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D L X
Posts: 12675
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:30 pm

scbriml wrote:
D L X wrote:


So why isn't AA suing all those other airlines that have flagship products? :sarcastic:

Because they are not systematically using the word “flagship” with connection to their advertising air services.

I mean, come on. One of your links isn’t even an airline’s advertisement. And the others aren’t airlines in the United States. (Trademark rights are territorial. A federal trademark is useless in Germany and UAE.)

You’ve been on this site a long time, and I respect you. But we both know you aren’t a lawyer, so why this resistance?
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:32 pm

vhtje wrote:

The level of partisan posting in this topic top is utterly breathtaking.

It truly is. Who needs expertise when you have google and gut feelings!
 
steex
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:36 pm

D L X wrote:
steex wrote:
I'm not passing judgment on whether that defense holds water either way (and I most certainly am not an attorney), but seems a likely approach.

It is not a defense. Delta isn’t using the word to describe their plane. They are systematically using the word to sell air travel services connected to a particular product. That’s trademark infringement.


Now now, I suspect you well know that can be a defense even if it's not a successful one. Unless we assume Delta is going to put its tail between its legs and back away, these are the sorts of defensive positions they will need to take.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:43 pm

scbriml wrote:
Google "flagship" and any major airline and see what results you get. :wink2:

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/qantas- ... se-routes/
Qantas eyes ‘flagship’ cabin update for proposed Project Sunrise routes


https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... 80-to-doha
Emirates to Fly Flagship A380 to Doha


https://upgradedpoints.com/united-polar ... mate-guide
Since then, United has had repeated delays in expanding their new flagship product.


https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... -time.html
Lufthansa’s Airbus A350-900 flagship aircraft flies to Charlotte Douglas International Airport for the first time


https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_GB/ ... fleet.html
Boeing 777 - This is the flagship of Cathay Pacific's long-haul fleet



So long Delta can reference other U.S carriers' use of the word "flagship," then they have a shot at a decent defense, especially if Delta's use is a one-off on a specific thing and not wide-sweeping in
reference to a type of service. Delta can argue it is simply a SIMPLE differentiator of something unique in their system of which does not need much in the aide of further explaination to their customers (due to the definition).
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:45 pm

steex wrote:
D L X wrote:
steex wrote:
I'm not passing judgment on whether that defense holds water either way (and I most certainly am not an attorney), but seems a likely approach.

It is not a defense. Delta isn’t using the word to describe their plane. They are systematically using the word to sell air travel services connected to a particular product. That’s trademark infringement.


Now now, I suspect you well know that can be a defense even if it's not a successful one. Unless we assume Delta is going to put its tail between its legs and back away, these are the sorts of defensive positions they will need to take.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. Surely delta is going to launch a defense. They’ve hired megafirm Latham and Watkins.

My point was that you weren’t describing an exculpatory argument, but rather one that will result in delta’s liability.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:48 pm

Maybe this is payback for American having an AmericanConnection regional subsidiary up to 2014. Who knows what went on between the two over that!?!
 
usflyguy
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:52 pm

DL747400 wrote:
The lawsuit may well be about more than the A350 usage. AA may think it also applies to their more universal and widespread use of the term 'Flagship' in their descriptions of AA lounges, premium services, and interiors. The problem with artificially inflating the perceived scope of infringement is that in reality, the scope of DELTA's use of 'FLAGSHIP' labels is very specific and narrowly focused. So far, the only place that I can find DELTA using the 'FLAGSHIP' label is in their marketing of the A350 and on flights operated using A350 aircraft. DELTA is not actually using 'FLAGSHIP' in their marketing of lounges, premium services, or interiors.

The first word in the title of this article pretty much says it all:

Silly: American Suing Delta For Using The Word “Flagship”
https://onemileatatime.com/american-sui ... -flagship/


Except for this quote, talking about the hard product on the 767.

Delta has confirmed that its fleet of 767-400 aircraft will undergo “mid-life interior modernizations beginning in 2019.” They’ll join the rest of Delta’s 777-200ER/LR fleet, which are slated for refurbishments in Singapore. The updates will “bring them up to flagship standards through the design, integration and production of thousands of parts, and configuring the aircraft with new lavatories, IFE and lighting systems.”

https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-777 ... trofitted/

Which means they are using it to describe a class or level of service...
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
steex
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:02 pm

D L X wrote:
My point was that you weren’t describing an exculpatory argument, but rather one that will result in delta’s liability.


Indeed, and perhaps not an unlikely outcome. I apologize as I've been playing devil's advocate a bit here, but some of the use by Delta (and, perhaps, arguably by other airlines) likely is copyright infringement. It seems Delta's best approaches will be to claim they are using the term by dictionary definition in a way that doesn't cause customer confusion vis a vis American and/or the term is so commonly used that the copyright ought be invalidated. Both seem questionable positions and would, presumably, require sufficiently convincing the adjudicators that none of this was done with the intention of damaging American's mark.

I do find these kinds of cases very interesting. For my own curiosity, I hope this moves forward in a manner that allows the findings to be public rather than some agreement with confidentiality. I assume both giant companies are going to be fine coming out of this case regardless, so I don't have much reason to root for anything other than my own entertainment.
Last edited by steex on Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
johns624
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:03 pm

DL just uses "flagship" on their schedules so people can plainly see that it is an A350. It's not a service, it's a plane model.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:16 pm

D L X wrote:
Oh boy...

This is REALLY problematic.

Image

It actually says “flagship” on its booking engine. Yes folks, that is deliberate.


I still don’t see the problem there.

That would be equivalent as going on the AA site and claiming AA is infringing DL by selling “one” way fares, “one” ticket, “one” seat etc as “one” is a DL registered word.

The context it is being used plays a part, not just the word itself.

As that screenshot shows it is not using flagship to describe what AA have actually have in their trademark #4897371 filing namely “premium air transportation services for first class and business class passengers”, it is being used to describe the type of aircraft.

Nor is it being used to describe premium food and beverage service, it is being used to describe a premium aircraft which AA does not have a trademark over in their filing.

That screenshot clearly shows where DL is “providing premium air transportation services for first class and business class passengers” is called Delta One.

Many airlines and even Airbus have used and described the A350 as their flagship.
Last edited by zeke on Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:17 pm

Perhaps Delta has sufficient evidence that American does not use Flagship as effective as trademarking may demand. For example, their lounges are ADMIRAL and aircraft LUXURY LINERS, if still called that. Flagship cannot be found with a glance to their front facing website even.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:20 pm

Keep the thread on topic without the personal attacks. Some of the comments in this thread have been getting a little bit ridiculous. Be respectful, or please don't post.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
usflyguy
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:25 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Perhaps Delta has sufficient evidence that American does not use Flagship as effective as trademarking may demand. For example, their lounges are ADMIRAL and aircraft LUXURY LINERS, if still called that. Flagship cannot be found with a glance to their front facing website even.


Except for FLAGSHIP FIRST, FLAGSHIP CHECKIN, FLAGSHIP FIRST DINING, FLAGSHIP LOUNGE, etc., etc., etc... where the term FLAGSHIP has a little circle with an R inside of it next to FLAGSHIP each time it is used.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/exp ... nental.jsp

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/clu ... lounge.jsp

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/exp ... dining.jsp

I could give you links to probably 20 more pages in which Flagship is in big bold letters with the registered trademark symbol next to it.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:33 pm

usflyguy wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Perhaps Delta has sufficient evidence that American does not use Flagship as effective as trademarking may demand. For example, their lounges are ADMIRAL and aircraft LUXURY LINERS, if still called that. Flagship cannot be found with a glance to their front facing website even.


Except for FLAGSHIP FIRST, FLAGSHIP CHECKIN, FLAGSHIP FIRST DINING, FLAGSHIP LOUNGE, etc., etc., etc... where the term FLAGSHIP has a little circle with an R inside of it next to FLAGSHIP each time it is used.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/exp ... nental.jsp

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/clu ... lounge.jsp

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/exp ... dining.jsp

I could give you links to probably 20 more pages in which Flagship is in big bold letters with the registered trademark symbol next to it.


Thanks for those links. Stunning examples. Very interesting. The registered trademark symbols make a strong argument, no doubt!
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:41 pm

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Oh boy...

This is REALLY problematic.

Image

It actually says “flagship” on its booking engine. Yes folks, that is deliberate.


I still don’t see the problem there.

That would be equivalent as going on the AA site and claiming AA is infringing DL by selling “one” way fares, “one” ticket, “one” seat etc as “one” is a DL registered word.


Delta doesn’t have a registered trademark on “One.”

AA does have a federally registered trademark on “flagship.” That’s the difference. You can’t use “flagship” in connection with air travel services in the United States Unless you are AA. You CAN use “one.”

zeke wrote:

The context it is being used plays a part, not just the word itself.

As that screenshot shows it is not using flagship to describe what AA have actually have in their trademark #4897371 filing namely “premium air transportation services for first class and business class passengers”, it is being used to describe the type of aircraft.

Nor is it being used to describe premium food and beverage service, it is being used to describe a premium aircraft which AA does not have a trademark over in their filing.


AA has five federally registered trademarks. One of them, 5854303, covers “ providing air transportation reservation services; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers; airline passenger ticketing, check-in and boarding services; escorting of travelers; providing professional support staff to assist in the management of travel plans; air transport of passengers, cargo, and freight; providing travel agency services, namely, providing travel reservation services for others, air transportation reservation services for others, vehicle reservation services for others, cruise reservation services for others and vacation reservation services in the nature of coordinating travel arrangements for individuals and groups; providing information in the field of travel;”


Seems like a fit, doesn’t it?

That screenshot clearly shows where DL is “providing premium air transportation services for first class and business class passengers” is called Delta One.

Many airlines and even Airbus have used and described the A350 as their flagship.

Not in the United States.
 
LDRA
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:43 pm

Lawyers get excited over this...
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:46 pm

LDRA wrote:
Lawyers get excited over this...
facts. :)
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:55 pm

D L X wrote:
zeke wrote:
[quote="D L

That screenshot clearly shows where DL is “providing premium air transportation services for first class and business class passengers” is called Delta One.

Many airlines and even Airbus have used and described the A350 as their flagship.

Not in the United States.


Could Delta's flagship reference on INTERNATIONAL service exonerate it?
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:56 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
D L X wrote:
zeke wrote:
[quote="D L


Not in the United States.


Could Delta's flagship reference on INTERNATIONAL service exonerate it?

No. They are using the term in the United States to sell things. It’s the fact that they are using the word in the United States that garners jurisdiction.
 
questions
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:57 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
Its not that AA could; AA -already- has. DL now comes in and markets a competing service as "flagship".

Same industry; direct competitors; similar products.

Again, anyone saying that this is a "weak" case has no idea what they're talking about.

Image


Regardless of the potential copyright/trademark/service mark infringement, this just looks like sloppy marketing.

What exactly is Delta touting as FLAGSHIP? Is it that one of the flight segments is on the A350? If so, wouldn’t it be better to state, FLAGSHIP A350?

Or is Delta targeting the uninformed traveler who will see “FLAGSHIP” and think, “Oooh, this one is flagship. It must be better. I’ll take this one.”

And... why on Earth would Delta want to get anywhere near anything that looks and smells like the tarnished AA brand? That’s just stupid.

It should not have taken a lawsuit to question the stupidity and lack of creativity in this move.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:02 am

questions wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
Its not that AA could; AA -already- has. DL now comes in and markets a competing service as "flagship".

Same industry; direct competitors; similar products.

Again, anyone saying that this is a "weak" case has no idea what they're talking about.

Image


Regardless of the potential copyright/trademark/service mark infringement, this just looks like sloppy marketing.

What exactly is Delta touting as FLAGSHIP? Is it that one of the flight segments is on the A350? If so, wouldn’t it be better to state, FLAGSHIP A350?

Or is Delta targeting the uninformed traveler who will see “FLAGSHIP” and think, “Oooh, this one is flagship. It must be better. I’ll take this one.”

And... why on Earth would Delta want to get anywhere near anything that looks and smells like the tarnished AA brand? That’s just stupid.

It should not have taken a lawsuit to question the stupidity and lack of creativity in this move.



You make interesting observations! Would have been more creative and more DELTA to brand whatever they are branding here as CROWNSHIP. This has an elite service feel to me much like Flagship.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:09 am

D L X wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
D L X wrote:


Could Delta's flagship reference on INTERNATIONAL service exonerate it?

No. They are using the term in the United States to sell things. It’s the fact that they are using the word in the United States that garners jurisdiction.


But at the same time, isn't Delta's website accessible world-wide?
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:14 am

D L X wrote:
steex wrote:
D L X wrote:
It is not a defense. Delta isn’t using the word to describe their plane. They are systematically using the word to sell air travel services connected to a particular product. That’s trademark infringement.


Now now, I suspect you well know that can be a defense even if it's not a successful one. Unless we assume Delta is going to put its tail between its legs and back away, these are the sorts of defensive positions they will need to take.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. Surely delta is going to launch a defense. They’ve hired megafirm Latham and Watkins.

My point was that you weren’t describing an exculpatory argument, but rather one that will result in delta’s liability.


You mean AA hired Latham.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:20 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
D L X wrote:
steex wrote:

Now now, I suspect you well know that can be a defense even if it's not a successful one. Unless we assume Delta is going to put its tail between its legs and back away, these are the sorts of defensive positions they will need to take.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. Surely delta is going to launch a defense. They’ve hired megafirm Latham and Watkins.

My point was that you weren’t describing an exculpatory argument, but rather one that will result in delta’s liability.


You mean AA hired Latham.

My bad. I’ve only seen a report, not the actual complaint. Did delta hire Greenberg?
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:21 am

D L X wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
D L X wrote:
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. Surely delta is going to launch a defense. They’ve hired megafirm Latham and Watkins.

My point was that you weren’t describing an exculpatory argument, but rather one that will result in delta’s liability.


You mean AA hired Latham.

My bad. I’ve only seen a report, not the actual complaint. Did delta hire Greenberg?


Nope AA got them too. Given that AA filed this on Friday, I'm guessing that Delta has not technically been served so, they are likely to not have filed an EOA yet.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:25 am

What is American seeking here? What remedy specifically? The seizing of Delta's use of the word? And monetary damages? It can't claim Delta damaged it's Flagship branding as that would not be good for them marketing it going forward. And Delta damaging American's image, as others have stated here, is a bit ridiculous.
Last edited by TYWoolman on Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:26 am

Signature lines:

Respectfully submitted,
Isl Dee J. Kelly, Jr.
Dee J. Kelly, Jr.
State Bar No. 11217250
Lars L. Berg
State Bar No. 00787072
KELLY HART & HALLMAN LLP
201 Main Street, Suite 2500
Fort Worth, Texas 76102
Tel: (817) 332-2500
Fax: (817) 878-9280
[email protected]
[email protected]
-
Nathan J. Muyskens
Pro Hae Vice Admission to be Sought
GREENBERG TRAURIG, LLP
2101 L. St. NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20037
Tel: (202) 331-3164
[email protected]
Cameron M. Nelson
Pro Hae Vice Admission to be sought
GREENBERG TRAURIG, LLP
77 West Wacker Drive, Suite 3100
Chicago, IL 60601
[email protected]
James E. Brandt
Eric Leon
Kuan Huang
LATHAM & WATKINS LLP
885 Third A venue
New York, NY 10022-4834
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
ATTORNEYS FOR PLAINTIFF
AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:27 am

TYWoolman wrote:
What is American seeking here? What remedy specifically? The seizing of Delta's use of the word? And monetary damages?


From the complaint:

For these reasons, plaintiff American respectfully prays for the following relief:
A. A finding that Delta unlawfully, willfully, and without authorization infringed
upon American's Flagship Marks, and engaged in unfair competition, in violation of the Lanham
Act, 15 U.S.C. §1125, et seq.
B. An order that Delta, its officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and
all persons acting for, by, through, or under it be permanently enjoined from:
1. Using the term "Flagship" (or any similar or derivative term) in
association with airport lounges, seating, food, dining, check-in, tickets,
airplane interiors, on-the-ground services, booking services, or in-flight
services;
2. Using the term "Flagship" (or any similar or derivative term) in any other
manner which creates confusion with American's Flagship Marks;
3. Using the term "Flagship" (or any similar or derivative term) which in any
way constitutes unfair competition with American; and
4. registering or applying to register any trademark, service mark, domain
name, or other source identifier or symbol of origin consisting of or
incorporating the term "Flagship" ( or any similar or derivative term), or
any other term that infringes or is likely to be confused with the Flagship
Marks.
C. An award to American of monetary relief in an amount to be fixed by the Court in
its discretion as just, including:
1. All profits received by Delta from sales and revenues of any kind made as
a result of its trademark infringement and unfair competition;
2. All damages sustained by American as a result of Delta's infringement
and unfair competition, including ascertainable damages, costs, and
attorney fees, and enhanced damages for willful infringement.
D. An award to American of all other relief as this Court considers just and proper.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:41 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
What is American seeking here? What remedy specifically? The seizing of Delta's use of the word? And monetary damages?


From the complaint:

For these reasons, plaintiff American respectfully prays for the following relief:
A. A finding that Delta unlawfully, willfully, and without authorization infringed
upon American's Flagship Marks, and engaged in unfair competition, in violation of the Lanham
Act, 15 U.S.C. §1125, et seq.
B. An order that Delta, its officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and
all persons acting for, by, through, or under it be permanently enjoined from:
1. Using the term "Flagship" (or any similar or derivative term) in
association with airport lounges, seating, food, dining, check-in, tickets,
airplane interiors, on-the-ground services, booking services, or in-flight
services;
2. Using the term "Flagship" (or any similar or derivative term) in any other
manner which creates confusion with American's Flagship Marks;
3. Using the term "Flagship" (or any similar or derivative term) which in any
way constitutes unfair competition with American; and
4. registering or applying to register any trademark, service mark, domain
name, or other source identifier or symbol of origin consisting of or
incorporating the term "Flagship" ( or any similar or derivative term), or
any other term that infringes or is likely to be confused with the Flagship
Marks.
C. An award to American of monetary relief in an amount to be fixed by the Court in
its discretion as just, including:
1. All profits received by Delta from sales and revenues of any kind made as
a result of its trademark infringement and unfair competition;
2. All damages sustained by American as a result of Delta's infringement
and unfair competition, including ascertainable damages, costs, and
attorney fees, and enhanced damages for willful infringement.
D. An award to American of all other relief as this Court considers just and proper.


Thanks. Seems daunting, but I think Delta can have a strong case in defense. They want profits? Why did they wait this long to file? If it is because they were not aware of the "infringement" ? If so, then that helps Delta as Delta's use is only differentiating within the context of users who are already choosing Delta.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:46 am

The funniest part of the whole thing is AA bringing in 2 national firms, plus its "let's hometown 'em" local firm Kelly Hart, and a total of 8 lawyers on the pleadings to do a case I could do myself. One thing's for sure, AA is gonna spend a lot of money on this.

I think I actually dealt with everything said in the last 2 pages in my post 14. I didn't see those nice screenshots of the DL web page, however, which is probably what set AA off.

I'm not sure it behooves AA to try to extract every DL use of the word "flagship" in its press-releases and to claim infringement by those uses, especially where the word is clearly being used descriptively. But it's a Big Firm case, so they will charge AA $100,000 to have some gnomes do exactly that.

For the guy with the Kleenex example, Kleenex is legally a strong mark because it is fanciful. Flagship is not, and not even by clever usage.

These guys will go 'round and 'round on this for a while, or DL will tell its marketing department to fire the nitwit who can't seem to stop using this word in its press releases. This is more likely the result of stupidity and lack of industry knowledge than it is anything else. It also illustrates how weak Flagship is as a mark, because the nitwit had probably never heard of it in connection with American, even though the nitwit was in Airline Marketing. I agree that all using it does is degrade the impression of DL's products for the few people who would mentally make the connection to troubled AA.

If DL was using "Whisperliner" or even "Clipper", I think we would be in a different place. But why would anybody want to do that?

Final thought: it does reveal a certain kind of blind AArogance for AA to think that AAnybody would want to try to associate themselves with the disAAster that AA has become. Is the couple-million dollars that AA is gonna spend on Greenberg and L&W really money that couldn't be better spent getting their AAct together?
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:01 am

D L X wrote:
Delta doesn’t have a registered trademark on “One.”


What is that R in a circle in that screen shot doing there then ?

D L X wrote:
AA does have a federally registered trademark on “flagship.” That’s the difference. You can’t use “flagship” in connection with air travel services in the United States Unless you are AA.


Anyone can use the word flagship as many on this thread have, the trademark has limited scope for what has been filed.

D L X wrote:
Seems like a fit, doesn’t it?


No, it does not. What that filing actually says is

“For: Passenger baggage checking and handling, namely, airport baggage check-in services; providing air transportation reservation services; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers; airline passenger ticketing, check-in and boarding services; escorting of travelers; providing professional support staff to assist in the management of travel plans; air transport of passengers, cargo....”

It’s filed in class 100 and 105 so it’s in relation to baggage checking called flagship and placing tags on articles that would have the word flagship on it. Hence AA use it as “ FLAGSHIP CHECKIN”.

D L X wrote:
Not in the United States.


“Lufthansa adds flagship A350-900 to numerous North American destinations”

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... tions.html
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Jamake1
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:06 am

Web500sjc wrote:

It seams AA is suing DL over the use of term “Flagship”. AA thinks that DLs use of the term in relation to DLs description of their own DL One suite in their “flagship a350s”, or their “flagship DL sky club in ATL” confuses customers who may be looking for AA’s “Flagship First Class”, “Flagship Lounge”, or “Flagship First Dining” services.


AA ought to just rebrand its product as “Flagstaff Suite” and “Flagstaff Lounge.” A nice ode to their Tempe predecessor. Problem solved...
Come fly the sun.
 
PA815
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:31 am

What kind of timeframe is expected for this to live through the courts? There might end up being an appeal from either side, depending on how the initial ruling comes down.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:54 am

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Delta doesn’t have a registered trademark on “One.”


What is that R in a circle in that screen shot doing there then ?



It’s there because DELTA ONE is a registered trademark of Delta Air Lines.

Registration 4769776.

“One” by itself is not trademarked.

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
AA does have a federally registered trademark on “flagship.” That’s the difference. You can’t use “flagship” in connection with air travel services in the United States Unless you are AA.


Anyone can use the word flagship as many on this thread have, the trademark has limited scope for what has been filed.



Many on this thread are mistaken. No, anyone cannot use the word flagship however they please if that anyone is an airline.

But yes, the trademark has limited scope, as all trademarks do. I cut and pasted the scope of the registration that covers what delta is doing. Are you just going to ignore it?



zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Seems like a fit, doesn’t it?


No, it does not. What that filing actually says is

“For: Passenger baggage checking and handling, namely, airport baggage check-in services; providing air transportation reservation services; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers; airline passenger ticketing, check-in and boarding services; escorting of travelers; providing professional support staff to assist in the management of travel plans; air transport of passengers, cargo....”

It’s filed in class 100 and 105 so it’s in relation to baggage checking called flagship and placing tags on articles that would have the word flagship on it. Hence AA use it as “ FLAGSHIP CHECKIN”.



In the part you just quoted, is “airline passenger ticketing.” Would you not agree that the reservations system at delta.com is “airline passenger ticketing?”

Also, it’s class 39, travel services, and i have no idea why you think it would only cover baggage checking.

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Not in the United States.


“Lufthansa adds flagship A350-900 to numerous North American destinations”

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... tions.html

Not the same. That a German airline is using the mark in Germany, even in English, is not necessarily a use within the United States. But beyond that, Lufthansa’s use is nowhere near as egregious as delta’s. LH is not using it to differentiate its goods and services, and (as far as I can tell) not using it systematically in their ads and reservations engines.
 
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:47 am

D L X wrote:
. I cut and pasted the scope of the registration that covers what delta is doing. Are you just going to ignore it?


You took it out of context by leaving out the first sentence, “ Passenger baggage checking and handling”

Nothing stopping them calling the aircraft type a flagship, where they have, but they would not be able to say have a baggage tag which had an A350 picture and the word flagship. Nor would they be able to call any of their premium services, their checkin system, their lounges flagship as these are services. The aircraft type is not a service.

As DL is using it to describe the type, and AA is using to describe the level of service. The filing is basically suggesting the entire aircraft including economy is a premium service.

D L X wrote:
In the part you just quoted, is “airline passenger ticketing.” Would you not agree that the reservations system at delta.com is “airline passenger ticketing?”


I read that to be “airline passenger ticketing” insofar as it relates to “Passenger baggage checking and handling”, ie they could not call it a flagship baggage allowance.

D L X wrote:
Not the same. That a German airline is using the mark in Germany, even in English, is not necessarily a use within the United States. But beyond that, Lufthansa’s use is nowhere near as egregious as delta’s. LH is not using it to differentiate its goods and services, and (as far as I can tell) not using it systematically in their ads and reservations engines.


Did you actually read the release and notice it was on their “media-relations-north-america” and the number of times the mention flagship ?

LH is using the exact same way DL is, to describe the aircraft type, not to describe the service.

Did you notice it was released by

Corporate Communications, The Americas Tal Muscal / Christina Semmel
Tel: +1 516-296-9474
East Meadow, NY, January 10, 2018

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/fileadmi ... ations.pdf
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:01 am

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
. I cut and pasted the scope of the registration that covers what delta is doing. Are you just going to ignore it?


You took it out of context by leaving out the first sentence, “ Passenger baggage checking and handling”



Yes because the context is legally meaningless. A trademark registration includes a list of descriptions for each class for which the trademark will apply. In the case of Flagship, the list is very long.

The trademark covers EACH of the descriptions in that list, individually. That means if you are doing ANY of the things in that list, you are liable to the mark owner.

You are completely misunderstanding how trademark law works.

zeke wrote:
The aircraft type is not a service.

As DL is using it to describe the type, and AA is using to describe the level of service. The filing is basically suggesting the entire aircraft including economy is a premium service.


No. This is wrong. Trademark law does not care that you want to call your aircraft type “flagship.” You may not use that word in connection with selling airline passenger ticket without license from the mark’s owner.

zeke wrote:

D L X wrote:
In the part you just quoted, is “airline passenger ticketing.” Would you not agree that the reservations system at delta.com is “airline passenger ticketing?”


I read that to be “airline passenger ticketing” insofar as it relates to “Passenger baggage checking and handling”, ie they could not call it a flagship baggage allowance.


You are reading it wrong. The list of the descriptions is not cumulative, and “airline passenger ticketing” is independent of anything about baggage and is independent of the other descriptions in the list.
zeke wrote:

D L X wrote:
Not the same. That a German airline is using the mark in Germany, even in English, is not necessarily a use within the United States. But beyond that, Lufthansa’s use is nowhere near as egregious as delta’s. LH is not using it to differentiate its goods and services, and (as far as I can tell) not using it systematically in their ads and reservations engines.


Did you actually read the release and notice it was on their “media-relations-north-america” and the number of times the mention flagship ?

LH is using the exact same way DL is, to describe the aircraft type, not to describe the service.

Did you notice it was released by

Corporate Communications, The Americas Tal Muscal / Christina Semmel
Tel: +1 516-296-9474
East Meadow, NY, January 10, 2018

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/fileadmi ... ations.pdf

I did not notice it was released in North America, because it really does not matter. Using the term once or twice is not systematic (again!) and nowhere near as egregious as DL’s use. That AA didn’t decide to sue Lufthansa has little relevance to Their decision to sue DL.

Zeke, do you realize you’re trying to explain trademark law to an IP lawyer?
 
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:52 am

D L X wrote:
A trademark registration includes a list of descriptions for each class for which the trademark will apply. In the case of Flagship, the list is very long.


Where is the description covers “aircraft type“ in the classes ?

DL is not calling its reservation system flagship, nor as they saying it’s a flagship ticketing system, nor are they describing any other service (checkin, lounges, soft product, hard product) as being flagship.

D L X wrote:
Zeke, do you realize you’re trying to explain trademark law to an IP lawyer?


No idea who you are, but your posts are contradictory enough to be written by a lawyer. One minute scope is limited then a minute later context doesn’t matter.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
UAL777UK
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:09 am

All I am going to say on the subject is this. When in aviation terms I am told its their Flagship service, I think of AA. DL knows they are treading on toes here surely!
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:20 am

UAL777UK wrote:
When in aviation terms I am told its their Flagship service, I think of AA.


DL haven’t actually used the phrase “flagship service” anywhere I can find.

UAL777UK wrote:
DL knows they are treading on toes here surely!


Which is why I think this was not done by some intern, they would have run it by legal and know their legal position better than anyone on here.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:56 am

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
A trademark registration includes a list of descriptions for each class for which the trademark will apply. In the case of Flagship, the list is very long.


Where is the description covers “aircraft type“ in the classes ?

DL is not calling its reservation system flagship, nor as they saying it’s a flagship ticketing system, nor are they describing any other service (checkin, lounges, soft product, hard product) as being flagship.

D L X wrote:
Zeke, do you realize you’re trying to explain trademark law to an IP lawyer?


No idea who you are, but your posts are contradictory enough to be written by a lawyer. One minute scope is limited then a minute later context doesn’t matter.


Actually, yes, DL is calling other services Flagship. To wit as alleged in the complaint:

[*]"This use by Delta was the beginning of a campaign to brand its premium-level interiors and services as a suite of "flagship products" or services. For example, in a December 2018 press release, Delta promoted the interiors of not just the Airbus A350, but also the Airbus A220, the Boeing 777, and the Boing 767-400, as new ''flagship products" that met its "flagship standards".

[*]As another example, in a February 28, 2019 press release, Delta said it "will offer its flagship Delta One Suite and Delta Premium Select products on three aircraft types including the A350 and updated Boeing 777s."

[*]Delta has also used the terms "flagship" and "Flagship" to promote its own line of remium airport lounges-a direct infringement on American's "Flagship Lounge" marks. For instance, in late 2016, Delta issued a press release titled "Delta Unveils Flagship Delta Sky Club at Atlanta's Concourse B." This press release detailed the opening of Delta's new "Flagship" Delta Sky Club airport lounge at the Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, and emphasized the "premium" nature of the lounge, targeting the precise consumers to which American directs its Flagship Marks. Twice in December 2019, Delta issued press releases referring to its new lounge at JFK Terminal 4 as a "flagship Delta Sky Club."

[*]Delta has since expanded the use of "flagship" to not just its lounge at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Airport, but what appears to be a growing line of "flagship" lounges across the
country. For instance, on January 7, 2019, Delta issued another press release entitled "5 features to look forward to at the new Phoenix Delta Sky Club," which proclaimed that Delta had "opened new flagship Delta Sky Clubs" at both "Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Seattle-Tacoma International Airport," and that this second "flagship" lounge "features local, seasonal fare from renowned chef Ethan Stowell."

On top of that of all that, DL's Flagship marketing is being parroted on blogs like OMAAT and TPG. TPG's article header from December 28, 2018, states "All Delta 777 and 767-400 Planes to Be Retrofitted With 'Flagship' Interiors." So, yes, the usage is not common and is creating confusion and dilution of AA's mark.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:28 am

In Atlanta there is a flagship Apple sore, flagship Nike store, flagship Whole Foods, flagship cotton colors, Etc etc. The flagship usage is no different, it is not being used to describe the service, if you go to the flagship Apple store your are not going to be confused as a consumer thinking it’s an airline.

A consumer must already know what Delta Sky Club is to make the association asserted.
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washingtonflyer
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:37 am

zeke wrote:
In Atlanta there is a flagship Apple sore, flagship Nike store, flagship Whole Foods, flagship cotton colors, Etc etc. The flagship usage is no different, it is not being used to describe the service, if you go to the flagship Apple store your are not going to be confused as a consumer thinking it’s an airline.

A consumer must already know what Delta Sky Club is to make the association asserted.


Its a different industry. AA's IP protection extends to its usage in the commercial aviation context. DL's use of that term is in the commercial aviation context.

Stick to the flying; we'll stick to the lawyering.
 
777Mech
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:40 am

D L X wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Google "flagship" and any major airline and see what results you get. :wink2:

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/qantas- ... se-routes/
Qantas eyes ‘flagship’ cabin update for proposed Project Sunrise routes


https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... 80-to-doha
Emirates to Fly Flagship A380 to Doha


https://upgradedpoints.com/united-polar ... mate-guide
Since then, United has had repeated delays in expanding their new flagship product.


https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... -time.html
Lufthansa’s Airbus A350-900 flagship aircraft flies to Charlotte Douglas International Airport for the first time


https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_GB/ ... fleet.html
Boeing 777 - This is the flagship of Cathay Pacific's long-haul fleet


If only that were how law worked.
steex wrote:
D L X wrote:
Oh boy...

This is REALLY problematic.

Image

It actually says “flagship” on its booking engine. Yes folks, that is deliberate.


I imagine a key point in DL's defense will be that one airplane (the A350) is indicated with the word "FLAGSHIP" on the website regardless of booking class or product, and they similarly label itineraries that have an A220 or A330NEO with "NEW AIRCRAFT" or a retrofitted 777 with "NEW INTERIOR." Seems like their lawyers could argue that red tabs in the booking window simply provide additional information about different types of aircraft, and that the A350 is Delta's lowercase-F "flagship" aircraft - it just so happens they use all caps in their text.

I'm not passing judgment on whether that defense holds water either way (and I most certainly am not an attorney), but seems a likely approach.

It is not a defense. Delta isn’t using the word to kip describe their plane. They are systematically using the word to sell air travel services connected to a particular product. That’s trademark infringement.


If they're not describing a plane, what does it say when your book an A330Neo SEA-ICN? It isn't Flagship.
 
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:51 pm

zeke wrote:
In Atlanta there is a flagship Apple sore, flagship Nike store, flagship Whole Foods, flagship cotton colors, Etc etc. The flagship usage is no different, it is not being used to describe the service, if you go to the flagship Apple store your are not going to be confused as a consumer thinking it’s an airline.

A consumer must already know what Delta Sky Club is to make the association asserted.



I'll provide one more example of a general use word that is zealously guarded but permitted in certain circumstances: Apple. Apple is a globally recognized brand and the name itself is trademarked in relation to computers, peripherals, software, etc.

Its also an incredibly commonly used word. We eat apples, we send kids to the Apple Tree Nursery School, we shop at Apples Grocery Store, we live in Apple Valley. But we don't dare create a new printer and call it Apple because a company has already obtained trademark rights to it. This is not in any way different than AA's use of "Flagship" in relation to commercial aviation services. There is no knowledge test that is required to create confusion and to diminish a brand. That test simply does not exist and you will not find a shred of a case law in the USA that agrees with you.

End.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:59 pm

All this underlines how silly the concept of owning a word in a certain context is. What is next could someone trademarks a negative word and then prevent others using that word to describe them without permission? Not that this is going away anytime soon. To go back to the Apple example they had exclusive rights for the word in computer context but ran into trouble when they branched out into their popular music service against a label that already had a trademark for its use,. Ironically founded by a popular 60s band that was the inspiration for the name Apple.....

Hopefully one day owning words will not be possible, but I am not expecting that to happen anytime soon.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:00 pm

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Zeke, do you realize you’re trying to explain trademark law to an IP lawyer?


No idea who you are, but your posts are contradictory enough to be written by a lawyer. One minute scope is limited then a minute later context doesn’t matter.

Come on, zeke. We've both been here for over 15 years, and we've interacted countless times. I'm beginning to wonder if this is the real zeke.

But yes, scope being limited is consistent with context not mattering. It is not at all contradictory if you try to understand what trademark law is. Every clause ending with a semicolon is a separate description being claimed. In fact, each description MUST be different from the others.

So, when the descriptive list for FLAGSHIP reads:

IC 039. US 100 105. G & S: Passenger baggage checking and handling, namely, airport baggage check-in services; providing air transportation reservation services; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers; ...

you can interpret that as
  1. Passenger baggage checking and handling, namely, airport baggage check-in services;
  2. providing air transportation reservation services;
  3. airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers;
  4. ...

I'm really not getting the disconnect here, so please help me help you by telling me what you do not understand.

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
A trademark registration includes a list of descriptions for each class for which the trademark will apply. In the case of Flagship, the list is very long.


Where is the description covers “aircraft type“ in the classes ?

Nope. Not how trademark works.

In trademark law, you don't ask the accused infringer "what did you mean?" You look at the trademark registration, and see if any of the claimed descriptions fit what the accused infringer is doing. In this case, the accused infringer is using FLAGSHIP with at least:
  • providing air transportation reservation services
  • airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers
  • airline passenger ticketing, check-in and boarding services
  • air transport of passengers, cargo, and freight
  • providing travel agency services, namely, providing travel reservation services for others, air transportation reservation services for others, vehicle reservation services for others, cruise reservation services for others and vacation reservation services in the nature of coordinating travel arrangements for individuals and groups.
These are all things AA's trademark covers.

zeke wrote:
DL haven’t actually used the phrase “flagship service” anywhere I can find.

have you tried Google?

zeke wrote:
In Atlanta there is a flagship Apple sore, flagship Nike store, flagship Whole Foods, flagship cotton colors, Etc etc. The flagship usage is no different, it is not being used to describe the service, if you go to the flagship Apple store your are not going to be confused as a consumer thinking it’s an airline.


No.

AA's trademark on "FLAGSHIP" is limited to things related to the sale of airline passenger tickets and related services. Apple, Nike, Whole Foods, and cotton colors are not using "FLAGSHIP" to sell airline passenger tickets and the like, so their use of "flagship" does not infringe AA's trademark.



I get it zeke, you're a pilot for Delta, and you want to protect your company. (I'm guessing based on your references to Atlanta.) But you've spread misinformation in literally every one of your posts on this thread, while IP lawyers like washingtonflyer and I, people that do this for a living, have tried to correct you. You're a respected voice here, and you're doing people a disservice. Please stop. But if you want to actually learn what trademark law entails, I think you'll find that there are knowledgeable people here (who also happen to be your customers!) that are willing to inform you.
 
incitatus
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:06 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Not a single person is going to see Delta using "flagship" and confuse it with American's offerings.


Why do you think that? Is it because those brands are household names?

Imagine Mercedes came out with a new model and called it M5. No one is going to confuse it with a BMW...?

Stealing brand equity happens all the time. This is just one example. Nothing unusual about this case.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:26 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
All this underlines how silly the concept of owning a word in a certain context is. What is next could someone trademarks a negative word and then prevent others using that word to describe them without permission? Not that this is going away anytime soon. To go back to the Apple example they had exclusive rights for the word in computer context but ran into trouble when they branched out into their popular music service against a label that already had a trademark for its use,. Ironically founded by a popular 60s band that was the inspiration for the name Apple.....

Hopefully one day owning words will not be possible, but I am not expecting that to happen anytime soon.


"Owning" certain words in connection with the sale of goods and services is for the protection of the purchasing public. Trademark law is consumer protection at its core. It ensures that when you see an advertisement or buy something that has a brand on it, you're getting that thing from the people you expected you would be getting it from, with the standards you expected.

Get rid of trademarks, and you will have legalized counterfeiting.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:29 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:

Its a different industry. AA's IP protection extends to its usage in the commercial aviation context. DL's use of that term is in the commercial aviation context.

Stick to the flying; we'll stick to the lawyering.


That is not true, the classes for example registration 5854303 are very broad.

The first one for example, the flagship apple store sells office machines and equipment, another example would be the flagship Whole Foods store which “food and drink catering; café services; restaurant services”. Then you have the flagship ballroom (https://www.seaportboston.com/meeting-e ... p-ballroom) which provides various hotel, conference and food and beverage options. I could find a lot more examples.

IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Office machines and equipment rental; company office secretarial services; providing office machines and equipment; provision of company office secretarial services; provision of office support staff; provision of clerical and secretarial services; providing facilities, office machines and equipment for conducting business, business meetings, and conferences; providing professional support staff to assist in the conducting of office business, meetings and conferences; membership club services in the field of travel and transportation. FIRST USE: 19980914. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19980914

IC 039. US 100 105. G & S: Passenger baggage checking and handling, namely, airport baggage check-in services; providing air transportation reservation services; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers; airline passenger ticketing, check-in and boarding services; escorting of travelers; providing professional support staff to assist in the management of travel plans; air transport of passengers, cargo, and freight; providing travel agency services, namely, providing travel reservation services for others, air transportation reservation services for others, vehicle reservation services for others, cruise reservation services for others and vacation reservation services in the nature of coordinating travel arrangements for individuals and groups; providing information in the field of travel; providing information concerning cargo and passengers' luggage in transit and delivery; transportation services, namely, checking of baggage; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers, including shower facilities; booking and providing ancillary travel services, namely, making reservations in the nature of seat selection, baggage check-in, transfer of checked baggage to aircraft, transfer of carry-on baggage to aircraft; airline services, namely, priority boarding for customers, seat upgrades, and access to airport lounge facilities; airport services, namely air passenger wheel-chair services at airport; airport services featuring transit lounge facilities for passengers. FIRST USE: 19360000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19360000

IC 043. US 100 101. G & S: Providing conference rooms; food and drink catering; café services; restaurant services; bar services; providing conference room facilities; providing lounge facilities for providing food and drink; Providing hotel reservation and coordination services for others; hotel services; restaurant services, namely, providing of food and drink in airports and on aircraft. FIRST USE: 19980914. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19980914

IC 045. US 100 101. G & S: Facilitating expedited passenger screening, namely, providing priority access to airline passenger and baggage security screening; airline services, namely, providing priority security screening for customers. FIRST USE: 19980914. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19980914


washingtonflyer wrote:

I'll provide one more example of a general use word that is zealously guarded but permitted in certain circumstances: Apple. Apple is a globally recognized brand and the name itself is trademarked in relation to computers, peripherals, software, etc.

Its also an incredibly commonly used word. We eat apples, we send kids to the Apple Tree Nursery School, we shop at Apples Grocery Store, we live in Apple Valley. But we don't dare create a new printer and call it Apple because a company has already obtained trademark rights to it. This is not in any way different than AA's use of "Flagship" in relation to commercial aviation services. There is no knowledge test that is required to create confusion and to diminish a brand. That test simply does not exist and you will not find a shred of a case law in the USA that agrees with you.

End.


Apple isn’t a good example, that is like American Airlines. However one of the Apples trademarks is lightning, another computer company would not be in trouble describing their computer, tablet, or phone as being lightning fast. For example intel describe their android tablet as being lightning fast loading web pages https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... blets.html
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Elementalism
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:38 pm

fedex1 wrote:
.... and this is what’s wrong with America! We sue endlessly . Get over it! Deliver a strong product, and deliver 1st class services and what do you have to worry about!? If all of America focused on what they can I do better, and quit all the court bs we would be much better off. My 2 cents which is worth nothing!!


Actually this isnt the worst part. Outside of dedicated AA customers. Who would actually know Flagship is an AA product? I remember a few months ago the CMO from AA claiming "We dont have a company identity" I agree lol, Never would I had known AA's product is branded as Flagship. And I have flown on AA recently a few times. And in my experience it is a pretty bad product. They should be happy Delta is trying to bring back prestige to the name. I keed I keed, but not really. :D
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos