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n7371f
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Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:57 am

With the holidays at hand, 2 of the Boeing Dreamlifters made a trip to Marana/Pinal Air Park outside Tucson on Christmas Eve.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI ... /KCHS/KMZJ

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI ... /KPHX/KMZJ

Note the second flight diverted to PHX for a few hours due to inclement weather in the Tucson area.

Atlas Air has a significant contract with Ascent Aerospace for maintenance on its 744 fleet. What's interesting is the Dreamlifter fleet, owned by Boeing, appears to be undergoing checks as well in Marana.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:17 am

That’s because they are actually operated by atlas on contract exclusively for Boeing

IIRC
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
braniff2hav
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:28 am

Funny, we taxied in front of 4366 yesterday at CHS.
 
airzona11
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:45 am

What a treat for PHX.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:50 am

Imagine if Dreamlifters is chartered by Santa, fully loaded with gifts for children from the North Pole! :santahat: :present: :present: :present:
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:58 am

These Dreamlifters go through one of the busiest practice areas for student pilots in the country and cut by another very busy uncontrolled airport. I always feel very tiny in my Cessna when I see them at the same altitude going into Pinal Airpark,
 
wjcandee
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:37 am

n7371f wrote:
Atlas Air has a significant contract with Ascent Aerospace for maintenance on its 744 fleet. What's interesting is the Dreamlifter fleet, owned by Boeing, appears to be undergoing checks as well in Marana.


The Dreamlifters are owned by Boeing and operated by Atlas (and before them, Evergreen) on a CMI contract. The "M" is for maintenance.

(CMI = Crew, Maintenance, Insurance). (ACMI -- a "wet lease" -- is Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance). In both cases, the party contracting with the airline pays for the fuel.
 
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747classic
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:55 am

Because of the shutdown of the Boeing factories during Chrismas - New Year, this is the perfect time frame to perform maintenance at the Dreamlifter fleet.

Caused by the B767 assembly rate increase from 2.5 to 3 aircraft/month, all fully assembled B767 forward fuselage sections, produced by Spirit, are also scheduled since December 2019 to be transported by the Dreamlifter fleet from Wichita to Everett i.s.o. the former rail transport of the not assembled fwd fuselage parts. (section 41 assembly is now performed at Spirit, Wichita and not anymore at the Boeing Everett factory).
This new task, together with all the 787 transports, leaves very little space for Dreamlifter maintenance in the upcoming year.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:57 am

Do they ever use the Dreamlifters for non Boeing related cargo work ? Is there a capacity advantage to be (occasionally) exploited over a regular 747 freighter ?
 
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747classic
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:35 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Do they ever use the Dreamlifters for non Boeing related cargo work ?


No, not allowed, according the Type Certificate of the 747-400 Large Cargo Freighter (LCF) , the official name of the Dreamlifter :

Allowable Cargo:
These airplanes are not approved for commercial freight hauling operations of material other than that approved per Exemptions 8769, 8769A and 8769B. Only cargo that supports Boeing corporate lines of business is allowed for carriage. All items intended for carriage must conform to the standards found in Document D926U013-44, “747-400 LCF Flammability Acceptance Criteria for Cargo Carriage,” or be accepted by the FAA once a safe method of transport has been established. A summary of all items allowed for carriage is identified in Document D451U742-01, “Allowable Cargo – 747-400 Large Cargo Freighter.” Document D451U742-01 is considered part of the Weight and Balance Manual/Airplane Flight Manual. In addition, a listing of the FAA-approved shipping mechanical equipment (SME) fixtures that are approved for installation on the 747-400 LCF aircraft are contained in the Weight and Balance Control and Loading Manual (Document D043U545-BHC1).
Model Eligible Serial Numbers
747-409 24309 (RT631)
747-409 24310 (RT632)
747-4H6 27042 (RT743)
747-4J6 25879 (RT876)

See page 28/77 of the 747 Type certificate : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... _Rev60.pdf
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
timh4000
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:47 pm

afterburner wrote:
Imagine if Dreamlifters is chartered by Santa, fully loaded with gifts for children from the North Pole! :santahat: :present: :present: :present:

"Finally after all these years flying around in an open sleigh, ice cold climates and having to shove all those gifts into one giant bag. This will make my job soooooo much easier."
 
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Revelation
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:29 pm

Perhaps of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPdh1iABqY4

Boeing test pilot Jerry Whites shares the saga of the development of the Dreamlifter, which is the cargo version of the Boeing 747-400. They converted one of the world's most successful airliners into a massive, versatile, high capacity cargo carrier.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:34 pm

747classic wrote:
Because of the shutdown of the Boeing factories during Chrismas - New Year, this is the perfect time frame to perform maintenance at the Dreamlifter fleet.

Caused by the B767 assembly rate increase from 2.5 to 3 aircraft/month, all fully assembled B767 forward fuselage sections, produced by Spirit, are also scheduled since December 2019 to be transported by the Dreamlifter fleet from Wichita to Everett i.s.o. the former rail transport of the not assembled fwd fuselage parts. (section 41 assembly is now performed at Spirit, Wichita and not anymore at the Boeing Everett factory).
This new task, together with all the 787 transports, leaves very little space for Dreamlifter maintenance in the upcoming year.


That’s rather interesting to read as I was under the impression they were literally limited to just 787 parts which never made a great deal of sense to me
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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747classic
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:42 pm

The first 767 fwd fuselage transported by the Dreamlifter, PAE, December 4th 2019.

Image

Original uploaded by Katie Bailey at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/KPAE_Spotter/status ... 6410206208
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:07 pm

747classic wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Do they ever use the Dreamlifters for non Boeing related cargo work ?


No, not allowed, according the Type Certificate of the 747-400 Large Cargo Freighter (LCF) , the official name of the Dreamlifter :

Allowable Cargo:
These airplanes are not approved for commercial freight hauling operations of material other than that approved per Exemptions 8769, 8769A and 8769B. Only cargo that supports Boeing corporate lines of business is allowed for carriage. All items intended for carriage must conform to the standards found in Document D926U013-44, “747-400 LCF Flammability Acceptance Criteria for Cargo Carriage,” or be accepted by the FAA once a safe method of transport has been established. A summary of all items allowed for carriage is identified in Document D451U742-01, “Allowable Cargo – 747-400 Large Cargo Freighter.” Document D451U742-01 is considered part of the Weight and Balance Manual/Airplane Flight Manual. In addition, a listing of the FAA-approved shipping mechanical equipment (SME) fixtures that are approved for installation on the 747-400 LCF aircraft are contained in the Weight and Balance Control and Loading Manual (Document D043U545-BHC1).
Model Eligible Serial Numbers
747-409 24309 (RT631)
747-409 24310 (RT632)
747-4H6 27042 (RT743)
747-4J6 25879 (RT876)

See page 28/77 of the 747 Type certificate : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... _Rev60.pdf


That certainly answers the question, thanks.
 
ODwyerPW
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Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:27 pm

You'll see the 944 Waterbomber at Marana for maintenance as well. (Man, I can't believe how much that area has grown up in the 14 years I've been in Sonora and Arizona.)

Maybe I'll take a drive up there and have a look at them .
learning never stops.
 
ODwyerPW
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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:30 am

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:34 pm

It would be fascinating to the know the rational behind having this subfleet's operation being contracted out instead of being handled in-house. Man commerce is complicated.
learning never stops.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:42 pm

Atlas, for all its faults, has an operating certificate, crew training, the necessary dispatch and flight planning resources which would cost Boeing a ton and have no economies of scale for a small fleet.

GF
 
alasizon
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:59 pm

ODwyerPW wrote:
It would be fascinating to the know the rational behind having this subfleet's operation being contracted out instead of being handled in-house. Man commerce is complicated.


It isn't a subfleet, it is a fleet. It isn't as if Boeing has another dedicated freighter business on the side. The costs of establishing one inside of Boeing would be quite high. Better for Boeing if Atlas bears all the risk and is responsible for the issues.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
n7371f
Topic Author
Posts: 1768
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:40 am

The fleet was originally operated by Evergreen, which ironically owned Pinal Air Park, until shortly before its demise.

ODwyerPW wrote:
It would be fascinating to the know the rational behind having this subfleet's operation being contracted out instead of being handled in-house. Man commerce is complicated.
 
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747classic
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:31 am

It seems that the Dreamlifter fleet will be retrofitted with Honeywell NGFMC's as installed in the 747-8 series.
The 744 FMC will be upgraded to the new NGFMC standard : changing of some FMC cards and if required : replacing of older 744 displays plus some minor wiring changes.
N780BA made a certification flight at January 06th.
See Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of Jan 06th : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/01/paine- ... ary-6.html
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
MO11
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:58 pm

n7371f wrote:
The fleet was originally operated by Evergreen, which ironically owned Pinal Air Park, until shortly before its demise.


Ironically, Pinal County has owned the Pinal Air Park since the Air Force disposed of it in 1948. It was leased to Intermountain Aviation in the late 1950s.
 
paperwastage
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 pm

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:18 pm

alasizon wrote:
ODwyerPW wrote:
It would be fascinating to the know the rational behind having this subfleet's operation being contracted out instead of being handled in-house. Man commerce is complicated.


It isn't a subfleet, it is a fleet. It isn't as if Boeing has another dedicated freighter business on the side. The costs of establishing one inside of Boeing would be quite high. Better for Boeing if Atlas bears all the risk and is responsible for the issues.

Just curious, can anyone answer the same questions for Airbus's Beluga (and Beluga XL in the future)

I understand Beluga is open for charters (rare), not sure whether Airbus is operating it in-house or under CMI contract?
 
pugman211
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Even the Dreamlifters get a Christmas break

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:14 pm

paperwastage wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ODwyerPW wrote:
It would be fascinating to the know the rational behind having this subfleet's operation being contracted out instead of being handled in-house. Man commerce is complicated.


It isn't a subfleet, it is a fleet. It isn't as if Boeing has another dedicated freighter business on the side. The costs of establishing one inside of Boeing would be quite high. Better for Boeing if Atlas bears all the risk and is responsible for the issues.

Just curious, can anyone answer the same questions for Airbus's Beluga (and Beluga XL in the future)

I understand Beluga is open for charters (rare), not sure whether Airbus is operating it in-house or under CMI contract?



The Beluga's (all of them) are operated by Airbus Transport, therefore internal to Airbus.

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