW is 26t less than the 789. Therefore, with a full payload, it can carry significantly less fuel than the -9, hence the lower range.

Boeing should add additional fuel tanks so that the 788 gets more orders.
 
flight152
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:28 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.


Why does it look like it should have more range? The 788s MTOW is 26t less than the 789. Therefore, with a full payload, it can carry significantly less fuel than the -9, hence the lower range.

Boeing should add additional fuel tanks so that the 788 gets more orders.

So they can carry less passengers?
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:29 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.


Why does it look like it should have more range? The 788s MTOW is 26t less than the 789. Therefore, with a full payload, it can carry significantly less fuel than the -9, hence the lower range.

Boeing should add additional fuel tanks so that the 788 gets more orders.


Ok gotta ask....why the over the top love for the 788? The 789 flies further and carries more people. If CPT can fill a 789 then why fly a smaller airplane?
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:30 pm

grjplanes wrote:
Is this flight now one of the longest flights almost 100% over water?
Just watching on FR24 seeing UA1123 departing CPT...3mins after departure it goes over the ocean, and 15hours later only will see land again with descend...par maybe a few small islands like StHelena


Interesting question. I pulled a few West Coast to SYD routes on the top of mind, longest was YVR-SYD, but even there EWR-CPT is slightly longer by gc distance.

By gc routing, SFO-SIN or LAX-SIN kind of qualify though they seem to touch the top end ofthe Philippines. But looking at flightradar the route normally crosses the Philippines more substantially.
 
alggag
Posts: 434
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:45 pm

I'm confused, how is 25 October 2020 two months earlier than 15 December 2019?
 
UALFAson
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:06 pm

alggag wrote:
I'm confused, how is 25 October 2020 two months earlier than 15 December 2019?


I think the assumption is that if the flight started 15 December 2019 this year, seasonal service would potentially resume 15 December 2020 next year, but it's not--it's starting almost 2 months earlier.

Which, presumably, is a good sign that demand is strong and UA thinks they can fill the plane even starting earlier in the season.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
alggag
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:34 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:53 pm

UALFAson wrote:
alggag wrote:
I'm confused, how is 25 October 2020 two months earlier than 15 December 2019?


I think the assumption is that if the flight started 15 December 2019 this year, seasonal service would potentially resume 15 December 2020 next year, but it's not--it's starting almost 2 months earlier.

Which, presumably, is a good sign that demand is strong and UA thinks they can fill the plane even starting earlier in the season.


:thumbsup:

Ah, that makes sense.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United airlines Cape Town

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:29 am

What is the season for this flight? I have vacation in February and still dont have plans. :bouncy:
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Williamsb747
Topic Author
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:58 am

TWA772LR wrote:
What is the season for this flight? I have vacation in February and still dont have plans. :bouncy:

Current schedule for 2019/2020 is december 15 till march. Next year is from 25th October till we guessing March as well but we have to wait and see.
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
SQ317
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:22 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
So you are saying that Boeing intentionally undersells the range of the 788?

What is the point of this?

The 788 looks like it should have more range than the 789.


Why does it look like it should have more range? The 788s MTOW is 26t less than the 789. Therefore, with a full payload, it can carry significantly less fuel than the -9, hence the lower range.

Boeing should add additional fuel tanks so that the 788 gets more orders.


It's not limited by fuel capacity though, it's limited by MTOW
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:35 pm

SQ317 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
SQ317 wrote:

Why does it look like it should have more range? The 788s MTOW is 26t less than the 789. Therefore, with a full payload, it can carry significantly less fuel than the -9, hence the lower range.

Boeing should add additional fuel tanks so that the 788 gets more orders.


It's not limited by fuel capacity though, it's limited by MTOW

Why can’t Boeing increase the MTOW on the 788?
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United airlines Cape Town

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:44 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Boeing should add additional fuel tanks so that the 788 gets more orders.


It's not limited by fuel capacity though, it's limited by MTOW

Why can’t Boeing increase the MTOW on the 788?


Why should they? Make your case.

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