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Clackers
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Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:45 pm

I know this may be a noob question, but I always get irked when I hear of such and such airline revealing their new first class product on the A350, yet of course an older product exists on their B777 and B787 etc..

What's the issue - on similar sized aircraft - in having the same first/business/premiumeconomy products on all of the aircraft in the fleet?

I could fly LHR-SIN (for example), yet different first class hard products are available depending on which aircraft I happen to book with? Surely the general public are not aware of these differentials, in which case it asks a further question: are first class products made just for "people in the know"?
 
airbazar
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:59 pm

Simple: ROI.
Do you buy new furniture every year?
Airlines don't buy new seats or new planes every year either.
And when they do decide to change, It can takes months or even years to complete the refurb across a large fleet.
In your example, the A350 is newer, just being delivered with the new interior while the the 777/787 are older aircraft, ordered years ago with the previous interior. The 777/787 will eventually get the same interior as the A350.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:03 pm

Not sure what you mean.

Unless those B787 and A350 came into the fleet in a similar time frame, of course hard products will be different - some state-of-the-art seats (let say, that is put onto a brand new A350) are not even available when the earlier (let say, B787) planes were roll into service.

Airlines are also not going to just retrofit planes already in service just to get the newest product in all the time - those cost tons of money and time. Just look at UA, for example, they still haven't retrofit all the long-haul 772ER to Polaris product even though that was announce almost 2 years ago.

Of course, there's airline like CX with all sort of products on the same plane (A333 in CX's case), and it's a dice roll as to which product one will get especially up front (Their "regional" business class is a joke compare to the newer product).
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:10 pm

Different cabins also require different hard product. What works in an A350 won’t work in an A330 which won’t work in a 767 necessarily, etc. - look how the new Delta One Suites product is slightly more spare when you walk down the fleet.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:12 pm

because it costs a lot of money to change the interior.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:17 pm

Because marketing and planning clowns change their mind every so often, even before the last round of upgrades have been completely implemented in many cases. It's how they justify their existence. Sometimes, they change them back 10 years later and call it innovation.
 
blooc350
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:18 pm

Probably cost and aircraft interior space.

Cleary cant fit the New Singapore Airlines A380 Suites in a 777-9. Hence why SQ is creating a completely new First Class for the 777-9
 
seat1a
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:26 pm

Interesting thread, I have wondered about when the larger legacy carriers (United, American, Delta) will all have a standardized product (both hard and soft) and everything aligns. Is it impossible given aircraft deliveries, the differences (as mentioned above), and the mindset of marketing? If you were to say United will be all standard, when would that be? 2020? 2021?

Would you venture to say Southwest is the closest to 'all standard' with it's hard and soft product? Asking for a friend. Thanks!
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:38 pm

If you fly economy class, you can predict what type of seat size you will get.
 
himarhernandez
Posts: 86
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:57 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Because marketing and planning clowns change their mind every so often, even before the last round of upgrades have been completely implemented in many cases. It's how they justify their existence. Sometimes, they change them back 10 years later and call it innovation.


Wow. Not exactly Mr. Rogers.
I am sure shareholders are smart enough not to allow clowns or people to be around just to justify their existence. Marketing and planning professionals do their job to keep the company relevant to consumers and have competitive products.
 
blooc350
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:06 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Because marketing and planning clowns change their mind every so often, even before the last round of upgrades have been completely implemented in many cases. It's how they justify their existence. Sometimes, they change them back 10 years later and call it innovation.



Image
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:08 pm

And remember United advertising Polaris? At the time of the advertisement, only 1 plane in their entire fleet had the product. And only one airport had the lounge.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pm

British Airways have managed to have an identical business class product across the entire long haul fleet (except a handful of A321s that do Beirut and Moscow, but they’re still flat bed) for years now, until the EIS is the A350, which is one of the things that is so great about BA. I hate having to figure out what aircraft type I might be on and checking Seat Guru and Skytrax to figure out what the hard product will be. There are some airlines I won’t book in a premium cabin because the disparity between different hard products is so great. Top of that pile is Emirates. United ain’t great either.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:19 pm

seat1a wrote:
Would you venture to say Southwest is the closest to 'all standard' with it's hard and soft product? Asking for a friend. Thanks!


Most LCCs I would say have a fairly consistent hard and soft product. For example, on Ryanair you know you'll be getting a cramp seat, FAs selling scratch cards, and a ride that's more or less getting you from Point A to Point B. Ultimately, that's part of how LCCs lower cost anyway.

Ziyulu wrote:
And remember United advertising Polaris? At the time of the advertisement, only 1 plane in their entire fleet had the product. And only one airport had the lounge.


Well, there's always AA's "Project Oasis" that one wish would never get completed :).
 
notconcerned
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:49 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
And remember United advertising Polaris? At the time of the advertisement, only 1 plane in their entire fleet had the product. And only one airport had the lounge.


Lots of airlines do that with new product launch: QR with their Q-suites, VS and the new seat, NH with the room, EK and the new F, etc.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
Simple: ROI.
Do you buy new furniture every year?
Airlines don't buy new seats or new planes every year either.
And when they do decide to change, It can takes months or even years to complete the refurb across a large fleet.
In your example, the A350 is newer, just being delivered with the new interior while the the 777/787 are older aircraft, ordered years ago with the previous interior. The 777/787 will eventually get the same interior as the A350.

This is a good analogy.

But take it further, this is as if you can only buy certified furniture and may only install it if the architect, fire marshal, and an engineer agree it meets code and then the city has a few months to review.

Then the sests are ordered, manufactured, tested, and finally staged for installation.

These seats are expensive. They must be proven to keep an individual safe during crash loads.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
SteelChair
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:10 pm

himarhernandez wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Because marketing and planning clowns change their mind every so often, even before the last round of upgrades have been completely implemented in many cases. It's how they justify their existence. Sometimes, they change them back 10 years later and call it innovation.


Wow. Not exactly Mr. Rogers.
I am sure shareholders are smart enough not to allow clowns or people to be around just to justify their existence. Marketing and planning professionals do their job to keep the company relevant to consumers and have competitive products.


Deleted
 
gabep
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:07 am

Re: Why do airlines have different products on different aircraft in their fleet?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:54 pm

Clackers wrote:
I know this may be a noob question, but...
What's the issue - on similar sized aircraft - in having the same first/business/premiumeconomy products on all of the aircraft in the fleet?


People often underestimate the amount of time and resources required for the introduction of a new aircraft interior. There is often substantial lead time in the sourcing, procurement and certification of new products. This of course only begins after a laborious design, testing and selection phase carried out within the airline and its design and marketing contractors.

Once the above process has been completed aircraft have to be pulled out of service. This usually coincides with a heavy maintenance check. Each aircraft can take between 15 and 60 days depending on the level of maintenance the ship has to undergo and the extent to which the airline is refreshing their interiors. Once the interior refresh gets underway the affair usually picks up pace and the last aircraft can often be completed in the least amount of time. Even a modest wide body fleet of 25 aircraft could take between 18 and 36 moths to complete once the process begins. Never mind a large fleet of 50 plus aircraft.

Gabep

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