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NYCDM
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JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:21 am

Curious if anyone has any insider information on the long overdue T4A expansion at JFK?

Assume this pier will need to be extended before T2 can be demolished. And the new T1 can’t begin until T2 is gone.

It’s weird T4A wasn’t a part of the last big PANYNJ announcement about the JFK redevelopment. Makes me suspect that DL is negotiating this and will do a stand-alone announcement.

Any intel?
 
DL777200LR
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:32 am

Apparently around April 2020 half of the pad area where T3 was will begin construction of the new T1
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
cokepopper
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm

In the Q&A of the recent Delta investors day conference it was brought up. Ed mentions that the build out (Term 4) will be complete and Term 2 will close. But no date given.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:42 pm

cokepopper wrote:
In the Q&A of the recent Delta investors day conference it was brought up. Ed mentions that the build out (Term 4) will be complete and Term 2 will close. But no date given.


It seems they should start soon if the entire rebuild of T1 is supposed to be complete by 2025 - which can only happen if T2 is demolished.
 
ERAU1
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:02 am

Anyone have sources?
 
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spinotter
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:16 am

atlflyer wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
In the Q&A of the recent Delta investors day conference it was brought up. Ed mentions that the build out (Term 4) will be complete and Term 2 will close. But no date given.


It seems they should start soon if the entire rebuild of T1 is supposed to be complete by 2025 - which can only happen if T2 is demolished.


Do people have plans of the new T1 and where it will sit versus current T1, T2, etc.? Can they phase the buildup of the new T1 so that T2 doesn't need to be demolished immediately?
 
carljanderson
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:56 am

PANYNJ -> https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... ports.html

First one is the report, 2nd is the appendices.

Page 45 Exhibit A-18 is the full build out
 
NYCDM
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:17 am

atlflyer wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
In the Q&A of the recent Delta investors day conference it was brought up. Ed mentions that the build out (Term 4) will be complete and Term 2 will close. But no date given.


It seems they should start soon if the entire rebuild of T1 is supposed to be complete by 2025 - which can only happen if T2 is demolished.


Yep, exactly. Seems like they have to announce something soon, especially if PANYNJ start communicating specifics re: the demo of T2
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:21 am

Why doesn't Delta want their own terminal? It seems very odd for an airline with a large hub at JFK to want to share a terminal with a bunch of mismatched airlines. They have their own terminals at LGA so why not JFK?
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:34 am

NYCDM wrote:
atlflyer wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
In the Q&A of the recent Delta investors day conference it was brought up. Ed mentions that the build out (Term 4) will be complete and Term 2 will close. But no date given.


It seems they should start soon if the entire rebuild of T1 is supposed to be complete by 2025 - which can only happen if T2 is demolished.


Yep, exactly. Seems like they have to announce something soon, especially if PANYNJ start communicating specifics re: the demo of T2


And LATAM needs to move somewhere from T8. Seems like T4A needs to be completed before T2 demolition.

Also T4 will be a logistical beast for passengers, especially those connecting from T4A/B to T4B/A. With no underground connector perhaps DL will provide above ground shuttle buses. Otherwise the walk from the end of T4A to the head house and down T4B will be a PITA.
 
Bradin
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:00 am

Ugh. Another band-aid. This is ridiculous. The money could be much better spent on redesigning the entire airport into an ATL/DEN standard layout. More painful in the short term, but it will most definitely make operations much more smoother in the long run.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:42 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why doesn't Delta want their own terminal? It seems very odd for an airline with a large hub at JFK to want to share a terminal with a bunch of mismatched airlines. They have their own terminals at LGA so why not JFK?


Very much agree. Delta essentially muscled its way into T4 by paying for part of the expansion of it. T2/T3 were simply unacceptable solutions and T3 was essentially falling apart. The T4 set up improved Delta's service at JFK and allowed for expansion, but it is less than ideal. With at least 12 other airlines using T4 the security lines are often a nightmare and the concourses are often crowded. The misery that is T1 is also partially a result of a number of airlines being pushed out of T4 or having chosen to relocate there as a consequence of Delta's expansion. LATAM will also need a home at JFK as it will likely not stay at T8, which by contrast is actually JFK's best terminal in terms of flow, size, space, and layout.
 
blockski
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:54 pm

Bradin wrote:
Ugh. Another band-aid. This is ridiculous. The money could be much better spent on redesigning the entire airport into an ATL/DEN standard layout. More painful in the short term, but it will most definitely make operations much more smoother in the long run.


Except the same amount of money would only get you 1/5 of the way there. The cost of that kind of complete redevelopment would be astronomical.

Plus, JFKs traffic patterns are entirely different from ATL or DEN. Far more O/D, less connecting traffic, meaning far more need for actual terminal space (curbs, bag claims, etc) than easy domestic transfers among satellites.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:48 pm

carljanderson wrote:
PANYNJ -> https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... ports.html

First one is the report, 2nd is the appendices.

Page 45 Exhibit A-18 is the full build out


Lots of great info. Thank you for sharing.

Nice to see the T4 head house will also be expanded to accommodate the 12 new narrow body and 2 wide body gate expansion...total expansion of 469,000 square feet.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:50 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why doesn't Delta want their own terminal? It seems very odd for an airline with a large hub at JFK to want to share a terminal with a bunch of mismatched airlines. They have their own terminals at LGA so why not JFK?


Currently they have almost all of the B concourse along with their joint-venture partners. After the expansion, it appears they will also have most of the A concourse as well.

Construction will start in Q2 2020 and Delta will move into the new gates in 2023. T1 and T2 will be demolished in 2023.
 
cokepopper
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm

carljanderson wrote:
PANYNJ -> https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... ports.html

First one is the report, 2nd is the appendices.

Page 45 Exhibit A-18 is the full build out



Thanks for the info
Hopefully they don’t go with the plan where the new terminal 1 is so close to terminal 4 creating a single isle taxi for some aircraft to get in/out. The alternate plan looks better with the build out of terminal 4 towards the old 3.
 
luckyone
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:00 pm

atlflyer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Why doesn't Delta want their own terminal? It seems very odd for an airline with a large hub at JFK to want to share a terminal with a bunch of mismatched airlines. They have their own terminals at LGA so why not JFK?


Currently they have almost all of the B concourse along with their joint-venture partners. After the expansion, it appears they will also have most of the A concourse as well.

Construction will start in Q2 2020 and Delta will move into the new gates in 2023. T1 and T2 will be demolished in 2023.

Just to point out, of Delta's JV partners, Air France, Alitalia, and Korean Air use T1. KLM and VS use T4.
 
NIKV69
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:08 pm

NYCDM wrote:
until T2 is gone.



Can't come fast enough
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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tlecam
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:23 pm

United’s operation at EWR is impressive. I also think that the actual piers of terminal C are pretty nice and once the clubs are all renovated, those will be nice too.

I also love JFK T4. It’s not perfect, especially the walk to the commuter jets. But it’s bright, airy, and pretty clean. I love the outdoor deck for the Skyclub.

Terminal 2 is like going to see a broadway show at a high school gymnasium. Can’t wait for that thing to go. I am curious about how DL will manage their flights while that’s being torn down.

The future T1 - T4 connector will be nice for DL’s JV passengers.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
HunterATL
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:06 pm

tlecam wrote:
United’s operation at EWR is impressive. I also think that the actual piers of terminal C are pretty nice and once the clubs are all renovated, those will be nice too.

I also love JFK T4. It’s not perfect, especially the walk to the commuter jets. But it’s bright, airy, and pretty clean. I love the outdoor deck for the Skyclub.

Terminal 2 is like going to see a broadway show at a high school gymnasium. Can’t wait for that thing to go. I am curious about how DL will manage their flights while that’s being torn down.

The future T1 - T4 connector will be nice for DL’s JV passengers.


The Terminal 4 expansion and the construction of the southern portion of the new Terminal 1 on top of the old Terminal 3 location will begin in 2020. Once those are complete, Terminals 1 and 2 will be torn down, and the northern portion of the new Terminal 1 will begin. All of Delta's operations will be consolidated in the expanded Terminal 4 before Terminal 2 is demolished.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:02 am

carljanderson wrote:
PANYNJ -> https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... ports.html

First one is the report, 2nd is the appendices.

Page 45 Exhibit A-18 is the full build out


Thank you for posting this.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
flyinghippo
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:07 am

I think the biggest winner out of JFK's renovation (from a passenger perspective) will be Delta. Once T1 and T4 are connected, all of Delta's JV partners will be under one roof (sort of) and a lot easier to connect. AA should convince JL to move to T8 even though JL owns part of T1. The combo of T1 and T4 will be a SkyTeam fortress.

SkyTeam in T1 and T4 - KL, AF, VS (not ST but JV), CI, KE, MU can all leverage better connection to DL's operations after 2025 (assuming no delays... ) I wonder if DL will have a say in how immigration and security will be configured in the new terminal to make the connection as seamless as possible.
 
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Aisak
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:49 am

flyinghippo wrote:
AA should convince JL to move to T8 even though JL owns part of T1. The combo of T1 and T4 will be a SkyTeam fortress


T123 will be along T4 a Skyteam fortress, or better said, a Delta&friends fortress.
But given TOGA will be in charge of rebuilding T1-2-3 and LH is part of TOGA, I think there will also be a good place (The only one?) for Star carriers serving JFK. Even more if T7 closes down and T5 still does not have FIS capabilities...

AA would be quite convincing to achieve that. As you say JL is part of TOGA, owner of T1, and soon T1-2-3 or “new terminal south”.
- Right now JL does not operate any lounge but chooses which lounge contract signs to offer access for its own Premium passengers or economy passengers with OW status. If they move to T8 they will only have AA or AA to choose from.
- JL flights operate in the morning, so wide empty space at JFK. AA will have no trouble finding a place for JL, obviously at a cost. But the freed space at T1 will not immediately translate into used space, read money for TOGA and it’s shareholder JL.
- JFK could be easily furthest JL’s destination in the US, meaning most available connections (in a shrinking AA domestic network) will mean backtrack. So connections will be more, and better serviced, elsewhere than in JFK.
Those are quite a good number of reasons why JL does not desperately need to colocate under AA’s roof at JFK. But we all know alliances are colorful and cheerful. Or their marketing have made us think that, with no right to refute those ideas.
 
Subwayfan1998
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:07 am

This is Awesome, JFK Airport Terminals needs to be Demolished and this would be a likelihood of Removing the Slot restrictions in JFK Airport just like they did with Newark.

if you want sources @ERAUT, here are the Sources

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/10/4/1793702 ... renderings
 
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lightsaber
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:16 am

This is a JFK T4A thread.

Please start a new thread for EWR vs. JFK.
Winter is coming.
 
Babyshark
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:17 am

carljanderson wrote:
PANYNJ -> https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... ports.html

First one is the report, 2nd is the appendices.

Page 45 Exhibit A-18 is the full build out


Dang. One lane alleyways are in the plans between 1 and 4. But overall not a bad plan but still sucks to have new 13B terminal with "you're number 7 for the alleyway see if ground can find a place to hold you..."
 
Bradin
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:21 am

blockski wrote:
Bradin wrote:
Ugh. Another band-aid. This is ridiculous. The money could be much better spent on redesigning the entire airport into an ATL/DEN standard layout. More painful in the short term, but it will most definitely make operations much more smoother in the long run.


Except the same amount of money would only get you 1/5 of the way there. The cost of that kind of complete redevelopment would be astronomical.

Plus, JFKs traffic patterns are entirely different from ATL or DEN. Far more O/D, less connecting traffic, meaning far more need for actual terminal space (curbs, bag claims, etc) than easy domestic transfers among satellites.


Rubbish. The costs associated with complete redevelopment will be sunk no matter what. The question is always one of whether it will be sunk wisely or not, and whether the investment is short, medium, or long term.

As for bag claims, curbs, etc. - it doesn't matter what the traffic is. There is at most 150 gates at JFK.

Given how majority of the US based domestic airlines (and some international airlines too) are nickel and diming the consumer for checked bags, the demand for baggage claims are reduced. The advent of smart phones have reduced the need for counter space.
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:36 am

Subwayfan1998 wrote:
This is Awesome, JFK Airport Terminals needs to be Demolished and this would be a likelihood of Removing the Slot restrictions in JFK Airport just like they did with Newark.

if you want sources @ERAUT, here are the Sources

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/10/4/1793702 ... renderings


Sorry, but there are some terminals opened in the last decade or so that were designed for post 9/11 security, and the typical shopping and dining needs as is the "norm" nowadays. Those were a massive investment for the airlines involved, including MULTI-DECADE agreements with the PANYNJ. If you want to demolish over $3 Billion of terminal improvements, that's on you because I doubt the airlines that invested in the improvements would want to lose on their investments...
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
NYCDM
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:42 am

Subwayfan1998 wrote:
This is Awesome, JFK Airport Terminals needs to be Demolished and this would be a likelihood of Removing the Slot restrictions in JFK Airport just like they did with Newark.

if you want sources @ERAUT, here are the Sources

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/10/4/1793702 ... renderings


Appreciate this source, but it’s from October 2018. @ERAUT was asking for sources related to the T4A expansion. Fair ask IMHO
 
blockski
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:47 pm

Bradin wrote:
blockski wrote:
Bradin wrote:
Ugh. Another band-aid. This is ridiculous. The money could be much better spent on redesigning the entire airport into an ATL/DEN standard layout. More painful in the short term, but it will most definitely make operations much more smoother in the long run.


Except the same amount of money would only get you 1/5 of the way there. The cost of that kind of complete redevelopment would be astronomical.

Plus, JFKs traffic patterns are entirely different from ATL or DEN. Far more O/D, less connecting traffic, meaning far more need for actual terminal space (curbs, bag claims, etc) than easy domestic transfers among satellites.


Rubbish. The costs associated with complete redevelopment will be sunk no matter what. The question is always one of whether it will be sunk wisely or not, and whether the investment is short, medium, or long term.

As for bag claims, curbs, etc. - it doesn't matter what the traffic is. There is at most 150 gates at JFK.

Given how majority of the US based domestic airlines (and some international airlines too) are nickel and diming the consumer for checked bags, the demand for baggage claims are reduced. The advent of smart phones have reduced the need for counter space.


I’m not just talking about sunk costs; what you propose would cost 10x the current plan. If you want to say this plan is insufficient, that’s fine. But what you’re proposing is vastly more expensive.

Plus, it won’t address JFKs needs. JFK has more O/D passengers than ATL does, and way more international arrivals. Those two factors alone require a plan with more terminal space (relative to gate space).
 
Bradin
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:32 pm

blockski wrote:
Bradin wrote:
blockski wrote:

Except the same amount of money would only get you 1/5 of the way there. The cost of that kind of complete redevelopment would be astronomical.

Plus, JFKs traffic patterns are entirely different from ATL or DEN. Far more O/D, less connecting traffic, meaning far more need for actual terminal space (curbs, bag claims, etc) than easy domestic transfers among satellites.


Rubbish. The costs associated with complete redevelopment will be sunk no matter what. The question is always one of whether it will be sunk wisely or not, and whether the investment is short, medium, or long term.

As for bag claims, curbs, etc. - it doesn't matter what the traffic is. There is at most 150 gates at JFK.

Given how majority of the US based domestic airlines (and some international airlines too) are nickel and diming the consumer for checked bags, the demand for baggage claims are reduced. The advent of smart phones have reduced the need for counter space.


I’m not just talking about sunk costs; what you propose would cost 10x the current plan. If you want to say this plan is insufficient, that’s fine. But what you’re proposing is vastly more expensive.

Plus, it won’t address JFKs needs. JFK has more O/D passengers than ATL does, and way more international arrivals. Those two factors alone require a plan with more terminal space (relative to gate space).


We pay that cost one way or another. While it may not be a direct cost in terms of building, there are indirect costs through long queue times waiting to get to the runways, or massive traffic jams. 10x the cost is a gross overstatement, oversimplification and exaggeration.

If we look at the data, we can look at a major US airport that has far less space to work with: LAX. LAX has 11 million more passengers going through its airport - representing about 30% more traffic.

In 2017, LAX has roughly 80% O&D traffic (according to LAWA). According to the Port Authority, O&D makes up 35% of all JFK traffic in that same year. (Fun Fact: EWR had more O&D traffic in 2017 than JFK.)

In 2018, JFK served 14,028,596 Domestic Passengers, and 16,561,657 International Passengers for a total of 30,590,253 passengers on roughly 4,930 acres of land
In 2018, LAX served 30,009,010 Domestic Passengers, and 12,699,381 International Passengers for a total of 42,708,391 passengers on roughly 3,500 acres of land.

While JFK serves 4 million more international passengers, LAX serves double domestic travelers. If we assume for the moment that passenger behaviors are similar because they both serve major metropolitan cities, the need for counter space, and baggage claims would be far greater at LAX due to its sheer volume of passengers.

Even if we were to assume the majority of domestic passengers bring their bags as carry on bags, there is a statistically high probability that the overhead bins would be full on majority of flights given the number of passengers traveling to and from LAX, and that a significant number of bags would have to be gate checked in.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:25 pm

Bradin wrote:
In 2018, JFK served 14,028,596 Domestic Passengers, and 16,561,657 International Passengers for a total of 30,590,253 passengers on roughly 4,930 acres of land
In 2018, LAX served 30,009,010 Domestic Passengers, and 12,699,381 International Passengers for a total of 42,708,391 passengers on roughly 3,500 acres of land.

You're confusing enplanements with total passengers.

Double the figures you provided, to get the approximate pax count.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
trueblew
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:55 pm

Aisak wrote:
flyinghippo wrote:
AA should convince JL to move to T8 even though JL owns part of T1. The combo of T1 and T4 will be a SkyTeam fortress


T123 will be along T4 a Skyteam fortress, or better said, a Delta&friends fortress.
But given TOGA will be in charge of rebuilding T1-2-3 and LH is part of TOGA, I think there will also be a good place (The only one?) for Star carriers serving JFK. Even more if T7 closes down and T5 still does not have FIS capabilities...


T5 does have FIS, albeit not currently 24h/day.
 
Bradin
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:04 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Bradin wrote:
In 2018, JFK served 14,028,596 Domestic Passengers, and 16,561,657 International Passengers for a total of 30,590,253 passengers on roughly 4,930 acres of land
In 2018, LAX served 30,009,010 Domestic Passengers, and 12,699,381 International Passengers for a total of 42,708,391 passengers on roughly 3,500 acres of land.

You're confusing enplanements with total passengers.

Double the figures you provided, to get the approximate pax count.


I am merely citing the data from the Department of Transportation via the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and am using their definitions.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=1
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:04 pm

Bradin wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Bradin wrote:
In 2018, JFK served 14,028,596 Domestic Passengers, and 16,561,657 International Passengers for a total of 30,590,253 passengers on roughly 4,930 acres of land
In 2018, LAX served 30,009,010 Domestic Passengers, and 12,699,381 International Passengers for a total of 42,708,391 passengers on roughly 3,500 acres of land.

You're confusing enplanements with total passengers.

Double the figures you provided, to get the approximate pax count.

I am merely citing the data from the Department of Transportation via the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and am using their definitions.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=1

I'm not saying that the data are incorrect... I'm saying that your understanding of them as presented, is.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
NYCDM
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:12 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
carljanderson wrote:
PANYNJ -> https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... ports.html

First one is the report, 2nd is the appendices.

Page 45 Exhibit A-18 is the full build out


Thank you for posting this.


Agree. Thanks - super helpful!
 
Bradin
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:30 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Bradin wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
You're confusing enplanements with total passengers.

Double the figures you provided, to get the approximate pax count.

I am merely citing the data from the Department of Transportation via the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and am using their definitions.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=1

I'm not saying that the data are incorrect... I'm saying that your understanding of them as presented, is.


Regardless of how one interprets the data, my point still stands: It's very much possible to do a lot in a very little space.

Plus it's quite possible to get everything operational in a finite time if engineered correctly.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:07 pm

Lots of updated info about the entire JFK redevelopment in this presentation:

https://www.anewjfk.com/wp-content/uplo ... erview.pdf
 
FoxBravo
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:16 pm

LATAM announced today that they are moving from T8 to T4 on February 1, which is great for connectivity with Delta. I'm assuming that means other airlines will need to swap places with them--curious if anyone knows which ones.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:28 pm

Now T8 will be a real
ghost town and T4 will really be bursting at the seams.

Latam has a substantial operation at JFK
 
FoxBravo
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:53 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Now T8 will be a real
ghost town and T4 will really be bursting at the seams.

Latam has a substantial operation at JFK


Exactly--that's why I'm thinking one or more airlines must be moving the other way. China Southern and El Al, for example, codeshare with AA, and Air Europa is being acquired by IAG and leaving SkyTeam. Total speculation on my part though.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:54 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Now T8 will be a real
ghost town and T4 will really be bursting at the seams.

Latam has a substantial operation at JFK

Remember, Terminal 8 still needs to be expanded before Terminal 1 can be demolished. I think Terminal 1 will stay for at least another ten years.

T8 has a bright future ahead of it.
 
HunterATL
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:13 am

blacksoviet wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Now T8 will be a real
ghost town and T4 will really be bursting at the seams.

Latam has a substantial operation at JFK

Remember, Terminal 8 still needs to be expanded before Terminal 1 can be demolished. I think Terminal 1 will stay for at least another ten years.

T8 has a bright future ahead of it.


Terminal 1 has nothing to do with Terminal 8. Terminal 8 must be "expanded" by adding 2 gates and a few hard stands and reconfiguring some gates. At the same time, the first part of Terminal 6 will be under construction. When the work on 8 is done, including the internal work, BA will move over. Then Terminal 7 will be torn down to finish the construction of Terminal 6. This will all happen in only a few years.
 
402679
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:23 am

I've just gotten an email from Latam.


From February 1st Latam will move to Terminal 4 and will be using Delta' Skyclub.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:17 am

HunterATL wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Now T8 will be a real
ghost town and T4 will really be bursting at the seams.

Latam has a substantial operation at JFK

Remember, Terminal 8 still needs to be expanded before Terminal 1 can be demolished. I think Terminal 1 will stay for at least another ten years.

T8 has a bright future ahead of it.


Terminal 1 has nothing to do with Terminal 8. Terminal 8 must be "expanded" by adding 2 gates and a few hard stands and reconfiguring some gates. At the same time, the first part of Terminal 6 will be under construction. When the work on 8 is done, including the internal work, BA will move over. Then Terminal 7 will be torn down to finish the construction of Terminal 6. This will all happen in only a few years.

Yes but Terminal 8 will need to be expanded again before Terminal 1 can be demolished. There will not be enough room in Terminal 6 for all the airlines in Terminal 1. Terminal 1 has ten gates.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:23 am

blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Remember, Terminal 8 still needs to be expanded before Terminal 1 can be demolished. I think Terminal 1 will stay for at least another ten years.

T8 has a bright future ahead of it.


Terminal 1 has nothing to do with Terminal 8. Terminal 8 must be "expanded" by adding 2 gates and a few hard stands and reconfiguring some gates. At the same time, the first part of Terminal 6 will be under construction. When the work on 8 is done, including the internal work, BA will move over. Then Terminal 7 will be torn down to finish the construction of Terminal 6. This will all happen in only a few years.

Yes but Terminal 8 will need to be expanded again before Terminal 1 can be demolished. There will not be enough room in Terminal 6 for all the airlines in Terminal 1. Terminal 1 has ten gates.


According to the above slides, the first phase of the new T1 (with 11 gates) will open in 2023 before the old T1 is demolished. The T4A expansion will open around the same time, allowing T2 to be demolished. Then the rest of the new T1 will be built out.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:25 am

blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Remember, Terminal 8 still needs to be expanded before Terminal 1 can be demolished. I think Terminal 1 will stay for at least another ten years.

T8 has a bright future ahead of it.


Terminal 1 has nothing to do with Terminal 8. Terminal 8 must be "expanded" by adding 2 gates and a few hard stands and reconfiguring some gates. At the same time, the first part of Terminal 6 will be under construction. When the work on 8 is done, including the internal work, BA will move over. Then Terminal 7 will be torn down to finish the construction of Terminal 6. This will all happen in only a few years.

Yes but Terminal 8 will need to be expanded again before Terminal 1 can be demolished. There will not be enough room in Terminal 6 for all the airlines in Terminal 1. Terminal 1 has ten gates.

I thought the plan was to join 4 and 2 with 1 and treat delta friends plus cats and dogs, with 8 being Oneworld and 5 being JetBlue and friends, then 7 is knocked down, right?
 
HunterATL
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:01 am

blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Remember, Terminal 8 still needs to be expanded before Terminal 1 can be demolished. I think Terminal 1 will stay for at least another ten years.

T8 has a bright future ahead of it.


Terminal 1 has nothing to do with Terminal 8. Terminal 8 must be "expanded" by adding 2 gates and a few hard stands and reconfiguring some gates. At the same time, the first part of Terminal 6 will be under construction. When the work on 8 is done, including the internal work, BA will move over. Then Terminal 7 will be torn down to finish the construction of Terminal 6. This will all happen in only a few years.

Yes but Terminal 8 will need to be expanded again before Terminal 1 can be demolished. There will not be enough room in Terminal 6 for all the airlines in Terminal 1. Terminal 1 has ten gates.


No. The new Terminal 1 is being build in 3 phases. The first part will be built on top of the old Terminal 3 site and will have 11 gates. Then the second phase will be built on top of Terminal 2 with 3 gates. Then the last portion of the new Terminal 1 will be built on top of the old Terminal 1. There is no connection between Terminals 1 and 8 in the construction process.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3350
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:08 am

atlflyer wrote:
Lots of updated info about the entire JFK redevelopment in this presentation:

https://www.anewjfk.com/wp-content/uplo ... erview.pdf


So is the first floor of the GTC for Customs? What does it mean when it states "arrivals"? Top floor a park?
 
HunterATL
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:27 am

william wrote:
atlflyer wrote:
Lots of updated info about the entire JFK redevelopment in this presentation:

https://www.anewjfk.com/wp-content/uplo ... erview.pdf


So is the first floor of the GTC for Customs? What does it mean when it states "arrivals"? Top floor a park?


No. That refers to ground vehicle arrivals at the facility.

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