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Lootess
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:49 am

The fact all baggage at AS is by McGee or Menzies tells you a whole lot about how they view things.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:42 am

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Higher non-rev priority, better health and dental, better PBP pay to name a few....


Nope, you specifically cited mandatory OT as being what made it a bad place to work. Now you’re backtracking when learning it happens elsewhere?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:03 pm

GatorClark wrote:
I literally have to do that daily with a 757.. Rain or shine. We get 3 people to quick turn a late arriving 757-200 with 180-210 bags off, 190-220 bags on. 2 guys go in the bin and the ALA (Lead) stays on the ground. Occasionally they'll throw us one guy to run bags to claim while the ALA hooks up the towbar/tug, power, & air and runs gate claims up the jetway. We're basically told to deal with it because our station manager refuses to hire more people.


As long as everyone keeps “making it work,” I wouldn’t expect that to change.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
kiowa
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:06 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
McGee is outsourced work. AAG just happens to own the vendor. Alaska Air Lines (also a subsidiary of AAG) does not own McGee.

I have no sympathy for airlines when their vendors crap the bed, owned or not. You get what you pay for.


Well spoken / written.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:35 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Higher non-rev priority, better health and dental, better PBP pay to name a few....


Nope, you specifically cited mandatory OT as being what made it a bad place to work. Now you’re backtracking when learning it happens elsewhere?


So you’re going to just ignore my answer to your question and say because I said it’s a bad place to work AND people don’t like being mandatory OT’d?
 
sxf24
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:54 pm

32andBelow wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Did you get injected with the Alaska kool-aid? Why can’t it be that McGee is just a bad place to work and people were tired of being forced to stay and be “mando’d?” Alaska is a good place to work, Horizon too but not McGee. Can you just not take the company line once?


Newsflash: CSAs and Reservations Agents were mando'd per the CBA as well. With the blessing of the IAM General Chair, I might add, as she knows that everyone has to pitch during times where the operation goes sideways.

So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?

I think everyone is saying the McGee people likely get paid less than AS employees for doing the same work.


There are no comparables, so it is tough to make that point.
 
T5towbar
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Mandatory OT in this business is a fact of life in this business. You know this going into the job that you don't own your life when you first start this job. You are needed whenever your schedule calls you to be there. Mandatory is usually based on seniority (since this is a Union shop) as well - like everything else in this business - unless there is a major situation like extreme IRROPS and bad weather, and all hands on deck are needed. That's why most mainline carriers have a PM (afternoon - evening) premium (the hourly rate averages an additional 50 to 60 cents per hour more), because those employees who work the swing shift still have to do the last bank; the RON's; and close out and get things ready for the AM shift. I guess the IAM was needed because of the "carve out" in wages at the airport, and some sort of protection from a vendor losing/changing a contract from a larger carrier and "resetting" the wages of the staff when a new contractor comes in. That has happened in a lot of instances causing a lot of turnover and instability with the vendor.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
jakeroberts212
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:06 pm

T5towbar wrote:
Mandatory OT in this business is a fact of life in this business. You know this going into the job that you don't own your life when you first start this job. You are needed whenever your schedule calls you to be there. Mandatory is usually based on seniority (since this is a Union shop) as well - like everything else in this business - unless there is a major situation like extreme IRROPS and bad weather, and all hands on deck are needed. That's why most mainline carriers have a PM (afternoon - evening) premium (the hourly rate averages an additional 50 to 60 cents per hour more), because those employees who work the swing shift still have to do the last bank; the RON's; and close out and get things ready for the AM shift. I guess the IAM was needed because of the "carve out" in wages at the airport, and some sort of protection from a vendor losing/changing a contract from a larger carrier and "resetting" the wages of the staff when a new contractor comes in. That has happened in a lot of instances causing a lot of turnover and instability with the vendor.


Good lord did you need to repeat the phrase "in this business" three separate times in one paragraph? The first sentence alone you repeated it twice. I understand this isn't English class, but if you want people to take your posts seriously you need to at least present it in an educated manner. (rant over)
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:22 pm

Relevant to all of this is flu is hitting the Washington State early this year. We are seeing infections at levels normally seen two months later. This years vaccine is not all that effective against the particular strain peaking (hope) right now. But the vaccine likely reduces the severity of the flu. If you are a little bit sick, but the weather is good, and air traffic is not heavy (and you won't be hit with mandatory overtime) you are more likely to report in for work. It should be legitimate for a somewhat sick person to say that they are good for 6 hours, but not 12.
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CobaltScar
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:39 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?



do they even get ZED fares?
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4438
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:42 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Relevant to all of this is flu is hitting the Washington State early this year. We are seeing infections at levels normally seen two months later. This years vaccine is not all that effective against the particular strain peaking (hope) right now. But the vaccine likely reduces the severity of the flu. If you are a little bit sick, but the weather is good, and air traffic is not heavy (and you won't be hit with mandatory overtime) you are more likely to report in for work. It should be legitimate for a somewhat sick person to say that they are good for 6 hours, but not 12.


I never even considered the flu! And yes, it's hitting like wildfire around Seattle. I got it a few weeks ago, and almost every coworker I have got it. I couldn't even get out of bed when I got it. It very well could be the case.

Anyways, I hope things get better for Alaska with McGee. One thing they need to do is sweeten the pot a little more to attract good applicants.

Those saying there are plenty of jobs out there, you are absolutely correct! Which might be a part of this problem. Apparently McGee is having a very difficult time finding workers. They also have a difficult time retaining employees, as well.... The job is not easy.

At this point, they are attracting candidates that are fly by nighters so to speak. This isn't just an AS problem either.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:55 pm

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

Newsflash: CSAs and Reservations Agents were mando'd per the CBA as well. With the blessing of the IAM General Chair, I might add, as she knows that everyone has to pitch during times where the operation goes sideways.

So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?

I think everyone is saying the McGee people likely get paid less than AS employees for doing the same work.


There are no comparables, so it is tough to make that point.

How are their no comparables? AS still has rampers at ANC and FAI and every outstation in Alaska.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:17 pm

NWAESC wrote:
GatorClark wrote:
I literally have to do that daily with a 757.. Rain or shine. We get 3 people to quick turn a late arriving 757-200 with 180-210 bags off, 190-220 bags on. 2 guys go in the bin and the ALA (Lead) stays on the ground. Occasionally they'll throw us one guy to run bags to claim while the ALA hooks up the towbar/tug, power, & air and runs gate claims up the jetway. We're basically told to deal with it because our station manager refuses to hire more people.


As long as everyone keeps “making it work,” I wouldn’t expect that to change.


This. :checkmark:

When an operation is set up to run normally on the bare minimum, and perhaps require employees to go above and beyond to make a broken system barely limp along, the slightest irregularity (broken belt, bad weather, higher rate of call-outs etc) will eventually bring the operation to its knees. If it’s broken, it has to fail eventually before anything to change.

Let’s take the 3 agent 757 quick turn scenario above. Staffing is short, whether due to sick calls or maybe management to save on overtime doesn’t fill every line. They find areas to pull agents from and one of those three agents are pulled to do another flight. Now you’re working with two. Throw in a bag belt going down in the bag room and bags are showing up last minute and now two of you have to bust your ass to load that plane. Do that and right behind it is another plane. Now you’re going on back to back to back and you don’t get a lunch. Finally finish your shift and before you punch out, now you’re mando’d to stay. All of this in terrible weather. Yeah it’s the nature of the job. Yeah Union/work rules might give you options but at some point both you and the operation will hit a breaking point.

My point is it isn’t always about pay. It isn’t always about work ethic. Sometimes it’s just a really poorly managed operation.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sxf24
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:50 am

32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I think everyone is saying the McGee people likely get paid less than AS employees for doing the same work.


There are no comparables, so it is tough to make that point.

How are their no comparables? AS still has rampers at ANC and FAI and every outstation in Alaska.


Is that really comparable?
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4438
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:45 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
GatorClark wrote:
I literally have to do that daily with a 757.. Rain or shine. We get 3 people to quick turn a late arriving 757-200 with 180-210 bags off, 190-220 bags on. 2 guys go in the bin and the ALA (Lead) stays on the ground. Occasionally they'll throw us one guy to run bags to claim while the ALA hooks up the towbar/tug, power, & air and runs gate claims up the jetway. We're basically told to deal with it because our station manager refuses to hire more people.


As long as everyone keeps “making it work,” I wouldn’t expect that to change.


This. :checkmark:

When an operation is set up to run normally on the bare minimum, and perhaps require employees to go above and beyond to make a broken system barely limp along, the slightest irregularity (broken belt, bad weather, higher rate of call-outs etc) will eventually bring the operation to its knees. If it’s broken, it has to fail eventually before anything to change.

Let’s take the 3 agent 757 quick turn scenario above. Staffing is short, whether due to sick calls or maybe management to save on overtime doesn’t fill every line. They find areas to pull agents from and one of those three agents are pulled to do another flight. Now you’re working with two. Throw in a bag belt going down in the bag room and bags are showing up last minute and now two of you have to bust your ass to load that plane. Do that and right behind it is another plane. Now you’re going on back to back to back and you don’t get a lunch. Finally finish your shift and before you punch out, now you’re mando’d to stay. All of this in terrible weather. Yeah it’s the nature of the job. Yeah Union/work rules might give you options but at some point both you and the operation will hit a breaking point.

My point is it isn’t always about pay. It isn’t always about work ethic. Sometimes it’s just a really poorly managed operation.


Silver1, you are beyond correct. God those were the worst days ever. I would literally bang my head when it became something that happened several times a week. Knowing I was driving in for punishment, I played roulette with my phone. I would literally stop before approaching the employee parking lot, thinking today I should use a sick day.

Look, we know there will be rough days no matter what. But, you are beyond right that if it's a poorly managed operation, and these rough days become a daily thing.... It tears morale, muscles, and the body down. And let's not forget the insane amount of freight Alaska hauls. Those fish boxes are no joke. Alaska was one of the most insane ramps I had ever worked before. It was astonishing how heavy things were.
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32andBelow
Posts: 5008
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:42 am

sxf24 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

There are no comparables, so it is tough to make that point.

How are their no comparables? AS still has rampers at ANC and FAI and every outstation in Alaska.


Is that really comparable?

Why not? It’s the same exact job. SEATTLE is more expensive to live in than anchorage. So who makes more in total comp?
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:05 am

CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
So, how is it that McGee isn't a good place to work because they sometimes rely on mandatory OT, but AS and QX - who do the same thing - are good places to work?



do they even get ZED fares?


No, but they get free AS/QX space-available travel. Something the caterers, fuelers, skycaps, and other vendor employees don’t get. Not sure I understand why a McGee employee not getting ZED is an issue though.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
B757Forever
Posts: 887
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:07 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
GatorClark wrote:
I literally have to do that daily with a 757.. Rain or shine. We get 3 people to quick turn a late arriving 757-200 with 180-210 bags off, 190-220 bags on. 2 guys go in the bin and the ALA (Lead) stays on the ground. Occasionally they'll throw us one guy to run bags to claim while the ALA hooks up the towbar/tug, power, & air and runs gate claims up the jetway. We're basically told to deal with it because our station manager refuses to hire more people.


As long as everyone keeps “making it work,” I wouldn’t expect that to change.


This. :checkmark:

When an operation is set up to run normally on the bare minimum, and perhaps require employees to go above and beyond to make a broken system barely limp along, the slightest irregularity (broken belt, bad weather, higher rate of call-outs etc) will eventually bring the operation to its knees. If it’s broken, it has to fail eventually before anything to change.

Let’s take the 3 agent 757 quick turn scenario above. Staffing is short, whether due to sick calls or maybe management to save on overtime doesn’t fill every line. They find areas to pull agents from and one of those three agents are pulled to do another flight. Now you’re working with two. Throw in a bag belt going down in the bag room and bags are showing up last minute and now two of you have to bust your ass to load that plane. Do that and right behind it is another plane. Now you’re going on back to back to back and you don’t get a lunch. Finally finish your shift and before you punch out, now you’re mando’d to stay. All of this in terrible weather. Yeah it’s the nature of the job. Yeah Union/work rules might give you options but at some point both you and the operation will hit a breaking point.

My point is it isn’t always about pay. It isn’t always about work ethic. Sometimes it’s just a really poorly managed operation.


Exactly! Most employees willingly put forth extra effort for the occasional IROP, holiday season, etc. But when an operation is in constant chaos due to poor management, it quickly erodes the esprit de corps. Employees know that there are times they need to run. They also know if they're going to run, there has to be a finish line in sight.
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N292UX
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:24 pm

Just out of curiosity how many daily departures does AS from SEA? I'd guess around ~200?
 
alasizon
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Re: Alaska meltdown at SEA

Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:56 pm

N292UX wrote:
Just out of curiosity how many daily departures does AS from SEA? I'd guess around ~200?


According to the network page the group as a whole operates 307 average daily flights. I'd estimate that probably about 100-120 per day are on OO and QX so about 200 sounds right. Given it was holiday peak I would guess it may push overall number up to around 325ish.

Source: https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/network
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