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CDGIAD
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:26 pm

Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:30 pm

From the article in this tweet, it seems that LH will terminate Low cost long haul by Eurowings and replace it with another brand.

https://twitter.com/RunwayGirl/status/1 ... 06624?s=19

If true, I say good riddance of that brand!

It's already been rumored in the spring that LH would take over all EW long haul flights, but LH denied this and said it was a mistake in translating German to English, and that LH would only take over commercial and planning activities.

EW long haul is such a mess, you can book EW flights on both EW and LH websites, but when booking on LH it's not clear that you're getting a service not up to LH (alreday poor) level.
EW flies out of FRA and MUC when they shouldn't have to begin with, and even competes with LH like on MUC-BKK.
 
Blerg
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:59 pm

Wonderful. If there is anything Lufthansa doesn't need is yet another brand. Don't know who is suffering more at the moment, Eurowings or Austrian Airlines. LH Group needs to pull its act together.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:14 pm

Let's hope this shythe blah-like non-brand that eurowings is gets relegated to history books.
 
runway23
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:15 pm

LH Group has a very weird way of managing brands and products. Essentially if you look at it they could easily get rid of the EW brand and bring everything under LH, keeping different contracts/AOCs if they really wanted to keep costs at a minimum.

It seems weird that for example LH Group have two very different strategies for their key national markets:

Germany:
-LH only in FRA/MUC
-EW in other markets
- + this potential new brand for longhaul for leisure ?

Switzerland:
-LX in ZRH which is full service for short-haul flights
-LX in GVA which is no frills for short-haul flights but with a premium business cabin
-Edelweiss for short/long-haul leisure from ZRH.

The most logical step would probably be to stick everything in Germany under the LH brand and operate everything which doesn't touch MUC/FRA in the same way LX operates GVA. EW is by no means a real low-cost carrier or one offering any value, it's just a brand that was put in place because LH unions wouldn't agree to something that would give LH Group the flexibility to lower costs outside the two hub cities.
 
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PM
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:20 pm

:stirthepot: Perhaps LH will buy JOON...
 
Blerg
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:22 pm

Does it even make sense to have EW? As in to even have an LCC branch?Why don't they just focus on their main hubs and leave the rest to others since they obviously can't do it efficiently.

I am sure LH could profitably operate a mini base in DUS with its own brand.
 
runway23
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:31 pm

Blerg wrote:
Does it even make sense to have EW? As in to even have an LCC branch?Why don't they just focus on their main hubs and leave the rest to others since they obviously can't do it efficiently.

I am sure LH could profitably operate a mini base in DUS with its own brand.


Well others would essentially be Ryanair who (except for easyJet at Berlin) are the only airline/group who manages to have some scale in Germany if you put the LH group aside and consider that Condor isn't competing directly against either.

LH really need to focus on all airports where LH/EW have bases in Germany. That said, the EW brand makes little sense - it is essentially very similar to just running a bare bones LH. The LH brand has a lot more goodwill/equity that EW and LX in GVA has proved that in secondary markets people don't really care about the premium brand not serving a sandwich on light fares.

The main problem is bringing everything together seems to be the unions.
 
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dangerhere
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:33 pm

PM wrote:
:stirthepot: Perhaps LH will buy JOON...



And perhaps brand it as Joon Go/Play/Now/Be/Cum ect by Lufthansa
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:37 pm

CDGIAD wrote:
but when booking on LH it's not clear that you're getting a service not up to LH (alreday poor) level.


LOL, time to have a look at the market. I flew EI DUB-YYZ yesterday. On a 7-hour flight there was ONE cold drink service, thirty minutes after takeoff, booze was billed, and after that two coffee / tea services. They looked at me like I was being completely unreasonable when I asked for a Coke more than 2 hours before landing, "That stuff is already put away."

The guy came back and said sorry but you know we can't do everything for everyone, I guess assuming I was a rare flyer and he could get away with it. Told him Merry Christmas but I'm not an idiot. Even piss-poor-bottom-bin AC service TATL has 2 bar cart passes minimum. BA has four. And no this isn't a booze rant - I was only looking for ginger ale as I don't enjoy drinking horrible quality diuretics made with swamp water in a bone-dry tube.

The 330 was falling apart at the seams as well.

I'd have taken LH in a heartbeat.

I will say that EI's ground staff was spectacular however, especially with my temporarily-wheelchair-bound ass.
 
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yowza
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:07 pm

dangerhere wrote:
PM wrote:
:stirthepot: Perhaps LH will buy JOON...

And perhaps brand it as (...) Cum


What? ;)
 
runway23
Posts: 2334
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:17 pm

dangerhere wrote:
PM wrote:
:stirthepot: Perhaps LH will buy JOON...



And perhaps brand it as Joon Go/Play/Now/Be/Cum ect by Lufthansa


You missed SHOT, which would brand perfectly as sHOT if you translate the Hot part in German.
 
SexyAdonis
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:21 am

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:05 pm

CDGIAD wrote:
From the article in this tweet, it seems that LH will terminate Low cost long haul by Eurowings and replace it with another brand.

https://twitter.com/RunwayGirl/status/1 ... 06624?s=19

If true, I say good riddance of that brand!

It's already been rumored in the spring that LH would take over all EW long haul flights, but LH denied this and said it was a mistake in translating German to English, and that LH would only take over commercial and planning activities.

EW long haul is such a mess, you can book EW flights on both EW and LH websites, but when booking on LH it's not clear that you're getting a service not up to LH (alreday poor) level.
EW flies out of FRA and MUC when they shouldn't have to begin with, and even competes with LH like on MUC-BKK.


Wasn’t Lufthansa in “talks” to potentially buy again Condor? It would be nice to have the Condor brand back in the group. It is a brand with a very rich history in Germany and well positioned to take on the leisure markets for the Lufthansa Group.

Sexy Adonis
 
EChid
Posts: 567
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:18 pm

SexyAdonis wrote:
CDGIAD wrote:
From the article in this tweet, it seems that LH will terminate Low cost long haul by Eurowings and replace it with another brand.

https://twitter.com/RunwayGirl/status/1 ... 06624?s=19

If true, I say good riddance of that brand!

It's already been rumored in the spring that LH would take over all EW long haul flights, but LH denied this and said it was a mistake in translating German to English, and that LH would only take over commercial and planning activities.

EW long haul is such a mess, you can book EW flights on both EW and LH websites, but when booking on LH it's not clear that you're getting a service not up to LH (alreday poor) level.
EW flies out of FRA and MUC when they shouldn't have to begin with, and even competes with LH like on MUC-BKK.


Wasn’t Lufthansa in “talks” to potentially buy again Condor? It would be nice to have the Condor brand back in the group. It is a brand with a very rich history in Germany and well positioned to take on the leisure markets for the Lufthansa Group.

Sexy Adonis

I hope not. LH shouldn't be allowed to buy them back. There's already a dire lack of competition in the German long-haul market.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7762
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:20 pm

This isn't just a branding exercise, is it? It's entirely another operating carrier - different work groups, work rules, etc.?
 
CDGIAD
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:23 pm

Seems like there's not a lot of love for EW...

What I wonder is if this article is accurate regarding the disappearance of EW long haul.

I'd love for someone familiar with the LH group to enlighten us.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:30 pm

runway23 wrote:
dangerhere wrote:
PM wrote:
:stirthepot: Perhaps LH will buy JOON...



And perhaps brand it as Joon Go/Play/Now/Be/Cum ect by Lufthansa


You missed SHOT, which would brand perfectly as sHOT if you translate the Hot part in German.


But then LH should buy into this for the full sHOT experience... ultra dense 737-8200 no service (for free) and even 2€ to go for a sHOT.

Geiz ist Geil, flieg sHOT.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:58 am

Hahaha, I have a good laugh reading this thread! You guys are so funny......"Cum", what in the world.....Lol

I think EW was screwed up badly by LH Group management. Some departure from usual effective and efficent way how Germans work,. They could have just maintain two service lines:
> Mainline premium short to long haul services by Lufthansa
> Budget short to long haul services by Eurowings.

Retire Germanwings and get rid of Eurowings Europe, SunExpress Deutschland, Lufthansa Cityline and whatever.....Their long haul was a disaster to begin with, one aircraft, seven destinations?? Not a very smart idea. I am very surprised to see LHGroup kept sinking in money when the boat was clearly sinking. From profit of €38 million in 2015 to loss of €231 million in 2018!! O.o
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
Magnolia
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:50 pm

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:44 am

juliuswong wrote:
Their long haul was a disaster to begin with, one aircraft, seven destinations?? Not a very smart idea.

Can you elaborate on this more?
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:53 am

Magnolia wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Their long haul was a disaster to begin with, one aircraft, seven destinations?? Not a very smart idea.

Can you elaborate on this more?

There is an article in German on this https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/bilanz-v ... _id=341073

You may Google translate it.

Further reading on their disastrous starting of long haul. https://www.aerotelegraph.com/chronik-d ... spaetungen (also in German)
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
fraT
Posts: 1174
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:38 am

EChid wrote:
SexyAdonis wrote:
CDGIAD wrote:
From the article in this tweet, it seems that LH will terminate Low cost long haul by Eurowings and replace it with another brand.

https://twitter.com/RunwayGirl/status/1 ... 06624?s=19

If true, I say good riddance of that brand!

It's already been rumored in the spring that LH would take over all EW long haul flights, but LH denied this and said it was a mistake in translating German to English, and that LH would only take over commercial and planning activities.

EW long haul is such a mess, you can book EW flights on both EW and LH websites, but when booking on LH it's not clear that you're getting a service not up to LH (alreday poor) level.
EW flies out of FRA and MUC when they shouldn't have to begin with, and even competes with LH like on MUC-BKK.


Wasn’t Lufthansa in “talks” to potentially buy again Condor? It would be nice to have the Condor brand back in the group. It is a brand with a very rich history in Germany and well positioned to take on the leisure markets for the Lufthansa Group.

Sexy Adonis

I hope not. LH shouldn't be allowed to buy them back. There's already a dire lack of competition in the German long-haul market.


That is an interesting statement with basically every major airline (QF and NZ being the longhaul exceptions) flying to FRA, most as well to MUC and some to DUS/HAM/TXL. So there might be limited German competition since AB went belly-up but for sure there is no lack of competition from foreign carriers.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:54 am

CDGIAD wrote:
Seems like there's not a lot of love for EW...

What I wonder is if this article is accurate regarding the disappearance of EW long haul.

I'd love for someone familiar with the LH group to enlighten us.


It is true, it will be a different brand. What the brand will be, I can not tell you.

juliuswong wrote:
Hahaha, I have a good laugh reading this thread! You guys are so funny......"Cum", what in the world.....Lol

I think EW was screwed up badly by LH Group management. Some departure from usual effective and efficent way how Germans work,. They could have just maintain two service lines:
> Mainline premium short to long haul services by Lufthansa
> Budget short to long haul services by Eurowings.

Retire Germanwings and get rid of Eurowings Europe, SunExpress Deutschland, Lufthansa Cityline and whatever.....Their long haul was a disaster to begin with, one aircraft, seven destinations?? Not a very smart idea. I am very surprised to see LHGroup kept sinking in money when the boat was clearly sinking. From profit of €38 million in 2015 to loss of €231 million in 2018!! O.o


It was a necessity to keep the competition out. The gap left by Air Berlin had to be filled and there was no time to build an optimized operation from scratch, so one used what was available.
 
debonair
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:11 am

CDGIAD wrote:
EW long haul is such a mess, you can book EW flights on both EW and LH websites, but when booking on LH it's not clear that you're getting a service not up to LH (alreday poor) level. EW flies out of FRA and MUC when they shouldn't have to begin with, and even competes with LH like on MUC-BKK.


That is not true, booking MUC-BKK on LH webpage, LH clearly states: "MUC - BKK LH5446 Operated by SUNEXPRESS GERMANY FOR EUROWINGS "

True, the long haul flights are a mess. It's a huge different flying SunExpress Germany or Brussels Airlines for Eurowings. But I think, maybe LH will shift this long haul operation to its in-house partner Lufthansa Cityline, in-line with lower operating and union costs. Lufthansa Cityline also operates the A340-300, so it shouldn't be a problem to transfer the Airbus EW long haul fleet to their AOC: https://www.lufthansacityline.com/en/home.html
 
RvA
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:57 am

For those unclear on why so many brands, have a look into the union relationships, wet lease clauses etc. and combine that with the ever present in the industry drive for lower costs. That might make things more clear.
As others have stated already, LH took over commercial operations for EW long haul so they are not competing with LH, it is managed commercially by the same people, just operated by a lower cost base.
 
Noshow
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:32 pm

Eurowings long range flights (operated/organized by sun express) had terrible delays and substandard customer care for quite some time. Operations seems to be running smoother now but their image might be next to ruined. Eurowings short and medium haul was and is way better. LH seems to look for a separate non LH brand to be able to pay less to staff.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:34 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Hahaha, I have a good laugh reading this thread! You guys are so funny......"Cum", what in the world.....Lol


:rotfl: :rotfl: Me too!!! laughing so hard when I read this!!!
 
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ua900
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:41 pm

seahawk wrote:
It was a necessity to keep the competition out. The gap left by Air Berlin had to be filled and there was no time to build an optimized operation from scratch, so one used what was available.


I believe that statement in the context of AB since U2 was doing the same thing, and that was particularly obvious at TXL. Seems they used every contractor under the sun to ramp up quickly, it was an amazing variety of equipment, every available plane was activated and looking at the apron it felt a bit like the Berlin Airlift. But 4U came before EW and well before AB's demise, and IMO the 4U > EW rebranding was primarily pushed because of 4U 9525. It now seems that the EW brand has also been damaged sufficiently. IMO AB wasn't really an LH competitor because AB had no coherent strategy, and FR and U2 aren't true competitors either since these carriers have a fundamentally different business model and cost structure that no part of the LH group has matched to date.

DE would be the best fit for LH Group in this day and age. A true about-face opportunity, not some n+1 rebranding of the day. In the wake of the MT liquidation, it seems like a win-win for both sides. Passengers in LH's home market would then at least know what to expect given that the DE product already exemplifies what LH Group was trying to get to all these years: A bit of a discount, but still decent service.
2020: AMS | BRU | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | IAH | LAX | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SFO | TXL
 
tommy1808
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Re: Lufthansa replacing Eurowings long haul by another brand?

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:02 pm

EChid wrote:
There's already a dire lack of competition in the German long-haul market.


Odd how I am on several long haul flights per year out of Germany, and almost never on Lufthansa/LH Group. Not even Star Alliance actually...
Domestic flying is the only area with no competition and in dire need of some, everywhere else you have ample options.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6

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