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DLASFlyer
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Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:07 pm

Sounds like a nightmare at SEA last night. AS blames problems on a shortage of ground handling crews and rain. Planes waiting hours for gates, flights departing without any bags loaded, etc.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... travelers/
 
tiptoe42
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:17 pm

Rain.....
That’s funny
 
HPRamper
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:25 pm

They can't keep enough handlers working. It's not easy work and they are perpetually understaffed. I'd be tempted to call in on a rainy day too, if I knew I'd have only 3 people on my crew trying to quick turn 737-800s.
 
seat1a
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:27 pm

It barely rained here yesterday. Thursday and Friday was deluge.
 
DDR
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:30 pm

Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?
 
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andrefranca
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:40 pm

that's what you get when you give your staff hellish working conditions....
 
roadrunner165
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:40 pm

Seattle is a hot mess even when the weather is fine. I know the airport is busting at the seams but how long can this go on for? I’m MVP Gold and try my best to avoid Seattle at all costs. Tarmac delays getting in and out. Late inbound aircraft. Etc etc
 
bravotango75
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:42 pm

Rain...really...? It’s friggin Seattle!
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:42 pm

DDR wrote:
Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?


No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:42 pm

Boeing, Everett, SEA, and people wonder why I bring up PAE Paine Field.

How were operations at PAE Everett, Seattle’s other airport, useful for Boeing during the flooding, rain, or whatever event?

Were United and Alaska’s passengers employees able to get in an out?
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:49 pm

At least one bag belt broke at SEA, coupled with high levels of absenteeism among rampers. This caused a cascade effect where aircraft waiting for or unloading bags took longer, meaning they pushed late, and inbounds had to hold short of the gate at an already gate-constrained operation. It was a really awful day operationally, but the system has recovered.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:51 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Rain...really...? It’s friggin Seattle!

Seems like you don’t know much about Seattle. Light rain and showers are a common occurrence in Seattle. Heavy rain is not.
 
blooc350
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:59 pm

This is why we need AI technology. From baggage handlers to baggage system- the world would be a much better place.
 
barney captain
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:00 pm

BA wrote:
DDR wrote:
Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?


No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/


Yes, they did -

May 13, 2005, 7:20am PDT Updated May 13, 2005, 2:35pm PDT
Alaska Airlines Inc. has released 472 baggage handlers and other unionized ramp-service employees at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and outsourced their jobs to a non-union outside provider. The move is part of the company's cost-management plan, and saves the Seattle-based airline $13 million annually, officials said.


https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/sto ... ily27.html
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Tango-Bravo
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:01 pm

BA wrote:
DDR wrote:
Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?


No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/


When did AS fire Menzies for underwing ground services at SEA? ...or is McGee actually Menzies SEA acquired by AS? (kinda like the game of 'musical chairs' played by some of the regional RJ/turboprop operators whereby a "new" airline emerges which is in reality a re-structured existing carrier given a new name...perhaps under new ownership?)
 
COSPN
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:07 pm

If the ramp is not employed by the air carrier they could care less what happens it’s just a job... outsource your hubs is crazy. “You get what you pay for”
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:08 pm

Tango-Bravo wrote:
BA wrote:
DDR wrote:
Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?


No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/


When did AS fire Menzies for underwing ground services at SEA?


Menzies was released from their contract in 2017, and McGee began ground operations in SEA at that time. They are NOT the same company.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:11 pm

barney captain wrote:
BA wrote:
DDR wrote:
Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?


No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/


Yes, they did -

May 13, 2005, 7:20am PDT Updated May 13, 2005, 2:35pm PDT
Alaska Airlines Inc. has released 472 baggage handlers and other unionized ramp-service employees at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and outsourced their jobs to a non-union outside provider. The move is part of the company's cost-management plan, and saves the Seattle-based airline $13 million annually, officials said.


https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/sto ... ily27.html


No they do not.

The article and occurrence you are referring to happened in 2005. We are in the year 2019, not 2005.

AS does not currently outsource any ground handling operations at SEA.

All ground handling is done by their own subsidiary, McGee Air Services, which also is the exclusive ground handling operator at PAE.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Varsity1
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:20 pm

COSPN wrote:
If the ramp is not employed by the air carrier they could care less what happens it’s just a job... outsource your hubs is crazy. “You get what you pay for”


This is the truth.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:23 pm

HPRamper wrote:
They can't keep enough handlers working. It's not easy work and they are perpetually understaffed. I'd be tempted to call in on a rainy day too, if I knew I'd have only 3 people on my crew trying to quick turn 737-800s.

Days such as that can be very stressful for the low-paid ground crews. Weeks or months like that are just not work it, at that pay level anymore.
You never know, someone could go postal, and take a plane for a joy ride, or sumptin'
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:23 pm

BA wrote:
barney captain wrote:
BA wrote:

No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/


Yes, they did -

May 13, 2005, 7:20am PDT Updated May 13, 2005, 2:35pm PDT
Alaska Airlines Inc. has released 472 baggage handlers and other unionized ramp-service employees at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and outsourced their jobs to a non-union outside provider. The move is part of the company's cost-management plan, and saves the Seattle-based airline $13 million annually, officials said.


https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/sto ... ily27.html


No they do not.

The article and occurrence you are referring to happened in 2005. We are in the year 2019, not 2005.

AS does not currently outsource any ground handling operations at SEA.

All ground handling is done by their own subsidiary, McGee Air Services, which also is the exclusive ground handling operator at PAE.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/

It is outsourced. It's the same way with DL and DGS staffed airports. McGee is a joke, as is the way AS continues to treat the ramp.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:34 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
BA wrote:
barney captain wrote:


No they do not.

The article and occurrence you are referring to happened in 2005. We are in the year 2019, not 2005.

AS does not currently outsource any ground handling operations at SEA.

All ground handling is done by their own subsidiary, McGee Air Services, which also is the exclusive ground handling operator at PAE.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/

It is outsourced. It's the same way with DL and DGS staffed airports. McGee is a joke, as is the way AS continues to treat the ramp.


We are arguing over technicalities here... McGee is owned by Alaska Air Group.

They are not an external 3rd party provider like Swissport. They are an internal subsidiary.

DGS is a bit different now that Delta doesn't fully own them anymore. That's not the case for McGee.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:54 pm

As for 2005 article referenced, the query was "didn't Alaska outsource ramp..." they didn't ask when. So it is an accurate post. So, it has been outsourced since then. Mcghee is no different than United Ground Service or whatever, might me mainline owned, but not mainline respected.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:05 pm

This is a longish 2017 article about Alaska setting up the McGee division and replacing Menzies at SEA.
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/alaska-airs-baggage-handlers-at-sea-tac-get-an-upgrade/
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:15 pm

McGee is outsourced work. AAG just happens to own the vendor. Alaska Air Lines (also a subsidiary of AAG) does not own McGee.

I have no sympathy for airlines when their vendors crap the bed, owned or not. You get what you pay for.
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:30 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
McGee is outsourced work. AAG just happens to own the vendor. Alaska Air Lines (also a subsidiary of AAG) does not own McGee.

I have no sympathy for airlines when their vendors crap the bed, owned or not. You get what you pay for.


That's not correct.

McGee Air Services is directly owned by Alaska Airlines, which is owned by AAG.

AAG directly has ownership over two subsidiaries only, Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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usxguy
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:37 pm

"high absenteeism" = walk out from what I have been told by many. Not sure if its a work action or not.

Mechanics and others with SIDA badges at SeaTac for AS have been asked to help out for at least a week.
xx
 
DDR
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:24 pm

BA wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
McGee is outsourced work. AAG just happens to own the vendor. Alaska Air Lines (also a subsidiary of AAG) does not own McGee.

I have no sympathy for airlines when their vendors crap the bed, owned or not. You get what you pay for.


That's not correct.

McGee Air Services is directly owned by Alaska Airlines, which is owned by AAG.

AAG directly has ownership over two subsidiaries only, Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air.


Don't know why you argue with everyone. These ARE NOT Alaska Airlines employees with AS pay and benefits. Simple as that.
 
USTraveler
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:31 pm

BA wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
McGee is outsourced work. AAG just happens to own the vendor. Alaska Air Lines (also a subsidiary of AAG) does not own McGee.

I have no sympathy for airlines when their vendors crap the bed, owned or not. You get what you pay for.


That's not correct.

McGee Air Services is directly owned by Alaska Airlines, which is owned by AAG.

AAG directly has ownership over two subsidiaries only, Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air.




Look, if you're not directly employed by the airline itself, (i.e. look what your paycheck says) you're an outsourced non-unionized subsidiary employee. And I'm not pro-union.

Would you consider Amazon Prime pilots Amazon employees if Amazon happens to own a share of the outsourced airline?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:37 pm

Yes...it rains in SEA. No...it's not typical to have almost 4 inches of rain in 36-to-48 hour period.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:40 pm

BA wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
BA wrote:

No they do not.

The article and occurrence you are referring to happened in 2005. We are in the year 2019, not 2005.

AS does not currently outsource any ground handling operations at SEA.

All ground handling is done by their own subsidiary, McGee Air Services, which also is the exclusive ground handling operator at PAE.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/

It is outsourced. It's the same way with DL and DGS staffed airports. McGee is a joke, as is the way AS continues to treat the ramp.


We are arguing over technicalities here... McGee is owned by Alaska Air Group.

They are not an external 3rd party provider like Swissport. They are an internal subsidiary.

DGS is a bit different now that Delta doesn't fully own them anymore. That's not the case for McGee.


Whatever helps you sleep at night. They're not employees of Alaska Airlines, period, end of story.

You want to argue ownership and perceived technicalities but have no problem that AAG and AS treats them like shit. They didn't have mass sick calls, they had a mass "we quit" movement.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
trueblew
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:00 pm

DDR wrote:
BA wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
McGee is outsourced work. AAG just happens to own the vendor. Alaska Air Lines (also a subsidiary of AAG) does not own McGee.

I have no sympathy for airlines when their vendors crap the bed, owned or not. You get what you pay for.


That's not correct.

McGee Air Services is directly owned by Alaska Airlines, which is owned by AAG.

AAG directly has ownership over two subsidiaries only, Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air.


Don't know why you argue with everyone. These ARE NOT Alaska Airlines employees with AS pay and benefits. Simple as that.


This is correct. A company can outsource while still owning the outsourced labor. If there was no difference, why wouldn't they be Alaska Airlines employees? Ask yourself that.
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:05 pm

DDR wrote:
Don't know why you argue with everyone. These ARE NOT Alaska Airlines employees with AS pay and benefits. Simple as that.


Sorry that it bothers you that I'm looking at the bigger picture here and defending my position for it.

Anyways, this issue of whether McGee is outsourced or not is a matter of splitting hairs. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

Ultimately, McGee Air Services is 100% owned by Alaska Airlines. Therefore the employees working for McGee Air Services are ultimately Alaska's responsibility, should McGee Air Services management fail to address grievances/concerns. If McGee Air Services employees go on strike, you can bet that Alaska Airlines would have to intervene in some fashion to resolve the matter if it's not resolved at the McGee Air Services management level.

If Alaska Airlines was using an external 3rd party like Menzies in the past, or Swissport, then those employees would have no recourse through Alaska Airlines whatsoever. If the 3rd party ground handler fails to address the grievances/concerns of its employees in a timely fashion, and that causes a disruption in the services it provides to the airlines served, those airlines would terminate their contracts and find someone else, or launch their own ground handler provider (like Alaska did when they created McGee) or go as far as buy out a 3rd party ground handler, either way it ultimately becomes their responsibility.

The Puget Sound Business Journal in 2017, sees the bigger picture as well, referring to Alaska Airlines bringing back outsourced ground handling.

Alaska Airlines takes back outsourced Seattle baggage and ground handling work

Alaska Air has steered business from Menzies Aviation to its own McGee Air Services at airports in Portland, Phoenix, and San Jose in the past year.


https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... nzies.html

Sancho99504 wrote:
You want to argue ownership and perceived technicalities but have no problem that AAG and AS treats them like shit. They didn't have mass sick calls, they had a mass "we quit" movement.


How rude of you to put words in my mouth...

Nowhere in this thread have I stated that I have no problem AAG/AS treats the ground handlers...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
sxf24
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:15 pm

McGee employees have AS benefits. Their paycheck just comes from a different account. One purpose of McGee is to compete for third party business.
 
barney captain
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:19 pm

BA -

This whole debacle can be traced back to 2005 when AS unilaterally fired longtime permanent workers. Ask those employees if they feel this is "semantics".

Menzies, McGee, whatever - are all a direct result of Alaska's decision back in 2005, and they can own it.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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N717TW
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:26 pm

BA wrote:
We are arguing over technicalities here... McGee is owned by Alaska Air Group.

They are not an external 3rd party provider like Swissport. They are an internal subsidiary.

DGS is a bit different now that Delta doesn't fully own them anymore. That's not the case for McGee.


The answer stems from. the way the relationship is structured. If Alaska Airlines, Inc. has a contract (which by the press release listed below it probably. does) with McGee Air Services, Inc. then its an "outsourced" position. Alaska has no legal responsibility to the employees of McGee. When the contract is up, Alaska doesn't have to keep those ramp employees and McGee can lay them off similar to a plant closing even though Alaska will continue to operate. They are effectively "outsourced" employees with very little job security. Its a move by the company to keep costs down as you can fire and rehire employees every 3 years.

Alaska admitted as much in its press release. McGee is a "vendor" of the airline. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 42221.html
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:27 pm

barney captain wrote:
BA -

This whole debacle can be traced back to 2005 when AS unilaterally fired longtime permanent workers. Ask those employees if they feel this is "semantics".

Menzies, McGee, whatever - are all a direct result of Alaska's decision back in 2005, and they can own it.


Which is why, even the IAM, considers Alaska's move to terminate its contract with Menzies and create McGee Air Services, as a step towards reversing the course of action, it took in 2005.

New Alaska Agreement Will End Outsourcing for Thousands of IAM Members

In 2005, while Alaska Airlines was in the midst of a frenzied effort to boost shareholder returns, executives made one of the most ill-advised moves in the carrier’s history. They decided to outsource hundreds of unionized baggage handlers at Sea-Tac Airport in Seattle, Washington.

Investors hailed the decision, thinking it would generate higher profits. It didn’t.

The company that Alaska entrusted to handle ramp work, Menzies, was notoriously plagued with incompetent management and high turnover rates. To save money, the company cut corners on training and barely bothered to provide safety equipment to employees.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2017, facing labor unrest, legal actions, and persistent organized lobbying by union members, Alaska Airlines reversed course and fired Menzies. The work was awarded to Machinist Union-represented McGee Air Services.

For about 900 employees at Menzies, the news came as a shock. However, McGee representatives made it clear to the Menzies employees that they would not be fired or summarily laid-off. They would all be given the opportunity to become unionized workers at McGee. With unionization, they would also all get guaranteed flight benefits, better health insurance, and union-negotiated bonuses.

The president of McGee, Dean DuVall met with the former Menzies employees and welcomed them into their new company. “They were quiet at first, in shock, and processing. Then, as the meeting broke up, they were engaged and eager to talk to us.” DuVall told the Seattle Times.


https://iam141.org/new-alaska-agreement ... m-members/

Alaska Air, reversing course, will hire baggage handlers it outsourced

Alaska is taking its Sea-Tac baggage-handling contract away from the outsourcing firm Menzies and giving it to a new Alaska Air subsidiary. About 900 baggage handlers will now be unionized under the Machinists and will get better benefits.


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USTraveler
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:33 pm

How does the McGee benefits package compare to the in-house Customer Service ops benefits? At United it's exactly the same between ramp and customer service. McGee does gets some flight benefits but how do they compare to Main-Line employees? And don't just regurgitate what you saw on McGee's 'now hiring' website.

By the way *BA, there is a difference between Main-Line employees and vendors/contractors, no matter who owns them.
 
DLASFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:49 pm

Do Delta mainline employees handle Delta flights in SEA? Or is it a DGS station?
 
USTraveler
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:54 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
Do Delta mainline employees handle Delta flights in SEA? Or is it a DGS station?


Yeah that's gonna be mainline but a lot of them are gonna be classified as Seasonal/Ready-Reserve. They are considered new-hires.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:59 pm

From the internet:

Flight benifits started after 30 days of employement. You can use them as much as you want when you are not working. Keep in mind you only get on the plane if there are opens seats and McGee people are at the very bottom of the standby list. That being said I got to go everywhere I wanted.


I assume this is ONLY on Alaska Air. And from above I take it they are lower priority over Alaska Air employees on standby. So yeah this is a cheap sad out source job. I'd be furious if I had to do that hard job and not even get the same priority as other employees in my supposed Airline.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:03 pm

N717TW wrote:
BA wrote:
We are arguing over technicalities here... McGee is owned by Alaska Air Group.

They are not an external 3rd party provider like Swissport. They are an internal subsidiary.

DGS is a bit different now that Delta doesn't fully own them anymore. That's not the case for McGee.


The answer stems from. the way the relationship is structured. If Alaska Airlines, Inc. has a contract (which by the press release listed below it probably. does) with McGee Air Services, Inc. then its an "outsourced" position. Alaska has no legal responsibility to the employees of McGee. When the contract is up, Alaska doesn't have to keep those ramp employees and McGee can lay them off similar to a plant closing even though Alaska will continue to operate. They are effectively "outsourced" employees with very little job security. Its a move by the company to keep costs down as you can fire and rehire employees every 3 years.

Alaska admitted as much in its press release. McGee is a "vendor" of the airline. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 42221.html

I think you are missing the point. I don't see anyone trying to argue that McGee employees are not treated badly, or that the bad working conditions contributed to this breakdown. The point others are trying to make is that there is a fundamental difference in the relationship between AS and McGee, and AS and third party vendor. McGee and AS have a shared goal of maximizing profits for AAG. In a third party vendor relationship the short term goals of vendor are diametrically opposed to the goals of the airline. Each is trying their hardest to make a profit from the other Of course it's actually more complicated then that in the long term
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:08 pm

USTraveler wrote:
Look, if you're not directly employed by the airline itself, (i.e. look what your paycheck says) you're an outsourced non-unionized subsidiary employee. And I'm not pro-union.


My understanding is that McGee is union. The media coverage says it is a IAM shop. Anyone can correct me if that is incorrect.

The initial wages at McGee will be unchanged, but the contract with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) union will provide better benefits and incremental pay increases over the next six years, Verkerk said.
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/alaska-airs-baggage-handlers-at-sea-tac-get-an-upgrade/


McGee employees are unionized members of the International Association of Machinists, while Menzies employees are non-unionized.
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2017/03/02/alaska-airlines-seattle-baggage-work-mcgee-menzies.html
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
usflyguy
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:09 pm

BA wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
BA wrote:

No they do not.

The article and occurrence you are referring to happened in 2005. We are in the year 2019, not 2005.

AS does not currently outsource any ground handling operations at SEA.

All ground handling is done by their own subsidiary, McGee Air Services, which also is the exclusive ground handling operator at PAE.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/

It is outsourced. It's the same way with DL and DGS staffed airports. McGee is a joke, as is the way AS continues to treat the ramp.


We are arguing over technicalities here... McGee is owned by Alaska Air Group.

They are not an external 3rd party provider like Swissport. They are an internal subsidiary.

DGS is a bit different now that Delta doesn't fully own them anymore. That's not the case for McGee.


So, why aren’t they just AS, the airline, employees? Is it because they’re pay rates and benefits are comparable to those of companies such as Menzies, Swissport, DGS, etc.?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:13 pm

I will chime in. McGee workers are IAM union workers. They have okay benefits, but those benefits are not as good as actual Alaska workers. Pay I believe starts around $15 an hour, and they also get flight benefits, but are I believe lowest priority? So in terms of being a contract, they are one of the better contractors out there, but still meh.

As for the weather? It was garbage the last few days. Just walking up 7 steps from my door to my car, I was soaked. We got record rainfall, so it was not your typical light drizzle Seattle is known for. For $15 an hour, I too would rather sit back behind a warm fire and use a sick day.

Here is how I view it. They are contract workers, and have no real ownership in the company. I too would not hesitate to call out sick in those weather conditions if I was just a contract worker. Now, if I was an actual airline worker and was considered part of the team that helps Alaska achieve success, I would have likely swam to work.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:19 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
From the internet:

Flight benifits started after 30 days of employement. You can use them as much as you want when you are not working. Keep in mind you only get on the plane if there are opens seats and McGee people are at the very bottom of the standby list. That being said I got to go everywhere I wanted.


I assume this is ONLY on Alaska Air. And from above I take it they are lower priority over Alaska Air employees on standby. So yeah this is a cheap sad out source job. I'd be furious if I had to do that hard job and not even get the same priority as other employees in my supposed Airline.


This is what is true, just like any other airlines' wholly owned subsidiary. And no flight benefits on other airlines, unlike the mainline employees. Although some airlines provide this (Piedmont)... please tell me McGee does, although I doubt it because they don't actually have an airline operation.

You have to work for the actual airline to receive the mainline benefits, not the subsidiary that happens to be owned by the airline. If you're a Horizon Air employee (which is an actual airline, unlike McGee) for 20 years, guess what, the new hire employee with one year of employment at Alaska is going to get on the plane before you, on the standby list. (this does not include company-related business travel) Unless we're talking jumpeats which is a different story, and which McGee gets none anyways
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:21 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
USTraveler wrote:
Look, if you're not directly employed by the airline itself, (i.e. look what your paycheck says) you're an outsourced non-unionized subsidiary employee. And I'm not pro-union.


My understanding is that McGee is union. The media coverage says it is a IAM shop. Anyone can correct me if that is incorrect.

The initial wages at McGee will be unchanged, but the contract with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) union will provide better benefits and incremental pay increases over the next six years, Verkerk said.
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/alaska-airs-baggage-handlers-at-sea-tac-get-an-upgrade/


McGee employees are unionized members of the International Association of Machinists, while Menzies employees are non-unionized.
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2017/03/02/alaska-airlines-seattle-baggage-work-mcgee-menzies.html


Thanks for clarifying that then...
 
DDR
Posts: 1724
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:25 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I will chime in. McGee workers are IAM union workers. They have okay benefits, but those benefits are not as good as actual Alaska workers. Pay I believe starts around $15 an hour, and they also get flight benefits, but are I believe lowest priority? So in terms of being a contract, they are one of the better contractors out there, but still meh.

As for the weather? It was garbage the last few days. Just walking up 7 steps from my door to my car, I was soaked. We got record rainfall, so it was not your typical light drizzle Seattle is known for. For $15 an hour, I too would rather sit back behind a warm fire and use a sick day.

Here is how I view it. They are contract workers, and have no real ownership in the company. I too would not hesitate to call out sick in those weather conditions if I was just a contract worker. Now, if I was an actual airline worker and was considered part of the team that helps Alaska achieve success, I would have likely swam to work.


Great post F9Animal. Describes the situation perfectly. People loading the bags are not Alaska Airlines employees.
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:36 pm

N717TW wrote:
BA wrote:
We are arguing over technicalities here... McGee is owned by Alaska Air Group.

They are not an external 3rd party provider like Swissport. They are an internal subsidiary.

DGS is a bit different now that Delta doesn't fully own them anymore. That's not the case for McGee.


The answer stems from. the way the relationship is structured. If Alaska Airlines, Inc. has a contract (which by the press release listed below it probably. does) with McGee Air Services, Inc. then its an "outsourced" position. Alaska has no legal responsibility to the employees of McGee. When the contract is up, Alaska doesn't have to keep those ramp employees and McGee can lay them off similar to a plant closing even though Alaska will continue to operate. They are effectively "outsourced" employees with very little job security. Its a move by the company to keep costs down as you can fire and rehire employees every 3 years.

Alaska admitted as much in its press release. McGee is a "vendor" of the airline. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 42221.html


Yes, McGee Air Services is a "vendor." One of the reasons Alaska did this, instead of creating an internal ground handling department, is so they can compete for 3rd party business.

At PAE for example, they got the contract to be the exclusive ground handler, so they handle both Alaska (Horizon) and United flights.

You are correct, that if Alaska wanted to, they could chose to not keep those employees anymore after the contract ends, however, how's that honestly really any different from deciding to lay off internal ground handlers, as it did in 2005 and awarding a contract to Menzies? In both situations, people lose jobs/benefits. It sucks.

Don't forget that McGee Air Services employees are unionized, represented by the IAM, just as the ground handlers within Alaska Airlines prior to them being laid off in 2005 were.

Back to the point I mentioned earlier, if McGee Air Services employees go on strike or McGee Air Services fails to perform services adequately to Alaska Airlines, you can bet that Alaska Airlines will intervene if it has to.

If Alaska was using an external 3rd party provider, like Menzies or Swissport, there's really nothing Alaska Airlines could do to address the problems of that 3rd party provider, other than terminating the contract due to failure to perform to the contract terms, and going elsewhere, which is exactly what they did with Menzies.

In the case of McGee Air Services, they could shake up the management, step in and temporarily take control of tasks/functions until it feels it can step back.

Whatever becomes McGee Air Services problem, becomes Alaska Airlines' problem if it's not resolved at the McGee Air Services level.

I'm not at all arguing that McGee employees have grievances and are not adequately compensated.

As it relates to this specific thread topic, if high absenteeism continues due to poor compensation at McGee, it will start to affect Alaska Airlines' bottom line and it will have to intervene in some way.

Whatever recourse happens, whether it's increased pay, better health benefits, etc. it will somehow indirectly involve and thus affect Alaska Airlines since they are the sole owner of McGee Air Services. If McGee Air Services agrees to increased compensation/better health benefits that results in "increased costs" it ultimately means "increased costs" for Alaska Airlines.

If Alaska was using Menzies, Swissport, etc. and those vendors agreed to improve compensation for their employees and thus incurr "increased costs," they already have a contract in place with the airlines with specific terms and conditions that cover pricing that the airline is not obligated to change until contract renewal when Menzies/Swissport can argue at the negotiation table for higher fees due to increased operating costs at the risk of losing business.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:48 pm

The rain for the last 3 days was not typical Seattle rain... I drove to the airport yesterday morning and it just feels different.

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