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SRQLOT
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Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:52 pm

Airbuses to the rescue!! Never thought I would say that!! I think this deserves its own thread.

LOT will wet lease 4 Airbus 320 in 2020, in January 2 will arrive and 2 more in February. They will join the 1 A320 currently flying in a wet lease.

Also 20% of LOTs fleet is not flying, mainly due to scheduled maintenance for winter, but 5 and what should be 12-15 737-M8s and now 6 787s. One of the 787 is getting a C check.

Now 3 Airbus 340s from Air Belgium are flying for LOT, but Long haul flights are getting cancelled, something I would not expect in slow season.

This is rough and although LOT managed to keep the 15% increase in flights over last summer the fleet needs maintenance and these RR and Boeing issues are not helping. With that LOT has to delay some starts of routes or cut down on frequencies for the new routes

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/42926 ... ,a320.html

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/42921 ... ruchu.html
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
AZa346
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:14 pm

Who is operating the A320 for them???
 
SRQLOT
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Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:18 pm

AZa346 wrote:
Who is operating the A320 for them???


Avión Express, I don’t really know much about them.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
JamesCousins
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:37 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
AZa346 wrote:
Who is operating the A320 for them???


Avión Express, I don’t really know much about them.


They're a Lithuanian charter airline, do a lot of work for Jet2, TUI and historically Thomas Cook in the Summer peak seasons over here in Europe. Aircraft tend to be 2nd hand planes from large carriers, and many are fitted out with slimline seats (the same type used by Jet2 with the dinky arm rests).
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
SRQLOT
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:45 pm

Any words on when Azul is removing their E jets? And if it is true LOT will get some.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1179
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:58 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
AZa346 wrote:
Who is operating the A320 for them???


Avión Express, I don’t really know much about them.


They're a Lithuanian charter airline, do a lot of work for Jet2, TUI and historically Thomas Cook in the Summer peak seasons over here in Europe. Aircraft tend to be 2nd hand planes from large carriers, and many are fitted out with slimline seats (the same type used by Jet2 with the dinky arm rests).


Several Thomas Cook UK aircraft inducted by them recently.
 
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MaxiAir
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:24 pm

SRQLOT wrote:

Now 3 Airbus 340s from Air Belgium are flying for LOT, but Long haul flights are getting cancelled, something I would not expect in slow season.



Only 2 Air Belgium ones are flying for LOT, the third one is Hifly's 9H-SUN

OO-ABA is operating for Surinam, OO-ABB their own flights to Gouadeloupe/Martinique, so OO-ABD and OO-ABE are with LOT

___________

The LOT 787 fleet

788
SP-LRA - active
SP-LRB - inactive since 11 Dec
SP-LRC - inactive since 06 Dec
SP-LRD - active
SP-LRE - inactive since 18 Sep
SP-LRF - active - today no flight
SP-LRG - active
SP-LRH - active

789
SP-LSA - active
SP-LSB - active
SP-LSC - active
SP-LSD - active
SP-LSE - inactive since 30 Sep
SP-LSF - inactive since 26 Nov
SP-LSG - active
Flown on - 306,313,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,345,346,359,35K,388, 712,733,734,735,736,73G,738,744,748,752,753,763,77E,77L,77W, 788, 789, M11, M1F, M88, CR7,CR9, E35,E45,E75,E90,E95, AR1,AR8, DHT,DH1,DH4, and some more ;)
 
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oxonrow
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:04 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:34 pm

What is wrong with all the 787s? RR engine issues? Why does it take this long?
 
A388
Posts: 7981
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:19 pm

MaxiAir wrote:
Only 2 Air Belgium ones are flying for LOT, the third one is Hifly's 9H-SUN

OO-ABA is operating for Surinam, OO-ABB their own flights to Gouadeloupe/Martinique, so OO-ABD and OO-ABE are with LOT


Air Belgium is doing good business at the moment. They were in financial difficulty some time ago so I hope they will survive.

I love their special livery for their Guadeloupe and Martinique flights.

A388
 
Blerg
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:44 pm

Is LO number one airline in Europe (maybe beyond?) in terms of fleet diversity? They operate so many different models from E70 and Q400 to A340 and B789.
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:57 pm

oxonrow wrote:
What is wrong with all the 787s? RR engine issues? Why does it take this long?


LRB is having C-check. The other 4 (out of 15 total) are grounded due to RR engine issues.
 
pdp
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:17 pm

Blerg wrote:
Is LO number one airline in Europe (maybe beyond?) in terms of fleet diversity? They operate so many different models from E70 and Q400 to A340 and B789.


Off the top of my head:

DH8D
E170
E175
E190
E195
CRJ7 (Nordica)
CRJ9 (Nordica)
A319 (GoJet?)
A320 (SmartLynx too?)
B733
B734
B737? (Blue Air)
B738
B38M
B788
B789
A343 (Air Belgium)

Plus a Tecnam and a few other light aircraft of some description.

Quite a fleet!
 
Blerg
Posts: 3907
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:26 pm

pdp wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Is LO number one airline in Europe (maybe beyond?) in terms of fleet diversity? They operate so many different models from E70 and Q400 to A340 and B789.


Off the top of my head:

DH8D
E170
E175
E190
E195
CRJ7 (Nordica)
CRJ9 (Nordica)
A319 (GoJet?)
A320 (SmartLynx too?)
B733
B734
B737? (Blue Air)
B738
B38M
B788
B789
A343 (Air Belgium)

Plus a Tecnam and a few other light aircraft of some description.

Quite a fleet!


What a collection. All we are missing is the E-145, Tu-154 and IL-62 to complete the list.
 
pdp
Posts: 244
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:53 pm

Blerg wrote:
pdp wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Is LO number one airline in Europe (maybe beyond?) in terms of fleet diversity? They operate so many different models from E70 and Q400 to A340 and B789.


Off the top of my head:

DH8D
E170
E175
E190
E195
CRJ7 (Nordica)
CRJ9 (Nordica)
A319 (GoJet?)
A320 (SmartLynx too?)
B733
B734
B737? (Blue Air)
B738
B38M
B788
B789
A343 (Air Belgium)

Plus a Tecnam and a few other light aircraft of some description.

Quite a fleet!


What a collection. All we are missing is the E-145, Tu-154 and IL-62 to complete the list.


Last time I was in WAW they'd pulled out the E145s and plonked them on the maintenance ramp, no idea where they'd come from or why they were there!
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:06 pm

Blerg wrote:
pdp wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Is LO number one airline in Europe (maybe beyond?) in terms of fleet diversity? They operate so many different models from E70 and Q400 to A340 and B789.


Off the top of my head:

DH8D
E170
E175
E190
E195
CRJ7 (Nordica)
CRJ9 (Nordica)
A319 (GoJet?)
A320 (SmartLynx too?)
B733
B734
B737? (Blue Air)
B738
B38M
B788
B789
A343 (Air Belgium)

Plus a Tecnam and a few other light aircraft of some description.

Quite a fleet!


What a collection. All we are missing is the E-145, Tu-154 and IL-62 to complete the list.


The actual list is a bit shorter, because the list above contains also wet-leased planes.

The dry-leased planes are as follows:

E170+E175 (total 16)

E190 (leased in order to fly to LCY) +E195 (total 19)

DH8D (total 12)

- medium haul

B738 (total 7, their numer increased this year due to Max grounding, otherwise it was decreasing as they were supposed to be replaced by more Max)

B73M

- long haul

B788+B789

- other

B737 (just one short term dry lease due to MAX grounding)

B734 (all 3 to be returned to the lessor by end of February 2020)

LO actually owns only 3 planes (E145), but they are not flying. They were sold to Ukrainian company Dniproavia, but it went bankrupt before it collected these planes.
 
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GCT64
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:24 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
Any words on when Azul is removing their E jets? And if it is true LOT will get some.


Seven E195s from Azul are in service at LOT: SP-LNG thru SP-LNN (excluding LNJ)
LOT also has two E195s from Borajet (SP-LNO & LNP)
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
SRQLOT
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Posts: 457
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:36 pm

GCT64 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Any words on when Azul is removing their E jets? And if it is true LOT will get some.


Seven E195s from Azul are in service at LOT: SP-LNG thru SP-LNN (excluding LNJ)
LOT also has two E195s from Borajet (SP-LNO & LNP)



There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
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OceanAir
Posts: 22
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:05 am

SRQLOT wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Any words on when Azul is removing their E jets? And if it is true LOT will get some.


Seven E195s from Azul are in service at LOT: SP-LNG thru SP-LNN (excluding LNJ)
LOT also has two E195s from Borajet (SP-LNO & LNP)



There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3475
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:51 am

artflyer wrote:
Blerg wrote:
pdp wrote:

Off the top of my head:

DH8D
E170
E175
E190
E195
CRJ7 (Nordica)
CRJ9 (Nordica)
A319 (GoJet?)
A320 (SmartLynx too?)
B733
B734
B737? (Blue Air)
B738
B38M
B788
B789
A343 (Air Belgium)

Plus a Tecnam and a few other light aircraft of some description.

Quite a fleet!


What a collection. All we are missing is the E-145, Tu-154 and IL-62 to complete the list.


The actual list is a bit shorter, because the list above contains also wet-leased planes.

The dry-leased planes are as follows:

E170+E175 (total 16)

E190 (leased in order to fly to LCY) +E195 (total 19)

DH8D (total 12)

- medium haul

B738 (total 7, their numer increased this year due to Max grounding, otherwise it was decreasing as they were supposed to be replaced by more Max)

B73M

- long haul

B788+B789

- other

B737 (just one short term dry lease due to MAX grounding)

B734 (all 3 to be returned to the lessor by end of February 2020)

LO actually owns only 3 planes (E145), but they are not flying. They were sold to Ukrainian company Dniproavia, but it went bankrupt before it collected these planes.


Aren't 7 of the 8 B788s also owned? (The B789s are all leased.)
 
airzona11
Posts: 1729
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:43 am

OceanAir wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
GCT64 wrote:

Seven E195s from Azul are in service at LOT: SP-LNG thru SP-LNN (excluding LNJ)
LOT also has two E195s from Borajet (SP-LNO & LNP)



There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


Congrats for suggestions that would financially trash LO. I do hope this is not a serious post.
 
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OceanAir
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:27 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:01 am

airzona11 wrote:
OceanAir wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:


There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


Congrats for suggestions that would financially trash LO. I do hope this is not a serious post.


Sure is. The current situation is what's trash.
 
Blerg
Posts: 3907
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:21 am

airzona11 wrote:
OceanAir wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:


There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


Congrats for suggestions that would financially trash LO. I do hope this is not a serious post.


And this mess with downgrades and leases isn't harming LO? What damage did it to do the brand when someone who was supposed to fly on a brand new B788 ended up flying on an ancient, archaic B767? I think the management gambled way too much. They expanded too fast while relying on brand new, unproven planes (787 and MAX).
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:15 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
artflyer wrote:
Blerg wrote:

What a collection. All we are missing is the E-145, Tu-154 and IL-62 to complete the list.


The actual list is a bit shorter, because the list above contains also wet-leased planes.

The dry-leased planes are as follows:

E170+E175 (total 16)

E190 (leased in order to fly to LCY) +E195 (total 19)

DH8D (total 12)

- medium haul

B738 (total 7, their numer increased this year due to Max grounding, otherwise it was decreasing as they were supposed to be replaced by more Max)

B73M

- long haul

B788+B789

- other

B737 (just one short term dry lease due to MAX grounding)

B734 (all 3 to be returned to the lessor by end of February 2020)

LO actually owns only 3 planes (E145), but they are not flying. They were sold to Ukrainian company Dniproavia, but it went bankrupt before it collected these planes.


Aren't 7 of the 8 B788s also owned? (The B789s are all leased.)


The 8 B788 are still in operational lease with Boing's financial arm. The term of the lease for the first frame ends December 2020.

The B789 are all in financial lease with various lessors (including 2 B789 coming spring 2020).
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:02 am

airzona11 wrote:
OceanAir wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:


There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


Congrats for suggestions that would financially trash LO. I do hope this is not a serious post.


People are joking that LO should now be leasing just new engines, because it has enough lh bodies.

But on a serious note: B787 indeed helped a lot in 2015. This was when restrictions on LO operations imposed by the european commision finally expired. These were due to state aid received by LO in 2012, when it got into trouble mainly because of unfortunate hedging agreements signed couple of years earlier. Still LO was financially dying also in 2015. Really no cash at hand. Almost no owned planes. That was probably an all intended outcome of these restrictions. One of a very limited number of reasons that LO actually managed to survive was B787, which at that time were flying again after their teething problems. They allowed LO to profitably regain market share of Polish TATL and it provided LO with a steady flow of cash to finance its revival. At that time that meant reopening profitable routes and frequences earlier forcible closed under the european commission decision.

It is all different now. MAX grounding means for LO that a) they cannot bring in transfer pax to properly fill their longhaul, b) they cannot win a race to get the last available slots in WAW. Wet leases help only to an extent here. They cannot just extend usage of NG, because MAX were for fleet expansion and not renewal.

In turn RR engine issues (in fact their quality seems very low in many aspects) are disrupting the lh operations and giving a blow to the trademark.

I think that when LO management openly mentions leasing of A for lh they may be very serious this time.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:19 am

OceanAir wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
GCT64 wrote:

Seven E195s from Azul are in service at LOT: SP-LNG thru SP-LNN (excluding LNJ)
LOT also has two E195s from Borajet (SP-LNO & LNP)



There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


On a light hearted side, last I heard on OceanAir they went bankrupt in Brazil... I hope your comments do not reflect your username. - Only Joking...

On a more serious note, to consider that LOT should wipe out their whole LH and replace by Airbuses which are simply not available in the market raises concerns. They do nto have issues with their 787s - it is just the normal maintenance.

As for the E-Jets, there's nothing wrong in what they are doing. AZ is a quite reputable airline belonging to the same onwer which controls JetBlue (B6) and TAP (TP) and there's no shame in purchase their not so old frames while they get the E2s they purchased by a good price from Embraer. Simply pure economics. BA was a while ago in the hunt for some pre-owned A380s too.

Maybe you should consider also not directing your hartred cheaply to Boeing - it is not their direct fault that LOT may be the way they are. Mind you, you suggest that they should fire the whole management (which would cost a literal fortune in pay-outs) and replace by execs that worked in Gulf Airlines but you forget that they are only afloat due to Government subsidies (which Poland cannot offer neither afford).
 
gloom
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:38 am

Jomar777 wrote:
On a more serious note, to consider that LOT should wipe out their whole LH and replace by Airbuses which are simply not available in the market raises concerns.


While I agree it makes no sense to replace 787s with 330/350s, you are not right they're not avail. I think Hainans and HKAs 359 would make a pretty decent fleet for quick transformation. So, it's probably possible, even if not plausible.

Cheers,
Adam
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 am

gloom wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
On a more serious note, to consider that LOT should wipe out their whole LH and replace by Airbuses which are simply not available in the market raises concerns.


While I agree it makes no sense to replace 787s with 330/350s, you are not right they're not avail. I think Hainans and HKAs 359 would make a pretty decent fleet for quick transformation. So, it's probably possible, even if not plausible.

Cheers,
Adam


I don't think we are talking about wiping out the lh Boing fleet, but rather doing more risk splitting by ordering also some Airbus rather than staying all Boing. That would make sense particularily now when Boing means for LO RR engines.

With RR LO had recently issues like grounding a month old plane for non-compressor related engine problems.
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:11 am

Jomar777 wrote:
OceanAir wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:


There is talk that LOT will get more Ejets from Azul as Azul receives new E2s.


Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


On a light hearted side, last I heard on OceanAir they went bankrupt in Brazil... I hope your comments do not reflect your username. - Only Joking...

On a more serious note, to consider that LOT should wipe out their whole LH and replace by Airbuses which are simply not available in the market raises concerns. They do nto have issues with their 787s - it is just the normal maintenance.

As for the E-Jets, there's nothing wrong in what they are doing. AZ is a quite reputable airline belonging to the same onwer which controls JetBlue (B6) and TAP (TP) and there's no shame in purchase their not so old frames while they get the E2s they purchased by a good price from Embraer. Simply pure economics. BA was a while ago in the hunt for some pre-owned A380s too.

Maybe you should consider also not directing your hartred cheaply to Boeing - it is not their direct fault that LOT may be the way they are. Mind you, you suggest that they should fire the whole management (which would cost a literal fortune in pay-outs) and replace by execs that worked in Gulf Airlines but you forget that they are only afloat due to Government subsidies (which Poland cannot offer neither afford).


E195s make perfect sense for LO, since different than Azul LO would use them mostly on short distances, meaning fuel consumption means less for LO than for Azul. Medium haul was expected to be done mostly by MAX.

Given that in their new base in BUD, despite lower demand, they decided to base only E195, I think the decision is clear - to slowly limit all E to E195 (plus a handful of E190 for LCY flying).
 
debonair
Posts: 3763
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:26 am

SRQLOT wrote:
LOT will wet lease 4 Airbus 320 in 2020, in January 2 will arrive and 2 more in February. They will join the 1 A320 currently flying in a wet lease.


I have lost the oversight... Can anybody give an insight into LOT's subcharter fleet from 2020? So, we have 4 Avion Express A320, 2 AirBelgium A340 - what about leases from GetJet and Blue Air?
 
artflyer
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:31 am

debonair wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
LOT will wet lease 4 Airbus 320 in 2020, in January 2 will arrive and 2 more in February. They will join the 1 A320 currently flying in a wet lease.


I have lost the oversight... Can anybody give an insight into LOT's subcharter fleet from 2020? So, we have 4 Avion Express A320, 2 AirBelgium A340 - what about leases from GetJet and Blue Air?


currently wet leased:
2 AirBelgium A340
1 HiFly A340
4 Avion Express A320 (since the middle/end of January 2020)
1 GetJet A320
+ some CRJ from Nordica (a LOT subsidiary)
 
milhaus
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:19 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:15 pm

It will be nice to see an A340 in LOT colors...
 
eicvd
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:11 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:23 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
milhaus wrote:
It will be nice to see an A340 in LOT colors...

We can dream but we’ll have to do with the 320
COYBIB
 
airzona11
Posts: 1729
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
OceanAir wrote:

Pathetic. A Brazilian LCC is picking up E2s while the flag carrier of Poland picks up its scrap :spin: (and this is coming from a Polish-American who only wishes them the best). What a bloody mess. At this point the plug should be pulled on the 787s (the 788 is too small, 789 forever grounded) and MAX (not like they own them anyway, and didn't SQ retire its first A380 very early?), the entire management should be purged, bring in some execs that spent time with the Gulf airlines and cut this all-American/Boeing nonsense out already before they end up like DY. Like the first McDonald's in Warsaw, it may have been a novelty in 1989, but now it's stale (and avoided).


Congrats for suggestions that would financially trash LO. I do hope this is not a serious post.


And this mess with downgrades and leases isn't harming LO? What damage did it to do the brand when someone who was supposed to fly on a brand new B788 ended up flying on an ancient, archaic B767? I think the management gambled way too much. They expanded too fast while relying on brand new, unproven planes (787 and MAX).


Better tell all the airlines profitably flying and making hundreds of million dollars profit the 767 is damaging the brand because it is ancient and archaic.

The brand will really be damaged when it liquidates in bankruptcy canceling flights because they decided to rip and replace their brand new fleet for a brand new fleet. The situation is not ideal but the 787s in particular are close to back to fully operational and making them money. The interim leases of A320s are filling in capacity gap.

Ordering new fleet types is not the solution.
 
BoardingPass
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 5:35 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:20 pm

Blerg wrote:
pdp wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Is LO number one airline in Europe (maybe beyond?) in terms of fleet diversity? They operate so many different models from E70 and Q400 to A340 and B789.


Off the top of my head:

DH8D
E170
E175
E190
E195
CRJ7 (Nordica)
CRJ9 (Nordica)
A319 (GoJet?)
A320 (SmartLynx too?)
B733
B734
B737? (Blue Air)
B738
B38M
B788
B789
A343 (Air Belgium)

Plus a Tecnam and a few other light aircraft of some description.

Quite a fleet!


What a collection. All we are missing is the E-145, Tu-154 and IL-62 to complete the list.


The B737 aircraft wearing Blue Air livery is not wetleased nor dryleased from Blue Air. The aircraft was returned to lessor at the beginning of 2019 and then LOT leased it.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1440
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:57 pm

artflyer wrote:
I think that when LO management openly mentions leasing of A for lh they may be very serious this time.

As the lessors are Airbus associates, it looks like the stars may be aligning for the future fleet.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:36 pm

At the end of the day, with these big plans of the polish government making out of LO the EK of eastern europe and building a new airport in the middle of no where, is LO at all profitable or figures are manipulated by the government?
 
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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3181
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Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:55 pm

airzona11 wrote:

Better tell all the airlines profitably flying and making hundreds of million dollars profit the 767 is damaging the brand because it is ancient and archaic.


Well, promising a new 787 and then letting the passengers board a very bad 767 may indeed be damaging to the brand. LO should perhaps pick better aircraft to wet lease than the Euro Atlantic 767 with a small J cabin, without a W cabin and with 8 abreast Y. It may seem that this aircraft killed the BUD - ORD route. The Hi-Fly A340 isn't ideal either...
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
JamesCousins
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:47 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:

Avión Express, I don’t really know much about them.


They're a Lithuanian charter airline, do a lot of work for Jet2, TUI and historically Thomas Cook in the Summer peak seasons over here in Europe. Aircraft tend to be 2nd hand planes from large carriers, and many are fitted out with slimline seats (the same type used by Jet2 with the dinky arm rests).


Several Thomas Cook UK aircraft inducted by them recently.


Which, quite ironically, will probably end up on the exact same routes as Thomas Cook covering for the lack of capacity now that they're no longer in the market (...that and covering the 737 MAX downtime at TUI which appears to containing through much of peak season next year)
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
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intrance
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:38 pm

artflyer wrote:
+ some CRJ from Nordica (a LOT subsidiary)
Small correction, they are not a subsidiary as LOT does not own a controlling stake. Strategic partner is the term they like I believe :geek: .

Also, they are poised to start doing Embraer flying for LOT soonish.
 
SRQLOT
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:20 am

artflyer wrote:
debonair wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
LOT will wet lease 4 Airbus 320 in 2020, in January 2 will arrive and 2 more in February. They will join the 1 A320 currently flying in a wet lease.


I have lost the oversight... Can anybody give an insight into LOT's subcharter fleet from 2020? So, we have 4 Avion Express A320, 2 AirBelgium A340 - what about leases from GetJet and Blue Air?


currently wet leased:
2 AirBelgium A340
1 HiFly A340
4 Avion Express A320 (since the middle/end of January 2020)
1 GetJet A320
+ some CRJ from Nordica (a LOT subsidiary)



Another A340 from HiFly flew into Warsaw to fly for LOT. Is it a replacement for the first one or now 4 flying for LOT?
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
tofen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:25 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:44 am

Two A343s was ferried in to WAW yesterday. Both OO-ABA of Air Belgium and 9H-SOL of HiFly. Does this mean that LOT are upping the number of leased A343 or is it just the operators who's moving frames around their system?
9H-SUN, the A343 that HiFly has been flying for LOT for a while, seems to be chronically delayed when looking at her FR24 history.

There's also a E190 from WDL that's been flying for LOT for a couple of months that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread before. Reg. D-AWSI.
 
Flow2706
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:59 am

eicvd wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
milhaus wrote:
It will be nice to see an A340 in LOT colors...

We can dream but we’ll have to do with the 320

To be honest, I doubt (but don't know for sure) that the A320s leased from Avion will be getting LOT colors. The A320 that operated for Norwegian all summer long was painted fully white, the 320's for Vietjet are all fully white and 2 of the 3 A321s for Vietjet are still partly in TCX colors (title and logo removed, but still with the grey tail and the yellow engines). Avion usually only paints their aircraft for the long term contracts, i.e. Sunexpress and until recently TCX.
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:01 am

Will LOT ever buy another Boeing aircraft?
 
SRQLOT
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:40 pm

tofen wrote:
Two A343s was ferried in to WAW yesterday. Both OO-ABA of Air Belgium and 9H-SOL of HiFly. Does this mean that LOT are upping the number of leased A343 or is it just the operators who's moving frames around their system?
9H-SUN, the A343 that HiFly has been flying for LOT for a while, seems to be chronically delayed when looking at her FR24 history.

There's also a E190 from WDL that's been flying for LOT for a couple of months that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread before. Reg. D-AWSI.



Ah thanks!! Good question as the A340 were rotated out often over the past year by Air Belgium.

As for the WDL E-190 it has been mentioned in the LOT thread. So I’m not exactly sure what is happening with Nórdica, but I guess that E-190 was supposed to help with that.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
User avatar
SASViking
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:59 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
tofen wrote:
Two A343s was ferried in to WAW yesterday. Both OO-ABA of Air Belgium and 9H-SOL of HiFly. Does this mean that LOT are upping the number of leased A343 or is it just the operators who's moving frames around their system?
9H-SUN, the A343 that HiFly has been flying for LOT for a while, seems to be chronically delayed when looking at her FR24 history.

There's also a E190 from WDL that's been flying for LOT for a couple of months that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread before. Reg. D-AWSI.



Ah thanks!! Good question as the A340 were rotated out often over the past year by Air Belgium.

As for the WDL E-190 it has been mentioned in the LOT thread. So I’m not exactly sure what is happening with Nórdica, but I guess that E-190 was supposed to help with that.

With a very short notice, they got a contract for operating additional CRJ's and ATR's for SAS. So my guess is that they have too few aircraft to both operate for SAS, LOT and Luxair so they needed the extra capacity. As far as I know they also have (had) some CRJ's out for quite a while due to heavy maintainance
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4302
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:16 pm

Does anyone know how LO's Asian flights are doing? I am curious about CMB.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
tomgle
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:37 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
Does anyone know how LO's Asian flights are doing? I am curious about CMB.

Saludos,
Alex


This would be better off in the main LOT thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411855&view=unread#unread
 
IADCA
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:56 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
airzona11 wrote:

Better tell all the airlines profitably flying and making hundreds of million dollars profit the 767 is damaging the brand because it is ancient and archaic.


Well, promising a new 787 and then letting the passengers board a very bad 767 may indeed be damaging to the brand. LO should perhaps pick better aircraft to wet lease than the Euro Atlantic 767 with a small J cabin, without a W cabin and with 8 abreast Y. It may seem that this aircraft killed the BUD - ORD route. The Hi-Fly A340 isn't ideal either...


It's not like there's a ton of excess capacity available for short-term wetlease, especially in widebodies, nor are many (any?) of those aircraft in anything other than cramped, economy-heavy configs.
 
jakubz
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: LOT to get more A320s, 20% fleet is not flying

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:51 pm

milhaus wrote:
It will be nice to see an A340 in LOT colors...


The funny thing is I remember seeing an add somewhere (I forget if it was online or in Kaleidoscope, LOT's inflight magazine) an ad with a kid playing with a model of an A340. I am pretty sure I saw LOT's colors on the tail.
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of SA!
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320, A380, 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

I work for United Airlines, but I don't speak for the company.

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