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gmcc
Posts: 334
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:26 am

Anyone who says mcgee is non union is wrong. McGee is a union shop represented by the IAM
http://www.iam720.org
Transited through SEA yesterday but did not have any luggage so I missed out on that fun. When I went through in the morning they were deicing some planes. All I can say about that is that snails are faster than the deicing operation in SEA. It seemed to take about 10- 20 minutes for just the one plane I saw. I will say the ramp employees in SEA were hustling to get things going. They did a better job that the ramp at LAX who didn't have a tail stand for a 737-900 that had been sent to the penalty box for 20 minute. That cause a lot of chaos in the deplaning.
 
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Jamake1
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:37 am

For the sake of argument, let’s just call McGee Air Services an internal third party vendor rather than an external third party vendor. Regardless of who owns the vendor, the bigger POINT is that the McGee pay and benefits package is likely not commensurate with the pay and benefits package that AS ramp staff earned prior to being outsourced in 2005. Can we at least agree on that?
Come fly the sun.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 703
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:41 am

BA wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
You want to argue ownership and perceived technicalities but have no problem that AAG and AS treats them like shit. They didn't have mass sick calls, they had a mass "we quit" movement.


How rude of you to put words in my mouth...

Nowhere in this thread have I stated that I have no problem AAG/AS treats the ground handlers...


I didn't put words into your mouth. I responded to your postings. Several posts after this one, you're still arguing about whether they're outsourced or not.

Let me put it to you this way, people are either insourced or outsourced. They are NOT employed by Alaska Airlines, therefore, they are outsourced labor.
It's no different than AA with Envoy and Piedmont.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:45 am

CobaltScar wrote:
From the internet:

Flight benifits started after 30 days of employement. You can use them as much as you want when you are not working. Keep in mind you only get on the plane if there are opens seats and McGee people are at the very bottom of the standby list. That being said I got to go everywhere I wanted.


I assume this is ONLY on Alaska Air. And from above I take it they are lower priority over Alaska Air employees on standby. So yeah this is a cheap sad out source job. I'd be furious if I had to do that hard job and not even get the same priority as other employees in my supposed Airline.

I imagine they fly on the lowest priority level just like the other wholly owned ones did(AMR=AA, DGS=DL, etc). Horizon employees will get on before they do.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:48 am

Jamake1 wrote:
For the sake of argument, let’s just call McGee Air Services an internal third party vendor rather than an external third party vendor. Regardless of who owns the vendor, the bigger POINT is that the McGee pay and benefits package is likely not commensurate with the pay and benefits package that AS ramp staff earned prior to being outsourced in 2005. Can we at least agree on that?


My starting pay on the AS ramp in '99 was $7.30-ish ($11.30 or so in today's money). I think I was up to $12 in '04 when I moved on. Starting pay at McGee in SEA today is $16. Not sure what the ramp contract at AS looks like today. The McGee contract has fewer holidays and no double time.

AS is certainly saving money, but probably not as much as they thought they would save on that fateful day in 2005.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:50 am

BA wrote:
barney captain wrote:
BA -

This whole debacle can be traced back to 2005 when AS unilaterally fired longtime permanent workers. Ask those employees if they feel this is "semantics".

Menzies, McGee, whatever - are all a direct result of Alaska's decision back in 2005, and they can own it.


Which is why, even the IAM, considers Alaska's move to terminate its contract with Menzies and create McGee Air Services, as a step towards reversing the course of action, it took in 2005.

New Alaska Agreement Will End Outsourcing for Thousands of IAM Members

In 2005, while Alaska Airlines was in the midst of a frenzied effort to boost shareholder returns, executives made one of the most ill-advised moves in the carrier’s history. They decided to outsource hundreds of unionized baggage handlers at Sea-Tac Airport in Seattle, Washington.

Investors hailed the decision, thinking it would generate higher profits. It didn’t.

The company that Alaska entrusted to handle ramp work, Menzies, was notoriously plagued with incompetent management and high turnover rates. To save money, the company cut corners on training and barely bothered to provide safety equipment to employees.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2017, facing labor unrest, legal actions, and persistent organized lobbying by union members, Alaska Airlines reversed course and fired Menzies. The work was awarded to Machinist Union-represented McGee Air Services.

For about 900 employees at Menzies, the news came as a shock. However, McGee representatives made it clear to the Menzies employees that they would not be fired or summarily laid-off. They would all be given the opportunity to become unionized workers at McGee. With unionization, they would also all get guaranteed flight benefits, better health insurance, and union-negotiated bonuses.

The president of McGee, Dean DuVall met with the former Menzies employees and welcomed them into their new company. “They were quiet at first, in shock, and processing. Then, as the meeting broke up, they were engaged and eager to talk to us.” DuVall told the Seattle Times.


https://iam141.org/new-alaska-agreement ... m-members/

Alaska Air, reversing course, will hire baggage handlers it outsourced

Alaska is taking its Sea-Tac baggage-handling contract away from the outsourcing firm Menzies and giving it to a new Alaska Air subsidiary. About 900 baggage handlers will now be unionized under the Machinists and will get better benefits.


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/



Good to see that the IAM has a pretty good PR department and a really good advertising firm.......their healthcare benefits are significantly worse than mainline employees.... the only thing McGee gets the better end of the deal is on starting pay.... but then they have a significantly lower top out than what they would get if they were mainline employees....


By the way, when I worked for Globe Ground, taken over by ServisAir and renamed Penauille ServisAir, we had IAM backing us and still got crap pay and benefits....
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 206
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:52 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
From the internet:

Flight benifits started after 30 days of employement. You can use them as much as you want when you are not working. Keep in mind you only get on the plane if there are opens seats and McGee people are at the very bottom of the standby list. That being said I got to go everywhere I wanted.


I assume this is ONLY on Alaska Air. And from above I take it they are lower priority over Alaska Air employees on standby. So yeah this is a cheap sad out source job. I'd be furious if I had to do that hard job and not even get the same priority as other employees in my supposed Airline.

I imagine they fly on the lowest priority level just like the other wholly owned ones did(AMR=AA, DGS=DL, etc). Horizon employees will get on before they do.


Probably no access to ZED tickets, either.
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:55 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
I didn't put words into your mouth. I responded to your postings.


Yes you did put words in my mouth. You accused me of not caring about how the ground handling employees are poorly treated by AAG/AS.

When I made no such comment anywhere in this thread, about the treatment of ground handling employees. That was uncalled for.

Your quote below here:

Sancho99504 wrote:
You want to argue ownership and perceived technicalities but have no problem that AAG and AS treats them like shit. They didn't have mass sick calls, they had a mass "we quit" movement.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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admanager
Posts: 283
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:59 am

Friday was the wettest day Seattle has seen this decade, according to the National Weather Service.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... n-the-way/

Re wages, bear in mind the SEATAC minimum wage. "On January 1, 2018, the minimum wage rate in the City of SeaTac increased to $15.64 per hour. The minimum wage rate applies to hospitality and transportation workers in and near Seattle-Tacoma International Airport."
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:07 am

BA wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I didn't put words into your mouth. I responded to your postings.


Yes you did put words in my mouth. You accused me of not caring about how the ground handling employees are poorly treated by AAG/AS.

When I made no such comment anywhere in this thread, about the treatment of ground handling employees. That was uncalled for.

Your quote below here:

Sancho99504 wrote:
You want to argue ownership and perceived technicalities but have no problem that AAG and AS treats them like shit. They didn't have mass sick calls, they had a mass "we quit" movement.


My original comment is below. You have yet to acknowledge the reason for this meltdown because you're so worried about how McGee is referred to.


It is outsourced. It's the same way with DL and DGS staffed airports. McGee is a joke, as is the way AS continues to treat the ramp.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Curiousflyer
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:24 am

Given how high the cost of living in Seattle is, and the low unemployment, why would people deal with a bad job and harsh conditions? I would look for a better job and go. I do not blame them at all.
 
BA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:50 am

Jamake1 wrote:
For the sake of argument, let’s just call McGee Air Services an internal third party vendor rather than an external third party vendor. Regardless of who owns the vendor, the bigger POINT is that the McGee pay and benefits package is likely not commensurate with the pay and benefits package that AS ramp staff earned prior to being outsourced in 2005. Can we at least agree on that?


Thank you, this comment is spot on. That is exactly what McGee Air Services is, an internal vendor to Alaska Airlines.

Without Alaska Airlines, there would be no McGee Air Services. McGee Air Services exists to service Alaska Airlines (and potentially other airlines in the future). It's not more complicated than that.

Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that McGee Air Services employees share the same pay and benefits package as Alaska Airlines employees. I never even debated that. The only comment I made about McGee Air Services employees is that they are unionized, backed by the IAM. Unlike employees of Menzies.

Here's an article from the Seattle Times that has a good summary on the background of McGee Air Service taking over ground handling from Menzies:

Alaska Air, reversing course, will hire baggage handlers it outsourced

Alaska is taking its Sea-Tac baggage-handling contract away from the outsourcing firm Menzies and giving it to a new Alaska Air subsidiary. About 900 baggage handlers will now be unionized under the Machinists and will get better benefits.


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USAirKid
Posts: 623
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:03 am

admanager wrote:
Re wages, bear in mind the SEATAC minimum wage. "On January 1, 2018, the minimum wage rate in the City of SeaTac increased to $15.64 per hour. The minimum wage rate applies to hospitality and transportation workers in and near Seattle-Tacoma International Airport."


AFAIK the City of SeaTac minimum wage does not apply to jobs at the SeaTac Airport as the airport is owned and operated by the Port of Seattle, which is an independent governmental entity of the state of Washington, roughly on the same level as the City of SeaTac. Additionally, I believe there is a carve out on that minimum wage for union represented employees. It’s one of the reasons why McGee/AS essentially invited the union onto the property when McGee was founded.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:49 am

It was the 5th highest rainfall in record for 24 hours. It was also the darkest day in 20 years, measured in total Joules. Were there problems earlier in the week?
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4990
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:51 am

USAirKid wrote:
AFAIK the City of SeaTac minimum wage does not apply to jobs at the SeaTac Airport as the airport is owned and operated by the Port of Seattle, which is an independent governmental entity of the state of Washington, roughly on the same level as the City of SeaTac. Additionally, I believe there is a carve out on that minimum wage for union represented employees. It’s one of the reasons why McGee/AS essentially invited the union onto the property when McGee was founded.


The Washington Supreme Court ruled in 2015 that the SeaTac minimum wage does apply to the airport.
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/economy/states-high-court-extends-seatac-minimum-wage-to-airport-workers/

But there are 2 carve outs.

One as you mentioned is for union represented employees. The other carve out is for directly employed airline workers (Federal Railway Labor Act comes into play).
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
USTraveler
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:50 am

BA wrote:
Jamake1 wrote:
For the sake of argument, let’s just call McGee Air Services an internal third party vendor rather than an external third party vendor. Regardless of who owns the vendor, the bigger POINT is that the McGee pay and benefits package is likely not commensurate with the pay and benefits package that AS ramp staff earned prior to being outsourced in 2005. Can we at least agree on that?


Thank you, this comment is spot on. That is exactly what McGee Air Services is, an internal vendor to Alaska Airlines.

Without Alaska Airlines, there would be no McGee Air Services. McGee Air Services exists to service Alaska Airlines (and potentially other airlines in the future). It's not more complicated than that.

Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that McGee Air Services employees share the same pay and benefits package as Alaska Airlines employees. I never even debated that. The only comment I made about McGee Air Services employees is that they are unionized, backed by the IAM. Unlike employees of Menzies.

Here's an article from the Seattle Times that has a good summary on the background of McGee Air Service taking over ground handling from Menzies:

Alaska Air, reversing course, will hire baggage handlers it outsourced

Alaska is taking its Sea-Tac baggage-handling contract away from the outsourcing firm Menzies and giving it to a new Alaska Air subsidiary. About 900 baggage handlers will now be unionized under the Machinists and will get better benefits.


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/




The Seattle Times misled you and you keep falling for it. Surely that's not the first time you've been duped.

Let me ask you this: Is an AeroLogic pilot a Lufthhansa or DHL employee? Answer: they are an AeroLogic employee.
 
BA
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:20 am

USTraveler wrote:
BA wrote:
Jamake1 wrote:
For the sake of argument, let’s just call McGee Air Services an internal third party vendor rather than an external third party vendor. Regardless of who owns the vendor, the bigger POINT is that the McGee pay and benefits package is likely not commensurate with the pay and benefits package that AS ramp staff earned prior to being outsourced in 2005. Can we at least agree on that?


Thank you, this comment is spot on. That is exactly what McGee Air Services is, an internal vendor to Alaska Airlines.

Without Alaska Airlines, there would be no McGee Air Services. McGee Air Services exists to service Alaska Airlines (and potentially other airlines in the future). It's not more complicated than that.

Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that McGee Air Services employees share the same pay and benefits package as Alaska Airlines employees. I never even debated that. The only comment I made about McGee Air Services employees is that they are unionized, backed by the IAM. Unlike employees of Menzies.

Here's an article from the Seattle Times that has a good summary on the background of McGee Air Service taking over ground handling from Menzies:

Alaska Air, reversing course, will hire baggage handlers it outsourced

Alaska is taking its Sea-Tac baggage-handling contract away from the outsourcing firm Menzies and giving it to a new Alaska Air subsidiary. About 900 baggage handlers will now be unionized under the Machinists and will get better benefits.


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/




The Seattle Times misled you and you keep falling for it. Surely that's not the first time you've been duped.

Let me ask you this: Is an AeroLogic pilot a Lufthhansa or DHL employee? Answer: they are an AeroLogic employee.


Yes they are an AeroLogic employee, just as I have referred to McGee Air Services workers are McGee Air Services employees, not sure what point you are trying to make.

The debate is not employment status or employer, it's whether Alaska Airlines is outsourcing ground handling operations or not.

The very nature of outsourcing, means you are shifting the financial risk/burden of providing a product/service to an outsourcer who you contract and pay for those products/services. When Alaska Airlines fired its ground handling employees and outsourced ground handling to Menzies, it outsourced ground handling, by shifting the financial risk/burden of providing ground handling operation to Menzies.

When Alaska created McGee Air Services, sure, they "outsourced" the work away from Menzies to McGee Air Services, but again, who owns McGee Air Services? Alaska Airlines does, so fine, yes they did "outsource" it. They outsourced it to themselves, since the financial risk/burden still falls on Alaska Airlines as the sole owner of McGee Air Services.

AeroLogic is a joint-venture between DHL and Lufthansa, so Lufthansa is outsourcing some of the risk/financial burden to DHL and vice versa.

Until Alaska decides to completely or partially spin off McGee Air Services, they are not really outsourcing ground handling, sorry.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:33 am

BA wrote:
USTraveler wrote:
BA wrote:

Thank you, this comment is spot on. That is exactly what McGee Air Services is, an internal vendor to Alaska Airlines.

Without Alaska Airlines, there would be no McGee Air Services. McGee Air Services exists to service Alaska Airlines (and potentially other airlines in the future). It's not more complicated than that.

Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that McGee Air Services employees share the same pay and benefits package as Alaska Airlines employees. I never even debated that. The only comment I made about McGee Air Services employees is that they are unionized, backed by the IAM. Unlike employees of Menzies.

Here's an article from the Seattle Times that has a good summary on the background of McGee Air Service taking over ground handling from Menzies:



https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/




The Seattle Times misled you and you keep falling for it. Surely that's not the first time you've been duped.

Let me ask you this: Is an AeroLogic pilot a Lufthhansa or DHL employee? Answer: they are an AeroLogic employee.


Yes they are an AeroLogic employee, just as I have referred to McGee Air Services workers are McGee Air Services employees, not sure what point you are trying to make.

The debate is not employment status or employer, it's whether Alaska Airlines is outsourcing ground handling operations or not.

The very nature of outsourcing, means you are shifting the financial risk/burden of providing a product/service to an outsourcer who you contract and pay for those products/services. When Alaska Airlines fired its ground handling employees and outsourced ground handling to Menzies, it outsourced ground handling, by shifting the financial risk/burden of providing ground handling operation to Menzies.

When Alaska created McGee Air Services, sure, they "outsourced" the work away from Menzies to McGee Air Services, but again, who owns McGee Air Services? Alaska Airlines does, so fine, yes they did "outsource" it. They outsourced it to themselves, since the financial risk/burden still falls on Alaska Airlines as the sole owner of McGee Air Services.

AeroLogic is a joint-venture between DHL and Lufthansa, so Lufthansa is outsourcing some of the risk/financial burden to DHL and vice versa.

Until Alaska decides to completely or partially spin off McGee Air Services, they are not really outsourcing ground handling, sorry.


Haha, well you're slowly getting closer to the truth...
This is a USA based operation. Alaska Airlines. It's not like the other airlines of the world that outsource all ground ops. They (Alaska) are an exception here, as far as major airlines go, excluding frontier and spirit, but anyways--- this is not Europe, thank God, and its not normal here!
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:38 am

USTraveler wrote:
BA wrote:
USTraveler wrote:



The Seattle Times misled you and you keep falling for it. Surely that's not the first time you've been duped.

Let me ask you this: Is an AeroLogic pilot a Lufthhansa or DHL employee? Answer: they are an AeroLogic employee.


Yes they are an AeroLogic employee, just as I have referred to McGee Air Services workers are McGee Air Services employees, not sure what point you are trying to make.

The debate is not employment status or employer, it's whether Alaska Airlines is outsourcing ground handling operations or not.

The very nature of outsourcing, means you are shifting the financial risk/burden of providing a product/service to an outsourcer who you contract and pay for those products/services. When Alaska Airlines fired its ground handling employees and outsourced ground handling to Menzies, it outsourced ground handling, by shifting the financial risk/burden of providing ground handling operation to Menzies.

When Alaska created McGee Air Services, sure, they "outsourced" the work away from Menzies to McGee Air Services, but again, who owns McGee Air Services? Alaska Airlines does, so fine, yes they did "outsource" it. They outsourced it to themselves, since the financial risk/burden still falls on Alaska Airlines as the sole owner of McGee Air Services.

AeroLogic is a joint-venture between DHL and Lufthansa, so Lufthansa is outsourcing some of the risk/financial burden to DHL and vice versa.

Until Alaska decides to completely or partially spin off McGee Air Services, they are not really outsourcing ground handling, sorry.


Haha, well you're slowly getting closer to the truth...
This is a USA based operation. Alaska Airlines. It's not like the other airlines of the world that outsource all ground ops. They (Alaska) are an exception here, as far as major airlines go, excluding frontier and spirit, but anyways--- this is not Europe, thank God, and its not normal here!


Not sure how I am "slowly getting closer to the truth."

Go back to the first page of this thread where I referred to McGee Air Services as a 100% fully owned subsidiary of Alaska Airlines.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:47 am

BA wrote:
USTraveler wrote:
BA wrote:

Thank you, this comment is spot on. That is exactly what McGee Air Services is, an internal vendor to Alaska Airlines.

Without Alaska Airlines, there would be no McGee Air Services. McGee Air Services exists to service Alaska Airlines (and potentially other airlines in the future). It's not more complicated than that.

Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that McGee Air Services employees share the same pay and benefits package as Alaska Airlines employees. I never even debated that. The only comment I made about McGee Air Services employees is that they are unionized, backed by the IAM. Unlike employees of Menzies.

Here's an article from the Seattle Times that has a good summary on the background of McGee Air Service taking over ground handling from Menzies:



https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-upgrade/




The Seattle Times misled you and you keep falling for it. Surely that's not the first time you've been duped.

Let me ask you this: Is an AeroLogic pilot a Lufthhansa or DHL employee? Answer: they are an AeroLogic employee.


Yes they are an AeroLogic employee, just as I have referred to McGee Air Services workers are McGee Air Services employees, not sure what point you are trying to make.

The debate is not employment status or employer, it's whether Alaska Airlines is outsourcing ground handling operations or not.

The very nature of outsourcing, means you are shifting the financial risk/burden of providing a product/service to an outsourcer who you contract and pay for those products/services. When Alaska Airlines fired its ground handling employees and outsourced ground handling to Menzies, it outsourced ground handling, by shifting the financial risk/burden of providing ground handling operation to Menzies.

When Alaska created McGee Air Services, sure, they "outsourced" the work away from Menzies to McGee Air Services, but again, who owns McGee Air Services? Alaska Airlines does, so fine, yes they did "outsource" it. They outsourced it to themselves, since the financial risk/burden still falls on Alaska Airlines as the sole owner of McGee Air Services.

AeroLogic is a joint-venture between DHL and Lufthansa, so Lufthansa is outsourcing some of the risk/financial burden to DHL and vice versa.

Until Alaska decides to completely or partially spin off McGee Air Services, they are not really outsourcing ground handling, sorry.



Look, the USA is the world's largest air travel market by far. So if I fly on American Eagle operating as American Airlines, does that mean the employees are American Airlines employees? They could be employed by Piedmont or Envoy which are both owned by AA. That doesn't mean they work for (technically) AA. Maybe you tell your friends that to create recognition and boast, but it's not factually true. Maybe this is a cultural difference in semantics between you and the rest of us logical thinkers.
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:54 am

USTraveler wrote:
BA wrote:
USTraveler wrote:



The Seattle Times misled you and you keep falling for it. Surely that's not the first time you've been duped.

Let me ask you this: Is an AeroLogic pilot a Lufthhansa or DHL employee? Answer: they are an AeroLogic employee.


Yes they are an AeroLogic employee, just as I have referred to McGee Air Services workers are McGee Air Services employees, not sure what point you are trying to make.

The debate is not employment status or employer, it's whether Alaska Airlines is outsourcing ground handling operations or not.

The very nature of outsourcing, means you are shifting the financial risk/burden of providing a product/service to an outsourcer who you contract and pay for those products/services. When Alaska Airlines fired its ground handling employees and outsourced ground handling to Menzies, it outsourced ground handling, by shifting the financial risk/burden of providing ground handling operation to Menzies.

When Alaska created McGee Air Services, sure, they "outsourced" the work away from Menzies to McGee Air Services, but again, who owns McGee Air Services? Alaska Airlines does, so fine, yes they did "outsource" it. They outsourced it to themselves, since the financial risk/burden still falls on Alaska Airlines as the sole owner of McGee Air Services.

AeroLogic is a joint-venture between DHL and Lufthansa, so Lufthansa is outsourcing some of the risk/financial burden to DHL and vice versa.

Until Alaska decides to completely or partially spin off McGee Air Services, they are not really outsourcing ground handling, sorry.



Look, the USA is the world's largest air travel market by far. So if I fly on American Eagle operating as American Airlines, does that mean the employees are American Airlines employees? They could be employed by Piedmont or Envoy which are both owned by AA. That doesn't mean they work for (technically) AA. Maybe you tell your friends that to create recognition and boast, but it's not factually true. Maybe this is a cultural difference in semantics between you and the rest of us logical thinkers.


This is getting old.

For the hundredth time, I am not debating employer/employee status.

The employees you refer to, are employed by the legal entity that is employing them, that is either Piedmont or Envoy.

Just like McGee Air Services are employees of McGee Air Services, not Alaska Airlines employees.

Nowhere in this thread did I say McGee Air Services employees are employees of Alaska Airlines.

You're arguing with yourself here, hope you're enjoying that.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:56 am

BA wrote:
USTraveler wrote:
BA wrote:

Yes they are an AeroLogic employee, just as I have referred to McGee Air Services workers are McGee Air Services employees, not sure what point you are trying to make.

The debate is not employment status or employer, it's whether Alaska Airlines is outsourcing ground handling operations or not.

The very nature of outsourcing, means you are shifting the financial risk/burden of providing a product/service to an outsourcer who you contract and pay for those products/services. When Alaska Airlines fired its ground handling employees and outsourced ground handling to Menzies, it outsourced ground handling, by shifting the financial risk/burden of providing ground handling operation to Menzies.

When Alaska created McGee Air Services, sure, they "outsourced" the work away from Menzies to McGee Air Services, but again, who owns McGee Air Services? Alaska Airlines does, so fine, yes they did "outsource" it. They outsourced it to themselves, since the financial risk/burden still falls on Alaska Airlines as the sole owner of McGee Air Services.

AeroLogic is a joint-venture between DHL and Lufthansa, so Lufthansa is outsourcing some of the risk/financial burden to DHL and vice versa.

Until Alaska decides to completely or partially spin off McGee Air Services, they are not really outsourcing ground handling, sorry.


Haha, well you're slowly getting closer to the truth...
This is a USA based operation. Alaska Airlines. It's not like the other airlines of the world that outsource all ground ops. They (Alaska) are an exception here, as far as major airlines go, excluding frontier and spirit, but anyways--- this is not Europe, thank God, and its not normal here!


Not sure how I am "slowly getting closer to the truth."

Go back to the first page of this thread where I referred to McGee Air Services as a 100% fully owned subsidiary of Alaska Airlines.



Of course you're not sure... Being gullible to mainstream media is not a virtue nowadays.

If you've had a job in a capitalistic society, I'd recommend looking at your paycheck "stub" to see who is actually paying the bills. If you're outsourced, you're outsourced.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:56 am

This is not complicated do you work for a FAA 121 carrier .. ? Yes or No , you can’t be kind of pregnant it’s yes or no
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:03 am

This is getting old.

--I agree wholeheartedly.

For the hundredth time, I am not debating employer/employee status.

--Actually that's all you've been typing about.

The employees you refer to, are employed by the legal entity that is employing them, that is either Piedmont or Envoy.

Just like McGee Air Services are employees of McGee Air Services, not Alaska Airlines employees.

--So Now you're agreeing with not only me, but the nearly dozen of others of us who are tired of your ignorance.

Nowhere in this thread did I say McGee Air Services employees are employees of Alaska Airlines.

--Yes you did.

You're arguing with yourself here, hope you're enjoying that.\

--No, just with you; because I enjoy ridding bodies of cancerous entities.
 
LabQuest
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:10 am

What are the hourly wages for ground staff?
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:16 am

LabQuest wrote:
What are the hourly wages for ground staff?


At the mainlines it starts low but tops out relatively high, for what it's worth. At the outsourced companies, whether owned by a mainline carrier or not, it'll start maybe a dollar or two an hour more but top out after a few years, typically making it a dead-end career (as designed). However many still make-do and find ways to make a career.
 
USTraveler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:19 am

BA wrote:
USTraveler wrote:
This is getting old.

--I agree wholeheartedly.

For the hundredth time, I am not debating employer/employee status.

--Actually that's all you've been typing about.

The employees you refer to, are employed by the legal entity that is employing them, that is either Piedmont or Envoy.

Just like McGee Air Services are employees of McGee Air Services, not Alaska Airlines employees.

--So Now you're agreeing with not only me, but the nearly dozen of others of us who are tired of your ignorance.

Nowhere in this thread did I say McGee Air Services employees are employees of Alaska Airlines.

--Yes you did.

You're arguing with yourself here, hope you're enjoying that.\

--No, just with you; because I enjoy ridding bodies of cancerous entities.


Find a quote by me in this thread where I referred to McGee Air Services employees as employees of Alaska Airlines.

I'm a cancerous entity, huh?

It says a lot about you when you resort to nasty personal attacks. Especially when you're not making any sense and can't defend your accusations of others.


How many times did you say that McGee employees are not outsourced!?
 
KFTG
Posts: 810
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:31 am

BA wrote:
DDR wrote:
Did not AS outsource ground handling at SEA?


No, they have their own ground handling subsidiary.

https://www.mcgeeairservices.com/

So they "B-scaled" them. Got it.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4805
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:34 am

AS has their own rampers in the state of Alaska so benefits should be really easy to compare.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1480
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:03 am

The CBA for AS rampers is here: https://atd142.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 2-2018.pdf

You can read the McGee Air Services one at this link: http://www.iam720.org/uploads/7/9/9/3/7 ... ee_cba.pdf
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:05 pm

When I was in Seattle last month,there are help wanted signs everywhere …..
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7776
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:26 pm

The problem with this thread isn't whether McGee employees are ALK employees are not; it's the statement that McGee employees aren't paid enough to show up reliably and maintain productivity in the rain. (Lots of cities across the country have seen 3+ inches of rain in a 24-hour period. It's not a Biblical catastrophe.) Good people persevere and succeed in difficult circumstances. Those who don't may be called 'losers.' McGee is responsible for the quality of people it hires and the gear it gives them.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:41 pm

USTraveler wrote:
How does the McGee benefits package compare to the in-house Customer Service ops benefits? At United it's exactly the same between ramp and customer service. McGee does gets some flight benefits but how do they compare to Main-Line employees? And don't just regurgitate what you saw on McGee's 'now hiring' website.

By the way *BA, there is a difference between Main-Line employees and vendors/contractors, no matter who owns them.


but its changing at UA. With their subsidiary UGE, it will eventually begin to replace UA employees in the outstations.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:30 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
At least one bag belt broke at SEA, coupled with high levels of absenteeism among rampers. This caused a cascade effect where aircraft waiting for or unloading bags took longer, meaning they pushed late, and inbounds had to hold short of the gate at an already gate-constrained operation. It was a really awful day operationally, but the system has recovered.


Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?
 
alasizon
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:07 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
From the internet:

Flight benifits started after 30 days of employement. You can use them as much as you want when you are not working. Keep in mind you only get on the plane if there are opens seats and McGee people are at the very bottom of the standby list. That being said I got to go everywhere I wanted.


I assume this is ONLY on Alaska Air. And from above I take it they are lower priority over Alaska Air employees on standby. So yeah this is a cheap sad out source job. I'd be furious if I had to do that hard job and not even get the same priority as other employees in my supposed Airline.

I imagine they fly on the lowest priority level just like the other wholly owned ones did(AMR=AA, DGS=DL, etc). Horizon employees will get on before they do.


Wholly owneds at AA fly at the same priority as Mainline employees, all based on check-in time. They receive the exact same travel benefits.

airlinepeanuts wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
At least one bag belt broke at SEA, coupled with high levels of absenteeism among rampers. This caused a cascade effect where aircraft waiting for or unloading bags took longer, meaning they pushed late, and inbounds had to hold short of the gate at an already gate-constrained operation. It was a really awful day operationally, but the system has recovered.


Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


His post is strictly facts about what happened at SEA without adding in a whole bunch of opinion about McGee. The reason for the bad operation was the high level of absenteeism coupled with a belt failure. That isn't the same as drinking the Kool Aid and saying that everything was rosy and that McGee is perfect.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
reltney
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:20 pm

Well, I always fly Delta out of SEA..... works every time...
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:28 pm

I don't blame them for calling out. Why have loyalty to a company that treats you like a 4th class citizen in the air group? (travel at lower priority than everyone else in the group).

Whats the worse they can do? Fire you from a crappy low paying job with bad benefits?? lol. I'd laugh at all the "help wanted" signs plastered all over the walls on the way out.
 
metaldirtnskin
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:01 pm

I got a few posts into that absurd playground fight and gave up. I'm not going back and reading all that foolishness.

Regardless, the SEA garbage fire has been getting worse for at least all of 2019. The last time I complained to AS about yet another connection screwup, they blithely suggested I try connecting through PDX next time. Meanwhile, over on the OAG thread I notice that AS has cut one of their daily PDX runs from my home airport. So that's how that's going. So long and thanks for all the fish, AS.
 
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B727skyguy
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:01 pm

F9Animal wrote:
As for the weather? It was garbage the last few days. Just walking up 7 steps from my door to my car, I was soaked. We got record rainfall, so it was not your typical light drizzle Seattle is known for. For $15 an hour, I too would rather sit back behind a warm fire and use a sick day.

Here is how I view it. They are contract workers, and have no real ownership in the company. I too would not hesitate to call out sick in those weather conditions if I was just a contract worker. Now, if I was an actual airline worker and was considered part of the team that helps Alaska achieve success, I would have likely swam to work.

There's something called a work ethic. When I worked at regional airlines (doing both the above wing and below wing jobs in all kinds of weather conditions including below zero temperatures), I was making minimum wage ($5 an hour). Nevertheless, I was hired to do a job, and I did it. I would not dream of calling in sick when I was not actually sick. That's a great way to get fired from any job.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1802
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:09 am

LOL. Too good!

airlinepeanuts wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
At least one bag belt broke at SEA, coupled with high levels of absenteeism among rampers. This caused a cascade effect where aircraft waiting for or unloading bags took longer, meaning they pushed late, and inbounds had to hold short of the gate at an already gate-constrained operation. It was a really awful day operationally, but the system has recovered.


Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:42 am

alasizon wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
From the internet:



I assume this is ONLY on Alaska Air. And from above I take it they are lower priority over Alaska Air employees on standby. So yeah this is a cheap sad out source job. I'd be furious if I had to do that hard job and not even get the same priority as other employees in my supposed Airline.

I imagine they fly on the lowest priority level just like the other wholly owned ones did(AMR=AA, DGS=DL, etc). Horizon employees will get on before they do.


Wholly owneds at AA fly at the same priority as Mainline employees, all based on check-in time. They receive the exact same travel benefits.

airlinepeanuts wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
At least one bag belt broke at SEA, coupled with high levels of absenteeism among rampers. This caused a cascade effect where aircraft waiting for or unloading bags took longer, meaning they pushed late, and inbounds had to hold short of the gate at an already gate-constrained operation. It was a really awful day operationally, but the system has recovered.


Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


His post is strictly facts about what happened at SEA without adding in a whole bunch of opinion about McGee. The reason for the bad operation was the high level of absenteeism coupled with a belt failure. That isn't the same as drinking the Kool Aid and saying that everything was rosy and that McGee is perfect.


I don’t buy the belt failing argument. Belts fail all the time at Seatac as an outdated system is inundated with volume it wasn’t built for.

The FACTS are that McGee had high call outs. Did any other vendors or airlines at Seatac? Why?
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:04 am

airlinepeanuts wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I imagine they fly on the lowest priority level just like the other wholly owned ones did(AMR=AA, DGS=DL, etc). Horizon employees will get on before they do.


Wholly owneds at AA fly at the same priority as Mainline employees, all based on check-in time. They receive the exact same travel benefits.

airlinepeanuts wrote:

Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


His post is strictly facts about what happened at SEA without adding in a whole bunch of opinion about McGee. The reason for the bad operation was the high level of absenteeism coupled with a belt failure. That isn't the same as drinking the Kool Aid and saying that everything was rosy and that McGee is perfect.


I don’t buy the belt failing argument. Belts fail all the time at Seatac as an outdated system is inundated with volume it wasn’t built for.

The FACTS are that McGee had high call outs. Did any other vendors or airlines at Seatac? Why?


Do you work for McGee? How do you know it's a bad place to work? What makes it so much worse than Alaska as a Customer Service Agent? They get mando'd every summer and every holiday too. Why do people take jobs for a wage that they don't feel is fair for a job with benefits they aren't happy with. Apparently there are "Help Wanted" signs everywhere, it's not like McGee is the only place to work...
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 873
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:16 am

The relationship between employee and employer has to be equitable. Apparently Corporate feels compensation and working conditions are just fine because people keep applying for the jobs. (Although, the high employee turn over rate and high call out rate during inclement weather says otherwise.) AAG needs to take care of their frontline employees (including subcontractors) and in return they will take care of them. It's that simple.

As a long time flyer of Alaska and someone who gets a chocolate bar each flight -- I hope they can sort out Seattle -- I said before the place is a mess. Friday was a complete melt down -- but just about every other day is a hot mess too.
 
GatorClark
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:34 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:21 am

HPRamper wrote:
They can't keep enough handlers working. It's not easy work and they are perpetually understaffed. I'd be tempted to call in on a rainy day too, if I knew I'd have only 3 people on my crew trying to quick turn 737-800s.


I literally have to do that daily with a 757.. Rain or shine. We get 3 people to quick turn a late arriving 757-200 with 180-210 bags off, 190-220 bags on. 2 guys go in the bin and the ALA (Lead) stays on the ground. Occasionally they'll throw us one guy to run bags to claim while the ALA hooks up the towbar/tug, power, & air and runs gate claims up the jetway. We're basically told to deal with it because our station manager refuses to hire more people.
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:25 am

I am not surprised, these issues go beyond SEA.

At SFO, since switching from Menzies to McGee, there have been huge, huge problems. I've seen planes hold an hour waiting for ground crew with an open hardstand gate(due to sick calls in bad weather) and Sun Country, who is handled by McGee, hold 90 minutes for an open gate because McGee didn't have the staffing to send anybody to the other side of the field to meet that flight. Nothing like 90 minutes tacked on to your HNL-SFO flight sitting in front of an open gate blocking Frontier and Cathay Pacific from getting where they need to go.

Pre-merger, VX and AS were great companies, some of the best operations at SFO. Post-merger, it is a royal mess. Go on flightradar24 almost any bad weather day at the end of the night when the RONs come in and you're likely to see runway 01L shut down so Alaska planes with no gates can sit there for an hour or better waiting. What a mess.

Now, I was a ramper for several years for SkyWest at SFO. Our MST(minimum station turn) times were 16 minutes for EMB-120s, 18 for CRJ-200s, and just over 20 for CRJ-700s. We usually had 2-3 rampers per every TWO gates, so we had to bust our asses in the rain, with the delays resulting in almost no break between flights all day. But it was our job, and we did it, soaking socks and numb hands be damned. And we only made $10.80-12ish per hour, now these guys at McGee are getting paid a minimum of $17.50/hr(usually more) at SFO and still drag their feet, don't meet planes, and the company can never hired enough people.

If you're a ramper and you call in sick when the weather is bad, get a new line of work. You don't deserve the benefits. And seeing s McGee DOES provide flight benefits where as Swissport and most other 3rd party vendors do not at SFO, yet McGee has a hard time staffing and a horrible operation. Explain that? My theory is they're so afraid to lose people to airlines, that they don't punish employees for performance. Everytime I'd call their managers yelling at them for the circus show, it would be the same old "The weather is bad so people call in sick\we can't hire enough people\we can't enforce anything, ect". Um, this is one of the largest airlines in the US we're talking about and their 3rd largest hub, right?
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4414
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:48 am

B727skyguy wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
As for the weather? It was garbage the last few days. Just walking up 7 steps from my door to my car, I was soaked. We got record rainfall, so it was not your typical light drizzle Seattle is known for. For $15 an hour, I too would rather sit back behind a warm fire and use a sick day.

Here is how I view it. They are contract workers, and have no real ownership in the company. I too would not hesitate to call out sick in those weather conditions if I was just a contract worker. Now, if I was an actual airline worker and was considered part of the team that helps Alaska achieve success, I would have likely swam to work.

There's something called a work ethic. When I worked at regional airlines (doing both the above wing and below wing jobs in all kinds of weather conditions including below zero temperatures), I was making minimum wage ($5 an hour). Nevertheless, I was hired to do a job, and I did it. I would not dream of calling in sick when I was not actually sick. That's a great way to get fired from any job.


It's 2019, and a much much different work ethic out there. You still worked for the actual airline, right? These cheap vendors are like working for a third world country.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4414
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:01 am

McGee is another DGS. Alaska could sell it off tomorrow if it wanted to. I was looking at their contract. Wow!!! Anyone see the health insurance for a family?!! They are literally suggesting workers apply for welfare type of assistance.

The only attractive benefit I see is flight benefits. But let's get real. I can fly SEA to LAS for $30 each way and be guaranteed a seat. $15 an hour is chump change in Seattle these days. No wonder they have such a difficult time finding workers. One could get a job at McDonalds and make the same pay, but get free meals.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:04 am

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


Newsflash: CSAs and Reservations Agents were mando'd per the CBA as well. With the blessing of the IAM General Chair, I might add, as she knows that everyone has to pitch during times where the operation goes sideways.

So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4805
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:37 am

EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


Newsflash: CSAs and Reservations Agents were mando'd per the CBA as well. With the blessing of the IAM General Chair, I might add, as she knows that everyone has to pitch during times where the operation goes sideways.

So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?

I think everyone is saying the McGee people likely get paid less than AS employees for doing the same work.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:38 am

EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


Newsflash: CSAs and Reservations Agents were mando'd per the CBA as well. With the blessing of the IAM General Chair, I might add, as she knows that everyone has to pitch during times where the operation goes sideways.

So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?


Higher non-rev priority, better health and dental, better PBP pay to name a few....

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