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D L X
Posts: 12725
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:29 pm

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Zeke, it’s almost like you don’t read what I write—you keep saying irrelevant things, I keep telling you why it’s irrelevant, and you keep saying irrelevant things again.


No source has been provided to back the statement “This screen shot is the evidence of what caused the law suit”, Respectfully you have posted numerous claims which are not factual.

Can we please go back to discussing the topic and not me.

I’d love to discuss the topic with you, but I have repeatedly told you that it’s not about whether Delta sold a product called “Flagship” and you’ve repeatedly responded with “Delta never sold a product called Flagship.” I’m not the problem.

As for the allegation that I have posted things that are not factual, are you claiming the screen shot is fabricated?
 
StTim
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:55 pm

I sit here on the other side of the pond wondering what the hell is going on. I cannot understand how anyone can trademark a word in common usage from way before either of these two companies existed. Seems to me just a way for corporate lawyers to earn money.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:09 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
https://www.law360.com/articles/1230308/american-airlines-sues-delta-over-flagship-trademark


It seams AA is suing DL over the use of term “Flagship”. AA thinks that DLs use of the term in relation to DLs description of their own DL One suite in their “flagship a350s”, or their “flagship DL sky club in ATL” confuses customers who may be looking for AA’s “Flagship First Class”, “Flagship Lounge”, or “Flagship First Dining” services.

flagship seams to be a very clear description of an organizations best product, so while I understand AA may be upset about other airlines using this term, it is clearly an adjective used to describe products. Any thoughts?


Next they'll say that no other airline is allowed to use the term "First Class" since they invented it.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:21 pm

There was a time AA used the term luxury liner too ... I recall their Aurbus 300 used that term back in the days ...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:25 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I mean American can have SkyFirst lounge access and would Delta be ok with that?

"SkyFirst" is not a word in the common dictionary, while "flagship" is; and Delta uses it to its dictionary definition.
"flagship" shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:30 pm

alfa164 wrote:
D L X wrote:
Zeke, you are wrong. And your continual refusal to accept that you may be wrong limits the usefulness of our discussion. Fact: DL attached the word Flagship in connection with flights on its A350. That is 1) use 2) in commerce 3) in connection with the sale of goods or services.


False again. DL has not "attached the word Flagship in connection with flights on its 350"; it described the 350 as its "Flagship" aircraft. Not the "flights", not the service; but an aircraft. While that may seem to be a fine line, the fact is DL is not using Flagship to describe a service, but to describe an object, amounts to a substantial difference.

And that's where, to me, the term "flagship" falls into its Merriam-Webster (a.k.a. a dictionary) definition: "the finest, largest, or most important one of a group of things (such as products, stores, etc.) —often used before another noun"
 
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BubbleFrog
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:56 pm

StTim wrote:
I sit here on the other side of the pond wondering what the hell is going on. I cannot understand how anyone can trademark a word in common usage from way before either of these two companies existed. Seems to me just a way for corporate lawyers to earn money.

It's actually not that different in Europe. The Flagship items are registered here, too.
Last edited by BubbleFrog on Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Trippe747
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:58 pm

If I were on the DL legal team, I'd make the claim that DL bought certain assets of Pan Am, the original 'clipper' line and therefore carries the rights to nautical terminology for aircraft. #CheckmateJuanTrippe

Maybe AA could focus more on the product and less on the noise. Doug Parker is an empty suit.
 
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enilria
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 pm

ikramerica wrote:
If it’s long established branding, and DL is in the same industry, AA has a valid case.

Calling an aircraft your flagship is one thing. But to extend it to onboard product and lounges when a main competitor has been using that branding for decades is not kosher.

Agreed. When they use "flagship" with A350 they are calling the plane a "flagship" and AA has been calling its aircraft "flagships" for nearly 100 years. AA is essentially saying there are two definitions of "flagship" the literal which refers to a vehicle and the metaphorical where it means a brand focus. AA "owns" flagship as it related to airplanes via trademark. I think AA can successfully argue this Delta marketing refers to a vehicle.
 
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Polot
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:26 pm

Trippe747 wrote:
If I were on the DL legal team, I'd make the claim that DL bought certain assets of Pan Am, the original 'clipper' line and therefore carries the rights to nautical terminology for aircraft. #CheckmateJuanTrippe

That’s...just not how any of it works.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:37 pm

AA should be required to have an Admiral present anytime they designate something as flagship!
 
VS11
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:39 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
Web500sjc wrote:
https://www.law360.com/articles/1230308/american-airlines-sues-delta-over-flagship-trademark


It seams AA is suing DL over the use of term “Flagship”. AA thinks that DLs use of the term in relation to DLs description of their own DL One suite in their “flagship a350s”, or their “flagship DL sky club in ATL” confuses customers who may be looking for AA’s “Flagship First Class”, “Flagship Lounge”, or “Flagship First Dining” services.

flagship seams to be a very clear description of an organizations best product, so while I understand AA may be upset about other airlines using this term, it is clearly an adjective used to describe products. Any thoughts?


Next they'll say that no other airline is allowed to use the term "First Class" since they invented it.



American Airlines are not claiming that they invented the term "Flagship".
 
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jscottwomack
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:15 pm

Major US Airlines fight over everything. Surprised that they have not had a lawsuit against each other for the shade of red one uses in their logo. AA & DAL with Flagship. DAL & LUV over gates at Dallas Love Field.All the Majors at slot controlled airports. Either they need to learn to get along Or better yet..... I say we pick a neutral site and have a 3 round, no holds bared, winner take all fight by the CEO's and settle the petty bickering once and for all. We go old viking style with choice of weapons.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:01 pm

I wonder which American airline will be the first to sue other airlines for copying their idea to put seats inside their planes.
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:06 pm

Max Q wrote:
Interesting

‘Flagship’ was our radio call sign in 1986 when I flew the SF340 for Republic Express


I wonder if that callsign is still in use ?

Pinnacle/Endeavor used it up until a few years ago. I honestly had no idea that callsign had such a long history being associated with RC/NW/DL regional flying. You learn something new every day!
 
wjcandee
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:07 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I mean American can have SkyFirst lounge access and would Delta be ok with that?

"SkyFirst" is not a word in the common dictionary, while "flagship" is; and Delta uses it to its dictionary definition.
"flagship" shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked.


How about "Apple"? Specifically when it comes to telephones, computers and other electronic devices. Or, back in the Beatles' day, a record company.

I think you're on to it by pointing out that the way Delta is using it is as one of its meanings in the dictionary.

Apple is a word in common usage, but it has become a very valuable trademark as the identifier of a single source of a certain type of goods and services. And the reason it can be trademarked is that it is effectively fanciful when used in that way for those things (or maybe suggestive initially with regard to the original home computer -- i.e. apple relates to smart or teacher or school).

Apple apples would be another story, as I think you're basically pointing out.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:11 pm

jscottwomack wrote:
Major US Airlines fight over everything. Surprised that they have not had a lawsuit against each other for the shade of red one uses in their logo. AA & DAL with Flagship. DAL & LUV over gates at Dallas Love Field.All the Majors at slot controlled airports. Either they need to learn to get along Or better yet..... I say we pick a neutral site and have a 3 round, no holds bared, winner take all fight by the CEO's and settle the petty bickering once and for all. We go old viking style with choice of weapons.


You know that Herb Kelleher of Southwest Airlines settled the dispute over WN's use of the phrase "Plane Smart" with an arm wrestling match at the Sportatorium in Dallas, right?

I think you're on to something.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:00 pm

wjcandee wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I mean American can have SkyFirst lounge access and would Delta be ok with that?

"SkyFirst" is not a word in the common dictionary, while "flagship" is; and Delta uses it to its dictionary definition.
"flagship" shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked.


How about "Apple"? Specifically when it comes to telephones, computers and other electronic devices. Or, back in the Beatles' day, a record company.

I think you're on to it by pointing out that the way Delta is using it is as one of its meanings in the dictionary.

Apple is a word in common usage, but it has become a very valuable trademark as the identifier of a single source of a certain type of goods and services. And the reason it can be trademarked is that it is effectively fanciful when used in that way for those things (or maybe suggestive initially with regard to the original home computer -- i.e. apple relates to smart or teacher or school).

Apple apples would be another story, as I think you're basically pointing out.

Apple is a brand and the same of the company (same as Caterpillar, and Delta as well); not sure about Apple, but usually brands have history that's hard to dissociate from its every day meaning.
On the other hand, in this specific fight, we are talking about a service/attribute; I think that makes a big difference.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:13 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
"SkyFirst" is not a word in the common dictionary, while "flagship" is; and Delta uses it to its dictionary definition.
"flagship" shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked.


How about "Apple"? Specifically when it comes to telephones, computers and other electronic devices. Or, back in the Beatles' day, a record company.

I think you're on to it by pointing out that the way Delta is using it is as one of its meanings in the dictionary.

Apple is a word in common usage, but it has become a very valuable trademark as the identifier of a single source of a certain type of goods and services. And the reason it can be trademarked is that it is effectively fanciful when used in that way for those things (or maybe suggestive initially with regard to the original home computer -- i.e. apple relates to smart or teacher or school).

Apple apples would be another story, as I think you're basically pointing out.

Apple is a brand and the same of the company (same as Caterpillar, and Delta as well); not sure about Apple, but usually brands have history that's hard to dissociate from its every day meaning.
On the other hand, in this specific fight, we are talking about a service/attribute; I think that makes a big difference.

Again, ANY word can be a trademark if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale from a particular source.

The argument about genericness is a different one: that the word has become connected to a good or service without respect to its source.

Example: Yetis come from the company that makes bottles that keep things cold, that company is called Yeti Coolers LLC. Thermoses come from anyone that makes bottles that keep things cold. Thermos has become generic.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:18 pm

D L X wrote:
Again, ANY word can be a trademark if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale from a particular source.


Exactly.
 
silentbob
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:47 pm

wjcandee wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I mean American can have SkyFirst lounge access and would Delta be ok with that?

"SkyFirst" is not a word in the common dictionary, while "flagship" is; and Delta uses it to its dictionary definition.
"flagship" shouldn't be allowed to be trademarked.


How about "Apple"? Specifically when it comes to telephones, computers and other electronic devices. Or, back in the Beatles' day, a record company.

I think you're on to it by pointing out that the way Delta is using it is as one of its meanings in the dictionary.

Apple is a word in common usage, but it has become a very valuable trademark as the identifier of a single source of a certain type of goods and services. And the reason it can be trademarked is that it is effectively fanciful when used in that way for those things (or maybe suggestive initially with regard to the original home computer -- i.e. apple relates to smart or teacher or school).

Apple apples would be another story, as I think you're basically pointing out.

Apple Computers repeatedly violated settlements over multiple decades and had to be brought back into court time and again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Cor ... e_Computer
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:07 am

Trippe747 wrote:
If I were on the DL legal team, I'd make the claim that DL bought certain assets of Pan Am, the original 'clipper' line and therefore carries the rights to nautical terminology for aircraft. #CheckmateJuanTrippe

Maybe AA could focus more on the product and less on the noise. Doug Parker is an empty suit.


Doug Parker is an arrogant blow hard. I have no use for him as a corporate leader.....I also find it funny how he is the CEO of the largest airline in the world but is barred from entering Canada due to his unfotunate bottle habit.

However, I have friends who work for AA and I have had corporate dealings with the man and he's truly insuferable.

But back to the topic - Going by the dictionary definition, Delta isn't wrong in using the term Flagship when applied to their A350. BA referred to the Concorde as it's flagship and you didn't see AA gettings it's panties in a twist.....
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:19 am

D L X wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

How about "Apple"? Specifically when it comes to telephones, computers and other electronic devices. Or, back in the Beatles' day, a record company.

I think you're on to it by pointing out that the way Delta is using it is as one of its meanings in the dictionary.

Apple is a word in common usage, but it has become a very valuable trademark as the identifier of a single source of a certain type of goods and services. And the reason it can be trademarked is that it is effectively fanciful when used in that way for those things (or maybe suggestive initially with regard to the original home computer -- i.e. apple relates to smart or teacher or school).

Apple apples would be another story, as I think you're basically pointing out.

Apple is a brand and the same of the company (same as Caterpillar, and Delta as well); not sure about Apple, but usually brands have history that's hard to dissociate from its every day meaning.
On the other hand, in this specific fight, we are talking about a service/attribute; I think that makes a big difference.

Again, ANY word can be a trademark if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale from a particular source.

The argument about genericness is a different one: that the word has become connected to a good or service without respect to its source.

Example: Yetis come from the company that makes bottles that keep things cold, that company is called Yeti Coolers LLC. Thermoses come from anyone that makes bottles that keep things cold. Thermos has become generic.

Again, I'm not saying it cannot; I'm saying it shouldn't.
When a term has been used for centuries and has its own entry in the dictionary, then it should free for use by anyone for a good or service.
Allowing trademarking common dictionary words has lead to big companies bullying small ones (think Starbucks vs the local coffee place a few years ago) when the latter uses a common word: it's disgusting and should stop.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:57 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder which American airline will be the first to sue other airlines for copying their idea to put seats inside their planes.


DL in many places state they fly to American cities, this causes no consumer confusion as they know the use of the word American is descriptive to mean cities in America. DL in court earlier this stated their use of the word flagship was purely descriptive as it is used in nautical and aviation sense to describe the best in the fleet ( source Bloomberg law article “Delta Says It Doesn’t Infringe American’s ‘Flagship’ Trademarks”)

D L X wrote:
Again, ANY word can be a trademark if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale from a particular source.


Numerous times you stated it is irrelevant if DL has not sold a good or service called flagship (“I have repeatedly told you that it’s not about whether Delta sold a product called “Flagship””), yet you say a trademark is “if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale“. DL use the term to describe their best aircraft in the fleet, their products and services are available on all types (ie not just on the flagship aircraft), flagship is not connected to a product or service they sell. I.e. Their best product/service is Delta One, that is available on various types, it is not connected to their flagship aircraft, you can buy a Delta One seat and not step into an A350, and your can step onto an A350 without buying a Delta One seat.

D L X wrote:
As for the allegation that I have posted things that are not factual, are you claiming the screen shot is fabricated?


As previously quoted, your statement was “This screen shot is the evidence of what caused the law suit”. That screen shot didn’t appear in the lawsuit. For the record, it was not the full screen shot, it was a subset of the normal content. The part of the screen where the products and services DL offered for sale has been removed.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:37 am

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Again, ANY word can be a trademark if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale from a particular source.


Numerous times you stated it is irrelevant if DL has not sold a good or service called flagship (“I have repeatedly told you that it’s not about whether Delta sold a product called “Flagship””), yet you say a trademark is “if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale“.


Yes. Both those statements are correct.

I think you’re getting tripped up on “in connection with.” It is trademark infringement if one sells a widget called XYZ, or if one uses the phrase XYZ in connection with selling widgets, if XYZ is trademarked for widgets. We agree DL did not do the former. DL did do the latter.


Question: are you familiar with the phrase “Don’t leave home without it?” Do you know what the product is that that phrase belongs to? (If you’re an American born before 1980, you probably know.)

The key is that there was never a product called “Don’t leave home without it.” But everyone knew what that phrase was being CONNECTED to, and if you used that phrase in connection with the products that company sold, you’d be guilty of trademark infringement.

Tell me what country you’re from and I’ll give you an example from that country.


DL use the term to describe their best aircraft in the fleet, their products and services are available on all types (ie not just on the flagship aircraft), flagship is not connected to a product or service they sell. I.e. Their best product/service is Delta One, that is available on various types, it is not connected to their flagship aircraft, you can buy a Delta One seat and not step into an A350, and your can step onto an A350 without buying a Delta One seat.



Are they using the word “flagship” in connection with selling commercial airline services? Yes. That’s infringement. Whether DL calls their best product something other than “Flagship” does not exculpate them. What matters is whether an accused infringer is using a trademarked term in connection with selling something in the same class as the trademark registration.

Like DL has.


D L X wrote:
As for the allegation that I have posted things that are not factual, are you claiming the screen shot is fabricated?


As previously quoted, your statement was “This screen shot is the evidence of what caused the law suit”. That screen shot didn’t appear in the lawsuit. For the record, it was not the full screen shot, it was a subset of the normal content. The part of the screen where the products and services DL offered for sale has been removed.

Zeke, did you read the complaint before you wrote this?

https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public/des ... 1607483877

An example that looks eerily similar to this screenshot appears in the complaint.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2459
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:38 am

D L X wrote:
zeke wrote:
DL use the term to describe their best aircraft in the fleet, their products and services are available on all types (ie not just on the flagship aircraft), flagship is not connected to a product or service they sell. I.e. Their best product/service is Delta One, that is available on various types, it is not connected to their flagship aircraft, you can buy a Delta One seat and not step into an A350, and your can step onto an A350 without buying a Delta One seat.


Are they using the word “flagship” in connection with selling commercial airline services? Yes. That’s infringement. Whether DL calls their best product something other than “Flagship” does not exculpate them. What matters is whether an accused infringer is using a trademarked term in connection with selling something in the same class as the trademark registration.

Like DL has.

But why stop at commercial aviation? Why not extend it to travel as a whole? There is a Boat Charters company in San Diego, CA called "Flasgship Cruises & Events"; maybe AA should sue them as well?

How about American Eagle Outfitters? They are commonly known as American Eagle, which is also the name of the regional branch of American Airlines (including Envoy Air - f.k.a. American Eagle Airlines, Piedmont Airlines, PSA Airlines, all subsidies of American Airlines).
There is much more risk of confusion between American Eagle the airline and American Eagle the outfitter, since the name is strictly identical, than between Flagship as an AA service and "flagship A350" on DL website...

Again, where does this abuse of trademarking common words stops?

One correction to your comment though: DL does not "sell a commercial airline service" under the term "flagship", but uniquely identifies an operating equipment under the term "flagship". If I chose to fly a certain leg and book it specifically for flying the A350 (the flagship aircraft in DL fleet) and it's subbed at the last minute with another aircraft type, I cannot claim Breach of Contract since I did not buy the flagship service; however, should I decide to buy a flagship ticket on AA and the equipment is subbed at the last minute, then this is the basis of Breach of Contract and the airline will certainly reimburse the premium due to the flagship service sold but not honored.
 
D L X
Posts: 12725
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:33 am

WayexTDI wrote:
D L X wrote:
zeke wrote:
DL use the term to describe their best aircraft in the fleet, their products and services are available on all types (ie not just on the flagship aircraft), flagship is not connected to a product or service they sell. I.e. Their best product/service is Delta One, that is available on various types, it is not connected to their flagship aircraft, you can buy a Delta One seat and not step into an A350, and your can step onto an A350 without buying a Delta One seat.


Are they using the word “flagship” in connection with selling commercial airline services? Yes. That’s infringement. Whether DL calls their best product something other than “Flagship” does not exculpate them. What matters is whether an accused infringer is using a trademarked term in connection with selling something in the same class as the trademark registration.

Like DL has.

But why stop at commercial aviation? Why not extend it to travel as a whole? There is a Boat Charters company in San Diego, CA called "Flasgship Cruises & Events"; maybe AA should sue them as well?

How about American Eagle Outfitters? They are commonly known as American Eagle, which is also the name of the regional branch of American Airlines (including Envoy Air - f.k.a. American Eagle Airlines, Piedmont Airlines, PSA Airlines, all subsidies of American Airlines).
There is much more risk of confusion between American Eagle the airline and American Eagle the outfitter, since the name is strictly identical, than between Flagship as an AA service and "flagship A350" on DL website...

Again, where does this abuse of trademarking common words stops?

One correction to your comment though: DL does not "sell a commercial airline service" under the term "flagship", but uniquely identifies an operating equipment under the term "flagship". If I chose to fly a certain leg and book it specifically for flying the A350 (the flagship aircraft in DL fleet) and it's subbed at the last minute with another aircraft type, I cannot claim Breach of Contract since I did not buy the flagship service; however, should I decide to buy a flagship ticket on AA and the equipment is subbed at the last minute, then this is the basis of Breach of Contract and the airline will certainly reimburse the premium due to the flagship service sold but not honored.

Long story short, that’s not how trademark works.

No, AA cannot sue American Eagle Outfitters for using American Eagle. Trademarks are tied to commercial classes. AA doesn’t sell clothes, and AEO doesn’t sell air travel.

AA’s trademark on FLAGSHIP is tied to a narrow set of commercial activity, most notably commercial airline services. If someone uses FLAGSHIP in connection to commercial airline services, they are infringing AA’s trademark. If they are using FLAGSHIP to sell peanut butter, they are not.

That’s why this is not abusive. The public mostly thinks getting a trademark means you can prevent someone from uttering the word without permission. In reality, trademark law is very limited. And again, that’s why it is so astonishing that DL would do this: it was so easy for them not to.


One correction to your comment though: DL does not "sell a commercial airline service" under the term "flagship", but uniquely identifies an operating equipment under the term "flagship".


You have the same misunderstanding as zeke.

I never say DL is selling a commercial airline service under the name “flagship.” I’m saying they use the term “flagship” in connection with their selling commercial airline services. That is a fact. And it’s infringement.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3983
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:08 am

D L X wrote:
No, AA cannot sue American Eagle Outfitters for using American Eagle. Trademarks are tied to commercial classes. AA doesn’t sell clothes, and AEO doesn’t sell air travel. AA’s trademark on FLAGSHIP is tied to a narrow set of commercial activity, most notably commercial airline services. If someone uses FLAGSHIP in connection to commercial airline services, they are infringing AA’s trademark. If they are using FLAGSHIP to sell peanut butter, they are not.
That’s why this is not abusive. The public mostly thinks getting a trademark means you can prevent someone from uttering the word without permission. In reality, trademark law is very limited.


Tell that to Monster Cable. Despite your claims, they have sued, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, totally unrelated "commercial classes": the Discovery Channel show Monster Garage; Bally Gaming International's Monster Slots machines; with Hansen Beverage's Monster Energy drink; and even the Chicago Bears, who use the nickname "Monsters of the Midway".

AA seems to be following in their footsteps. And one question you still refuse to answer: if this case is so cut-and-dried, so simple and one-sided as you claim... why hasn't the Court granted summary judgement? Perhaps the Judge is just a little more dubious - or more analytical - than you are.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:50 am

alfa164 wrote:
D L X wrote:
No, AA cannot sue American Eagle Outfitters for using American Eagle. Trademarks are tied to commercial classes. AA doesn’t sell clothes, and AEO doesn’t sell air travel. AA’s trademark on FLAGSHIP is tied to a narrow set of commercial activity, most notably commercial airline services. If someone uses FLAGSHIP in connection to commercial airline services, they are infringing AA’s trademark. If they are using FLAGSHIP to sell peanut butter, they are not.
That’s why this is not abusive. The public mostly thinks getting a trademark means you can prevent someone from uttering the word without permission. In reality, trademark law is very limited.


Tell that to Monster Cable. Despite your claims, they have sued, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, totally unrelated "commercial classes": the Discovery Channel show Monster Garage; Bally Gaming International's Monster Slots machines; with Hansen Beverage's Monster Energy drink; and even the Chicago Bears, who use the nickname "Monsters of the Midway".



You should make clear that you are quoting from the Wikipedia page. Yes, Monster Cable is a known trademark troll. They are not nearly as successful as you suggest. (All of those brands still exist.)


AA seems to be following in their footsteps.



No. Monster sued random unrelated companies over uses in clearly different classes of goods and services. Monster is the opposite of what AA is doing.


And one question you still refuse to answer: if this case is so cut-and-dried, so simple and one-sided as you claim... why hasn't the Court granted summary judgement? Perhaps the Judge is just a little more dubious - or more analytical - than you are.

No, it’s because a court doesn’t just grant summary judgment. Defendants are entitled to put up a defense, which DL is doing. When there are no material facts remaining to be decided (as in, shortly before trial), that’s when summary judgment may be available. Now, that’s an oversimplification, but that’s the generally applicable schedule.
 
rbavfan
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:19 am

Ziyulu wrote:
AA should also sue DL for charging checked baggage fees since it was AA who started it.


Tecnically US Air started it. But then again US Air did take over AA.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:38 am

D L X wrote:
AA doesn’t sell clothes


Oh yes they do, even clothing with American written on it

https://aabrandstore.com/category.aspx?ID=12465

D L X wrote:
AA’s trademark on FLAGSHIP is tied to a narrow set of commercial activity, most notably commercial airline services. someone uses FLAGSHIP in connection to commercial airline services, they are infringing AA’s trademark.


It is a very week descriptive word which has not gained a secondary meaning or inherent distinctiveness for AA. Consumers don’t go around saying they are going to fly flagship, and other people think AA. They probably think of them as a nutcase not saying AA or American as flagship is not used that way by consumers to describe the brand.

I have provided several examples where other airlines have used the word flagship descriptively. When they use it, consumers don’t see the word flagship and automatically think of the association to AA brand. It is so weak that after getting their trademark in there was a “Flagship Airlines” operating in North America.

Every airline in the US also would use the word American in connection with selling products and services in America, again used descriptively not causing confusion.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:07 pm

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
AA doesn’t sell clothes


Oh yes they do, even clothing with American written on it

https://aabrandstore.com/category.aspx?ID=12465

D L X wrote:
AA’s trademark on FLAGSHIP is tied to a narrow set of commercial activity, most notably commercial airline services. someone uses FLAGSHIP in connection to commercial airline services, they are infringing AA’s trademark.


It is a very week descriptive word which has not gained a secondary meaning or inherent distinctiveness for AA.


Yeah, that’s just wishful thinking. An 80 year old brand used continuously has secondary meaning. There’s plenty of evidence of that in this thread.

But you are pointing to what will be a fight in this case—whether DL’s use is limited to descriptive use or whether they are systematically using it to qualify the commercial airline services they sell. Here’s a hint: DL changed its pages, so even THEY thought they were probably infringing.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:42 pm

Please keep on topic
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:22 pm

D L X wrote:
An 80 year old brand used continuously has secondary meaning.


The brand is American Airlines, or American, no one says they are going to fly Flagship, I guess except for those people who actually flew “Flagship Airlines” which I think was established after AA was granted their trademark.

Their trademark also has two parts, one is “premium air transportation services for first class and business class” where using flagship to describe an entire aircraft is descriptive rather than just the first or business class. And then “Providing premium food and beverage services for others; providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others.”

Clearly people staying at the Flagship Resorts https://www.fantasearesorts.com/resorts/flagship/ or at the Flagship hotel https://traveltips.usatoday.com/history ... 03306.html or enjoy the Flagship Ballroom https://www.seaportboston.com/meeting-e ... p-ballroom are clearly not confused with American Airlines “providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others.”.

You claim it’s gained a secondary meaning when there are another established businesses in the same sphere used the word Flagship not descriptively like DL has, as part of their branding.

So where is AA trademark challenge to “Flagship Airlines”, “Flagship Resorts”, “Flagship Hotel”, “Flagship Ballroom” ?

There are many examples around where other airlines and other companies outside aviation have used the word “flagship” to describe their best products and services, or even part of their branding.

D L X wrote:
There’s plenty of evidence of that in this thread.


Lots has been stated, I doubt any of it would be evidentiary.

D L X wrote:
Here’s a hint: DL changed its pages, so even THEY thought they were probably infringing.


How can you make such a claim ? of course it could not be associated with differentiation between the A350-900 and A330neo as they added “New Aircraft” when the A330neo joined the fleet after the A350.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:55 pm

Does anyone know if United's "Economy Plus" is trademarked?
 
VS11
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:07 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Does anyone know if United's "Economy Plus" is trademarked?


It is. Also, trademarked by United are descriptive words such as Premier, Personal Miles...for those that keep arguing that Flagship is too generic and common to be trademarked.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:12 pm

So Main Cabin Extra and Comfort Plus are also trademarked then.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:42 pm

VS11 wrote:
It is. Also, trademarked by United are descriptive words such as Premier, Personal Miles...for those that keep arguing that Flagship is too generic and common to be trademarked.


Isn’t premier miles a Citibank trademark ?
 
VS11
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:45 pm

zeke wrote:
VS11 wrote:
It is. Also, trademarked by United are descriptive words such as Premier, Personal Miles...for those that keep arguing that Flagship is too generic and common to be trademarked.


Isn’t premier miles a Citibank trademark ?


Citi PremierMiles is. But just Premier is United's.
 
usa330300
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:24 pm

D L X wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

How about "Apple"? Specifically when it comes to telephones, computers and other electronic devices. Or, back in the Beatles' day, a record company.

I think you're on to it by pointing out that the way Delta is using it is as one of its meanings in the dictionary.

Apple is a word in common usage, but it has become a very valuable trademark as the identifier of a single source of a certain type of goods and services. And the reason it can be trademarked is that it is effectively fanciful when used in that way for those things (or maybe suggestive initially with regard to the original home computer -- i.e. apple relates to smart or teacher or school).

Apple apples would be another story, as I think you're basically pointing out.

Apple is a brand and the same of the company (same as Caterpillar, and Delta as well); not sure about Apple, but usually brands have history that's hard to dissociate from its every day meaning.
On the other hand, in this specific fight, we are talking about a service/attribute; I think that makes a big difference.

Again, ANY word can be a trademark if it become connected to a particular good or service for sale from a particular source.

The argument about genericness is a different one: that the word has become connected to a good or service without respect to its source.

Example: Yetis come from the company that makes bottles that keep things cold, that company is called Yeti Coolers LLC. Thermoses come from anyone that makes bottles that keep things cold. Thermos has become generic.


Thermos is a trademarked brand the same as is Yeti. It is NOT generic. The generic term would be 'insulated.'
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:31 pm

Delta’s decision to use the descriptor “flagship” is interesting. DL has spent a fortune on building its brand and branding across all of its products and services. This includes ensuring the onboard experience is the same whether you’re flying on a two month old aircraft or a 20 year old aircraft. In other words, consistency and sameness equates to a uniform customer experience which further strengthens its brand. Given that, it seems inconsistent with its brand strategy to promote, for example, the A350 over the A330 NEO, as being the best/superior/premier/“flagship” aircraft among its fleet, especially since the onboard offering is no different.

As far as use of the word “flagship” in the context of this thread, I can see both sides of the argument. I also understand why AA wants to protect its trademarks and prevent any creep in usage if it lets something like this slide.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:53 pm

gaystudpilot wrote:
DL has spent a fortune on building its brand and branding across all of its products and services. This includes ensuring the onboard experience is the same whether you’re flying on a two month old aircraft or a 20 year old aircraft. In other words, consistency and sameness equates to a uniform customer experience which further strengthens its brand. Given that, it seems inconsistent with its brand strategy to promote, for example, the A350 over the A330 NEO, as being the best/superior/premier/“flagship” aircraft among its fleet, especially since the onboard offering is no different.


They are not using it to differentiate a product or service being sold on the A350, they don’t sell a product for example “Flagship Delta One”. They are using it as a descriptor like fastest flight time, nearest city, aircraft type.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:15 am

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
An 80 year old brand used continuously has secondary meaning.


The brand is American Airlines, or American, no one says they are going to fly Flagship, I guess except for those people who actually flew “Flagship Airlines” which I think was established after AA was granted their trademark.


Actually, AA, like its peers, has several brands. Maybe even 100 brands for its various services. And YES, people do say "I'm going into the Flagship Lounge" or "I'm flying Flagship First" just as much as they might say "I got upgraded to Delta One." If you're willing to accept Delta One as a brand, you have to be willing to accept Flagship as a brand also.

I'll ask you again, and I hope you answer this time. Are you familiar with the phrase "Don't leave home without it?" Was "Don't leave home without it" a product?

And if you're not from America, tell me where you're from, and I'll give you an analogy from your country.

I'm REALLY trying to help you understand trademark law here, so I hope you'll play along.

zeke wrote:

Their trademark also has two parts, one is “premium air transportation services for first class and business class” where using flagship to describe an entire aircraft is descriptive rather than just the first or business class. And then “Providing premium food and beverage services for others; providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others.”

Clearly people staying at the Flagship Resorts https://www.fantasearesorts.com/resorts/flagship/ or at the Flagship hotel https://traveltips.usatoday.com/history ... 03306.html or enjoy the Flagship Ballroom https://www.seaportboston.com/meeting-e ... p-ballroom are clearly not confused with American Airlines “providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others.”.

You claim it’s gained a secondary meaning when there are another established businesses in the same sphere used the word Flagship not descriptively like DL has, as part of their branding.


Secondary meaning is class by class, and YES. Flagship for air travel has absolutely garnered secondary meaning. (Example above: "I'm going to the Flagship Lounge because I'm flying Flagship First.")

As I said upthread I cannot explain AA's marks outside of air travel or reservation services. For all you know, Flagship Resorts has an agreement with AA to use that name. Cross licenses are quite popular in trademark law. But since secondary meaning is class by class, your discussion of classes other than the ones AA is suing DL in is irrelevant.

zeke wrote:
So where is AA trademark challenge to “Flagship Airlines”, “Flagship Resorts”, “Flagship Hotel”, “Flagship Ballroom” ?


That AA are not litigating against these other groups has nothing to do with the strength of this lawsuit.

zeke wrote:
D L X wrote:
Here’s a hint: DL changed its pages, so even THEY thought they were probably infringing.


How can you make such a claim ? of course it could not be associated with differentiation between the A350-900 and A330neo as they added “New Aircraft” when the A330neo joined the fleet after the A350.


This one is easy. I can make such a claim because before the suit, DL put "FLAGSHIP" by itself on A350 flights in its search engine, and once the suit was filed, they changed it.
 
alfa164
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:40 am

D L X wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
And one question you still refuse to answer: if this case is so cut-and-dried, so simple and one-sided as you claim... why hasn't the Court granted summary judgement? Perhaps the Judge is just a little more dubious - or more analytical - than you are.

No, it’s because a court doesn’t just grant summary judgment. Defendants are entitled to put up a defense, which DL is doing. When there are no material facts remaining to be decided (as in, shortly before trial), that’s when summary judgment may be available. Now, that’s an oversimplification, but that’s the generally applicable schedule.


This case, next week, will be one year old. Material facts are not generally the subject of Discovery; they should be, in truth, the claims made in Plaintiff's contentions - in Plaintiff's Original Petition - themselves. Discovery isn't going to change the facts on the ground: that AA trademarked "Flagship" to describe a service level, and that Delta uses adjective "Flagship" to describe its... well, flagship aircraft. The only gray area is whether or not these uses are different enough to contest AA's claim of infringement.

Any decent attorney, in the proper conduct of his business and relationship to his client, knows you do not drag a case on and on, excessively, but files a Motion for Summary Judgement whenever the facts support a belief that the client will most likely prevail in Court. If this is so simple as you claim, that would have been done long ago. If I - or anyone else - were to drag a "cut-and-dried" case through the Courts, we would (and should) be sued for malpractice.

No, this case is not so one-sided as you would have us believe. It's only you-vs-the-world here, trying to make it so.


D L X wrote:
zeke wrote:
Their trademark also has two parts, one is “premium air transportation services for first class and business class” where using flagship to describe an entire aircraft is descriptive rather than just the first or business class. And then “Providing premium food and beverage services for others; providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others.” Clearly people staying at the Flagship Resorts https://www.fantasearesorts.com/resorts/flagship/ or at the Flagship hotel https://traveltips.usatoday.com/history ... 03306.html or enjoy the Flagship Ballroom https://www.seaportboston.com/meeting-e ... p-ballroom are clearly not confused with American Airlines “providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others.”. You claim it’s gained a secondary meaning when there are another established businesses in the same sphere used the word Flagship not descriptively like DL has, as part of their branding.


Secondary meaning is class by class, and YES. Flagship for air travel has absolutely garnered secondary meaning. (Example above: "I'm going to the Flagship Lounge because I'm flying Flagship First.")

As I said upthread I cannot explain AA's marks outside of air travel or reservation services. For all you know, Flagship Resorts has an agreement with AA to use that name. Cross licenses are quite popular in trademark law. But since secondary meaning is class by class, your discussion of classes other than the ones AA is suing DL in is irrelevant.


Well... does Flagship Resorts have an agreement to use that name? Speculation isn't evidence. And, if your previous claims are correct, dilution of a trademark renders it less robust. Surely you have the answer for us.


D L X wrote:
zeke wrote:
How can you make such a claim ? of course it could not be associated with differentiation between the A350-900 and A330neo as they added “New Aircraft” when the A330neo joined the fleet after the A350.


This one is easy. I can make such a claim because before the suit, DL put "FLAGSHIP" by itself on A350 flights in its search engine, and once the suit was filed, they changed it.


So, is that an Admission Against Interest: that by changing it to the airplane descriptor "Flagship 350", Delta is now in compliance and American's claim is moot?

It would appear so - just based on your statements alone.


:roll:
 
FlyHappy
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:33 am

I have followed this thread and story since it appeared a year ago. I've read every post, as they've appeared. I am interested at an intellectual level, and greatly appreciate the input of the several lawyers who contribute their opinions and insights.

alfa164 wrote:
Any decent attorney, in the proper conduct of his business and relationship to his client, knows you do not drag a case on and on, excessively, but files a Motion for Summary Judgement whenever the facts support a belief that the client will most likely prevail in Court. If this is so simple as you claim, that would have been done long ago. If I - or anyone else - were to drag a "cut-and-dried" case through the Courts, we would (and should) be sued for malpractice.

No, this case is not so one-sided as you would have us believe. It's only you-vs-the-world here, trying to make it so.


I do not read D L X as saying the case is one-sided; just that there is reasonable basis for AA to pursue the issue. I don't think it's him against the world, AA's position makes sense to me, though I fully believe that "Flagship", as a mark is weak. To me, American is "something special in the air", LOL.
It is so many others who are so much more close minded that its "open and shut" win for Delta, because the laws "don't make sense", or they don't like AA, or "what about this/that".

I've done Discovery work on multiyear cases (nothing like this); sometimes it appears legal strategy is to outspend the other side.
 
alfa164
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:48 am

FlyHappy wrote:
AA's position makes sense to me, though I fully believe that "Flagship", as a mark is weak. To me, American is "something special in the air", LOL.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: Definitely! That has to be the best slogan they - or possibly any airline - used in what we look at now as the "Golden Era" of Airline travel..

And I really miss "Music 'til Dawn"... just in case anyone else remembers that...


FlyHappy wrote:
I've done Discovery work on multiyear cases (nothing like this); sometimes it appears legal strategy is to outspend the other side.


That may sometimes be the case (or, unfortunately, some attorneys who might drag a case out just for the attorney's fees). I would think that AA, considering they seem to be in the most precarious position of any of the major domestic airlines, would avoid that circumstance like the plague.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:10 am

Even if the case is not ruled in American's favor, it is likely just as important to them to signal that they are watching for stuff like this with their competitors. Give an inch, they take a mile.
 
D L X
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:15 am

alfa164 wrote:
D L X wrote:
No, it’s because a court doesn’t just grant summary judgment. Defendants are entitled to put up a defense, which DL is doing. When there are no material facts remaining to be decided (as in, shortly before trial), that’s when summary judgment may be available. Now, that’s an oversimplification, but that’s the generally applicable schedule.


This case, next week, will be one year old. Material facts are not generally the subject of Discovery;

Um.... wut?

I’m scared to ask you what you think discovery is for.

alfa164 wrote:
Any decent attorney, in the proper conduct of his business and relationship to his client, knows you do not drag a case on and on, excessively, but files a Motion for Summary Judgement whenever the facts support a belief that the client will most likely prevail in Court. If this is so simple as you claim, that would have been done long ago. If I - or anyone else - were to drag a "cut-and-dried" case through the Courts, we would (and should) be sued for malpractice.


No offense, but there is almost nothing true in this paragraph. Most judges have summary judgment on their scheduling orders and WILL NOT HEAR a motion for summary judgment before discovery ends, so the nonmovant has had its chance to dig up beneficial facts.

I’m currently in a case that is 16 months in. Neither side has offered summary judgment motions. You know why? We haven’t gotten to expert discovery yet.

alfa164 wrote:
No, this case is not so one-sided as you would have us believe. It's only you-vs-the-world here, trying to make it so.

You’ve completely misinterpreted my posts. Read the thread: I’m responding to the people who think AA doesn’t have a case. (Which I think has been put to bed, because as you note, this case is now almost a year old, and the judge did not bounce it on a motion to dismiss.)

alfa164 wrote:
Well... does Flagship Resorts have an agreement to use that name?

I don’t know and neither do you. What’s that got to do with Delta?

Alfa164 wrote:
So, is that an Admission Against Interest: that by changing it to the airplane descriptor "Flagship 350", Delta is now in compliance and American's claim is moot?

No. An admission against interest is an out of court statement that can be admitted despite being hearsay because people ratting on themselves are probably not lying.

Changing a product in view of litigation shows awareness of fault though.
 
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zeke
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:23 am

D L X wrote:
Actually, AA, like its peers, has several brands. Maybe even 100 brands for its various services. And YES, people do say "I'm going into the Flagship Lounge" or "I'm flying Flagship First" just as much as they might say "I got upgraded to Delta One." If you're willing to accept Delta One as a brand, you have to be willing to accept Flagship as a brand also.


My comment was people don't say they are going to fly Flagship and then associate that through a secondary meaning with AA, you said "Flagship Lounge" "Flagship First". Any laymen would agree that a "Flagship Lounge" is not in the realm of "air transportation", it is exclusive accommodation, entertainment, food and beverage on the ground, it is in the realm of "“Providing premium food and beverage services for others; providing food and beverage, catering, and restaurant; providing hotel accommodation reservation services for others”, their second class of claim. I have demonstrated various hotels and resorts that have used the world Flagship in their branding.

I fully agree "Flagship Lounge", "Flagship First" and "Oneworld" etc as being associated with AA as "Delta One" is associated with DL. I do not agree that "Flagship" by itself has gained the secondary meaning to be associated with AA, just like I don't agree that One by itself has gained the secondary association with DL.

D L X wrote:
For all you know, Flagship Resorts has an agreement with AA to use that name. Cross licenses are quite popular in trademark law. But since secondary meaning is class by class, your discussion of classes other than the ones AA is suing DL in is irrelevant.


Well since AA in their complaint have mentioned ground services DL has, discussion of other classes is very relevant, they opened that door. Such agreements would not be in the public domain and it would be reasonable to depose AA executives to gain that information.

D L X wrote:
Secondary meaning is class by class, and YES. Flagship for air travel has absolutely garnered secondary meaning. (Example above: "I'm going to the Flagship Lounge because I'm flying Flagship First.")


You have demonstrated my point, they are not saying they are flying "Flagship" by itself, and a ""Flagship Lounge" is not "air transportation".

D L X wrote:
This one is easy. I can make such a claim because before the suit, DL put "FLAGSHIP" by itself on A350 flights in its search engine, and once the suit was filed, they changed it.

That again is not true, the booking engine was changed some time after the filing, not upon or shorty after filing, as you can see in previous pages with screen shots on this thread that I took when this thread started soon after filing.

alfa164 wrote:
That may sometimes be the case (or, unfortunately, some attorneys who might drag a case out just for the attorney's fees). I would think that AA, considering they seem to be in the most precarious position of any of the major domestic airlines, would avoid that circumstance like the plague.


Who is actually winning, don't DL and AA at the end of the day have the same institutional investors as their major shareholders ?
 
DFWEagle
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Re: AA sues DL over the use of the term “Flagship”

Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:07 am

zeke wrote:
I have provided several examples where other airlines have used the word flagship descriptively. When they use it, consumers don’t see the word flagship and automatically think of the association to AA brand. It is so weak that after getting their trademark in there was a “Flagship Airlines” operating in North America.


zeke wrote:
The brand is American Airlines, or American, no one says they are going to fly Flagship, I guess except for those people who actually flew “Flagship Airlines” which I think was established after AA was granted their trademark.

So where is AA trademark challenge to “Flagship Airlines” ....


Flagship Airlines was founded and owned by AA!

They bought a couple of commuter carriers and merged them under the name “Flagship Airlines” precisely because of the association of the term “Flagship” with the AA brand. Flagship flew its flights under the AA code feeding AA’s BNA hub. The carrier was later merged into American Eagle.
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