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Cody
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Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:38 am

Tonight I was going through some of my old Eastern schedules and newsletters and learned some things I never knew. Maybe others will like these too!

1.) Just prior to the strike, Eastern was flying non stop from Miami to Santiago, Chile. I had always thought that flight stopped in Buenos Aires or came down the west coast of South America with multiple stops, but in March of 1989 they were doing it nonstop three days a week.

2.) Most EAL enthusiasts already know the three DC-10-30s were used from Miami-London/JFK/Los Angeles/Rio De Janiero/Montevideo/Buenos Aires, and Santiago. But did you know Eastern flew the DC-10-30 to Bogota as well? In fact, it operated the last revenue Eastern flight from Bogota in August of 1990.

3.) Besides London and almost Madrid, Eastern was looking to further their reach across the Atlantic specifically with nonstops from Miami to Frankfurt, Zurich, and Tel Aviv.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:23 pm

Didn't know any of this, but the kicker is TLV????????????????????? Seriously??? From MIA I presume? Where was this "published"?
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northstardc4m
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:40 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Didn't know any of this, but the kicker is TLV????????????????????? Seriously??? From MIA I presume? Where was this "published"?
They are mentioned in a possible destinations map in one of the annual reports... Along with AMS, FCO and BCN... BCN was planned as an extension of MAD, the others have no departure points listed but MIA would of been the likely candidate. I'll see if I can dig it up in a couple days if interested? TLV probably would of been via somewhere in Europe as TLV-MIA would of been beyond the abilities of the DC10-30s... I'm not even sure a DC10-30ER could of done it reliably at 5600+ nm


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Ziyulu
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:14 pm

Did MU copycat Eastern Airlines? In China, you have China Eastern, and China United. Both look like copy cats.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:56 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Didn't know any of this, but the kicker is TLV????????????????????? Seriously??? From MIA I presume? Where was this "published"?
They are mentioned in a possible destinations map in one of the annual reports... Along with AMS, FCO and BCN... BCN was planned as an extension of MAD, the others have no departure points listed but MIA would of been the likely candidate. I'll see if I can dig it up in a couple days if interested? TLV probably would of been via somewhere in Europe as TLV-MIA would of been beyond the abilities of the DC10-30s... I'm not even sure a DC10-30ER could of done it reliably at 5600+ nm


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No, don't go to any trouble, it's not that big of a deal; but thanks for the offer. I agree MIA would've been the most likely starting point and that it would've had to have been via a European point (unless EA also planned to get a couple 747SP's!). It just blew me away to see TLV as a wish-list city for EA! LOL
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MO11
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:18 pm

In 1982, the CAB instituted a Miami-Madrid-Tel Aviv route case. Applicants were Arrow, Eastern, Air Florida, and Transamerica (Pan Am had Miami-Madrid authority, but was not operating the route). Arrow, Eastern, and Transamerica eventually withdrew their applications. Air Florida was granted a five-year authority on the route on July 1, 1983.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Did MU copycat Eastern Airlines? In China, you have China Eastern, and China United. Both look like copy cats.



The name of Chine Eastern/Southern comes from the 6 regional divisions of CAAC
 
phllax
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:00 pm

MO11 wrote:
In 1982, the CAB instituted a Miami-Madrid-Tel Aviv route case. Applicants were Arrow, Eastern, Air Florida, and Transamerica (Pan Am had Miami-Madrid authority, but was not operating the route). Arrow, Eastern, and Transamerica eventually withdrew their applications. Air Florida was granted a five-year authority on the route on July 1, 1983.


What was the CAB still doing around in 1982? I thought by then everything for international route authorities was via the DOT?
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:06 pm

MO11 wrote:
In 1982, the CAB instituted a Miami-Madrid-Tel Aviv route case. Applicants were Arrow, Eastern, Air Florida, and Transamerica (Pan Am had Miami-Madrid authority, but was not operating the route). Arrow, Eastern, and Transamerica eventually withdrew their applications. Air Florida was granted a five-year authority on the route on July 1, 1983.


PA stopped operating MIA-MAD in early 1980. It was an odd drop considering after the NA merger, PA finally had domestic feed into MIA that might have made that route more viable.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:07 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Didn't know any of this, but the kicker is TLV????????????????????? Seriously??? From MIA I presume? Where was this "published"?


I have an annual report or EA document somewhere which has TLV on a proposed route map. Have to find it! I most certainly have seen it.
 
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STT757
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Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:40 pm

Cody wrote:
Tonight I was going through some of my old Eastern schedules and newsletters and learned some things I never knew. Maybe others will like these too!

1.) Just prior to the strike, Eastern was flying non stop from Miami to Santiago, Chile. I had always thought that flight stopped in Buenos Aires or came down the west coast of South America with multiple stops, but in March of 1989 they were doing it nonstop three days a week.

2.) Most EAL enthusiasts already know the three DC-10-30s were used from Miami-London/JFK/Los Angeles/Rio De Janiero/Montevideo/Buenos Aires, and Santiago. But did you know Eastern flew the DC-10-30 to Bogota as well? In fact, it operated the last revenue Eastern flight from Bogota in August of 1990.

3.) Besides London and almost Madrid, Eastern was looking to further their reach across the Atlantic specifically with nonstops from Miami to Frankfurt, Zurich, and Tel Aviv.


I have to challenge a couple things, first Eastern never served Montevideo. Pan Am and later United did.

Eastern had three DC-10s, they launched MIA-LGW and planned MIA-MAD but did not launch the Madrid flight. Eastern was acquired by Texas Air and several routes were transferred to Continental which they flew until they sold it to AA in 1990. When CO took over the Miami-London route EA then sold one DC-10 to CO and then used the remaining two to launch MIA-EZE-SCL. They flew MIA-EZE-SCL daily with the DC-10, never flew SCL nonstop. In addition. to the MIA-EZE-SCL flight EA also offered two stop service with a 727 three times a week to Santiago from Miami with stops in Panama City and Lima.

In late 1989 Eastern gained rights to fly to Brazil, they launched MIA-GIG-EZE with the DC-10. They moved Santiago Chile to a one stop flight from
Miami via Lima with a L-1011, in addition to the two stop 727 service three times a week to
Miami via LIM and PTY.

In terms of the DC-10 operating the last flights BOG, that route was a L-1011, I don’t recall the DC-10
Operating that route. All three Eastern DC-10a went to CO, one in 1985, and two in 1990. The two In 1990 went to CO in September of that year, that’s right around the time (Spring/Summer1990) when the route transfer to AA was complete.

One little known fact, AA bought the Miami-Latin American routes but CO got their NY-Mexico and Latin routes. Which is why AA never had rights to MEX , BOG etc from JFK. DL got their JFK-MEX rights from Pan Am.

Eastern used to operate nonstop JFK-MEX, JFK-PTY-GYE, JFK-BOG-UIO with 757s( 3x weekly). The flights departed the Eastern terminal but used the FIS at T-7. They also had rights for NY-Lima and LAX- Central America which CO also acquired. CO initially flew JFK-MEX and layer switched it to EWR. In the mid nineties about five years after acquiring the routes CO launched EWR-PTY-GYE, EWR-BOG-UIO, EWR-LIM. They also flew LAX-SAL.

Eastern was my favorite airline and they’re why I love aviation. I remember flying by myself EWR-TPA when I was about eight years old on a Eastern L-1011, it was White not Silver, and the
Flight attendant took me into the cockpit during the flight to meet the pilots. I remember the view, from
there being absolutely amazing. That’s something kids will never experience again.

My last Eastern trip was December 1989 / January 1990. I flew LGA-MIA on an L-1011 in December 1989 flying home MIA-EWR on a Eastern 757. I was fourteen and remember everything. I remember seeing the Eastern DC-10 in person, very exciting since they only had two that never came to NY.

Later that Summer, August 1990 my family and I flew MIA-EWR on CO from the old Eastern concourse. It was a shadow of their former operation I had seen that previous January.

They were gone five months later.

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Polot
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:03 pm

phllax wrote:
MO11 wrote:
In 1982, the CAB instituted a Miami-Madrid-Tel Aviv route case. Applicants were Arrow, Eastern, Air Florida, and Transamerica (Pan Am had Miami-Madrid authority, but was not operating the route). Arrow, Eastern, and Transamerica eventually withdrew their applications. Air Florida was granted a five-year authority on the route on July 1, 1983.


What was the CAB still doing around in 1982? I thought by then everything for international route authorities was via the DOT?

CAB wasn’t disbanded until mid 1985.
 
Cody
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:52 pm

STT757,

My apologies on the Montevideo....you are correct. Eastern never flew there and I misread an airport code.

According to the very last Eastern timetable prior to the strike (March 2, 1989) they operated nonstop to Santiago from Miami on Thursday only. And now that I look closer at it that was not scheduled to begin until March 9....five days after the strike! So maybe it did not happen after all, but was scheduled to begin. I wish I could post a picture of this for people to see.

Sorry to have misread that but at least it got a conversation going about Eastern. We are the same age and had similar experiences. I also got to see one of the DC-10's sitting in Miami and it was a true highlight.

DC-10s in Bogota....I would not have believed it either, but I have a photo of the last Eastern flight out and it is a DC-10. Perhaps it was a swap out if AA took the Buenos Aires route over a few hours prior to the rest of the routes...that I don't know.

As far as Europe is concerned, the TLV route shows proposed from Miami, but maybe it would have made a stops someplace in Europe. As someone else posted it may have been the MIA-MAD-TLV route that became available in 1983. Bobby Boothe from Air Florida later got that authority, but the route never opened.

Something else interesting I found was Borman visited Honolulu in hopes of flying there just prior to the Texas Air acquisition.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:57 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Did MU copycat Eastern Airlines? In China, you have China Eastern, and China United. Both look like copy cats.

As the other poster said, no.

But, you shouldn't forget China Northwest, China Southern, China Southwest ,China National

I remember joking with my brother that someday we were going to see China Delta and China American airlines too...(and who knows, China TWA? China America West, China USAir, China Air Florida??)
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:49 pm

Great stuff! I liked Eastern, too. It was the airline on which I first flew. Now, if we could only make the AvGhouls & AvParasites stop trying to resurrect "The Wings of Man."
"Facing a crisis does not not build one's character, it reveals it."

"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

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cathay747
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:01 pm

MO11 wrote:
In 1982, the CAB instituted a Miami-Madrid-Tel Aviv route case. Applicants were Arrow, Eastern, Air Florida, and Transamerica (Pan Am had Miami-Madrid authority, but was not operating the route). Arrow, Eastern, and Transamerica eventually withdrew their applications. Air Florida was granted a five-year authority on the route on July 1, 1983.


Wow...what an almost bizarre list of applicants! And I never knew QH got such a far-flung route authority! Imagine...QH to TLV! Unreal.
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STT757
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Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:27 pm

Cody wrote:
STT757,

My apologies on the Montevideo....you are correct. Eastern never flew there and I misread an airport code.

According to the very last Eastern timetable prior to the strike (March 2, 1989) they operated nonstop to Santiago from Miami on Thursday only. And now that I look closer at it that was not scheduled to begin until March 9....five days after the strike! So maybe it did not happen after all, but was scheduled to begin. I wish I could post a picture of this for people to see.

Sorry to have misread that but at least it got a conversation going about Eastern. We are the same age and had similar experiences. I also got to see one of the DC-10's sitting in Miami and it was a true highlight.

DC-10s in Bogota....I would not have believed it either, but I have a photo of the last Eastern flight out and it is a DC-10. Perhaps it was a swap out if AA took the Buenos Aires route over a few hours prior to the rest of the routes...that I don't know.

As far as Europe is concerned, the TLV route shows proposed from Miami, but maybe it would have made a stops someplace in Europe. As someone else posted it may have been the MIA-MAD-TLV route that became available in 1983. Bobby Boothe from Air Florida later got that authority, but the route never opened.

Something else interesting I found was Borman visited Honolulu in hopes of flying there just prior to the Texas Air acquisition.


Hi Cody,

After digging through my extensive timetable collection I found my Eastern January 31, 1989 and March 2, 1989 timetables (right before the strike). You are 100% right.

Beginning in January of 1989 there was a nonstop Miami-Santiago flight on Thursdays only flight # 27. In the January timetable it does not continue to EZE, but in the March one it does. Btw. The nonstop to SCL was scheduled to end in March.

Btw..

Here’s another mystery, in this video of a Pan Am flight from Buenos Aires to Montevideo you can see a Eastern L-1011 at a gate at EZE. I thought that when Eastern closed the LGW route and moved the DC-10s to nonstop MIA-EZE-SCL that they dropped the L-1011 flights to EZE which went through Lima and Santiago if I recall correctly. I thought the nonstop Dc-10 flights to EZE began in ‘86. In this video there’s a Eastern L-1011 at EZE in 1987.

https://youtu.be/7pPfh4HlU5o


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JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:47 pm

Didn't realized that EA only had 2 DC-10s at the end. Guess I was lucky to see (and photograph) one at LAX in the fall of 1988. Assume it was flying LAX-MIA.
 
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STT757
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Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:52 pm

JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:
Didn't realized that EA only had 2 DC-10s at the end. Guess I was lucky to see (and photograph) one at LAX in the fall of 1988. Assume it was flying LAX-MIA.


They had three in 1985, but sold one to CO in less than a year. The remaining two flew for Eastern until they were also acquired by CO in September and December of 1990.

The only domestic routes they flew was MIA-LAX.

One of the mysteries that I think was discussed on Anet at one point is why Eastern didn’t acquire L-1011-500s for their long haul routes. If I recall correctly the consensus on here was basically they got the DC-10s, from Alitalia, for a steal. The L-1011-500s were out of production in the mid nineties and the ones out there were expensive.


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timz
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:24 am

STT757 wrote:
The only domestic routes [EA DC-10s] flew was MIA-LAX.


Think they were known to fly MIA-JFK. As I recall Eastern, MIA-JFK, is the answer to the question

What airline used airliners of four makers on one airport pair, at the same time?
 
Cody
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:09 am

I have an old, "Aviation Week & Space Technolgy" article that mentions Eastern looking to get the L1011-500 to operate the Miami-London route. In the end, as we know, the DC-10-30 won out. Maybe the L1011-500 market was sparce at the time.

Not sure why an L1011 was in EZE that late in the game. Rare substitution perhaps?

I will not swear to this, and maybe someone out there knows, but I think I read somewhere that only a few specific L1011's were used in South America due to high-altitude airports and Eastern paid a good but to upgrade the engines. Was that really the case and if so does anyone out there know what the tail numbers were?

The Eastern DC-10s also made a few, and that really might even be a single, visit to Atlanta and Boston as well. Substitutions or diversions.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:05 pm

Cool. Eastern was my first love. White Eastern L-1011 with the word Whisperliner on the tail engine was such a beautiful thing to me. Not sure if I saw one in-person ever though. My mother searched long and hard for a model and I even wrote in 1984-85 AirJet Advance Models in Miami if they had one, but no they did not. Eastern A300 to Orlando back in 1982, my brother and I going up to the cocpit with the pilots impressed that we asked if the aircraft was a 767. And the blue cheat lines changing to underneath the windows. Always wondered who made that decision? It did look good that narrower cheat line! Used to have a Meet Our Fleet poster and a poster route map. Was always amazed that my favorite airline had such an extensive international presense in the southern hemisphere. Eastern L-1011 forever! And when they got the DC-10 it was like they were ready to join the big boys American and United!
 
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STT757
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:49 pm

Cody wrote:
I have an old, "Aviation Week & Space Technolgy" article that mentions Eastern looking to get the L1011-500 to operate the Miami-London route. In the end, as we know, the DC-10-30 won out. Maybe the L1011-500 market was sparce at the time.

Not sure why an L1011 was in EZE that late in the game. Rare substitution perhaps?

I will not swear to this, and maybe someone out there knows, but I think I read somewhere that only a few specific L1011's were used in South America due to high-altitude airports and Eastern paid a good but to upgrade the engines. Was that really the case and if so does anyone out there know what the tail numbers were?

The Eastern DC-10s also made a few, and that really might even be a single, visit to Atlanta and Boston as well. Substitutions or diversions.


I did some checking, according to Eastern’s January 31, 1987 timetable in addition to the DC-10 MIA-EZE-SCL FLIGHT there was also a two stop L-1011 flight MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE that operated TU, TH, SU flight #15.


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JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:21 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Cool. Eastern was my first love. White Eastern L-1011 with the word Whisperliner on the tail engine was such a beautiful thing to me. Not sure if I saw one in-person ever though. My mother searched long and hard for a model and I even wrote in 1984-85 AirJet Advance Models in Miami if they had one, but no they did not. Eastern A300 to Orlando back in 1982, my brother and I going up to the cocpit with the pilots impressed that we asked if the aircraft was a 767. And the blue cheat lines changing to underneath the windows. Always wondered who made that decision? It did look good that narrower cheat line! Used to have a Meet Our Fleet poster and a poster route map. Was always amazed that my favorite airline had such an extensive international presense in the southern hemisphere. Eastern L-1011 forever! And when they got the DC-10 it was like they were ready to join the big boys American and United!


Try eBay, I got an EA L-1011 that way (also a 727 and DC-9!) . A long shot would be Amazon.
 
kellmark
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:48 am

Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:24 am

JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Cool. Eastern was my first love. White Eastern L-1011 with the word Whisperliner on the tail engine was such a beautiful thing to me. Not sure if I saw one in-person ever though. My mother searched long and hard for a model and I even wrote in 1984-85 AirJet Advance Models in Miami if they had one, but no they did not. Eastern A300 to Orlando back in 1982, my brother and I going up to the cocpit with the pilots impressed that we asked if the aircraft was a 767. And the blue cheat lines changing to underneath the windows. Always wondered who made that decision? It did look good that narrower cheat line! Used to have a Meet Our Fleet poster and a poster route map. Was always amazed that my favorite airline had such an extensive international presense in the southern hemisphere. Eastern L-1011 forever! And when they got the DC-10 it was like they were ready to join the big boys American and United!


Try eBay, I got an EA L-1011 that way (also a 727 and DC-9!) . A long shot would be Amazon.



Thanks for suggestion. Did you get the whisperliner one?
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:31 am

kellmark wrote:
Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.


Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I remember one rainy night around 1983 at my grandmother's the planes used to come right over to JFK. I remember looking up out the window and seeing an Eastern L-1011 with tail lights on the stripe livery. A silver bird. It's an image in my mind forever! L-1011's were awesome. The DC-10s were also awesome to see in Eastern livery. I may have seen it once. Not sure if it was at JFK.
 
BC77008
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:15 pm

STT757 wrote:

Eastern was my favorite airline and they’re why I love aviation. I remember flying by myself EWR-TPA when I was about eight years old on a Eastern L-1011, it was White not Silver, and the
Flight attendant took me into the cockpit during the flight to meet the pilots. I remember the view, from
there being absolutely amazing. That’s something kids will never experience again.


They were also my most favorite! I had very similar experiences beginning at age 8 flying them unaccompanied with my slightly younger sister, but our visits to the cockpit always happened on the ground. I still remember their multi-colored seats in coach, the friendliness of the flight attendants, and the smell of fresh coffee and jet fuel that greeted you just as you walked in through the main cabin door on a DC9. Of course, who can forget the kids coloring/puzzle books, the trays of food with the little dessert cake, and the red and white UM badges they had unaccompanied minors wear? (I swear a week later I was still wearing my badge!)

Each time I flew them I connected through ATL - I remember how awesome I thought their underground train was - especially the robotic voice... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZX2xa9OhI
MY favorite airline and hub is bigger and/or better than YOUR favorite airline and hub!
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:03 pm

kellmark wrote:
Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.


As a BOSFO B727 SO, thanks for all your work. 1984-89. I loved working there, but between the turmoil and the routine of airline flying, I don’t miss it. Loved my military and corporate flying.
 
Cody
Topic Author
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:27 pm

kellmark wrote:
Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.


Thank you for the great response! You are probably the one to ask...

Besides JFK, LAX, MIA, LGW, GIG, EZE, and SCL what other airports do you recall the DC-10 ever landing?

I have seen photos of one in BOS and Bogota and heard it landed in ATL once.
 
Cody
Topic Author
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:39 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Cool. Eastern was my first love. White Eastern L-1011 with the word Whisperliner on the tail engine was such a beautiful thing to me. Not sure if I saw one in-person ever though. My mother searched long and hard for a model and I even wrote in 1984-85 AirJet Advance Models in Miami if they had one, but no they did not. Eastern A300 to Orlando back in 1982, my brother and I going up to the cocpit with the pilots impressed that we asked if the aircraft was a 767. And the blue cheat lines changing to underneath the windows. Always wondered who made that decision? It did look good that narrower cheat line! Used to have a Meet Our Fleet poster and a poster route map. Was always amazed that my favorite airline had such an extensive international presense in the southern hemisphere. Eastern L-1011 forever! And when they got the DC-10 it was like they were ready to join the big boys American and United!


Try eBay, I got an EA L-1011 that way (also a 727 and DC-9!) . A long shot would be Amazon.



Thanks for suggestion. Did you get the whisperliner one?


I have a giant WHISPERLINER L1011 and I wish I could figure out how to post a picture because it is a gem! The model is quite large, 1/50 scale perhaps, and sits on a Star-Trek era wooden stand. I was told this model came from Eastern's Atlanta City ticket office and was actually built in the early 1970s in Lockheed's model shop, but I cannot confirm this. I contacted PacMin and they do not think they built it as the window decals do not match the ones they used in that era.

I always wanted to get a hold of the big L1011 model hanging in the "If You Had Wings" ride in Disney World. If I remember right, it was beautiful, but had an almost animated look to it, especially when looking at the cockpit windows. Wonder what happened to it????

As for the real fleet, around 1982 some aircraft had the stripes moved below the windows in an attempt to save painting time and not having to individually mask off each window seperately. When Martin Shugrue took over, heavy emphasis was put into aesthetics and the fleet returned to the wide stripes over the windows and very bright silver fuselages.

This is strictly my opinion, but I think Eastern looked better than it ever did the day it shut down in 1991.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:03 pm

BC77008 wrote:
STT757 wrote:

Eastern was my favorite airline and they’re why I love aviation. I remember flying by myself EWR-TPA when I was about eight years old on a Eastern L-1011, it was White not Silver, and the
Flight attendant took me into the cockpit during the flight to meet the pilots. I remember the view, from
there being absolutely amazing. That’s something kids will never experience again.


They were also my most favorite! I had very similar experiences beginning at age 8 flying them unaccompanied with my slightly younger sister, but our visits to the cockpit always happened on the ground. I still remember their multi-colored seats in coach, the friendliness of the flight attendants, and the smell of fresh coffee and jet fuel that greeted you just as you walked in through the main cabin door on a DC9. Of course, who can forget the kids coloring/puzzle books, the trays of food with the little dessert cake, and the red and white UM badges they had unaccompanied minors wear? (I swear a week later I was still wearing my badge!)

Each time I flew them I connected through ATL - I remember how awesome I thought their underground train was - especially the robotic voice... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZX2xa9OhI


Robot: The color-coded maps and signs of this vehicle match the station colors. Please move to the center of the vehicle and away from the doors!
Loved that voice and efficiency of what was said. I remember when it was all mono-tone robot without the cowboy one (as I refer to it as!). That train is good stuff!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Cody wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:

Try eBay, I got an EA L-1011 that way (also a 727 and DC-9!) . A long shot would be Amazon.



Thanks for suggestion. Did you get the whisperliner one?


I have a giant WHISPERLINER L1011 and I wish I could figure out how to post a picture because it is a gem! The model is quite large, 1/50 scale perhaps, and sits on a Star-Trek era wooden stand. I was told this model came from Eastern's Atlanta City ticket office and was actually built in the early 1970s in Lockheed's model shop, but I cannot confirm this. I contacted PacMin and they do not think they built it as the window decals do not match the ones they used in that era.

I always wanted to get a hold of the big L1011 model hanging in the "If You Had Wings" ride in Disney World. If I remember right, it was beautiful, but had an almost animated look to it, especially when looking at the cockpit windows. Wonder what happened to it????

As for the real fleet, around 1982 some aircraft had the stripes moved below the windows in an attempt to save painting time and not having to individually mask off each window seperately. When Martin Shugrue took over, heavy emphasis was put into aesthetics and the fleet returned to the wide stripes over the windows and very bright silver fuselages.

This is strictly my opinion, but I think Eastern looked better than it ever did the day it shut down in 1991.


Cool about that 1:50 scale whisperliner L-1011. I used to have a silver one at 1:250, I believe. But the one you have is travel agent size! Nice! Never get rid of that. Awesome if was made by Lockheed. I would imagine Lockheed would gift such models to good customers, of which Eastern was. I actually liked the stripe below the window and thickened at tail section. But both were good. And the the gray-body birds (A300 and 727-100s) were interesting. Looked very corporate. And I remember that Disney ride. That was awesome and great marketing. Don't remember the L-1011 model from memory. Always wondered why Delta didn't create a ride when they first became the official airline of Walt Disney World in 1987.
 
Cody
Topic Author
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:38 pm

You can search "If You Had Wings" and see the hanging model.

Interesting story, a friend of mine also found the exact type of model I have and it previously hung in the terminal in Miami. Somewhere along the line it was repainted metallic silver and apparently it was done by Eastern's own people in their paint shop. They simply masked off the blue stripes and left a little bit of a white outline and spray painted the whole thing silver. They also matched the navy blue and hand-painted the area below the nose.

You can still make out the "Whisperliner" titles under the silver paint.
 
n2dru
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:22 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Cody wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:


Thanks for suggestion. Did you get the whisperliner one?


I have a giant WHISPERLINER L1011 and I wish I could figure out how to post a picture because it is a gem! The model is quite large, 1/50 scale perhaps, and sits on a Star-Trek era wooden stand. I was told this model came from Eastern's Atlanta City ticket office and was actually built in the early 1970s in Lockheed's model shop, but I cannot confirm this. I contacted PacMin and they do not think they built it as the window decals do not match the ones they used in that era.

I always wanted to get a hold of the big L1011 model hanging in the "If You Had Wings" ride in Disney World. If I remember right, it was beautiful, but had an almost animated look to it, especially when looking at the cockpit windows. Wonder what happened to it????

As for the real fleet, around 1982 some aircraft had the stripes moved below the windows in an attempt to save painting time and not having to individually mask off each window seperately. When Martin Shugrue took over, heavy emphasis was put into aesthetics and the fleet returned to the wide stripes over the windows and very bright silver fuselages.

This is strictly my opinion, but I think Eastern looked better than it ever did the day it shut down in 1991.


Cool about that 1:50 scale whisperliner L-1011. I used to have a silver one at 1:250, I believe. But the one you have is travel agent size! Nice! Never get rid of that. Awesome if was made by Lockheed. I would imagine Lockheed would gift such models to good customers, of which Eastern was. I actually liked the stripe below the window and thickened at tail section. But both were good. And the the gray-body birds (A300 and 727-100s) were interesting. Looked very corporate. And I remember that Disney ride. That was awesome and great marketing. Don't remember the L-1011 model from memory. Always wondered why Delta didn't create a ride when they first became the official airline of Walt Disney World in 1987.


Actually Delta did. The Delta Dreamflight opened in the same space used by If You Had Wings at the Magic Kingdom in 1989. The opening of the ride had you entering a 762 (the Spirit of Delta). They also had a ticket office at the Contemporary resort during that same time. The ride closed in early 1998.
Last edited by n2dru on Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
kellmark
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:32 am

Cody wrote:
kellmark wrote:
Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.


Thank you for the great response! You are probably the one to ask...

Besides JFK, LAX, MIA, LGW, GIG, EZE, and SCL what other airports do you recall the DC-10 ever landing?

I have seen photos of one in BOS and Bogota and heard it landed in ATL once.



The DC10 likely did go to ATL, most probably as a substitution for another type aircraft.

One place I do remember about the DC10 was a charter to Santa Cruz , Bolivia. When we flew charters to offline stations we would always load a "flyaway kit" on board, which included basic equipment and spares, like a tow bar and spare tires, etc. In this case, the wrong tow bar was placed in the aircraft. When it arrived at Santa Cruz, it was parked in at the gate, but no proper tow bar was available anywhere on the airport to push it back. So a creative solution was performed. The Bolivian Army was adjacent. Let's just say some of their soldiers got a little extra exercise that day, and pulled the airplane back. Of course, things were simpler back then, long before before 9/11 and all. But the airplane got out. Things tend to work differently in different countries.
 
kellmark
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:57 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
kellmark wrote:
Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.


As a BOSFO B727 SO, thanks for all your work. 1984-89. I loved working there, but between the turmoil and the routine of airline flying, I don’t miss it. Loved my military and corporate flying.



Thanks for your excellent work. The flight crews were the first line of the airline, getting people from A to B under what were often some very challenging circumstances. In those last years, it became very stressful going to work everyday, what with the labor problems and schedule reliability issues that we had to try to fix. Plus the anxiety of not knowing everyday if we would have a job tomorrow. But even with all that, I would not have traded the experience for anything. However, I can understand if that experience would have turned someone away from the airline business.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:49 am

When I was a new-hire, myself and another new-hire did a low pass in a flight of A-10s over the Sanderson Farm summer picnic which was always a huge deal—Borman visited several of them. Frank’s visit to new-hire Indoc was the highlight of each class. He spoke with each of us individually and took questions from the class.

The people were great, the flying boring. We had some great crews, I learned a huge amount about flying there.

GF
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14107
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:58 am

kellmark wrote:
Just thought I would comment on a few things about the Eastern Latin America operation. I was with the company for 23 years, and I was lucky enough to work in every major division, with the last five as a System Ops Director in Ops Control/Flight Dispatch. I loved every day I went to work there.

Regarding the L-1011 and DC10-30 operation, the normal op for the DC-10 was the MIA-EZE-SCL flight. We did have a problem with it regarding timing. It left MIA late at night and would arrive in the morning in EZE sometimes when the fog would set in to the point where it was below minimums for landing. Our usual alternate was MVD (Montevideo). There were occasions when it would divert there. When a diversion happened, by the time the flight returned to EZE the crew would be out of time to continue on to SCL, and we would have to cancel round trip EZE-SCL-EZE. Because of this issue, when morning fog was forecast for EZE we would purposely delay the flight in MIA, by holding the crew at home for several hours, so the flight would arrive at EZE after the weather improved and the SCL operation could operate. It was not the best solution, as a retiming of the flight would have been better. But it solved the immediate problem to an extent. Later on the instrument landing facilities were improved in EZE as I recall. The DC-10-30 worked very well for us, and was a very capable aircraft and generally considered to be more reliable than the L-1011, in spite of its history. But we only had 3 of them, hardly a sufficient number for efficiency. It did also operate MIA-LAX and MIA-JFK at times. We also used them for charter operations.

We also had a problem with Lima. There was a time when the bilateral air service agreement between the US and Peru lapsed and we lost the authority to Lima for an extended period, except for overflights and technical stops. (1st and 2nd freedoms). Lima had been a kind of focus city for us, with a crew base, etc. We transferred part of that operation to Santo Domingo, and generally avoided Peru. But that also is a reason you might see a flight from MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE. An L-1011-1 could operate that route operationally and legally bypass Lima.

Regarding the L-1011s to South America, all of our aircraft were L-1011-1s. Some of the early ones, I think 6 or so, had heavier empty/operating weights and we tried to keep them off the South American routes due to the high southbound loads, with all of the extra baggage, etc. Also, the higher elevation airports and alternates that were further away from the destination airport on the southbound compared to Northbound were a factor. For example, a flight MIA-LIM would use Pisco as an alternate which was not close, but a flight from LIM-MIA could use FLL, just close by. So southbound required more fuel than northbound.

Also we used B757s to South America as well, but due to a limited oxygen capability for emergency descents combined with the high altitude of the Andes mountains, we had to route west of the Andes with those airplanes, lengthening the route.

La Paz was also interesting. We acquired several B727s with more powerful engines and high speed tires and brakes to be able to operate out of there. 13,400 feet up.

Anyway, just some thoughts in general.


Wow, I would love buy you a beer and pick your memory. As I mentioned earlier Eastern is why I fell in love with aviation. Many flights as a kid with my last Eastern flight in 1990 when I was 14.

You mentioned Lima, I saw in my January 1987 timetable that Lima was missing from the schedules but was still on the route map. You connected the dots there, which is why I saw the MIA-PTY-SCL-EZE L-1011 flight in there.

Were you there when they launched Rio De Janeiro in 1989? When they launched RIO they changed the MIA-EZE-SCL DC-10 flight to MIA-GIG-EZE. They moved SCL to MIA-GYE-SCL daily with an L-1011 and PTY-LIM-SCL with a 727 3xweekly.

They had in their timetable São Paulo being listed as a one stop flight from MIA, but it must of been some kind of connection to a Brazilian carrier at GIG.

With regards to the L-1011s vs the DC-10s, I think CO, NWA, UA, AA proved the DC-10 to be a beast on long haul routes. I feel like Eastern should have dumped the L-1011s in favor of the A300s and 757s domestically, and the Dc-10 for long hauls. The A300 could have handled the Caribbean , Mexico, Central America . I'm not sure if the A300 could have operated MIA-Guayaquil, Cali, Bogota and Caracas performance wise. Two engines and two crew vs. three and two engines vs three made the A300 and 757s more economical.

They could have grew the DC-10 fleet to ten or twelve, utilizing them for: MIA-GIG, MIA-EZE, MIA-SCL, MIA-LIM and if the A300 didn't have the performance MIA-BOG, MIA-GYE.

They could have added ATL-LGW, ATL-HNL with domestic flights MIA-LAX, MIA-ATL, MIA-JFK. They could have added JFK-EZE-SCL nonstop with the DC-10.

You mentioned Eastern 757s to South America, Eastern flew their 757s JFK-PTY-GYE, JFK-BOG-UIO, LAX-PTY-BOG and MIA-UIO with 757s.


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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:04 am

In the early ‘70s, I won a set of pencil drawings of all the Eastern planes from the Pitcairn to the TriStar by guessing the combined seniority of the flight crew. Still have them, they’re beautiful.

We had some colorful pilots, like the one that wore a parachute out to the Electra after the Braniff wing failure. Or the ORD Pilot, that landed a Martin 404 at his farm after being weathered out of ORD, took the passengers inside where he and his wife fixed them coffee and breakfast.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:27 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
In the early ‘70s, I won a set of pencil drawings of all the Eastern planes from the Pitcairn to the TriStar by guessing the combined seniority of the flight crew. Still have them, they’re beautiful.

We had some colorful pilots, like the one that wore a parachute out to the Electra after the Braniff wing failure. Or the ORD Pilot, that landed a Martin 404 at his farm after being weathered out of ORD, took the passengers inside where he and his wife fixed them coffee and breakfast.


Got to love that farm landing one. Exceptional customer service. Relatively on-time, with coffee and breakfast no less. To be sure are you talking about an Eastern pilot?
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:34 am

n2dru wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Cody wrote:

I have a giant WHISPERLINER L1011 and I wish I could figure out how to post a picture because it is a gem! The model is quite large, 1/50 scale perhaps, and sits on a Star-Trek era wooden stand. I was told this model came from Eastern's Atlanta City ticket office and was actually built in the early 1970s in Lockheed's model shop, but I cannot confirm this. I contacted PacMin and they do not think they built it as the window decals do not match the ones they used in that era.

I always wanted to get a hold of the big L1011 model hanging in the "If You Had Wings" ride in Disney World. If I remember right, it was beautiful, but had an almost animated look to it, especially when looking at the cockpit windows. Wonder what happened to it????

As for the real fleet, around 1982 some aircraft had the stripes moved below the windows in an attempt to save painting time and not having to individually mask off each window seperately. When Martin Shugrue took over, heavy emphasis was put into aesthetics and the fleet returned to the wide stripes over the windows and very bright silver fuselages.

This is strictly my opinion, but I think Eastern looked better than it ever did the day it shut down in 1991.


Cool about that 1:50 scale whisperliner L-1011. I used to have a silver one at 1:250, I believe. But the one you have is travel agent size! Nice! Never get rid of that. Awesome if was made by Lockheed. I would imagine Lockheed would gift such models to good customers, of which Eastern was. I actually liked the stripe below the window and thickened at tail section. But both were good. And the the gray-body birds (A300 and 727-100s) were interesting. Looked very corporate. And I remember that Disney ride. That was awesome and great marketing. Don't remember the L-1011 model from memory. Always wondered why Delta didn't create a ride when they first became the official airline of Walt Disney World in 1987.


Actually Delta did. The Delta Dreamflight opened in the same space used by If You Had Wings at the Magic Kingdom in 1989. The opening of the ride had you entering a 762 (the Spirit of Delta). They also had a ticket office at the Contemporary resort during that same time. The ride closed in early 1998.


Thanks for that. Will try to youtube it. I'm a bit disney-deprived. Haven't been there since '85.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:46 am

TYWoolman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
In the early ‘70s, I won a set of pencil drawings of all the Eastern planes from the Pitcairn to the TriStar by guessing the combined seniority of the flight crew. Still have them, they’re beautiful.

We had some colorful pilots, like the one that wore a parachute out to the Electra after the Braniff wing failure. Or the ORD Pilot, that landed a Martin 404 at his farm after being weathered out of ORD, took the passengers inside where he and his wife fixed them coffee and breakfast.


Got to love that farm landing one. Exceptional customer service. Relatively on-time, with coffee and breakfast no less. To be sure are you talking about an Eastern pilot?


Yeah, back in the ‘60s, as the old guys said, jets took all the fun out of flying. The fun has been taken out a couple times over since the ‘80s-regimented, watched over continually, cost driven. That was I loved about military and corporate flying, one was a pilot, not a cog in a system. Here’s your plane, this is the “mission” or trip; “it’s your baby, make it happen.” I always like the Capt Ford on PAA story after Pearl Harbor attack. Told he must return from AKL westbound, goes to library looks at an atlas and flies the plane and crew back. That’s why I got into being a pilot.

GF
 
Max Q
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:58 am

Eastern’s silver and blue livery was simply one of the finest in the industry, then and now


Never flew on them, I do remember Ernie Gann’s narrative regarding the professionalism of their pilots and in the very early, quite hazardous days of all weather airline service his opinion that if an Eastern crew couldn’t get you there no one could
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:10 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
In the early ‘70s, I won a set of pencil drawings of all the Eastern planes from the Pitcairn to the TriStar by guessing the combined seniority of the flight crew. Still have them, they’re beautiful.

We had some colorful pilots, like the one that wore a parachute out to the Electra after the Braniff wing failure. Or the ORD Pilot, that landed a Martin 404 at his farm after being weathered out of ORD, took the passengers inside where he and his wife fixed them coffee and breakfast.


Got to love that farm landing one. Exceptional customer service. Relatively on-time, with coffee and breakfast no less. To be sure are you talking about an Eastern pilot?


Yeah, back in the ‘60s, as the old guys said, jets took all the fun out of flying. The fun has been taken out a couple times over since the ‘80s-regimented, watched over continually, cost driven. That was I loved about military and corporate flying, one was a pilot, not a cog in a system. Here’s your plane, this is the “mission” or trip; “it’s your baby, make it happen.” I always like the Capt Ford on PAA story after Pearl Harbor attack. Told he must return from AKL westbound, goes to library looks at an atlas and flies the plane and crew back. That’s why I got into being a pilot.

GF


I guess automatic transmissions did to driving what jet engines did to flying. I only soloed when I was 16 and didn't persue it further, but I can feel what you're talking about. Just did a little reading on Capt Ford. Never heard that story. Remarkable. Would make an awesome movie backdrop!!
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:09 am

I miss EA. My parents and I flew from NYC to Florida several times on them during the 80’s.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
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STT757
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:24 pm

I found a cool news story discussing Eastern's new DC-10s and their plans to fly to London, Madrid and even Tokyo! It seems Miami has been chasing direct flights to Asia since 1985, Miami and Asian are a constant discussion in Anet.

https://youtu.be/fJHYCXhFP0Y

The video gives a glimpse of what the Eastern DC-10s interior was going to look like, I've never seen a photo of what they looked like in service.


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Cody
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Re: Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:12 am

STT757 wrote:
I found a cool news story discussing Eastern's new DC-10s and their plans to fly to London, Madrid and even Tokyo! It seems Miami has been chasing direct flights to Asia since 1985, Miami and Asian are a constant discussion in Anet.

https://youtu.be/fJHYCXhFP0Y

The video gives a glimpse of what the Eastern DC-10s interior was going to look like, I've never seen a photo of what they looked like in service.


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Watch the movie, "Married To The Mob."
 
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STT757
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Three Interesting Eastern Air Lines History Facts

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:55 am

There are some great Eastern DC-10 interior photos on the DC-10 appreciation group on Facebook. Having trouble posting a link, anyone help with that?

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