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PB26
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Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 pm

Azul has plans to resume a new internacional city next year.

Only in portuguese:
https://www.mercadoeeventos.com.br/noti ... para-2020/

Rumors are VCP-NYC in May 2020, pending with airline they will have agreement: UA ir B6.

In 2014, the company announced NYC, but the brazilian economic downturn made AD cancel its plans.

Few weeks ago, Azul was one of proposed bidders tô take Aigle Azur's ORY slots.
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
incitatus
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:44 pm

Azul has a formidable network out of VCP. If they do VCP-EWR, they will create a lot of interesting routings to serve secondary Brazil to the USA and beyond.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
airbazar
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:01 pm

incitatus wrote:
Azul has a formidable network out of VCP. If they do VCP-EWR, they will create a lot of interesting routings to serve secondary Brazil to the USA and beyond.

Too far south. Not saying there aren't some connections at VCP but the route overflies 90% of the country, requiring some backtracking. There's probably enough demand for O&D alone tho.
 
FSDan
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Azul has a formidable network out of VCP. If they do VCP-EWR, they will create a lot of interesting routings to serve secondary Brazil to the USA and beyond.

Too far south. Not saying there aren't some connections at VCP but the route overflies 90% of the country, requiring some backtracking. There's probably enough demand for O&D alone tho.


It might overfly 90% of the country geographically, but what about population-wise? Connections from the U.S. to CNF, RIO, POA, CWB, etc., even BSB wouldn't require much backtracking. Those reasonable connections plus the local(ish) SAO market probably account for 90% of the demand.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
EBS1975
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:08 pm

Guys, VCP is VIRACOPOS airport, located in the city of Campinas, some 100km or 60 miles from Sao Paulo.
VCP is to GRU what EWR is for JFK !
Viracopos is Azul's main hub with hundreds for daily flights including those to FLL, MCO and LIS, so I don't understand why they cannot fly to New York !
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:42 pm

FSDan wrote:
airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Azul has a formidable network out of VCP. If they do VCP-EWR, they will create a lot of interesting routings to serve secondary Brazil to the USA and beyond.

Too far south. Not saying there aren't some connections at VCP but the route overflies 90% of the country, requiring some backtracking. There's probably enough demand for O&D alone tho.


It might overfly 90% of the country geographically, but what about population-wise? Connections from the U.S. to CNF, RIO, POA, CWB, etc., even BSB wouldn't require much backtracking. Those reasonable connections plus the local(ish) SAO market probably account for 90% of the demand.


You folks realize that EWR-VCP is closer than EWR-GRU, right?
If prices are right I see absolutely no problems for anyone to connect in/out via VCP to anywhere in Brazil instead using that old and outdated bus station which is GRU and flying with G3 or LA.
Add to this the tremendously superior service from AD than from any other airline in domestic market in BR and anyone looking for service and price will queue in the line for flying AD.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:44 pm

Considering Neeleman's connection...Moxy?
 
rbavfan
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:32 am

EBS1975 wrote:
Guys, VCP is VIRACOPOS airport, located in the city of Campinas, some 100km or 60 miles from Sao Paulo.
VCP is to GRU what EWR is for JFK !
Viracopos is Azul's main hub with hundreds for daily flights including those to FLL, MCO and LIS, so I don't understand why they cannot fly to New York !



JFK-EWR is only 21 miles apart by air. VCP-GRU is 51miles apart by air. More than double & quite a difference when driving as well for some. Me I drive that far several times a week.
 
tphuang
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:32 am

I think they will do JFK.
 
airbazar
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:43 pm

EBS1975 wrote:
Guys, VCP is VIRACOPOS airport, located in the city of Campinas, some 100km or 60 miles from Sao Paulo.
VCP is to GRU what EWR is for JFK !

That analogy is completely wrong because, a) EWR is actually closer to Manhattan than JFK, and b) In no way is EWR a secondary, fringe airport to NYC.
There really is no similar situation in the U.S. that I can think of. A better analogy would be to say that VCP is to GRU what STN is to LHR.
 
flyby519
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:45 pm

airbazar wrote:
EBS1975 wrote:
Guys, VCP is VIRACOPOS airport, located in the city of Campinas, some 100km or 60 miles from Sao Paulo.
VCP is to GRU what EWR is for JFK !

That analogy is completely wrong because, a) EWR is actually closer to Manhattan than JFK, and b) In no way is EWR a secondary, fringe airport to NYC.


Let’s get ready to ruuummmmmbbblleeeeee! :bouncy:
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think they will do JFK.


Why? I think it would make more sense for them to connect with UA at EWR, TP also has a larger presence at EWR compared to JFK.
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:29 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think they will do JFK.


Why? I think it would make more sense for them to connect with UA at EWR, TP also has a larger presence at EWR compared to JFK.


But would compete directly with GRU-EWR from United.

If wasn't by that, EWR would be obvious

By the way that article explains more: https://www.aeroin.net/azul-pode-voar-p ... oximo-ano/
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:12 am

solracfunk14 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think they will do JFK.


Why? I think it would make more sense for them to connect with UA at EWR, TP also has a larger presence at EWR compared to JFK.


But would compete directly with GRU-EWR from United.

If wasn't by that, EWR would be obvious

By the way that article explains more: https://www.aeroin.net/azul-pode-voar-p ... oximo-ano/


Yes it’s going to be interesting. Everything B6 provides for Azul at JFK is already available to them via FLL. UA offers much more from EWR along with TP having a larger presence.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:22 am

Perhaps a better choice for Azul would be Boston with its large Brazilian population and no flights to the Sao Paulo area.
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:22 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think they will do JFK.


Why? I think it would make more sense for them to connect with UA at EWR, TP also has a larger presence at EWR compared to JFK.


But would compete directly with GRU-EWR from United.

If wasn't by that, EWR would be obvious

By the way that article explains more: https://www.aeroin.net/azul-pode-voar-p ... oximo-ano/


Of course UA and Azul, along with Copa and Avianca, have talked about forming a joint venture, although they haven’t filed for one yet...
 
kokpedro
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:31 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Perhaps a better choice for Azul would be Boston with its large Brazilian population and no flights to the Sao Paulo area.

LATAM flies 5x weekly GRU-BOS with a 767.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:16 pm

Polot wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Why? I think it would make more sense for them to connect with UA at EWR, TP also has a larger presence at EWR compared to JFK.


But would compete directly with GRU-EWR from United.

If wasn't by that, EWR would be obvious

By the way that article explains more: https://www.aeroin.net/azul-pode-voar-p ... oximo-ano/


Of course UA and Azul, along with Copa and Avianca, have talked about forming a joint venture, although they haven’t filed for one yet...


It may not have been filed yet, but they do sound quite serious about it and do plan on getting it done soon.
 
luckyone
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:36 pm

airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Azul has a formidable network out of VCP. If they do VCP-EWR, they will create a lot of interesting routings to serve secondary Brazil to the USA and beyond.

Too far south. Not saying there aren't some connections at VCP but the route overflies 90% of the country, requiring some backtracking. There's probably enough demand for O&D alone tho.

Too far south for whom? I’m sure you’re well aware that the bulk of Brazil’s wealth is concentrated in the south—compare the number of flights out of the Northeastern cities to the large cities in the south to the US. They run free shuttles to several points in Sao Paolo from Viracopos, which negates the distance.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:00 pm

São Paulo is such a mega city, VCP to NYC will work fine ... fares are sometimes 3 times as expensive as SÃO > Europe
 
bravotango75
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:52 pm

Need them here in BOS, huge Brazilian population here as well as Portuguese and Cape Verde. A winning route for Azul...
 
incitatus
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
Too far south. Not saying there aren't some connections at VCP but the route overflies 90% of the country, requiring some backtracking. There's probably enough demand for O&D alone tho.


We can all quote all favorite statistic. 90% of the country, 65% of the population. But when you look at the Brazilian economy, Rio, SP and the South are well over half of it. Then there is a cluster of industry and services around Rio and SP that are heavy users of long-haul travel.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:07 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Need them here in BOS, huge Brazilian population here as well as Portuguese and Cape Verde. A winning route for Azul...


BOS has a fraction of the international traffic NYC has. I don’t see that route working for a day.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:42 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
Need them here in BOS, huge Brazilian population here as well as Portuguese and Cape Verde. A winning route for Azul...


BOS has a fraction of the international traffic NYC has. I don’t see that route working for a day.


Composition of the population matters, as do specific business ties, not just population size or volume of international traffic. BOS serves some international routes that NYC does not - and the same is true of YUL.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:51 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
Need them here in BOS, huge Brazilian population here as well as Portuguese and Cape Verde. A winning route for Azul...


BOS has a fraction of the international traffic NYC has. I don’t see that route working for a day.


Composition of the population matters, as do specific business ties, not just population size or volume of international traffic. BOS serves some international routes that NYC does not - and the same is true of YUL.


There is a reason TAP is going 3x daily to EWR while only being less than 2x daily from BOS. It is called demand, BOS doesn’t have it. This thread is not about BOS for a reason, so please keep it that way.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:18 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

BOS has a fraction of the international traffic NYC has. I don’t see that route working for a day.


Composition of the population matters, as do specific business ties, not just population size or volume of international traffic. BOS serves some international routes that NYC does not - and the same is true of YUL.


There is a reason TAP is going 3x daily to EWR while only being less than 2x daily from BOS. It is called demand, BOS doesn’t have it. This thread is not about BOS for a reason, so please keep it that way.


Azul needs expand to NYC before anything else.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
MaRoFu
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:35 am

Another possible factor that might sway them to pick EWR is the Ironbound district in Newark. Lots of Portuguese, Brazilians, and other Lusophone immigrants living there.
Airports I have been to:
DFW, EWR, IAH, JFK, LAS, LGA, MCO, MIA, NRT, ORD, PHL, PHX, SEA, SLC, YTZ, YYZ
 
Rossiya747
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:40 am

Azul codeshares with UA, so EWR could be possible.
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
jetbluefan1
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:53 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Why? I think it would make more sense for them to connect with UA at EWR, TP also has a larger presence at EWR compared to JFK.


But would compete directly with GRU-EWR from United.

If wasn't by that, EWR would be obvious

By the way that article explains more: https://www.aeroin.net/azul-pode-voar-p ... oximo-ano/


Yes it’s going to be interesting. Everything B6 provides for Azul at JFK is already available to them via FLL. UA offers much more from EWR along with TP having a larger presence.


While there is some overlap, there are some markets that are served from JFK but not FLL (like ROC, SYR, BTV, DEN, SEA, SMF). Some are more logical connecting markets than others of course, but there is certainly some feed potential. TP also already operates out of B6’s T5 at JFK so it isn’t far fetched to see Azul take a similar approach.

That said, doesn’t UA have a stake in Azul? That alone seems like reason enough to choose EWR and plug into the UA network.
 
EarlyLateORD
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:15 am

A few notes on the above thread:

AZUL does a better job at capturing Brazilian POS than the American carriers, except for perhaps American. They also tend to have a lower cost base and can capture VFR traffic that might find UA/DL unaffordable.

Boston and NYC/EWR have very different Portuguese demand.

BOS has a large Azorean community, this is served well already. The Brazilian traffic if mostly VFR. These travelers would easily take B6 to EWR or Amtrak.

NYC Business focused as well as wealthier Brazilian on vacation

EWR Large Portuguese community from Portugal established after the Carnation revolution. Over time it has absorbed other Lusophone immigrants.

VCP serves all of the major markets in Brazil well, Brazil is a large country, but is essentially two societies. For example when Carrefour installs stores in the North of Brazil they use store models tested in Africa in Southern Brazil they use floorplans and stock based on their Euro floorplan. The Brazilian north was a planation/slave based societies that failed to build wealth much like the American South pre-Civil War. Southern Brazil absorbed multitudes of immigrants from Europe and developed on a family farm model that managed to accumulate wealth and political power, much like the American North and Northeast.

Adam
 
DuraLexSedLex
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:45 am

Azul must run if it wants to establish itself as a strong player in the NYC-SAO market. Bear in mind that once the DL-LA JV is approved, they will be strong in terms of POS and connections at both ends. Differently from AA, DL is expanding at JFK.

Cheers!
 
VC10er
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:39 am

The United EWR to GRU then connecting on Azul (sometimes other airlines) to SDU is a great option over terminating at GIG - especially if you’re headed downtown or to the Zona Sul section of Rio.

“IF” EWR to VCP then Azul to CGH was scheduled: man I’d do that in a nano second over landing at 7am at GRU then face a 2-3 hour drive (in traffic) to downtown São Paulo!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
oneskyjet
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:11 am

This thread is incorrectly labeled. VCP-NYC would be a new market, not a resumption.

Regardless, will be a welcome addition.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:35 am

oneskyjet wrote:
This thread is incorrectly labeled. VCP-NYC would be a new market, not a resumption.

Regardless, will be a welcome addition.


VCP would be a resumption as AZUL used to fly to NYC.
 
abrelosojos
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:13 pm

I heard it will be VCP-JFK with a red eye in each direction.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:03 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
I heard it will be VCP-JFK with a red eye in each direction.

Saludos,
Alex


Thanks! Where did you hear this?
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:08 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
oneskyjet wrote:
This thread is incorrectly labeled. VCP-NYC would be a new market, not a resumption.

Regardless, will be a welcome addition.


VCP would be a resumption as AZUL used to fly to NYC.


Negative sir, we never flew to New York City, Big Apple or Something above Florida. You're make confusion with another blue belly from the same owner or the another one who died years ago.

Remember: Azul it's just 11 years young, started international flights few years ago.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:07 am

bravotango75 wrote:
Need them here in BOS, huge Brazilian population here as well as Portuguese and Cape Verde. A winning route for Azul...


Don't think the Portuguese and Cape Verdeans would help fill up a flight from BOS to VCP, but it would be a nice addition to BOS.
@DadCelo
 
Elgorou
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:47 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
oneskyjet wrote:
This thread is incorrectly labeled. VCP-NYC would be a new market, not a resumption.

Regardless, will be a welcome addition.


VCP would be a resumption as AZUL used to fly to NYC.


Negative sir, we never flew to New York City, Big Apple or Something above Florida. You're make confusion with another blue belly from the same owner or the another one who died years ago.

Remember: Azul it's just 11 years young, started international flights few years ago.



AA fly JFK-VCP for 2014-2015 with B767
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:45 pm

Elgorou wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:

VCP would be a resumption as AZUL used to fly to NYC.


Negative sir, we never flew to New York City, Big Apple or Something above Florida. You're make confusion with another blue belly from the same owner or the another one who died years ago.

Remember: Azul it's just 11 years young, started international flights few years ago.



AA fly JFK-VCP for 2014-2015 with B767



Yes, American Airlines, not Azul:

dfwjim1 wrote:

VCP would be a resumption as AZUL used to fly to NYC.
 
solracfunk14
Posts: 83
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:26 pm

Now it's official, Azul will start flying next June to JFK: http://www.aeroin.net/azul-ira-voar-nov ... -campinas/
 
AF086
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:49 pm

The schedule favours higher yielding passengers:

AD8700 - VCP 2030 0530+1 JFK - 332 - D
AD8701 - JFK 2330 1030+1 VCP - 332 - D

EFF 15/06

Given that Azul codeshares with Jetblue in Florida, it is reasonable to assume that it will be the same at JFK and, because of that, it is also safe to assume that they will use Terminal 5.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
744lover
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:09 pm

Wow... that's a huge underutilization of this airplane. Siting in JFK for 18 hours seems pretty long...
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: Azul resuming NYC next year

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:20 pm

744lover wrote:
Wow... that's a huge underutilization of this airplane. Siting in JFK for 18 hours seems pretty long...

Pretty standard for US-South America (although this on the longer side- Azul was probably limited in what departure slots they could get). Red eyes are the popular flight times for business travel. The US carriers all usually have their planes sitting around all day in Brazil (and Chile, Argentina, etc) for their flights, and the South American carriers have their planes sitting around all day in the US.

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